Deportation case mother had fake baby death papers, inquiry told

Daroxtar

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

let alone the fact that they will never enjoy sex because the nerve ending are destroyed...

I take it the g spot is a myth so?

tbh

Degsy wrote: »

No..we have an obligation (to our own people) to find out if she's telling the truth.

hence my use of the words: "and, importantly, this can be established". So when you said no, you really meant yes, because you went on to make my point again.

If she isnt we're well within our rights not to listen to such a story again.

not to listen to such a story FROM HER again, yes. It has no bearing on other cases. You live in Finglas right? If you found yourself in court, would you like the judge to judge or pass sentence based on the actions of other people from finglas he's dealt with before? And if not, why is it acceptible for you to treat others any differently from how you'd like to be treated yourself?

Anyway,its not up to us to protect people from savagry..we're a small country..we dont have room for all these hard luck cases.
if they dont agree with waht happensd at home they should attempt to chnage things from withing,not flee with a cock and bull story looking for handouts.

I dunno degs, I think the "I'm all right jack" policy isn't one we want to be clinging to these days.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

dontcallmecrazy

Daroxtar wrote: »

I take it the g spot is a myth so?

well judging by your lack of knowledge in the biology department im surprised you've even heard of it let alone ever found it.

get a grip, here seriously its because you have a penis that you will not understand..

how about we get your mother or sister up on the kitchen table and cut of her labia and sew her back up, leave her in the garden shed for a few weeks for recover....still so bloody flipant about it now??

Daroxtar

WindSock wrote: »

Male circumsicion was never carried out in order to hinder his sexual function. It was initially a custom from North Africa, the middle east and sandy countries that helped prevent sand getting stuck in the foreskin and prevented infections. It has even been proven today that circumcised males suffer less stds. The roots of Female Circumcision differ vastly and is extremely invasive and unthinkable when you have to consider she will be giving birth not long after.

Thats where i'm getting that from. Now either pamela lied about what age the (alleged) child was when the fgm was carried out or pedophelia is rife over there. If it is common practise to get infants pregnant then in my belief the fgm is the least of the worries. So, is pamela a liar or is the above emboldened text a lie? I cant believe them both.

marcsignal

Terry wrote: »

Why the **** isn't she paying her own legal costs then?

good question.

herya

Daroxtar wrote: »

Thats where i'm getting that from. Now either pamela lied about what age the (alleged) child was when the fgm was carried out or pedophelia is rife over there. If it is common practise to get infants pregnant then in my belief the fgm is the least of the worries. So, is pamela a liar or is the above emboldened text a lie? I cant believe them both.

Are you for real? Has it ever occurred to you that Africa is a vast continent with FGM in place in many coutries and local customs are varied, sometimes it affects small children and sometimes young women?

Daroxtar

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

well judging by your lack of knowledge in the biology department im surprised you've even heard of it let alone ever found it.

get a grip, here seriously its because you have a penis that you will not understand..

how about we get your mother or sister up on the kitchen table and cut of her labia and sew her back up, leave her in the garden shed for a few weeks for recover....still so bloody flipant about it now??

I see where you're coming from now alright, as if it wasn't evident. As a husband and the father of a baby daughter I understand perfectly the horrors that could be inflicted. It doesn't mean i buy the bullsh!t and lies posted here in defense of a fraud.

ShooterSF

Two things sadden me here.

1: The joke of a system we have in this country and Europe that allows someone who has shown no respect for our countries laws to stay in the country this long.

2: People who are still standing by someone who is now more and more obviously lying to our courts. When someone legit applies for asylum it would be harder to listen to the opinion of people who would have a scam artist stay cause "she's a human being". I'm sorry but while in a perfect world we could take in anyone who wanted to come here (for what, in my opinion, this lady is really here for) economic reasons, we simply can't and more to the point the worst off are not the one's that can afford to even get this far.

Trust me she is doing nothing but harm when it comes to peoples opinion of multi-culturilism(sp?) rightly or wrongly and no one (regardless of your opinion on asylum issues) should be supporting this woman now.

Elessar

Ha, I knew it. Good riddance! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

dontcallmecrazy

Daroxtar wrote: »

Thats where i'm getting that from. Now either pamela lied about what age the (alleged) child was when the fgm was carried out or pedophelia is rife over there. If it is common practise to get infants pregnant then in my belief the fgm is the least of the worries. So, is pamela a liar or is the above emboldened text a lie? I cant believe them both.

FGM is carried out at various ages, anywhere from 3 to 5 years old right up to puberty or what they deem 'sexual marturity' i.e. ready to be sent of for marriage in exchange for a few goats or whatever as a man in areas where this practiced will not take a girl for marriage with out being mutilated as his train of though would be ''if she hasn't been mutilated well how do i know she is a virgin' 'and after a few kids the sex will crap' the general thinking is that the girl is dirty or whatever. for a man to have a daughter who has not been mutilated is as scary as anything because he is left with the prospect that no other man will take her of his hands and he will be left having to feed her for the rest of her life, for the father this brings some sort of 'shame' on him and the family. the woman are just brainwashed to go along with the men.

herya

Daroxtar wrote: »

I see where you're coming from now alright, as if it wasn't evident. As a husband and the father of a baby daughter I understand perfectly the horrors that could be inflicted. It doesn't mean i buy the bullsh!t and lies posted here in defense of a fraud.

A fraud is a fraud and FGM is FGM. That she had lied and especially invented a dead girl to carry her through asylum procedure for personal gain is an utter disgrace and I hope she will bear the consequences. But to question all FGM cases basing on this is simply ignorant.

RasTa

In all honest, why gives a fcuk!

Degsy

Nodin wrote: »

Even if there were twenty more, it doesn't give you the right to generalise about a group that comprises 150 million people......

Nigeria isnt a group,its a country.
I can generalise about a country if i so choose,everybody else does.
Or are we NOT allowed to generalise about a country if the inhabitants happen to be black?
You're actually displaying racism yourself but you dont realise it.
What you're doing is being patronising towards black people,you think that they cannot sort out thier own affairs(as a race) and that white people like you can fight thier corner for them,obviously from the safety of home.
This implies that you,as thier spokesman,feel supeirior in some way to the people you think you're defending.

tbh

Degsy wrote: »

Nigeria isnt a group,its a country.
I can generalise about a country if i so choose,everybody else does.
Or are we NOT allowed to generalise about a country if the inhabitants happen to be black?
You're actually being racist yourself but you dont realise it.
What you're doing is being patronising towards black people,you think that they cannot sort out thier own affairs(as a race) and that white people like you can fight thier corner for them,obviously from the safety of home.
This implies that you,as thier spokesman,feel supeirior in some way to the people you think you're defending.

Timmeh!

the ironic thing is Degsy that if everyone had the same atitude as you, you wouldn't have been able to get taxpayers money to help you buy your gaff. I didn't get any help off the government to buy my house, so why should you? Luckily for you, most people, like me, have a live and let live attitude. I wouldn't be too loose with oul spongers comments if I were in your house tho

Nodin

Degsy wrote: »

Nigeria isnt (....)nding.

The nationality 'nigerian' is a grouping, however.

I've proposed no solutions to any of the problems touched on, so I'd suggest your comments about my views on Africa are wild speculation.

I've merely taken issue with the sweeping generalisations, and the rather silly comment

Degsy wrote:

No..we have an obligation (to our own people) to find out if she's telling the truth.
If she isnt we're well within our rights not to listen to such a story again.

As I asked you earlier, does this mean that a false claim of rape means that theres no such thing?

Dudess

Wow, if she was scamming, send her home.

But really, using her case to condemn all Nigerians/Africans/immigrants is just appalling - as is using her case to condemn all asylum-seekers, including the genuine ones (seriously, read some Amnesty literature on some of the horrors being carried out against people around the world - you'd want to get the hell out too).
And finally, being dismissive of female genital mutilation - learn what the **** it is first instead of displaying your ignorance so explicitly. LOL at someone who effectively said a circumcised woman can still experience sexual pleasure because her g-spot is left... :rolleyes:

dontcallmecrazy

Daroxtar wrote: »

I see where you're coming from now alright, as if it wasn't evident. As a husband and the father of a baby daughter I understand perfectly the horrors that could be inflicted. It doesn't mean i buy the bullsh!t and lies posted here in defense of a fraud.

im not going to say this woman is fibbing or not simply because i have no right to say that she is a liar when i cant see inside her head to know if she is being truthful or not as another poster said only her and the doctor know the real truth, and i just feel for her if she is being honest because all she wants to do is protect her children.

but its the topic of FGM that riles me when it is such a sensitive thing to be flippant about and not to recognise it for what it is.

Clarehobo

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

im not going to say this woman is fibbing or not simply because i have no right to say that she is a liar when i cant see inside her head to know if she is being truthful or not as another poster said only her and the doctor know the real truth, and i just feel for her if she is being honest because all she wants to do is protect her children.

but its the topic of FGM that riles me when it is such a sensitive thing to be flippant about and not to recognise it for what it is.

But what actually riles me up is there are people out there who have had children die as a result of this practise.
IF she is lying about the death of a child, I think deportation is too good for her.

Degsy

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

but its the topic of FGM that riles me when it is such a sensitive thing to be flippant about and not to recognise it for what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPAVmZFgwW0&feature=PlayList&p=F1E38D17FA13BE26&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=42

There it is in all its glory....NEXT!

Placebo

Dublin1600 wrote: »

So its been revealed that this woman Pamela Izevbekhai who never give birth to a daughter she claim died of female genital mutilation. The Irish embassy in Nigeria confirms, "that the registry of deaths in the Surulere district in Lagos for 1994 showed only 55 entries but the certificate produced for Elizabeth Izevbekhai was entered as number 56". A Nigerian obstetrician has dismissed a document, allegedly signed by him, as a forgery. He also rejected Mrs Izevbekhai's claim that she gave birth to a daughter, Elizabeth, in February 1993 and that the girl died on July 16, 1994, following female genital mutilation. How much of our tax was wasted on this woman in countless appeals.

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

Rented Mule

Nodin wrote: »

No, you're again transferring from the specific to the general. If a woman appears saying that she's been raped and is found to have lied, that does not mean rape does not occur, just that it hasn't occured in that instance. Likewise if a number of Nigerians have acted in a certain way, it doesnt mean all Nigerians will act similarily.

Wow....just wow.

Let's break down the specifics of this story.

1) She claimed that her child was mutilated
2) She claimed that her child died from this act
3 This child never existed
4) She falsified documents
5) She lied to the Irish people about this crime
6) She is wasting valuable state resources in the meantime by continuing with this farce.

She is a liar. Perjury is a crime.

She shouldn't let the door hit her on the arse going out the door.

Terry

ShooterSF wrote: »

Two things sadden me here.

1: The joke of a system we have in this country and Europe that allows someone who has shown no respect for our countries laws to stay in the country this long.

2: People who are still standing by someone who is now more and more obviously lying to our courts. When someone legit applies for asylum it would be harder to listen to the opinion of people who would have a scam artist stay cause "she's a human being". I'm sorry but while in a perfect world we could take in anyone who wanted to come here (for what, in my opinion, this lady is really here for) economic reasons, we simply can't and more to the point the worst off are not the one's that can afford to even get this far.

Trust me she is doing nothing but harm when it comes to peoples opinion of multi-culturilism(sp?) rightly or wrongly and no one (regardless of your opinion on asylum issues) should be supporting this woman now.

herya wrote: »

A fraud is a fraud and FGM is FGM. That she had lied and especially invented a dead girl to carry her through asylum procedure for personal gain is an utter disgrace and I hope she will bear the consequences. But to question all FGM cases basing on this is simply ignorant.

Both banned.
I gave three warnings on this thread about calling her a liar.
It has not been proven that she lied.

thebman

Placebo wrote: »

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

I imagine most of the new people on the dole have made PRSI payments are just getting what they put in to the dole.

You can blame the government for not being responsible with the money they gave them.

Degsy

Clarehobo wrote: »

But what actually riles me up is there are people out there who have had children die as a result of this practise.

There are people in this country who have had children die due to bad nutrition,neglect and abuse.
Our job is to concentrate on them,not a bunch of people thousands of miles away.
If it riles you so much you should volunteer to go over and stop it..

Terry

Rented Mule wrote: »

Wow....just wow.

Let's break down the specifics of this story.

1) She claimed that her child was mutilated
2) She claimed that her child died from this act
3 This child never existed
4) She falsified documents
5) She lied to the Irish people about this crime
6) She is wasting valuable state resources in the meantime by continuing with this farce.

She is a liar. Perjury is a crime.

She shouldn't let the door hit her on the arse going out the door.

And another ban.

dontcallmecrazy

Clarehobo wrote: »

But what actually riles me up is there are people out there who have had children die as a result of this practise.
IF she is lying about the death of a child, I think deportation is too good for her.

I agree totally, im not denying that IF she is waffling then yeah get her out, big time & money waster etc...BUT none of us know for sure, she is being branded a fraud regardless though. i woudl just hate to think that IF she is genuine then she is being put through an awful ordeal, just the softy in me.

Nodin

Rented Mule wrote: »

Wow....just wow.

Let's (.........)the door.

Allegedly.....

I don't think you've been following. This is what I was/am responding to .....

No..we have an obligation (to our own people) to find out if she's telling the truth.
If she isnt we're well within our rights not to listen to such a story again.

Logically, a false claim of injury via car crash does not mean that there is no such thing as car crashes, or injury by them.

Santa Claus

Placebo wrote: »

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

As someone on the dole, this is incredibly insulting. I spent 12 years working and paying taxes ,before being made unemployed.

Dole is approx 10k a year.....I'm sure this woman gets a hell of a lot more out of the state for supporting herself and her children without ever having paid a cent in taxes in this country (ok, she pays VAT on purchases but everyone does).

And lets not getr started on how much she has cost taxpayers with her solicitors/barristers fees from each court hearing !!!!!!

Don't know what stats you're looking at, but there's very little voluntary unemployment about at the moment.

dontcallmecrazy wrote: »

I agree totally, im not denying that IF she is waffling then yeah get her out, big time & money waster etc...BUT none of us know for sure, she is being branded a fraud regardless though

None of us know for sure ??? Garda investigation proved certificate was false and Doctor denies any knowledge of delivering/signing death cert for baby....sounds fairly iron cast to me that she is a fraud !

Terry

Santa Claus wrote: »

As someone on the dole, this is incredibly insulting. I spent 12 years working and paying taxes ,before being made unemployed.

Dole is approx 10k a year.....I'm sure this woman gets a hell of a lot more out of the state for supporting herself and her children without ever having paid a cent in taxes in this country (ok, she pays VAT on purchases but everyone does).

And lets not getr started on how much she has cost taxpayers with her solicitors/barristers fees from each court hearing !!!!!!

Don't know what stats you're looking at, but there's very little voluntary unemployment about at the moment.

Yeah, but you only work one night a year.

Completely agree with your post. Out of thanks.
/serious.

Clarehobo

Degsy wrote: »

There are people in this country who have had children die due to bad nutrition,neglect and abuse.
Our job is to concentrate on them,not a bunch of people thousands of miles away.
If it riles you so much you should volunteer to go over and stop it..

You missed my point completely - I was actually trying to get across that if she has lied about such a horrible thing, that deportation is too good for her.
If she has lied about it, she is the lowest of the low.

If you had read my previous post, I neither condoned nor opposed FGM as it is a characteristic of some African societies and it would be prejudiced and racist of me to judge a society on the basis of that practise.

Lu Tze

Nodin wrote: »

Allegedly.....

Logically, a false claim of injury via car crash does not mean that there is no such thing as car crashes, or injury by them.

I presume he meant we shouldn't listen to the same specific case again in another (higher) court if it has been proved she has given false evidence, not that all cases which are similar to this one should not be listened to.

Though i may be wrong!

Daroxtar

Dudess wrote: »

LOL at someone who effectively said a circumcised woman can still experience sexual pleasure because her g-spot is left... :rolleyes:

Why not?
If all the external nerve endings are destroyed as previously stated then there will be no sensation on the outside. Therefore the internal nerve endings would be the ones which would need to be stimulated. If you ever had an orgasm you would be aware that there are, according to so called experts at least 2 types of female orgasm, internal and external( we wont go into examples of anal or the rarer cases involving nipple stimulation) While FGM precludes a woman having an external, clitorally stimulated orgasm it does not prevent orgasm due to stimulation of the G spot. I'm not the only one displaying ignorance of matters sexual.

SWL

Placebo wrote: »

in fairness all 'OUR' tax is wasted on 'OUR' people sitting on dole.
seen the stats lately?

Please what a load of BS - hope you don't require state assistance in the coming months,

I feel sorry for some genuine lefties out there the majority of Irish people are considerate, warm hearted and would have genuine understanding for the emotional plight this women faced, and the thanks they received their generosity and understanding has been thrown back in their faces - I would imagine people in Sligo feel a little used and very silly for being so gullible

Once bitten twice shy, future genuine cases will suffer and huge problems for non nationals in this country.

Daroxtar

SWL wrote: »

I would imagine people in Sligo feel a little used and very silly for being so gullible

Once bitten twice shy, future genuine cases will suffer and huge problems for non nationals in this country.

The vast majority of us in sligo never believed a word of it. I reject your claims of gullibility and silliness. Those kind of generalisations are completly yeatsist:D

Dudess

Daroxtar wrote: »

Why not?
If all the external nerve endings are destroyed as previously stated then there will be no sensation on the outside. Therefore the internal nerve endings would be the ones which would need to be stimulated. If you ever had an orgasm you would be aware that there are, according to so called experts at least 2 types of female orgasm, internal and external( we wont go into examples of anal or the rarer cases involving nipple stimulation) While FGM precludes a woman having an external, clitorally stimulated orgasm it does not prevent orgasm due to stimulation of the G spot. I'm not the only one displaying ignorance of matters sexual.

The point is: the pain caused by the procedure (look up how unbelievably horrendous it is) is only going to make sex miserable and pleasure-free - g-spot left behind or no g-spot.

thebman

eh, don't people think that taking of parts of other peoples bodies without their permission is wrong?

Or bullying them into giving permission (not really giving permission in this case) is wrong?

I would have thought it was a given myself.

Daroxtar

Dudess wrote: »

The point is: the pain caused by the procedure (look up how unbelievably horrendous it is) is only going to make sex miserable and pleasure-free - g-spot left behind or no g-spot.

I'd have to disagree. If it was carried out when the child was very young then they would have no recollection of the pain or misery caused. Therefore if in later life they had loving consensual sex and their g spot was properly stimulated there should be no reason why they could not enjoy sex. Its like saying that a person who was sexually abused which is also unbelievably horrendous could never enjoy a sexual relationship again ,which is untrue.

Dudess

It appears you're not fully briefed on what FGM is - the pain isn't just during/immediately after the procedure. It stays with the woman, no matter how young she was when it was carried out - making urinating/sex and, obviously, birth painful experiences each time.
I shudder to think what cystitis must be like for those poor women.

Part of the reason for it is so sex will be uncomfortable for the woman. It's a horrible practice, steeped in misogyny. Plenty of mothers and grandmothers will agree to it being carried out, but only because they are coerced/blinded by tradition.

chughes

Gerry Ryan talked to Philip Boucher Hayes on his radio show this morning and Philip told Gerry that he investigated this case when it first came to light a few years ago. Philip Boucher Hayes says that he interviewed the Nigerian doctor that helped deliver the child when she was born and also dealt with the aftermath of the FGM procedure. The doctor was able to produce his documentation in relation to both events. Apparently, this doctor has since been approached by a member of the Nigerian military and told not to talk to any more Irish radio journalists. It would seem that there is a conspirancy to mislead and maybe we should not be so quick to judge in this case until we have all the facts.

marcsignal

chughes wrote: »

It would seem that there is a conspirancy to mislead and maybe we should not be so quick to judge in this case until we have all the facts.

Good point, so maybe Philip Boucher Hayes could provide us with a Death Certificate? or even a photo of the gravestone??

hardly an impossible task for such an eminent investigative journalist.

Dudess

Why do you WANT her to be guilty?

Sean Quagmire

Dudess wrote: »

Why do you WANT her to be guilty?

Because she's a sammer plain and simple.
send her and her kind back where they belong. lol at the saps holding protest to keep her here. what has done to contibute to this country nothing.

media tried to paint her as a caring mother thats a victim, how wrong they where. boils my blood looking at her.

Dudess

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

Because she's a sammer plain and simple.
send her and her kind back where they belong. lol at the saps holding protest to keep her here. what has done to contibute to this country nothing.

media tried to paint her as a caring mother thats a victim, how wrong they where. boils my blood looking at her.

Oh so you've discovered she's been found guilty?

Or... have you just acted as judge and jury yourself?

Degsy

Dudess wrote: »

Why do you WANT her to be guilty?

In my opinion she is guilty.
I want her to be proved guilty to shut up the tossers who beleive any old nonsense these people spout and call everybody who chooses not to bleive them racists.
Also,the sooner they chuck her out of the country the better,we dont want any precedents being set and even more people chancing thier arms.

BennyLava

The lengths the F.F. PR team will go to to deflect attention from Brian Cowen,

imagine paying a doctor in Nigeria to say a birth cert is fake ,
I feel proud my tax money is been well spent

Dudess

How can a person be guilty because it's someone's opinion they are?

Sean Quagmire

dont need to be a judge for that! she lied about FGM just to stay here playing on the gullible irish people who actually listen to her.
this sort of thing happened in lagos 20 years ago. it very seldom happens now.

she picked something to use as a tool to manipulate others into getting what she wants. she lied. she is scum.

dr.bollocko

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

Because she's a sammer plain and simple.
send her and her kind back where they belong. lol at the saps holding protest to keep her here. what has done to contibute to this country nothing.

media tried to paint her as a caring mother thats a victim, how wrong they where. boils my blood looking at her.

Sammer?

Dudess

Scammer. So anyway yeah, you WANT her to be guilty because you like taking part in witch hunts. Kudos.