Senna Vs Schumacher. Once and for all. Who was better?

wellyhead

There has been alot of talk over the years about these two titans of F1. Lets think about it for a moment and make the right call on who was the all time best and why?

BoardsRanger

Well heres a can of worms opened. Id say theres gonna be some strong opinions about this one. I voted for Michael- i just think he was the all-round better driver. And obviously championships wise, was far superior but then again senna could have had more but for his death.

cnocbui

Schumacher is a highly skilled driver, Alan Jones was right when he said Senna was a danger to other drivers.

FrostyJack

cnocbui wrote: »

Schumacher is a highly skilled driver, Alan Jones was right when he said Senna was a danger to other drivers.

There are plenty of drivers that would say the same about Schu at times but in most of his major battles the Mika, Alonso etc they would say he was hard but fair. Schumacher FTW.

artie ziff

SENNA

best driver i have seen in my whole life. i have a vague memory from my childhood of watching senna taking a chequered flag closely followed by prost then piquet then mansell.... i might have that all over the place but my point is that racing was more competitive until the mid 90's.

that said, most people will probably vote for schumacher whether or not they have ever seen senna race. personally, despite his great talent, i think he was a cheat (hill/hakinnen/villeneuve incidents) and i hope that he will not be regarded as the greatest of all time.

amacachi

Senna was probably the faster driver on a lap or two, but overall I'd have to go with Schumacher. He's made plenty of mistakes but he held up when under tremendous pressure more often.

vectra

cnocbui wrote: »

Alan Jones was right when he said Senna was a danger to other drivers.

So that is why Hamilton thniks he is like Senna

sbEdge

Great thread. I vote for Schumacher. I recently read Eddie Jordan's autobiography and he told how Senna was winning all the races in F3000 one year but Eddie Jordan started rumours about the Jordan F3000 team having a massive development coming up and how they would beat Senna easily. Martin Brundle in the Jordan destroyed Senna in the next race and the rumours about the development were rubbish, there was no development. Schumacher would not have been affected by such mind games. Schumacher was beating Senna well in the '94 championship too before Imola.

tommmy1979

This post is ridiculous!!! You cannot compare F1 of today with F1 of 15 or 20 years ago and beyond. I stopped watching F1 when Mansell went to indy.. went downhill fast after that. For example, the mcklaren senna was driving against mansells williams had a manual gearbox!! yes a manual gearbox!! and no driver aids!.. modern F1 drivers, schumacher included are little more than machine operators. pahhh...

T

mikemac

Formula 3, F3000 is something different and I don't think it even existed at that time

tommmy1979

:eek:I think this settles it!!

Cklip of Senna handing Mansell, Prost and Schumacher their asses on a plate!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRS-ZjXrLfw&NR=1

T

amacachi

tommmy1979 wrote: »

modern F1 drivers, schumacher included are little more than machine operators. pahhh...

:rolleyes:

Look up Richard Hammond trying to drive a Renault F1 car. I'm gonna guess all the Indy 500 drivers just put their foot down full and turn left? No skill eh?

amacachi

tommmy1979 wrote: »

:eek:I think this settles it!!

Cklip of Senna handing Mansell, Prost and Schumacher their asses on a plate!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRS-ZjXrLfw&NR=1

T

Really? A single race? Look at how Mansell handed people's arses to them throughout the years. Look up Prost handing Senna his arse to him in the deciding race in the championship. And of course Senna doing it to him.


Tbh to boil it down to Schumacher and Senna is ridiculous and highly disrespectful to drivers like Prost, Piquet and I might get slated for this one, Mansell.

tommmy1979

amacachi wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Look up Richard Hammond trying to drive a Renault F1 car. I'm gonna guess all the Indy 500 drivers just put their foot down full and turn left? No skill eh?

Alright... slight exageration :P..

tommmy1979

amacachi wrote: »

Really? A single race? Look at how Mansell handed people's arses to them throughout the years. Look up Prost handing Senna his arse to him in the deciding race in the championship. And of course Senna doing it to him.


Tbh to boil it down to Schumacher and Senna is ridiculous and highly disrespectful to drivers like Prost, Piquet and I might get slated for this one, Mansell.

Mansell was actually my personal favourite

bladespin

Heart says Senna (my childhood hero) but my brian says Schumacher

amacachi

tommmy1979 wrote: »

Mansell was actually my personal favourite

Just looking up old races over the last year or so and I can't believe what I saw from Mansell. Truth be told I'd forgotten he ever won the title, probably because for most of my life Hill was the last British champ.


As I said, for outright speed over a very short time I don't think anyone could keep up with Senna, but overall it had to be Schumacher.

easyni

if schumacher was a cheat he would have been punishes!
He is by a country mile the best driver. Records will prove that.......

Kintarō Hattori

It's impossible to say who was the greatest driver, so why even bother?

I have to say though I remember being immensely impressed watching Schumacher one year racing in Brazil. He started from the back of the grid in terrible terrible conditions and worked his way up to a podium finish. Incredible viewing.

amacachi

easyni wrote: »

if schumacher was a cheat he would have been punishes!
He is by a country mile the best driver. Records will prove that.......

Ya can prove anything with statistics, 8 out of 10 people know that.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

It's impossible to say who was the greatest driver, so why even bother?

I have to say though I remember being immensely impressed watching Schumacher one year racing in Brazil. He started from the back of the grid in terrible terrible conditions and worked his way up to a podium finish. Incredible viewing.

Belgium one year he started 16th and won in the rain. Hill did well going from 8th to second I think. Hmm, think I'll go check what year it was and try and watch it.

jacool

I voted for Senna because he was human, emotional and got me watching a sport that is really a dull few hours, seventeen times a year. He took chances and made it exciting, whereas Schumacher was like a robot, albeit a very successful one. I don't watch anymore because I would probably miss the 3 overtaking manouevres while in the jacks or making tea.
I still recall hearing of Senna's death and being moved by it.

amacachi

jacool wrote: »

I voted for Senna because he was human, emotional and got me watching a sport that is really a dull few hours, seventeen times a year. He took chances and made it exciting, whereas Schumacher was like a robot, albeit a very successful one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOQjYCwgLdE

Robot?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7w5dGgLWQo

Again, lot of crying from a robot. Turning in on Hill was taking a pretty big chance, still don't know how he wasn't disqualified.

Scober11

Eh there seems to be nowhere to vote for Coultard:D

Mental Mickey

TBH, there can't really be a definitive answer to this one, cos they didn't really compete together for long enough.......?

tifosi 1

You can't compare drivers from different era's. One thing I have noticed that to win a lot in F1 you need to be a bit of an asshole. Schumacher, Senna, Alonso, Piquet, Villenuve, Stewart(not so much in his carear but definitly now) all have done things on track or of it that wasn't fair or sporting. All the mild mannered guys apart from Prost don't seem to win a lot of championships(Hill, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Mansell, Rosberg and Jones). As always there are exceptions to every rule.

Trippie

bladespin wrote: »

Heart says Senna (my childhood hero) but my brian says Schumacher

brian must be special then if he can change whats in your heart

mrmac

amacachi - Ya can prove anything with statistics, 8 out of 10 people know that. (nice, lol!)

Schuey has entertained, amused and appalled me at various stages during his career - but the guy was a great driver!

amacachi

mrmac wrote: »

amacachi - Ya can prove anything with statistics, 8 out of 10 people know that. (nice, lol!)

Schuey has entertained, amused and appalled me at various stages during his career - but the guy was a great driver!

I stole it from The Simpsons, I can't take credit for it alas. :P

Running Bing

cnocbui wrote: »

Schumacher is a highly skilled driver, Alan Jones was right when he said Senna was a danger to other drivers.

lol...I read this post just as I'm watching Schumacher crash into Hill in 94:D


Your post is pure bollox btw..."Schumacher is a highly skilled driver.....Senna was a danger". So Senna was'nt highly skilled?:rolleyes:


Senna was the better driver imo. Schumacher was the better winner.

Running Bing

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Well the simple answer is Jim Clark!

pfft Fangio ftw.

Running Bing

easyni wrote: »

if schumacher was a cheat he would have been punishes!
He is by a country mile the best driver. Records will prove that.......

The sport did exist before the 90's you know:rolleyes:

De Hipster

I voted Senna mainly because the man died in his prime & was not even showing signs of retirement.

I did subsequently become a Shumacher fan & think he is an immense talent.

It's a crying shame these two never got a good chance to go head-to-head, would have made spectacular viewing!

shamwari

What about Prost?

Between him and Senna, if you were to take one away, the other would have set records that even Schumacher would've had trouble matching.

BoardsRanger

It might be an idea to rename the thread to "who is your favourite driver: senna or schumacher?"

Dcully

easyni wrote: »

if schumacher was a cheat he would have been punishes!
He is by a country mile the best driver. Records will prove that.......

He was a cheat,he ran Hill off the track in Adelaide in 94,he knew hill would of won the title so he just rammed him off the track.
He done the same in the last race of the 97 season when he deliberately tried to take Villeneuve out at Jerez.

Both these occasions he knew the other driver only had to finish the race to win the title,far too often when he was a beaten man he would turn into a cheat.
I didnt even mention him parking his car on the track in Monaco ffs.

You say records will prove Shcumi is a better driver, Senna was in his prime when he died therefore records mean nothing to a real F1 fan.
Schumi was awesome, he really was an exceptional talent and very very close to Senna.
We were robbed of some incredible racing between the two when Senna died.

SouperComputer

Senna for me. IMO the grid in competed in was much more competitive than Schumacher was in. At any given time Senna raced against multiple, highly successful champions, Schumacher, for the most part did not.

You may argue that you cannot compare generations, but many drivers are judged by their teammates. This is where Senna clearly is ahead. He actively sought the team that Prost was on, joined the team and challenged him. Schumacher wimped out on this end.

Neither of them were particularly sporting, but I would put Senna ahead in this regard, almost every stunt Schumacher pulled was to make up for mistakes he made (adelade 94 for example). Senna was screwed out of Pole at Suzuka, there is a difference there.

Dempsey

Senna without a doubt

Schumacher was a great driver but he had a far better machine than all of the grid plus all the driver aids at the time was ridiculous, Senna had to do alot more actual driving in his car than what Schumacher had to do in his Ferrari

I refer to Schumacher's Ferrari days as that how he made himself into a great

shamwari

SouperComputer wrote: »

Senna for me. IMO the grid in competed in was much more competitive than Schumacher was in. At any given time Senna raced against multiple, highly successful champions, Schumacher, for the most part did not.

You may argue that you cannot compare generations, but many drivers are judged by their teammates. This is where Senna clearly is ahead. He actively sought the team that Prost was on, joined the team and challenged him. Schumacher wimped out on this end.

Neither of them were particularly sporting, but I would put Senna ahead in this regard, almost every stunt Schumacher pulled was to make up for mistakes he made (adelade 94 for example). Senna was screwed out of Pole at Suzuka, there is a difference there.

Senna took pole in Suzuka. He was passed by Prost at the start only to be rammed by Senna when he used the Ferrari's rear as his brake. Senna even admitted to this the following year. The sport is dangerous enough without drivers playing stock cars at 200mph. This sort of thing was never heard of among the Lauda's, Stewarts, Clarks and Fittipaldis of this world. Great drivers, be they Senna, Schumacher or whoever, do not need to resort to such disgraceful behaviour.

smooch71

amacachi wrote: »

Belgium one year he started 16th and won in the rain. Hill did well going from 8th to second I think. Hmm, think I'll go check what year it was and try and watch it.

Unless I'm very much mistaken that was 1994..... I AM VERY MUCH MISTAKEN IT WAS 1995.


But seriously, it was 1995

smooch71

Dcully wrote: »

We were robbed of some incredible racing between the two when Senna died.

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that. I think Senna was rattled by Schumacher in the first few races of 1994. I suspect Senna knew his era was coming to a close and would have retired within a year or two rather than be overshadowed by this young German upstart.

People tend to have a romantic notion about what F1 would have been like with Senna and S'macher racing together but I don't think it was ever going to happen.

Dcully

smooch71 wrote: »

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that. I think Senna was rattled by Schumacher in the first few races of 1994. I suspect Senna knew his era was coming to a close and would have retired within a year or two rather than be overshadowed by this young German upstart.

People tend to have a romantic notion about what F1 would have been like with Senna and S'macher racing together but I don't think it was ever going to happen.

I guess we will never know but to suggest Senna was coming to the end of his F1 career is simply not true.
There was every chance we would have got to see them duke it out.

De Hipster

smooch71 wrote: »

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that. I think Senna was rattled by Schumacher in the first few races of 1994. I suspect Senna knew his era was coming to a close and would have retired within a year or two rather than be overshadowed by this young German upstart.

People tend to have a romantic notion about what F1 would have been like with Senna and S'macher racing together but I don't think it was ever going to happen.

Opinion v's opinion really.

SouperComputer

shamwari wrote: »

Senna took pole in Suzuka. He was passed by Prost at the start only to be rammed by Senna when he used the Ferrari's rear as his brake. Senna even admitted to this the following year. The sport is dangerous enough without drivers playing stock cars at 200mph. This sort of thing was never heard of among the Lauda's, Stewarts, Clarks and Fittipaldis of this world. Great drivers, be they Senna, Schumacher or whoever, do not need to resort to such disgraceful behaviour.

Nope, he qualified first, he did not take pole per-se, thats what the controversy was about, and ultimately they went off. Pole was switched for that race and Senna started on the dirty side of the track, defeated the purpose of getting first in qualifiying. Prost knew Senna's intentions, they both rolled the dice and it fell in Senna's favour that year. Yes, far from sporting, but theres more to it than Senna just smacking Prost off the track to take the championship.

One of the reasons you didnt see such behavior from "Lauda's, Stewarts, Clarks and Fittipaldis" is simple, racing was wildy more fatal when racing than in Senna's era, even for Fittipaldi.

G-Money

This is an easy one for me, I don't even have to think about it. My favourite driver was and always will be, Senna. Schumacher was a great champion and a great driver. He's had many pole positions, fastest laps, wins, championships etc.

Having said all that, for me, Senna is the best.

T-Maxx

Prost FTW

Mike Litoris

I'd say Senna by a gee hair. Both were very dirty drivers no doubt and were either loved or hated. I was always amazed by their talent but hated them for, lets call it, needlessly not playing fair. Schumacher was more intelligent but Senna had more raw driving talent.

wuzzik

jacool wrote: »

I voted for Senna because he was human, emotional and got me watching a sport that is really a dull few hours, seventeen times a year. He took chances and made it exciting, whereas Schumacher was like a robot, albeit a very successful one. I don't watch anymore because I would probably miss the 3 overtaking manouevres while in the jacks or making tea.
I still recall hearing of Senna's death and being moved by it.

Senna all the way. The right mix of agression and talent and skill!

Did someone say Mansell? He was a cheat.
I remember him leaving the pits with 3 wheels. Must have thought they would let him get away with that!:rolleyes:

Mike Litoris

Scober11 wrote: »

Eh there seems to be nowhere to vote for Coultard:D

Hehe.

Either way, all time best driver for me is Clarke. Favourite driver was Ronnie Peterson.