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Should the government stop interfering in the pensions market ?

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    #62
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    jimmmy wrote: »
    I did use the word "etc" at the end of my "carefully selected list" as you call it. Of course taxes are also paid by bankers, public servants, foreign visitors, multinational companies, students lol lol

    Do you think a Guard retiring at age 55 ( whose pension fund would be worth 1 million if he was to have funded it himself ) has paid that much tax in his lifetime ? There are hundreds of thousands of ex-politicians, government employees etc all getting very generous pensions - who do you think is paying for that ?

    The same people that pay for IDA grants, subsidise low corporation taxes, subsidise students, subsidise the unemployed, various grant schemes. The tax payer. The tax payer is ANYONE is this country who is paying taxes, income, vat, cat, excise, generic tax. Not just private sector workers.....


    If you think being a member of the Gardai is THAT good you should consider joining them. With all these retirements of late there should be plenty jobs there in future.

    Have you started a thread in the economics forum yet?


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    #63
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    kippy wrote: »
    The same people that pay for IDA grants, subsidise low corporation taxes, subsidise students, subsidise the unemployed, various grant schemes. The tax payer. The tax payer is ANYONE is this country who is paying taxes, income, vat, cat, excise, generic tax. Not just private sector workers.....

    Exactly. The taxpayer. Everyone whom tax is collected off and sent to the government. Not just those to whom high govt. pensions are paid ( politicians and public service ) .

    Incidentally, you mention "subsidise low corporation taxes" - how do you think "the same people subsidise low corporation taxes", when our low corporation tax rate is one of the main things which attract foreign multinationals here to Ireland in the first place ? What is your option to
    " subsidising low corporation taxes"?
    kippy wrote: »
    If you think being a member of the Gardai is THAT good you should consider joining them.

    Not everyone is able to join the Gardai, and if everyone in the country did join the Gardai, do you think everyone could then get the same generous pay, security and generous pension / early retirement rights of the Gardai ?

    kippy wrote: »
    Have you started a thread in the economics forum yet?
    Not on this topic, no.

    Have you answered the question yet "Do you think a Guard retiring at age 55 ( whose pension fund would be worth 1 million if he was to have funded it himself ) has paid that much tax in his lifetime ?"


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    #64
    BroomBurner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭BroomBurner


    jimmmy wrote: »
    You were not able to contradict one of the points I made.

    You are obviously one of the lucky " I'm all right Jacks" who has a large government pension - subsidised / funded by others - to look forward to.
    You may even be a politician, still working, on a large pension. Not everyone is as lucky as you.

    Never assume anything about anyone you don't know Jimmmy.

    I'm not bothered to contradict anymore of your edicts, because you are clearly so closed-minded to life not being one big generalisation that fits your narrow view of parts of life you've taken a dislike to.

    As I suggested, if you want facts and figures, take it to the Economics forum. Or better still, use your spare time to work them out for yourself, then post them up here, with all your citations included.


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    #65
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    BroomBurner, you still have not answered the question ( see yesterdays post for the context ): do you think it is fair that those that work hard at their jobs ( and do not get a big pension ) pay towards the pension of those who took more holidays, worked a shorter week, had more job security, and a higher salary ?


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    #66
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    jimmmy wrote: »
    BroomBurner, you still have not answered the question ( see yesterdays post for the context ): do you think it is fair that those that work hard at their jobs ( and do not get a big pension ) pay towards the pension of those who took more holidays, worked a shorter week, had more job security, and a higher salary ?
    Would that not depend on the value of the work they did? I know people who work really hard flipping burgers and they get paid much less than skilled, hard-working people who took more holidays, worked a shorter week, had more job security, and a higher salary.

    You've hijacked your own thread and you still have not put forward a workable pension plan for society.


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    #67
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Exactly. The taxpayer. Everyone whom tax is collected off and sent to the government. Not just those to whom high govt. pensions are paid ( politicians and public service ) .

    Incidentally, you mention "subsidise low corporation taxes" - how do you think "the same people subsidise low corporation taxes", when our low corporation tax rate is one of the main things which attract foreign multinationals here to Ireland in the first place ? What is your option to
    " subsidising low corporation taxes"?


    Not everyone is able to join the Gardai, and if everyone in the country did join the Gardai, do you think everyone could then get the same generous pay, security and generous pension / early retirement rights of the Gardai ?



    Not on this topic, no.

    Have you answered the question yet "Do you think a Guard retiring at age 55 ( whose pension fund would be worth 1 million if he was to have funded it himself ) has paid that much tax in his lifetime ?"
    In relation to the "low corporation tax" I was mearly highlighting how tax payers across the board fund various items. I didnt say they were a bad idea. Low corporation tax is obviously a very good thing for this country.
    I amnt asking everyone the country to join the Gardai, I was just stating that if YOU believe it to be such a good number YOU should consider joining them.

    I really dont understand what you are asking about this particular pension scheme. Are you saying that the Value of the pension is 1 million?

    Either way I dont have a problem with it.
    I have a bigger problem with people b1tching and moaning on an internet message board who cant back up his arguments with fact.
    Again, I suggest you take this to the economics forum where you'll be forced to come up with specifics


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    #68
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    kippy wrote: »
    I amnt asking everyone the country to join the Gardai, I was just stating that if YOU believe it to be such a good number YOU should consider joining them.
    Judging by the lifestyle , pension , holiday homes etc of some Gardai friends I know who retired early, if I was that age again, I would be tempted...
    Problem is, not everyone in the country can be government employees. That sort of thing was tried before in eastern Europe etc.
    kippy wrote: »
    I really dont understand what you are asking about this particular pension scheme. Are you saying that the Value of the pension is 1 million?

    A private person taking early retirement at age 55 would need to have a pension pot that size to provide the same pension as a Guard retiring at that age. It may even be higher now given the mess in the financial markets, compared to the Gaurds guaranteed, worry free pension.

    kippy wrote: »
    Either way I dont have a problem with it.
    If I won the lotto I would not have a problem with that either.

    See the excellent programme on RTE on Thursday night on the Public sector gravy train ? It may open your eyes a bit. Those of us unlucky enough not to have big public sector pensions are not begrudgers, its just that the system is unfair and the country is becoming increasingly unstable.


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    #69
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    jimmmy wrote: »
    See the excellent programme on RTE on Thursday night on the Public sector gravy train
    The only thing that programme excelled in was in distorting the facts, much as you have done. I can see why you must have enjoyed having your prejudices reinforced.

    Your contributions have so far been mostly negative axe-grinding chip-on-the-shoulder swipes at the PS.

    What is your proposal for a fair, equitable and workaple pension plan for all?

    Is it still your position that everyone should figure it out for themselves and that nobody, but nobody should contribute to anyone else's pension?


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    #70
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,599 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Judging by the lifestyle , pension , holiday homes etc of some Gardai friends I know who retired early, if I was that age again, I would be tempted...
    Problem is, not everyone in the country can be government employees. That sort of thing was tried before in eastern Europe etc.



    A private person taking early retirement at age 55 would need to have a pension pot that size to provide the same pension as a Guard retiring at that age. It may even be higher now given the mess in the financial markets, compared to the Gaurds guaranteed, worry free pension.



    If I won the lotto I would not have a problem with that either.

    See the excellent programme on RTE on Thursday night on the Public sector gravy train ? It may open your eyes a bit. Those of us unlucky enough not to have big public sector pensions are not begrudgers, its just that the system is unfair and the country is becoming increasingly unstable.
    Not once did I say that everyone in the country should be a government employee. I simply stated that if YOU believe a certain career is such a handy number and all the benefits that go with it make the job a very "wantable" job, then you should seriously do your best to get into that job. Thats standard practice in life. Some people cant make it into that career for whatever reason....

    Again I have no problems with a worry free pension, none at all in fact.

    Can you explain to me how the system is unfair? We are a democracy, the government voted in make the decisions. If the people dont like then the government dont stay in power. Simple as.

    Again, I believe you would be happy to see everyone earn the same money as everyone else no matter what they did.

    Your figures have been torn assunder on this thread in relation to your pension proposal. Until you start a thread in the economics forum on this matter, where it can be dually scrutinised,this topic is all but dead.


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