Deportation case mother had fake baby death papers, inquiry told

Irlbo

Jude Easy Zipper wrote: »

Could you tell apart someone from Nigeria and any other african country? Doubt it really... You also don't know what assylum is. I sence a lot of racism in here...

I hear directly from the interviewers mouth about what happened. How am I to prove it is fact? I don't know, must it be printed in some crappy tabloid? Can I refer to a radio talk show?

If so, then you people wanting her out don't have the whole story. The documents have not been studied in detail yet, so nobody, and I mean nobody but the doctor and this mother actually know the truth. We will hear in due time, until then keep your racist remarks to yourselves

How am I racist?,did I comment on the colour of the skin?,did I make any statement regarding their culture and traditions?,no I didnt,this would constituite me a racist,what I did was outline my experienced of Nigerians(and yes I can make a distinction between Nigerians and other black people),and I have a fair idea what asylum is,I have worked in this field before,........................see what your doing is the typical lefty bleeding heart bit,if someone makes a point critising immigration your automatic rebuttal is to call them a racist,its really quiet petty,wake up and get real,the vast majority of Nigerians are here to milk this country and give nothing back,if you think otherwise I feel sorry for you

marcsignal

Magnus wrote: »

it's not like she'll be able to pay it back.

she comes from a wealthy family in Nigeria. She drove a Mercedes SUV and had a house maid there, so she could afford to refund the Irish taxpayer for her own legal expences, if she was so inclined, after all, that would be the honest, decent thing to do.

Boskowski

Irlbo wrote: »

... call me a racist if you wish,but in general I find the majority Nigerians a very brash,rude,shady and devious race of people ...

Sorry, but that's what you would call racist alright. And you anticipated it even.

Wagon

WindSock wrote: »

The issue can't have been highlighted any greater than through a controversial courtcase. It has every tom mary and anto talking about it. Thats a good thing. She didn't win the case but I am glad everyone in this country is now aware of the barbaric horrors that prevail for so many young girls Africa.

I'm not being bad about it but what can we do that's useful? The only people who can change the practice are the onces who are in power. in Africa. Now im all up for getting a load of lads and me armed and go in guns blazing cos I recently finished Far Cry 2 and want it to continue cos it was great, but realistically what can we do beyond raising awareness?

Homer

Wagon wrote: »

I'm not being bad about it but what can we do that's useful? The only people who can change the practice are the onces who are in power. in Africa. Now im all up for getting a load of lads and me armed and go in guns blazing cos I recently finished Far Cry 2 and want it to continue cos it was great, but realistically what can we do beyond raising awareness?

Civil war anyone? I bags being on the southern side when it kicks off

Could do with some help around the house.

biko

The curious case of Pamela Izevbekhai
Is saving her girls the real reason for this mother’s campaign?

Since January 2006 her legal team, working on a pro bono basis, have appeared before High Court judges at least nine times

The spokesman also emphasised that Izevbekhai, who worked as a bank official, was “well-off” in Nigeria and has not benefited financially from living in “dreary, wet Ireland on €19 a week”.

Kemafo Nonyerem Chikwe, the Nigerian ambassador in Ireland, is frustrated that Irish people now consider Nigeria a “barbaric country” because of the fears of FGM raised by the case. “It is blatantly untrue that anything would happen to her and her children if they went back to Nigeria,” she said. “Her husband was stopped at the border and was arrested coming into Ireland. What more evidence do you want about her motives?”

Chikwe said she believes Izevbekhai came to Ireland searching for “greener pastures” and demands documentary evidence that Elizabeth Izevbekhai died as a result of a botched FGM procedure in 1994. “Many Nigerians call me to ask: ‘What are you doing about this? This woman is disparaging Nigeria and is being selfish’,” she claimed.

The ambassador said the money the Irish state has spent on defending Izevbekhai’s legal actions could have funded research into her claims in Nigeria. “If we find that she is telling the truth and it’s an isolated case, then we will make Nigeria safe for her,” Chikwe said. “I will personally request an advocacy group, a respectable [non-governmental organisation], to help her if she can prove it.”

Izevbekhai’s lawyers completely reject all the ambassador’s assertions and say medical records from the hospital where Elizabeth Izevbekhai died have been presented to the Irish courts and the manner of her death has not been an issue.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5627486.ece

tbh

Irlbo wrote: »

How am I racist?,did I comment on the colour of the skin?,did I make any statement regarding their culture and traditions?,no I didnt,this would constituite me a racist,what I did was outline my experienced of Nigerians(and yes I can make a distinction between Nigerians and other black people),and I have a fair idea what asylum is,I have worked in this field before,........................see what your doing is the typical lefty bleeding heart bit,if someone makes a point critising immigration your automatic rebuttal is to call them a racist,its really quiet petty,wake up and get real,the vast majority of Nigerians are here to milk this country and give nothing back,if you think otherwise I feel sorry for you

I wouldn't say you are racist, exactly, but you are guilty of what is known as a lazy generalisation. You may have experienced a fair number of Nigerians, and had bad experiences with all of them, but you have a duty as a right-minded person to still treat every case as if it were your first. It's hard to do that, but it's important. That's why not doing it is classed as lazy.

The vast majority - as you say - of Nigerians in this country are not giving nothing back. I see loads of African businesses, taxi-drivers etc etc. They are here and they are working, and they have as much right to do that as anyone else. They deserve the same respect for that as anyone else. What you are doing is dismissing the entire efforts of a generally hard-working and decent community, based on the actions of a percentage of them, and that's not fair. It's not what a decent person does, and I used to think, given our experiences, it's not what a patriotic Irish person does.

Of course, you can make the argument that it's patriotic to defend your country from spongers, but the system is slow because the Irish government recognise and accept their obligation to investigate each case from a starting presumption of innocence, and a desire to establish the full facts of the case. It's not the easier option, and in cases like this it's usually unpopular, but it's the right thing to do, imo anyway. What it boils down to is this. A straight choice:

Deserving cases get rejected due to the risk of letting undeserving cases through

or

Undeserving cases get through due to the risk of turning away deserving cases.

My opinion is that, as humans, we have an obligation to pick the second choice. Sometimes, undeserving cases get through, but that's an acceptable price to pay for the greater good. imo

Degsy

Jude Easy Zipper wrote: »

Could you tell apart someone from Nigeria and any other african country? Doubt it really... You also don't know what assylum is. I sence a lot of racism in here...

I hear directly from the interviewers mouth about what happened. How am I to prove it is fact? I don't know, must it be printed in some crappy tabloid? Can I refer to a radio talk show?

If so, then you people wanting her out don't have the whole story. The documents have not been studied in detail yet, so nobody, and I mean nobody but the doctor and this mother actually know the truth. We will hear in due time, until then keep your racist remarks to yourselves

Here we go again.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is one of racism.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
That is the word most used by certain people when they're not happy with the way thier argument is going.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Typical lefty rubbish.

Terry

WindSock wrote: »

Are you saying that to her or her vagina?

I thought he was talking to her mingey. :winking smilie face:

Magnus wrote: »

We'll see what the courts make off this. Hopefully it'll be the end of it, it's cost us too much already and it's not like she'll be able to pay it back.
I would love for more fake asylum seekers to be deported, it would restore faith in the real ones.
For instance, to this day I don't understand why any Nigerians are in Ireland, there is no war on and so forth (another discussion I know).

Economic asylum.

Irlbo wrote: »

How am I racist?,did I comment on the colour of the skin?,did I make any statement regarding their culture and traditions?,no I didnt,this would constituite me a racist,what I did was outline my experienced of Nigerians(and yes I can make a distinction between Nigerians and other black people),and I have a fair idea what asylum is,I have worked in this field before,........................see what your doing is the typical lefty bleeding heart bit,if someone makes a point critising immigration your automatic rebuttal is to call them a racist,its really quiet petty,wake up and get real,the vast majority of Nigerians are here to milk this country and give nothing back,if you think otherwise I feel sorry for you

He didn't call you racist. Had he called you racist he would now be banned.

marcsignal wrote: »

she comes from a wealthy family in Nigeria. She drove a Mercedes SUV and had a house maid there, so she could afford to refund the Irish taxpayer for her own legal expences, if she was so inclined, after all, that would be the honest, decent thing to do.

Why the **** isn't she paying her own legal costs then?

WindSock

Irlbo wrote: »

How am I racist?,did I comment on the colour of the skin?,did I make any statement regarding their culture and traditions?,

Irlbo wrote: »

Im sorry and call me a racist if you wish,but in general I find the majority Nigerians a very brash,rude,shady and devious race of people and do nothing to advance the progression of this country,there would be a big smile on my face if they all disappeared back to Nigeria tommorow

Nothing to do with the colour of their skin but singling out a whole nation of people and tarring them all with the one brush and hoping they all feck off would be what I construe as racism.

Degsy

WindSock wrote: »

Nothing to do with the colour of their skin but singling out a whole nation of people and tarring them all with the one brush and hoping they all feck off would be what I construe as racism.

Whose fault is that then?

Ours or thiers?

javaboy

Irlbo wrote: »

That is Nigeria,they are an independant well established country with is own government and institutions,its their problem,not Irelands,could I go to Nigeria and claim asylum because of the recession in Ireland,I doubt it.................................Im sorry and call me a racist if you wish,but in general I find the majority Nigerians a very brash,rude,shady and devious race of people and do nothing to advance the progression of this country,there would be a big smile on my face if they all disappeared back to Nigeria tommorow

Jude Easy Zipper wrote: »

Could you tell apart someone from Nigeria and any other african country? Doubt it really... You also don't know what assylum is. I sence a lot of racism in here...

I hear directly from the interviewers mouth about what happened. How am I to prove it is fact? I don't know, must it be printed in some crappy tabloid? Can I refer to a radio talk show?

If so, then you people wanting her out don't have the whole story. The documents have not been studied in detail yet, so nobody, and I mean nobody but the doctor and this mother actually know the truth. We will hear in due time, until then keep your racist remarks to yourselves

Degsy wrote: »

Here we go again.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is one of racism.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
That is the word most used by certain people when they're not happy with the way thier argument is going.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Typical lefty rubbish.

Degsy did you even read the posts concerned? Read Irlbo's post that Jude Easy Zipper was replying to again. Pay special attention to the bit I bolded. They weren't specifically talking about this one instance. Irlbo made a fairly strong sweeping statement about most Nigerians. He even said "call me racist" for God's sake.

Dyr

Headlines:

Asylum seeker is lying f**k shock

Liberal champions are gullible twats shock

Tax payers money wasted shock

Breaking news: new research reveals that world is roundy

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

marcsignal wrote: »

I wonder what the Mayor of Sligo will have to say about this, not to mention Fine Gael & Roddy Doyle.

I also wonder will the PC brigade finally accept, that it is neccessary, and not racist, to dig a little deeper into the 'stories' told by people claiming asylum, so that chancers can be weeded out, and genuine cases can be treated with the dignity they deserve.

I totally agree, the government should have every right to investigate fully every case of asylum. I wouldn't call it racist to investigate, but it is racist to say "get rid of them all" or something like that.

WindSock wrote: »

Are you saying that to her or her vagina?



The issue can't have been highlighted any greater than through a controversial courtcase. It has every tom mary and anto talking about it. Thats a good thing. She didn't win the case but I am glad everyone in this country is now aware of the barbaric horrors that prevail for so many young girls Africa.

Not yet she didn't, next step is the European Human Rights Courts... which I can see favouring her case. Now, both parties, herself and the nigerian government have to produce documents. If hers are forged then case closed and off she goes. If not then this may take some time to sort out. The nigerian governemt are obviously not going to produce forged documents, now are they?

Irlbo wrote: »

That is Nigeria,they are an independant well established country with is own government and institutions,its their problem,not Irelands,could I go to Nigeria and claim asylum because of the recession in Ireland,I doubt it.................................Im sorry and call me a racist if you wish,but in general I find the majority Nigerians a very brash,rude,shady and devious race of people and do nothing to advance the progression of this country,there would be a big smile on my face if they all disappeared back to Nigeria tommorow

What I highlighted is what I have a problem with, well not a personal problem, but you know what I mean

Firstly, there are certain grounds on which you can claim asylum, a recession is not one of them.

"Devious race", this claims all nigerians, there's approximately 150 million people living in nigeria, are they all "devious"?

Wishing an entire race of people to leave your country is racist, nothing more to it.

You cannot tar an entire nation, especially one as big as nigeria by your personal experiences. They have a differant culture. Doesn't make them shady or devious in any way...

Magnus wrote: »

We'll see what the courts make off this. Hopefully it'll be the end of it, it's cost us too much already and it's not like she'll be able to pay it back.
I would love for more fake asylum seekers to be deported, it would restore faith in the real ones.
For instance, to this day I don't understand why any Nigerians are in Ireland, there is no war on and so forth (another discussion I know).

Why should they not be in Ireland... We should post signs stating that you are not allowed into the country if you are not from a war torn country?

War is not the only way to seek asylum... That is a main factor, but not the only one.

Irlbo wrote: »

How am I racist?,did I comment on the colour of the skin?,did I make any statement regarding their culture and traditions?,no I didnt,this would constituite me a racist,what I did was outline my experienced of Nigerians(and yes I can make a distinction between Nigerians and other black people),and I have a fair idea what asylum is,I have worked in this field before,........................see what your doing is the typical lefty bleeding heart bit,if someone makes a point critising immigration your automatic rebuttal is to call them a racist,its really quiet petty,wake up and get real,the vast majority of Nigerians are here to milk this country and give nothing back,if you think otherwise I feel sorry for you

Posted above and highlighted the racist parts

I am not a part of no PC brigade, but I do believe in equal rights for one and all... no matter who you are, where you are from, your religion, political views, etc etc...

I do feel sorry for this woman, that the majority of us will support her in her case. I do believe she is telling the truth, not looking at tabloid crap, but facts from the mouth of someone who interviewed the woman and the doctor and some other people. I cannot say much more, I can not reference it exactly, not sure if I will get banned or not if I say it.

realcam wrote: »

Sorry, but that's what you would call racist alright. And you anticipated it even.

Exactly Why anticipate it?

WindSock

Terry wrote: »

I thought he was talking to her mingey. :winking smilie face:

Abuse of mod powers

WindSock

Degsy wrote: »

Whose fault is that then?

Ours or thiers?

What fault?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Degsy wrote: »

Here we go again.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is one of racism.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
That is the word most used by certain people when they're not happy with the way thier argument is going.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Typical lefty rubbish.

no no, I am not calling people racist or using the racism card here, not at all. Just using them words about another post, not the case in question.

She may or may not be a fraud, she may or may not be a liar. We simply do not know at this stage. Certain documentation has not been put forward yet. Which will hopefully happen soon.

I am not using racism to sway the argument my way. Stop with the claims already...

Daroxtar

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

no, but i do have a vagina so i can appreciate where she is coming from on this one, i like mine the way it is and i sure as hell know that if some dude was gonna come at me with a rusty blade de-sex me and sew me up so that my husband could enjoy sex i'd be a bit pissed of too.

I have a penis. Some b'stard chopped off my foreskin without my permission when i was a child. I liked it the way it was, Where were you then? Off protesting outside synagogues no doubt. It must have been a woman who came up with that dastardly practise. I had to figure out a different way to wa nk.:rolleyes:

Alcatel

Can we move away from racism to the point that this long running case has seen an attempted fraud against the state?

<SNIP> She should go home. Everyone else can be dealt with on a case by case basis, and let this be a lesson for us to be more vigilant and not to take every sop story at face value.

If there's a real threat, the people should be allowed to stay.

<SNIP>, and I would suspect that she perhaps came here simply for the economic boon, not because of any fear of anything back home.

tbh

Degsy wrote: »

Whose fault is that then?

Ours or thiers?

it's always our degsy. It's always ours. The only person responsible for your actions, thoughts and attitudes is you.

gibo_ie

It was on the radio this morning that it is not a lie and that the statements made by doctors who delivered the baby have been withdrawn after official visit from an army general back home and demanded not to speak further to Irish Journalists and Politicians.
They had a recorded interview with the doctor win 2005 who went back and got the paperwork from 2000 and read out the details etc...

So for or against the deportation, the story seems to be true...

sparklepants

WindSock wrote: »

I couldn't give a **** about my taxes being 'wasted' if it raises the issue of genital mutilation.

I'd say that this case has done the opposite- it's made female genital mutilation look phoney, when it isn't.

It's also made some people even more xenophobic. The whole case has done a disservice to the causes of immigrants in this country. Some of the commentry here confirms this.

Terry

Last warning.
Facts only or you will be banned.

We've been lenient enough at this stage.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Daroxtar wrote: »

I have a penis. Some b'stard chopped off my foreskin without my permission when i was a child. I liked it the way it was, Where were you then? Off protesting outside synagogues no doubt. It must have been a woman who came up with that dastardly practise. I had to figure out a different way to wa nk.:rolleyes:

You are comparing forskin to a clitoris? Riiiight... you don't biology? I suggest you educate yourself somewhat.

Alcatel wrote: »

Can we move away from racism to the point that this long running case has seen an attempted fraud against the state?

<SNIP>. She should go home. Everyone else can be dealt with on a case by case basis, and let this be a lesson for us to be more vigilant and not to take every sop story at face value.

If there's a real threat, the people should be allowed to stay.

<SNIP>, and I would suspect that she perhaps came here simply for the economic boon, not because of any fear of anything back home.

What exactly has she lied about? What attempt has been made to fraud the state, and by whom?

Degsy

tbh wrote: »

it's always our degsy. It's always ours. The only person responsible for your actions, thoughts and attitudes is you.

How are thoughts,actions and attitudes influenced?
Was it not the behaviour of certain people in ireland(and elsewhere)that shaped these negative attitudes?
Bad behaviour enforcing bad stereotypes.

WindSock

Daroxtar wrote: »

I have a penis. Some b'stard chopped off my foreskin without my permission when i was a child. I liked it the way it was, Where were you then? Off protesting outside synagogues no doubt. It must have been a woman who came up with that dastardly practise. I had to figure out a different way to wa nk.:rolleyes:

Male circumsicion was never carried out in order to hinder his sexual function. It was initially a custom from North Africa, the middle east and sandy countries that helped prevent sand getting stuck in the foreskin and prevented infections. It has even been proven today that circumcised males suffer less stds. The roots of Female Circumcision differ vastly and is extremely invasive and unthinkable when you have to consider she will be giving birth not long after.

tbh

Degsy wrote: »

How are thoughts,actions and attitudes influenced?
Was it not the behaviour of certain people in ireland(and elsewhere)that shaped these negative attitudes?
Bad behaviour enforcing bad stereotypes.

if you meet Mr. A, and he's a dick, then it's fine for you to think of Mr. A. as a dick. It is not fair, however, to assume that Mr. B is a dick just because he comes from the same town as Mr. A. Well, it's not fair if you don't want others to make the same assumptions about you based on where you come from.

Degsy, you're treating stereotypes as tho they are a handy time saving guide to the traits of an entire race. Stereotypes are bad, degsy, bad!

WindSock

Degsy wrote: »

How are thoughts,actions and attitudes influenced?
Was it not the behaviour of certain people in ireland(and elsewhere)that shaped these negative attitudes?
Bad behaviour enforcing bad stereotypes.

What would you know you thick illiterate paddy. You must be pissed, you don't know what you're talking about. Go back to the bog and ride your sister.

IIMII

Jeez, this is scary. I was always queasy that FGM might be used as a golden key to Ireland, but this really takes the biscuit. As an aside, I think the problem of FGM needs to addressed where it happens. It reminds me of Mahommad and the mountain. Do you sort the problem in Nigeria or should the entire population of Nigeria be given the option to emigrate to here?

Dublin1600

gibo_ie wrote: »

It was on the radio this morning that it is not a lie and that the statements made by doctors who delivered the baby have been withdrawn after official visit from an army general back home and demanded not to speak further to Irish Journalists and Politicians.
They had a recorded interview with the doctor win 2005 who went back and got the paperwork from 2000 and read out the details etc...

So for or against the deportation, the story seems to be true...

What about this part,

"Paul McHenry, third secretary at the Irish Embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, describes how he had been shown that the registry of deaths in the Surulere district in Lagos for 1994 showed only 55 entries but the certificate produced for Elizabeth Izevbekhai was entered as number 56."

thebman

WindSock wrote: »

The issue can't have been highlighted any greater than through a controversial courtcase. It has every tom mary and anto talking about it. Thats a good thing. She didn't win the case but I am glad everyone in this country is now aware of the barbaric horrors that prevail for so many young girls Africa.

Not greater just better. This case doesn't do justice to the issue. She didn't win the case and now people will question anyone with a similar story to see if it is the case. Everyone who is in this country with a story like this if asked how they arrived in Ireland or choose Ireland to move to, will now feel a little more anxiety before telling the story because of this woman.

And your defending her wrongful actions. An ad campaign would have been better money spent TBH or donation to a charity that is challenging the issue to help further their work on the issue.

I don't think people are aware of those issues anyway. The focus of the story is clearly lying asylum seeker rather than mutilation. Half the people probably won't get to that part of the article or will skim it because they have no interest. People with no interest will always find a way to not be educated on matters.

Degsy

There was a travel documentary a while back in which the presenter visited Mali(i think).
He travelled to a village where female circumcision is carried out and interviewed the head woman of the village who performs the opertation.
She made it clear that whatver the why and the wherefores,the childs MOTHER is the only one who can insist on the operation.
It is also considered an honour and rite of passage in a society very different to ours.
Why people ten thousand miles away in this country feel the should oppose practicies that they know nothing about and doesnt concern them is beyond me.
On topic though.
This woman has practically exhausted every avenue available to her and her brats to stay in this country.
The usual story used to be that they were facing certain death or torture on religous or ethnic grounds..this was usually disproved quickly.
Then they began spinning yarns saying they were in danger of stoning if they returned home..disproven again RAR left with egg all over thier faces.
So now they're talking about female circumcision as a reason for claiming asylum.
Anybody who knew anything about the practise would laugh that one out of class but there are people in this country who will belive anything..not people in govt or in the asylum process but ordinary people with middle-class,left wing views and thier heads in the clouds.The same people who call others racist at the drop of a hat over the slightest thing.
Getting behind a lost cause like this fulfills the twin desires or being a busybody and castigating anybody who doesnt hold thier world view(usually shaky and prone to change).
it is because of busybodies,always white and middle class that people like this woman are costing this country millions and millions of euro when we can least afford it.
It is my view that there should be no right to appeal the asylum process,all legal fees must be payed by the claimant and perjurers will be convicted of that crime and dealt with.
if the state stops funding legal appeals they'll soon dry up as nobody wants to waste thier own money on a lost cause..not when there's gullible taxpayers to do it for ya.
I think this woman is a liar,a thief and a con-artist.
I think she has no right to be in this country and her actions are only furthering racism.
Hear her out,clean her out then kick her out and waste no more money on people like her.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Degsy wrote: »

How are thoughts,actions and attitudes influenced?
Was it not the behaviour of certain people in ireland(and elsewhere)that shaped these negative attitudes?
Bad behaviour enforcing bad stereotypes.

Minorities create steriotypes.... wake up, would ya?


Gibo, can you remember the station that it was played on? I think it was gerry ryan, but it could have been newstalk either... I forget

IIMII

From article at link below:

'It confirmed Izevbekhai was issued with a two-year British “family visitor” visa in June 2004. This means she and her husband Tony were permitted to travel between the UK and Nigeria at the time when she claims to have paid a smuggler thousands of euros to arrange a transit to Europe.
Her husband was arrested in Dundalk in August 2005 as he travelled in a taxi from Belfast to Dublin without a valid visa. Documents indicated he had a permanent address in the UK. He was later deported.
The immigration services believe the family flew to Britain using a tourist visa, then travelled by ferry to Belfast and crossed the border. “The family didn’t apply for asylum in Britain as Tony Izevbekhai had extensive business interests in the UK and was travelling freely between Nigeria and the UK,” an immigration source said. “If she had lodged an asylum application in the UK, his visa would have been revoked. We don’t believe the story about how she arrived in Ireland.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5627486.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2

dontcallmecrazy

Daroxtar wrote: »

I have a penis. Some b'stard chopped off my foreskin without my permission when i was a child. I liked it the way it was, Where were you then? Off protesting outside synagogues no doubt. It must have been a woman who came up with that dastardly practise. I had to figure out a different way to wa nk.:rolleyes:

there is no comparison when it comes to male and female 'circumsion'.

woman have to give birth, menstruate and urinate all of which requires an opening.. when you take away this opening all of the above becomes extremly painful and leaves a woman open to infection, takes away her dignity and gives her problems that will stay with her through life so where you get of trying to compare you not being able to have an effing w*nk in the way you want to having to be ripped open and sewn back up after every child, where it takes you fifteen minutes to take a pee and weeks to menstruate because the opening is soo small only little drops can come out at a time, where you have to lie for weeks with your legs tied together to ''heal'' having being mutilated whilst lying on a rock in the bloody forest or desert somewhere by some person with a blade or other sharp instrument with no pain relief, antibiotics or basic medical care, in fear of your life that you might bleed out altogether and in extreme pain.

let alone the fact that they will never enjoy sex because the nerve ending are destroyed...

so the next time you need to take whizz or are fapping away to some bird in a magazine spare a little thought and be glad that you can.

tbh

Degsy wrote: »

Why people ten thousand miles away in this country feel the should oppose practicies that they know nothing about and doesnt concern them is beyond me.

I'll field this one. I'm not saying that the Irish army should invade Nigeria to stop this from happening. What I am saying is that if someone comes to my country, and says "This is going to happen to me if I return home" - and, importantly, this can be established - then we have an obligation to protect her, just as we would protect anyone who came from our country. Not to do so would be hypocritical in the extreme.

herya

Degsy wrote: »

Why people ten thousand miles away in this country feel the should oppose practicies that they know nothing about and doesnt concern them is beyond me.

Have you ever heard about "human rights"? And "mutilation"?

This case is most likely bogus - shame on the mother. But it does not disprove that girls out there are mutilated regularly; whether their mothers know or don't know is not relevant for such a girl. Even if you believe that a woman in Mali speaks for the whole of Africa.

Degsy

tbh wrote: »

if you meet Mr. A, and he's a dick, then it's fine for you to think of Mr. A. as a dick. It is not fair, however, to assume that Mr. B is a dick just because he comes from the same town as Mr. A. Well, it's not fair if you don't want others to make the same assumptions about you based on where you come from.

What if Mr A arrived in your town from X.
His first act was to bum a cigarette off you..okay you say..no problem.
Then Mr B arrives from teh same town,he shows up and asks you for a smoke.
Then Mr C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L from X show up and start demanding cigarettes from you.
When you refuse they accuse you of discriminating aganst them because of the town they're from.
Soon Messrs M,N,O,P and Q show up with thier families.They seem well to do but insist on trying to bumcigarettes off you.They then start complaining that they're not getting enough cigarettes this way and that they shouoldnt have to ask.
They take court cases demanding the rights to free cigarettes for them and thier families forever.
Soon the people from X comprise one in ten of your town,they make no attempt to integrate or contribute.
You mutter to your friends in the pub about these people and you have half the town on your back calling you names for failing in your duty to provide the people from X with cigarettes and anything else they may want.
They then pass a law outlawing the discussing of scabbing habits,appearance or charecteristics of the people from X so you have to accept it meekly of be ridiculed in public or sent to prison.

herya

Daroxtar wrote: »

I have a penis. Some b'stard chopped off my foreskin without my permission when i was a child. I liked it the way it was, Where were you then? Off protesting outside synagogues no doubt. It must have been a woman who came up with that dastardly practise. I had to figure out a different way to wa nk.:rolleyes:

You're just being ignorant. If you need to compare yourself to a FGM victim think rather of full castration and keeping the wound raw for years.

Clarehobo

Why have all her cases & appeals failed so far??? The state obviously knows something...

If the woman has mis-represented herself, kick her out. Simple as.


On another note, I saw a similar documentary call Tribe where an English girl went to live in a village where this was common practise(FGM) and none of the women seemed to be hiding under a rock. It was normal to them as it was part of their society and customs.
I also read Desert Flower which covered this subject and the girl was obviously an unwilling participant and scarred for life.

Be glad we live in a society where we have a choice on what happens our bodies.

Degsy

tbh wrote: »

"This is going to happen to me if I return home" - and, importantly, this can be established - then we have an obligation to protect her

No..we have an obligation (to our own people) to find out if she's telling the truth.
If she isnt we're well within our rights not to listen to such a story again.
Anyway,its not up to us to protect people from savagry..we're a small country..we dont have room for all these hard luck cases.
if they dont agree with waht happensd at home they should attempt to chnage things from withing,not flee with a cock and bull story looking for handouts.

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

What if(.....)prison.

Reductio ab adsurdum again. We're talking about a woman who made a claim which may not be true. Even if there were twenty more, it doesn't give you the right to generalise about a group that comprises 150 million people......Nor would a false claim of attack in one instance or more nessecarily mean that attacks of that kind do not happen.

Daroxtar

WindSock wrote: »

Male circumsicion was never carried out in order to hinder his sexual function. It was initially a custom from North Africa, the middle east and sandy countries that helped prevent sand getting stuck in the foreskin and prevented infections. It has even been proven today that circumcised males suffer less stds. The roots of Female Circumcision differ vastly and is extremely invasive and unthinkable when you have to consider she will be giving birth not long after.

Did i ask for my member to be mutilated?
No.

Was chopping off the skin invasive?
Yes.

Do i live in the desert?
No.


Consider this- if the child is going to be giving birth not long after having this procedure then the circumcision is probably the least of her worries.

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

No..we have an obligation (to our own people) to find out if she's telling the truth.
If she isnt we're well within our rights not to listen to such a story again.

So a false accusation of rape means theres no such thing as rape?

De Hipster

WindSock wrote: »

I couldn't give a **** about my taxes being 'wasted' if it raises the issue of genital mutilation.

I would suggest that she has undermined & damaged genuine campaigns & mocked the sufferings of those who have been or face genatile mutilation.

S.L.F

tbh wrote: »

we have an obligation to protect her

And I'll answer that one.

There is no direct link between Ireland and Nigeria

She said she came through Amsterdam so she should be sent back to her point of entry then the Dutch people would have to deal with her not us.

tbh

S.L.F wrote: »

And I'll answer that one.

There is no direct link between Ireland and Nigeria

She said she came through Amsterdam so she should be sent back to her point of entry then the Dutch people would have to deal with her not us.

she's a human being. that's what I meant.

dontcallmecrazy

Daroxtar wrote: »

Consider this- if the child is going to be giving birth not long after having this procedure then the circumcision is probably the least of her worries.

where do you get that from?

giving birth while fully functional and afforded the ability to dilate

or

giving birth while the birth canal is stiched up and relying on the baby's head to tear the skin

mmmm, think i know what option id go for.

Lu Tze

tbh wrote: »

I'll field this one. I'm not saying that the Irish army should invade Nigeria to stop this from happening...

Here here, as we all know it would interfere with Star fleets Prime Directive...

herya

Daroxtar wrote: »

Was chopping off the skin invasive?
Yes.

I'll say it once again, FGM is not circumcision.

Daroxtar wrote: »

Consider this- if the child is going to be giving birth not long after having this procedure then the circumcision is probably the least of her worries.

If you hear you're going to pass a kidney stone (possibly one of the most painful things in the world) go and chop off your willy, it will be the last of your worries.