slatted tanks/farm buildings

marko3

With now probably being the best time to start buildings maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread on prices and contact numbers so that the best possible deal can be done. i personally am looking for a 44footx 14'6 x 9foot deep tank and slats everything included

ravima

are you insane?

You have missed the grant scheme and with the profits from farming, how do you expect to repay a loan for the shed? If you have the cash, fair play to you, but there are countless other options to get a better return on your funds. Thats my tuppence or 2.5cents worth

reilig

marko3 wrote: »

With now probably being the best time to start buildings maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread on prices and contact numbers so that the best possible deal can be done. i personally am looking for a 44footx 14'6 x 9foot deep tank and slats everything included

Firstly I don't think you are insane.

I know a good few people who have waited until now to build their tanks and sheds. There are various reasons - some people were not eligable for a grant because they did not have enough stock. Others didn't have their tax affairs in order and couldn't apply for the grant. And some people just need a shed right now and have to build.

The tank your building looks like having 2 16ft pens (if you're roofing it?) with 6ft allowed on each side for walls and agitating area. Sure let us know how you plan to build it.

I'll tell you what I did with the grant and tell you where I see savings that youi can make.

My tank is 52 foot long, 8 foot deep (standard for shuttering pans) and I have 14ft 6" slats on it. Tank Cost €25k plus VAT. Slats were €8k. Tank has a double row of steel. A single row of steel would be enough (or else a double row with more spacings. My contractor recons that the tank would be fine with 40% less steel if it wasn't a requirement for the grant). I bet if you price around you will get your tank poured for €15k. You will buy your slats for €4k. Many slat manufacturers have stockplies of slats from the grant era and will be only too happy to get rid of them at a reduced price.

My shed is a 3 bay double (one side is creep area and covered crush - other side is slats). Guy that puts them up recons he could have put it up for 40% less if it wasn't for the grant. He recons that the regulations for steel thickness, stamped sheets etc etc were way over the required level. My 3 bay double shed with doors barriers, gates, crush etc cost €35k. If you were just putting up a shed to cover your tank, I'll guarantee that you will have it for €15k inc barriers and gates. (Steel has come down in price and there is huge competition for steel shed manufacturers and erectors in the current climate.) Add a few €k for walls, plumbing, electricity, digging out and backfilling - you'll have your shed well under €40k.

Would you have saved money by getting the grant? Its debateable. One thing for sure, you'd still have a loan to cover the grant that you didn't receive yet. You can design your shed any way you like - don't have to stick to Dep of Ag guidelines. You won't be waiting long for a contractor and now won't bet receiveing inflated quotes. And most importantly, you can shop around and bargain. Right now contractors will do things at cost just to keep themselves in work.

leg wax

i dont think your insane either.i built a 30foot tank 8feet deep 14.6 slat in front of a cubicle house. i built the tank with 1800 six inch blocks ,two coats of plaster and a coat of black sealent for silage pits,all this for a fraction of mass concrete,i got a quote for roof 30 x 30 7500e erected 5000 dropped in bought steel timber sheeting everything just under 3000e .the tank looks the same-works thesame as any fancey tank with grants.roof does the job it was put up for,but is noticable.

Turbury

marko3 wrote: »

With now probably being the best time to start buildings maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread on prices and contact numbers so that the best possible deal can be done. i personally am looking for a 44footx 14'6 x 9foot deep tank and slats everything included

One bit of advice - if you're designing your own tank - dont skimp on the steel, strange as it may sound the steel in the tank is almost more important than the concrete - remember this is a job you only want to do once, finding a cracked tank later down the line will be a complete disaster and cost you much more in the long run, I would build the tank to current specs, in theory it might seem OTT but better safe than sorry.

fastrac

Strong rumours that the vat refund for non registered farmers will go in the mini budget wont help much.

reilig

fastrac wrote: »

Strong rumours that the vat refund for non registered farmers will go in the mini budget wont help much.

I have to say that rumour is unfounded. Vat returns to non registered farmers isn't just some perk to the system introduced to help farmers or give them extra money. There is a purpose to it and a reason why the facilities for non registered farmers to claim back vat was put in place.

As far as I can understand about VAT (and I'm open to correction)

A farmer can choose to register or not for VAT.

If he registers for vat he can claim vat back on all purchases, but he must charge VAT on all sales (ie. on animal or crop sales etc)

If he doesn't register for VAT, he doesn't have to charge VAT on sales but he is allowed to claim vat back construction of permanent fixtures, fencing, drainage etc. But he has to pay vat on machinery, fuel, etc.

Revenue gains more income and has no paper trail by having VAT set up for farmers in this way. Why would they remove the VAT refund. Farmers would just register for vat and create a whole paper trail that would take hundreds of extra staff to follow for no extra revenue.

fastrac

I hope your right .

Bitten & Hisses

reilig wrote: »

As far as I can understand about VAT (and I'm open to correction)

A farmer can choose to register or not for VAT.

If he registers for vat he can claim vat back on all purchases, but he must charge VAT on all sales (ie. on animal or crop sales etc)

If he doesn't register for VAT, he doesn't have to charge VAT on sales but he is allowed to claim vat back construction of permanent fixtures, fencing, drainage etc. But he has to pay vat on machinery, fuel, etc.

Revenue gains more income and has no paper trail by having VAT set up for farmers in this way. Why would they remove the VAT refund. Farmers would just register for vat and create a whole paper trail that would take hundreds of extra staff to follow for no extra revenue.

I agree completely that Revenue would be shooting themselves in the foot by removing the unregistered VAT refund. Just to clarify on your other points:

If you register for VAT, you then have to pay the Revenue crowd the approx 5% VAT which is "included" in the sales price of your animals/milk/crops. You can then claim back VAT on all your business expenses.
In theory, if you're unregistered, you claim for buildings, etc and the 5% imaginary vat you get back in your sales compensates you for the VAT you pay on other outgoings.

The 5% approx VAT you get on your sales has always annoyed me. If they abolished this tomorrow morning, I have no doubt that cattle prices in the ring would not change. Milk prices probably would, not sure about grain.

marko3

well i initally was planning on having a tank with slats on at the end of my cubicles then have a canopy over it with feeding barriers and then an auto matic scraper. my second idea was converting a open slurry tank. this has all the tank in so would just need a wall in the middle, slats and and passage floor. thought i might mention i saw 4 400foot sheds built for a dealer near me. the amount of cattle in it is unimaginable

irish_bob

ravima wrote: »

are you insane?

You have missed the grant scheme and with the profits from farming, how do you expect to repay a loan for the shed? If you have the cash, fair play to you, but there are countless other options to get a better return on your funds. Thats my tuppence or 2.5cents worth

it is you who are crackers , the price of steel has collapsed and more importantly the cost of labour has fallen through the floor

last yeat it was costing at least 3000 per cubicle to build a dairy cow shed such was the high price of steel and the added fact that builders were jacking up the price safe in the knowledge that the farmer was getting a 60% grant and in some cases 70%

you would easily build a cow shed for 1000 euro a cubicle this year
my brother built a new shed last year , finished it the day before xmas eve , he is ripping that the dept did not come out and say what they had planned , he would gladly have waited untill this year

there were cute hoors out there this past few years during the grant scheme who were coming out with lines like , ah , ill build it cheaper when the grant scheme is over , they thought they were right at the time , they know they are right now

snowman707

Turbury wrote: »

One bit of advice - if you're designing your own tank - dont skimp on the steel, strange as it may sound the steel in the tank is almost more important than the concrete - remember this is a job you only want to do once, finding a cracked tank later down the line will be a complete disaster and cost you much more in the long run, I would build the tank to current specs, in theory it might seem OTT but better safe than sorry.

+1

especially on poor ground,

also be careful buying slats, heard of terrible reports with non certified slats.

locky76

no offence legwax but i think anyone would be mad to build a tank for a slatted shed with blocks, you jeopardise everything over a tank by scrimping on the tank itself, mass concrete is used widespread for a reason, i just don't believe that you get as structurally as sound a tank with blocks no matter how many coats of plaster and paint you use. by the time you've the blocklayer and platerers paid i don't think the savings would amount to much! as i said at the begining no offence meant, just my honest thoughts.

leg wax wrote: »

i dont think your insane either.i built a 30foot tank 8feet deep 14.6 slat in front of a cubicle house. i built the tank with 1800 six inch blocks ,two coats of plaster and a coat of black sealent for silage pits,all this for a fraction of mass concrete,i got a quote for roof 30 x 30 7500e erected 5000 dropped in bought steel timber sheeting everything just under 3000e .the tank looks the same-works thesame as any fancey tank with grants.roof does the job it was put up for,but is noticable.

leg wax

locky76 wrote: »

no offence legwax but i think anyone would be mad to build a tank for a slatted shed with blocks, you jeopardise everything over a tank by scrimping on the tank itself, mass concrete is used widespread for a reason, i just don't believe that you get as structurally as sound a tank with blocks no matter how many coats of plaster and paint you use. by the time you've the blocklayer and platerers paid i don't think the savings would amount to much! as i said at the begining no offence meant, just my honest thoughts.

i know of a number of tanks built this way down south. as cost wise i laid blocks and plastered my self and one man ,we were slow laying blocks took 7 days if we had paid block layer it was going to cost 2200e,plastered it in 5 days never got quote for plastering.my cows **** does not mind if it falls into a tank made from blocks.back in medieval times buildings were put up with stones no cement under ground and above ground the secret was good solid ground[before anyone says it i know they were not storeing slurry or liquids] and these buildings are still standing. if some one told farmers that they could store slurry in a plastic slurry tank 15 years ago they would have laughed,timber framed houses v concrete block houses one cheaper and faster to put up,its taken a long time to get going in this country.have a neighbour who built a tank by digging out the walls first poured the concrete,then when set he dug out the tank in side then poured the floor of the tank,he had the soil and subsoil to do it he had no back filling a huge saving,i will always remember a other neibhours comment [the walls are very rough] my cows **** wont mind was the reply.and no offence taken locky by the way,it works for me and am doing another tank this year,saveings are big,sorry for jumping off the topic a little;)

Sam Kade

leg wax wrote: »

i dont think your insane either.i built a 30foot tank 8feet deep 14.6 slat in front of a cubicle house. i built the tank with 1800 six inch blocks ,two coats of plaster and a coat of black sealent for silage pits,all this for a fraction of mass concrete,i got a quote for roof 30 x 30 7500e erected 5000 dropped in bought steel timber sheeting everything just under 3000e .the tank looks the same-works thesame as any fancey tank with grants.roof does the job it was put up for,but is noticable.

I presume you put a second row of blocks on edge to make the wall 15" wide as you used 1800 blocks? With a single row of blocks 5' is the deepest you can go. What did your 30' tank incl slats cost?

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

have a neighbour who built a tank by digging out the walls first poured the concrete,then when set he dug out the tank in side then poured the floor of the tank,he had the soil and subsoil to do it he had no back filling a huge saving,;)

How on earth did he get it water tight? Would the water in the slurry not flow out between the floor and side wall if there was no continuous joint reinforced with steel? I certainly wouldn't risk putting a couple of €k of concrete in the ground like that - with no guarantee that it would work.

I've heard of reinforced concrete tanks cracking and losing the water from them - surely this would be a recipe for disaster for your neighbour?

leg wax

Sam Kade wrote: »

I presume you put a second row of blocks on edge to make the wall 15" wide as you used 1800 blocks? With a single row of blocks 5' is the deepest you can go. What did your 30' tank incl slats cost?

i will try and answer your questions 2 years after building it, 88-90 blocks do a single round of the tank each time you put on a layer = 6inches +cement.108inches = 9 feet ,18 rows of blocks on there edge.labour was my own plus a neigbour.i have no other costs as my accoutant has all reciepts for end of year accounts and i am registered for vat for vat claim.my saveings areon the walls hire of shuttering- concrete- steel,

leg wax

reilig wrote: »

How on earth did he get it water tight? Would the water in the slurry not flow out between the floor and side wall if there was no continuous joint reinforced with steel? I certainly wouldn't risk putting a couple of €k of concrete in the ground like that - with no guarantee that it would work.

I've heard of reinforced concrete tanks cracking and losing the water from them - surely this would be a recipe for disaster for your neighbour?

when they pour new grant added slurry tanks do they pour the floor and the walls all in one pour?i thought you would pour the floor first with steel in place for the walls and when set the put up caseing for walls on the floor.where can the walls go everthing out side has never been touched .where can the floor go with slurry on top,once the the floor was not dug out below the bottom of the wall,why do you need steel ground ground conditions are stable out side and slurry is applying pressure outward from the inside,it all depends on sit location,on a other thread someone was looking to buy a digger on tracks for land drainage on there own farm we are lucky in waterford with our land mostly been dry the only time we saw a track machine is on a building site. everone will always hear the bad stories .the worse the site location the more money its going to cost for any job be it a tank or dewlling house:cool:

Sam Kade

reilig wrote: »

How on earth did he get it water tight? Would the water in the slurry not flow out between the floor and side wall if there was no continuous joint reinforced with steel? I certainly wouldn't risk putting a couple of €k of concrete in the ground like that - with no guarantee that it would work.

I've heard of reinforced concrete tanks cracking and losing the water from them - surely this would be a recipe for disaster for your neighbour?

Walls with no foundation expected to hold the weight of slats + weight of cattle. Unless he was lucky enough to meet rock at the bottom of the walls which I doubt.

leg wax

Sam Kade wrote: »

Walls with no foundation expected to hold the weight of slats + weight of cattle. Unless he was lucky enough to meet rock at the bottom of the walls which I doubt.

when asked is a glass half full or half empty ,i think sam kade would say half empty;)

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

when they pour new grant added slurry tanks do they pour the floor and the walls all in one pour?i thought you would pour the floor first with steel in place for the walls and when set the put up caseing for walls on the floor.where can the walls go everthing out side has never been touched .where can the floor go with slurry on top,once the the floor was not dug out below the bottom of the wall,why do you need steel ground ground conditions are stable out side and slurry is applying pressure outward from the inside,it all depends on sit location,on a other thread someone was looking to buy a digger on tracks for land drainage on there own farm we are lucky in waterford with our land mostly been dry the only time we saw a track machine is on a building site. everone will always hear the bad stories .the worse the site location the more money its going to cost for any job be it a tank or dewlling house:cool:

I'm not doubting you, I'm just saying that its a big risk to put a couple of €k of mass concrete into the ground with nothing but hope that it will be water tight. As Sam Kade says, your neighbour not only risks his hard earned money, but also risks the lives of his cattle and the people working with him with a structure that is unstable. Good or bad ground conditions, steel is there for the purpose of tieing the floor into the wall of the tank.

F.D

I'm wondering has anyone any updates on this since, or how is the market going is there as much savings as people thought?
We are starting to price up turning an existing 5 bay round roof shed 24ft wide into a slatted shed with 14.6 slats and adding a leanto to one side for feeding and to put a decent cattle crush into as well.
Pricing the concrete so far there has been a difference of €6 per m3
slats there has been a difference of €1800 and thats just pricing 2 companies so far

massey woman

What sort of money are ye being quoted for 35N20 concrete
I'm getting a huge variation in prices.There is either someone putting in too much-the right amount-of cement and many putting in too little.
How can you decide

F.D

Havent priced up the concrete too much yet but my friend is also pricing up a tank and he is getting quoted from€71 - €78 inc the vat, my cousin got quoted €65 i dont know what stenght that was but he needed an elevator to reach the shutters in places and it was to be supplied as part of the deal, now the invoice has come with a 120€ charge on it for the elevator, so there is a dispute ongoing at the moment over it,
As far as the stenght of the concrete isnt there some sort of cubes you can get them to fill and then sent them off to be tested, so a sample from each load? i'd say once they seen you coming with them at all it would be up to spec

alphamale 1

A few suggestions i would give anyone doing a shed

1. Always if possible go with 2 agitation points if going for a three bay shed (47 ft long)

2. Always go for a 14'6 tank as you get an awful lot more storage and you still have the same excavation costs along with not an awful lot more concrete required. Slats are a bit dearer alritge.

3. Don't have spaced sheeting over calf creep but ok for rest of shed

4. Put good lighting

5. Galvanising in my opinion is a waste of money as shot-blasting, priming and painting will cover you for grant so must be good enough.

In general a 3 bay shed wud have cost under the fwms about 45 k but i reckon you wud get it done for at max 30k as steel has dropped a lot

Bitten & Hisses

alphamale 1 wrote: »

Galvanising in my opinion is a waste of money as shot-blasting, priming and painting will cover you for grant so must be good enough.

I would agree with you in most cases, but a friend of mine near the Atlantic coast galvanised his new shed as he was forever repairing corroded steel due to the sea air getting at the older buildings.

alphamale 1

Very true, Forgot to mention that coastal locations should be dipped in all cases. Well worth the few extra grand. :pac:

adne

alphamale 1 wrote: »

A few suggestions i would give anyone doing a shed


3. Don't have spaced sheeting over calf creep but ok for rest of shed

5. Galvanising in my opinion is a waste of money as shot-blasting, priming and painting will cover you for grant so must be good enough.

Why u say this for point 3?

Galvanising is well worth it in the long run

Pwall

lads i am pricing tanks and sheds at the moment
100ft tank is comin in at bout 19k
slats are round the 12k mark prob little less.
prices are def down plus i have the option of changing my plan a fair bit

alphamale 1

The reason i said that is that when calves/weanlings are lying in the creep area, the wind will give them a chill which can possibly cause pnenuomia or at least set up thrive

Rujib1

Pwall wrote: »

lads i am pricing tanks and sheds at the moment
100ft tank is comin in at bout 19k
slats are round the 12k mark prob little less.
prices are def down plus i have the option of changing my plan a fair bit

What width tank? Does that include excavation?

T

Pwall

16ft 6
it does not include excavation.
it includes all the concrete for the tank + steel. 35 newton concrete.
Grant spec basically whatever that is was.
pretty happy with it to be honest

F.D

Pwall : is this in an existing building or have you price up a shed to cover it yet?

Pwall

no price on a shed yet. we might leave the shed till next year. we priced it alright to cover just the tank and it was round 18k but we might be roofin parlour as well so not sure

alphamale 1

Sounds like a major development. Have you checked the drawings with Teagasc /consultant to see is there anything you are leaving out or could do differently

Pwall

no we didnt check with them. you don't have to check with them if your not getting the grant. we have the agitation points outside which is always a concern so we are happy with that.

Pwall

Hey,
does anyone know anything bout air agitation as in how reliable is it? how much?
Also does anyone know companies who do it?
i would be grateful for any help or ideas
thanks

blue5000

Pwall wrote: »

Hey,
does anyone know anything bout air agitation as in how reliable is it? how much?
Also does anyone know companies who do it?
i would be grateful for any help or ideas
thanks

A neighbour of mine put it in an open lined lagoon, works ok on night rate esb, cost almost 30k for the agitation system alone. I will find out who put it in for him and get back to you over the weekend

clockplane

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