Sex offenders to be E_tagged, Good or bad idea? .

Run_to_da_hills

According to the Irish Times the government is considering Etagging sex offenders with electronic bracelets. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...243552402.html

A NEW electronic tagging system for monitoring high-risk sex offenders, including the use of GPS technology, is likely following publication of a report on management of sex offenders from the Department of Justice.

E bracelets although sound like a good solution to an overcrowding prison problem, they could possibly be applied across the board for early parole of other convicts.

E_tagging has its flaws, the devices can be tampered despite any penalties imposed. There is nothing stopping a culprit or prisoner out on parole covering over his electronic bracelet with signal blocking material (Farraday) and then pleading ignorance if quizzed by the authorities of his whereabouts.

I personally disagree with linking electronic tracking devices to humans and where this technology can lead to.

the_syco

Exceelent idea.

KTRIC

I don't think Sniper has any more room left on his ankels. He's all tagged out !!

r3nu4l

I think it's a great idea but it is open to abuse.

Firstly, the offender can block the signal but it should be written into law that should the offender block the signal s/he will immediately be rearrested.

Secondly, the system could be hacked. This is dangerous because then we could have vigilantes dishing out 'preventative' punishments. While I think sex offenders of any sort are scum of the earth I do not believe in vigilante/mob justice.

So while there are potentially great benefits, there are pitfalls and these need to be examined carefully.

techdiver

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I personally disagree with linking electronic tracking devices to humans and where this technology can lead to.

Tagging is an excellent idea. I wouldn't stop there, I would also chemically castrate repeat sex offenders as other countries such as Norway etc are attempting to implement.

The_Minister

I think they should be careful to make sure that the braclet is discreet, so that these prisoners can function in society.

Liam Byrne

The_Minister wrote: »

I think they should be careful to make sure that the braclet is discreet, so that these prisoners can function in society.

...like their victims do, tormented by the memories and the lasting effects ?

Liam Byrne

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I personally disagree with linking electronic tracking devices to humans and where this technology can lead to.

I personally disagree with sex offenders and what that leads to.

They should take what they get, because if brothers/fathers/uncles got hold of them, they probably wouldn't be alive to enjoy walking around with their tagging bracelets.

Not saying the above is acceptable, but it is understandable; and if the law deals with them properly - and harshly enough - then they should be damn grateful that it's the law that dealt with them and not someone else.

Run_to_da_hills

r3nu4l wrote: »

I think it's a great idea but it is open to abuse.
.

I would agree, both abuse from the Authorities and Vigilantes.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Firstly, the offender can block the signal but it should be written into law that should the offender block the signal s/he will immediately be rearrested.
.

This could end up in a cry wolf scenario, if someone was to block their signal regularly and then blame it on "signal strength" the Authorities may end up with cry wolf scenario and may then ignore the culprit. Most of these electronic tracking devices use the same Global Orbcomm satellite navigation system.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Secondly, the system could be hacked. This is dangerous because then we could have vigilantes dishing out 'preventative' punishments. While I think sex offenders of any sort are scum of the earth I do not believe in vigilante/mob justice..

Indeed, hand held scanners can be purchased over the internet and then get into the wrong hands.

r3nu4l wrote: »

So while there are potentially great benefits, there are pitfalls and these need to be examined carefully.

The whole system would need to be monitored by an independent body.

deadhead13

In the the case of high risk sex offenders, I would think their compulsion to re-offend would be greater than their fear of getting caught and facing the concequences. The tags would just be an obstacle for them to get around.

Such offenders should be held indefinitley until they are deemed to no longer pose a threat.

Blangis

How is the bracelet supposed to know when the wearer is molesting a child?

Deedsie

Tag em. Tag em twice to make sure. Would happily vote yes in a referendum to have them castrated. Dont care what it cost us.

Turns my stomach.

murfie

The_Minister wrote: »

I think they should be careful to make sure that the braclet is discreet, so that these prisoners can function in society.

I disagree in the strongest terms possible. So much in fact i suggest the tag should be a collar around the scums neck that when they come close to any locations that kids congregate that the collar will shock them into a incapacitated state!

They don't deserve to function as normal citizens in society, they forfeit that right as soon as they do the disgusting acts on their innocent victims. And its because we allow these people to function in society as you want that it allows them to re-offend without fear of being caught.

Blangis

murfie wrote: »

I disagree in the strongest terms possible. So much in fact i suggest the tag should be a collar around the scums neck that when they come close to any locations that kids congregate that the collar will shock them into a incapacitated state!

They don't deserve to function as normal citizens in society, they forfeit that right as soon as they do the disgusting acts on their innocent victims. And its because we allow these people to function in society as you want that it allows them to re-offend without fear of being caught.

How is the tag supposed to detect the presence or proximity of children? The whole thing is a fatuous idea.

Dr Galen

it'll be linked to GPS or somesuch, which will alert the authorities when they get in the proximity of a school. Much like my in car sat nav beeps when I'm near say a petrol station.

You would imagine that these will be used for sex offenders on parole or release, so that its known where they are etc. Not as an alternative to actual jailtime.

I don't disagree that child abuse is a terrible terrible crime, but lynch mob justice is no justice. It's revenge, and there is a difference between the two.

yoshytoshy

Give them a daily dose of therapy

Blangis

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

it'll be linked to GPS or somesuch, which will alert the authorities when they get in the proximity of a school. Much like my in car sat nav beeps when I'm near say a petrol station.

You would imagine that these will be used for sex offenders on parole or release, so that its known where they are etc. Not as an alternative to actual jailtime.

I don't disagree that child abuse is a terrible terrible crime, but lynch mob justice is no justice. It's revenge, and there is a difference between the two.

Schools are just one place where kids might be, and during the typical schoolday there is probably only a small window of opportunity for abducting a kid - when they are arriving or leaving. And they would probably have to operate at some distance from the school anyway, to avoid all of the parents and teachers.

A pedo could just stay away from schools and focus on all the other places where he might get his hands on an unsupervised child - beaches, parks, clubs, homes, streets, community centres, shops, arcades, etc., etc. All the places where it would be impossible for someone monitoring a blip on a map to know whether or not that blip is in the vicinity of children.

I'm as against pedophiles as anyone else, but these solutions need to be practical. If this were put in place it would turn into another fiasco like the electronic voting machines.

Dr Galen

Blangis wrote: »

If this were put in place it would turn into another fiasco like the electronic voting machines.

quite likely. I'm just teasing out the idea really. wonder if any other countries do this?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Perhaps a chip being implanted like those constraceptive devices would be harder to tamper with.

Another thing they could do would deny them their right to privacy in other areas, phone lines/internet/email accounts. And have a seperate punishment for attempting to get new phones/emails etc.

I know this is really extreme but I just think prison sentences for child molesters are far too short, one of the areas I'd support capital punishment.

Run_to_da_hills

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Perhaps a chip being implanted like those contraceptive devices would be harder to tamper with.

Verichip have developed a tiny GPS implantable microchip and Indonesia had proposed the use of them with sex offenders and those promiscuous with HIV & Aids. The proposal was later dropped. Verichip got the approval of the US FDA in 2004 . http://www.10meters.com/verichip_fda.html

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Another thing they could do would deny them their right to privacy in other areas, phone lines/Internet/email accounts. And have a separate punishment for attempting to get new phones/emails etc..

The South Australian authorities have been given extra powers to track and trace online movements of sex offenders, The culprits must register all email accounts, social network profiles and passwords with the police. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/27/2527659.htm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I know this is really extreme but I just think prison sentences for child molesters are far too short, one of the areas I'd support capital punishment.

I totally disagree with capital punishment, It dose not allow for miscarriages of Justice, (Although with DNA evidence there is less chance of this) I would prefer to see repeat culprits do their full time behind bars rather than be released early under any money saving e_tagging programme.

thebman

I think its a great idea as it will make it easier to place these people near schools etc... when these incidents occur.

If they are blocking it, they should be immediately tracked down and detained over night and can be released with a newly activated bracelet. This would ensure that if they do go off the radar they can be quickly dealt with.

You could also use this in conjunction with CCTV to place them at scenes of crimes.

Run_to_da_hills

thebman wrote: »

I think its a great idea as it will make it easier to place these people near schools etc... when these incidents occur.

If they are blocking it, they should be immediately tracked down and detained over night and can be released with a newly activated bracelet. This would ensure that if they do go off the radar they can be quickly dealt with.

You could also use this in conjunction with CCTV to place them at scenes of crimes.

There are already such things as Rfid based proximity sensor and alert system that can detect E_tagged sex offenders.

The danger of rolling out CCTV is that it will eventually create an Orwellian society for the rest of us, There is enough CCTV at dumps, railway stations, toll plazas, shopping malls etc without having more at public parks etc.

thebman

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There are locations such as schools that are equipped with Rfid based proximity sensor and alert system that can detect E_tagged sex offenders.

The danger of rolling out CCTV is that it will eventually create an Orwellian society for the rest of us, There is enough CCTV at dumps, railway stations, toll plazas, shopping malls etc without having more at public parks etc.

I don't want a police state but it is hard to argue with the benefit of CCTV. The only problem I can see with it is if it is abused. Entrances to parks etc... would be suitable places or along the proximity sensors to activate them if someone is jumping a fence or something to gain entrance to a park so you can identify who it was in case a crime is later committed.

Technology has ways to ensure that we aren't just recording everyone all the time and if only placed in appropriate places then CCTV is no risk to people at all.

livvy

Monitoring the whereabouts of convicted sex offenders can only be a good thing. The sooner the better IMO.

My only reservation - will a piece of metal stop them re-offending? I don't think so. What will - can't answer that one. Any deterrent to re-offend can only be welcomed.

heyjude

Sounds like a terrible idea and one with a million flaws that will undoubtedly be exploited to the maximum by the offenders and their legal representatives.

There are many flaws and loopholes in the use of electronic tagging to monitor released prisoners, many of them were featured in a documentary on one of the British tv channels a few months ago.

But if they were introduced here, my main reservations would be:

a)if hundreds of offenders are to be tagged like this on release, then who is going to be responsible for monitoring these tags 24/7 ? Do we want the gardai to be chasing around after initially hundreds and long term,thousands of ex-prisoners looking for them every time a tag gives off an alarm signal or malfunctions ?

b)Every technology has a failure rate, will these tags be as reliable as the computers on an aircraft/spacecraft or as reliable as a tv remote control ? Reliability costs, but in this case, the technology is supposed to reassure the public that these animals aren't able to attack any more innocent victims, if it fails then the sex offender is not only free to re-offend, but he can use the tag as an alibi

c) Will be penalties for tampering with the tags be severe enough to discourage the offenders or other individuals from rendering the tags inoperable ? For the tagging system to work, the penalties for tampering with the tags must be draconian for the offender and whoever aids in tampering with the tag, the tagged offenders must be supervised rigorously to see whether the tags are being tampered with and the likelihood of being caught if the tag is removed must be high. I suspect though, that the tagging scheme is being proposed, in order to save money and monitoring of tagged offenders will be minimal. Leaving the public with a false sense of security.

An expensive though more effective alternative is to introduce an American style 3 strikes system where serial offenders upon a third conviction aren't released again. That would eventually provide society with 100% protection from individual serial sex offenders, but given that we don't even jail murderers for life, we are always likely to be offered low cost alternatives such as this instead.

As with the ludicrously lenient sentences for murderers, unfortunately, I suspect it will take a high profile victim(i.e. rich/famous or close relative of a VIP) of such a repeat sex offender, in order for the establishment to take the issue seriously and until then, we'll be offered low cost high tech systems, that once implemented will be doomed to failure as they are continually under-funded.

Nuttzz

heyjude wrote: »

Sounds like a terrible idea

I agree it is a terrible idea, we should just shoot the f**kers and save a few quid, not to mention a few kids

villager

The only safe way to monitor these people is to keep them locked up forever. it is the simplest safest way. I would not even waste the money on trying to rehabilitate them.

BrandonFlowers

Blangis wrote: »

How is the bracelet supposed to know when the wearer is molesting a child?

it wouldn't it would let authorities know when a person is somewhere they shouldn't be i.e in a place where children/women/ men are.

most of these people have strict bail conditions about where they can and can't go and this would help in overseeing that.

me_right_one

I think sexual crimes are given such leniant punishments in this country. The question shouldn't be whether to tag offenders or not, it should be whether to execute them or commute their sentence to natural life. This should apply across the board, from repeat peadophiles to pest stalkers. I just cant understand why sentences handed down are so lenient!

Thoie

heyjude wrote: »

An expensive though more effective alternative is to introduce an American style 3 strikes system where serial offenders upon a third conviction aren't released again. That would eventually provide society with 100% protection from individual serial sex offenders, but given that we don't even jail murderers for life, we are always likely to be offered low cost alternatives such as this instead.

I haven't really come across the 3 strikes in terms of sentencing, but my main concern is what do you tell victims 2 and 3? "Don't worry, he's done it before, but now when he does it once more we'll do something"?

By using the tags for other things besides sex offender, you reduce the likelihood of vigilanteism, don't you? So instead of prison for people speeding excessively, tag them as well for 6 months (if your tag shows movement at over 60mph you damned well better be on a plane). That way the vigilantes wouldn't be able to tell who's a sex offender and who drove too fast.

smallBiscuit

thebman wrote: »

I think its a great idea as it will make it easier to place these people near schools etc... when these incidents occur.

If they are blocking it, they should be immediately tracked down and detained over night and can be released with a newly activated bracelet. This would ensure that if they do go off the radar they can be quickly dealt with.

You could also use this in conjunction with CCTV to place them at scenes of crimes.

I don't think you understand how the system works.
A few years ago I used to live in a Council estate, an estate full of children. A sex offender (paedophile) was released from prison on parole, but didn't have a house, co the council put him into our estate.
The council know, since over half the estate were on benefits and claiming every penny they could, how many children lived beside this paedophile. But they put him there anyway. There was an uproar and he wasn't allowed out of his house until he was taken out of the estate by the council.
They never think, you can be sure they wouldn't when releasing these 'things' from prison. But when somebody was raped or abused, they would be very sorry and a full enquiry would be promised. Cold comfort to the victim.

Incidentally, when he was moved, he was placed across the road from a primary school