soccer ban again yay!

GuanYin

mayordenis.

I'm not for a second interested in your tit for tat with Xavi.

This issue arose from the point of your original ban being overturned and it was more than just Xavi you brought into it with some very personal comments of your own.

The Xavi bitch issue is not for review here and if you want to continue with it, fine, but I have no reason to be here.

When you want to discuss your current ban and the reason for it, let me know.

Xavi6

mayordenis wrote: »

with regards Xavi there's really no point in saying that again it was private and it was personal - something that was completely not made personal by me - it was made personal when via PM I was called a bitch - I honestly don't don't believe you think I was in the wrong here but maybe you do - I was given **** -

Hold on a second. Are you saying you didn't insult me on thread with personal abuse that led to the ban in the first place?

As far as I'm concerned YOU made it personal first by attacking me. The posts are there to prove it and I've no problem digging them out if you so wish.

and I could easily of told Xavi my actual opinion of him and his actions I gave a very fair comment that I though he abused his powers - the first one was as much jokesy as it was gloatish.

You did. You called me a sham and a joker on thread which is what started the whole thing off.

We wouldn't be here if you hadn't resorted to that.

mayordenis

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hold on a second. Are you saying you didn't insult me on thread with personal abuse that led to the ban in the first place?

As far as I'm concerned YOU made it personal first by attacking me. The posts are there to prove it and I've no problem digging them out if you so wish.


You did. You called me a sham and a joker on thread which is what started the whole thing off.

We wouldn't be here if you hadn't resorted to that.

I didn't call you a sham I said your argument was a sham, and I called you a joker - nobody in there right mind could see that as abuse - it isn't simple as.
Infact even with it beinf rescinded you have never said it was a mistake in judgment.

Xavi6

mayordenis wrote: »

I didn't call you a sham I said your argument was a sham,

Really?

mayordenis wrote: »

grow up, you have Ireland ahead of Gerrard and you have the gaule to question anyone else, There's one sham in this thread and it's definately not Aurelio.

Explain that then.

and I called you a joker - nobody in there right mind could see that as abuse - it isn't simple as.

It's attacking the poster, not the post, so therefore is in breach of the charter.

Beruthiel

BuffyBot wrote: »

mayordenis - I think the bigger issue here is that you responded in a way that was only likely to inflame the circumstance further. Whether or not the soccer mods took the correct action has now become a secondary issue because you decided to take an action that "sank" to the level you percieved them to be at.

If a user on your forum did that to you, I can imagine you'ld be annoyed to. There is no reason the soccer mods would be any different. The way you reacted to this *was* your fault. You could have taken any moral highground that there is here by going "fair enough, yellow card it is". You didn't do that.

As a collective, they've reconsidered the original ban, which I think was the correct course of action. Now because you reacted in such a way, they've imposed a much greater penalty. Personally, I think it's a little harsh, but I can understand why they've taken the step they have considering your previous history.

I think you need to think about your actions here.

See what Buffy wrote there?
Read it again.

Just because you continue posting on this thread doesn't change any of the above.

IMO nobody is coming out of this smelling of roses and to continue further with your petty tit for tat is helping neither of you at this point.

mayordenis

Fair enough Beruthiel, I'll draw a line under the argument with Xavi6. I have read everything BuffyBot has wrote and taken it in - That does not however mean I in anyway believe I have been treated with anything resembling fairness or respect.

You can call it petty if you want, probably just to have another dig at me, which seems to be the flavour of the moment - but it's not a small matter to me, it's something quite important, and I will keep posting until I believe there is a resolution tabled that is acceptable.

In life or on the internets, being treated with fairness and respect is vital - the institution of Boards has been let down here in a bad way.

therecklessone

Sorry for dipping back into this.

mayordenis wrote: »

You can call it petty if you want, probably just to have another dig at me

Denis, you do yourself no favours there, and you do a great disservice to Beruthiel. The SMods role here is to listen to your complaint, decide if action is required, and do what is necessary to achieve the desired outcome. They're not here to have a pop at you, and TBH that reply suggests to me that you're not thinking clearly before posting your replies. It might be worth your while taking a break from this discussion for a day or two before you continue, that's just a friendly bit of advice, no malice intended.

I believe BuffyBot has given you excellent advice, with a couple of very salient points. You may have read his posts in full, but I don't think they have sunk in yet.

I'd just like to point one other thing out if I may? You've been complimentary towards me in my role, and I appreciate that. It might surprise you to know that when the time came to review the ban I had handed you, it was Xavi6 who was most vocal in your defence. It might also surprise you to know that it was GuanYin who reminded me that you were perfectly entitled to take a complaint you had to Feedback or Help Desk if you wished (I had expressed disappointment that you'd chosen to pursue this complaint publically while also PMing us for a review), and I honestly believe her PM to you was simply to let you know that the process would take time because you had chosen to pursue the claim in that manner.

I'm not sure exactly why I'm telling you that, maybe it might lead you to have a rethink about the two individuals, which might help you have a look at this whole incident in a new light. I agree with Beruthiel, it's best to draw a line under your dispute with Xavi6, but I certainly see no reason to blame GuanYin for her PM. If your criticism should be laid upon anyone, it should be on me for my comments which promoted her to PM you in the first place.

mayordenis

Ugh I'm in work, which is bad enough when the ireland match is on without being banished from the soccer forum.

Could I get clarification on the 6 yellow cards that have led to this ban please?

mayordenis

Sorry for the double post - but if I could get the exact breakdown of the 6 yellow cards taht equated to 6 months that would be great, I know it was mentioned in the first page, but it was just a little vague - so just for my own head I'd love that info.

Denis

GuanYin

You received a yellow card from me for an aggressive post to Boggles.

You received one for your joker/sham post that led to this

You received a red for your response to therecklessone abusing me

You received a red for your trolling post to Xavi.

ultimately the two red cards put you over, the limit.

mayordenis

Ahh the boggle post was the one throwing me off
fair enough, still disagree with the whole shebang but it's not going to be changed by looks of it.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Ahh the boggle post was the one throwing me off
fair enough, still disagree with the whole shebang but it's not going to be changed by looks of it.

You disagree with what?

You honestly think that your reaction to your unbanning was justified?

You think that it is fair to aim abuse, mild or not, at moderators because they don't react how you like?

You think that your withholding of facts here and mis-representation of information was a clever move?

Really, if you want any movement, you are going to need to readjust your thinking, attitude and convince me that it won't happen again.

mayordenis

In hind sight I could of conducted myself better sure, but I still feel personally I had a point. It was most likely the wrong way to go about making that point.

It wasn't really abuse in my eyes, and not just a reaction that I like but more so I read a tone of dismissal in the PM which came across as arrogant in your PM which I'll admit I misconstrued - this is about the only thing I will hold my hands up on. As you know the persons tone is often hard to gauge through text - likewise you misconstrued my attempt at sarcasm earlier in the thread.

I don't think I withheld any facts, or mis-represented anything - just said my view on things, you have to remember on my side of the fence there is me and me alone, on your side of the fence there are several people holding an opinion the same as yours.

I probably can't convince you of that - Bar the minor details above I still think I got mostly the short end of the stick.

Like without getting into the debate on whether any abuse howeve minor or not is acceptable (I guess overall it's not regardless), here is the overall abuse I used - (sorry if this seems out of context, I will admit most of this was delivered in a passive agressive manner also)

Sham
Joker
Egomaniac

then just reasonably mild taunting ala the PM's sent to one Xavi.

Maybe I should realise it was more my attitude than the actual words used that has earned me the ban though.

GuanYin

mayordenis wrote: »

Maybe I should realise it was more my attitude than the actual words used that has earned me the ban though.

It was exactly your attitude than your words.

Noone here is paid to mod. We make mistakes, as do you.

Xavi admitted his mistake in banning you by reversing the ban. I haven't seen a similar admission in your taunting and trolling of him.

At the end of the day, on boards.ie most mods take the view that provocation is not an excuse for reaction. It's in the soccer charter.

You have a choice you can have faith in the system which had served you well or you can retaliate. Once you take option two, you've lost.

I have a resolution for this in mind, but I'm not pushing anything forward until I discuss it with co-mods and see some consideration from you.

Many will take the view that an apology to get back into a forum is hollow, so that isn't want I want.

This is helpdesk, so tell me how you expected your responses to be dealt with and what you think is reasonable and why.

mayordenis

To be honest I wasn't thinking of the any aftermath - got unbanned and had a go at him - I though at most there would be some to'ing and fro'ing with probably a few more PM's and then we'd both draw a line under it.

I think without coming full circle I have shown already a certain level of regret - your point is fair that provocation not being an excuse for reaction, it's something I have some amount of difficulty with but can accept.

I also appreciate not asking for an outright apology - because I'm not trying to be snotty here, just honest, I'm not going to turn around and say that I'm completely sorry because I felt harshly treated and I reacted pretty poorly. But there is still a background voice in my mind that with acceptance that I broke the rules - that the rules are somewhat inherently broken themselves.

GuanYin

Ok.

I'm going to be honest.

My intention was to see if you had actually learned anything from this and if so reduce one red from my PM to a yellow, give you a month ban and leave you on 5 yellows.

However, I have just been directed to these two posts.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59654839&postcount=54

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59654922&postcount=57

and now I don't believe you have any intention of drawing a line under your grudge.

I'm not going to make this call, because I'm honestly angry at those posts and I can't make a fair call when I'm angry.

SMODs, if you could give me your input - I'll take your call on this and then I think you can close the thread, I have nothing more to say to mayordenis right now.

mayordenis

GuanYin wrote: »

I'm not going to make this call, because I'm honestly angry at those posts and I can't make a fair call when I'm angry.

fair enough they were made with thongue very much in cheek - I don't think I said anything controversial there - was really kidding. I can't see anything to make you angry there.

I'm not going to go and kick anyone or have a go at anyone - and If I turned up and played for the poker team which I can't see happening cause they don't want me - I think everyone on both sides would of had a laugh about it.

mayordenis

Actually I don't want to get worked up about this but what I said in the poker forum joking with a few people - I've even talked to frisbee seperatly - it should still have no baring on this process - I think that's a bit out of line.
I like this that if xavi read that he wasn't offended and wasn't in any way taking it to heart like I'm after him with a machete or something.

mayordenis

Right I've been told that the soccer mods are "out" of this one, fair enough I've irked them with my little bit of banter on another forum,
Now if any Smod thinks what happened above is in any way my fault I would love to know, grand I might have done a job on just keeping my mouth shut - I was asked a question I gave an answer and I was just having a laugh and a situation that could do with a few laughs.

Now seriously I really do think this has gone beyond the original debate - I think Some mods actually just have a problem with me and are being completely skewed in there decision making, half of me things the above was all orchastrated to just make me believe this was coming to a resolution and then turning it around based on something on another forum that has nothing to do with any of this.
It seems completely disingenuous to happen upon some comments made well over a day ago at this very convenient time.

I was just about willing to let this go but now, no way. Absolutely not.

Whats wrong with anything I posted in the poker forum? I'm not getting on with the mods, that's pretty ****ing obvious if you ask me. If I had of had a go at someone fair enough but I certainly did not.

Gordon

mayordenis wrote: »

fair enough they were made with thongue very much in cheek - I don't think I said anything controversial there - was really kidding. I can't see anything to make you angry there.

I got the sarcasm earlier, but I didn't get the fact that your tongue was in your cheek this time.

mayordenis wrote: »

Actually I don't want to get worked up about this but what I said in the poker forum joking with a few people - I've even talked to frisbee seperatly - it should still have no baring on this process - I think that's a bit out of line.

I'll point out something you wrote earlier:

In life or on the internets, being treated with fairness and respect is vital

I don't think you had that in mind when posting what you did in poker.

mayordenis wrote: »

Right I've been told that the soccer mods are "out" of this one, fair enough I've irked them with my little bit of banter on another forum,
Now if any Smod thinks what happened above is in any way my fault I would love to know, grand I might have done a job on just keeping my mouth shut - I was asked a question I gave an answer and I was just having a laugh and a situation that could do with a few laughs.

After all that, if I was the soccer mod I wouldn't be letting you back in for a long time.

Now seriously I really do think this has gone beyond the original debate - I think Some mods actually just have a problem with me and are being completely skewed in there decision making, half of me things the above was all orchastrated to just make me believe this was coming to a resolution and then turning it around based on something on another forum that has nothing to do with any of this.
It seems completely disingenuous to happen upon some comments made well over a day ago at this very convenient time.

Not getting into what the other half of you thinks about this, but your judgement should take into account the sum and whole of what you think about this, not just half of what you think about something. All of it.

I was just about willing to let this go but now, no way. Absolutely not.

Whats wrong with anything I posted in the poker forum? I'm not getting on with the mods, that's pretty ****ing obvious if you ask me. If I had of had a go at someone fair enough but I certainly did not.

You were threatening to do a bit of gowling and mess about and, sure who knows, bring the police and firetrucks. In my opinion you were threatening something, there was an air of ambiguity about what exactly you were going to do but one could extrapolate you 'having a go'. So, fair enough, someone could construe it as - you wanted to have a go at someone. You agree yourself that it wouldn't be on if you were having a go, you agree that you would be in the wrong if that was the case, well, it is the case. And the case is closed for me.

Beruthiel

I am in total agreement with Gordons comments above.

mayordenis

That's ridiculous, how dare you accuse me of threatening anyone - I categorically have not made any threat nor would I. Grand case closed. I hate having to bite my lip on this - so frustrating that the lot of ye are in cahoots.

mayordenis

Gordon wrote: »

I'll point out something you wrote earlier:

Who exactly did I not treat with respect? You're just making up things to suit your argument. unbelievable.

It's a fact that I have had a disagreement with the Mod Team - if called them dickheads or something grand - but I said I didn't want to play on a team with them - so ****ing what?

mayordenis

So no response to who I was threatening? That was a ridiculous thing to accuse me of, at least have the bravery to tell me who exactly I was threatening or where I made a threat.

Other than that it's completely unacceptable to accuse somebody of threatening people.

Beruthiel

There's a time to know when to quit....

Gordon

Gordon wrote: »

You were threatening to do a bit of gowling and mess about and, sure who knows, bring the police and firetrucks.

mayordenis wrote: »

That's ridiculous, how dare you accuse me of threatening anyone - I categorically have not made any threat nor would I.

This is what made me think you were threatening to do a bit of gowling and mess about that would cause a scene:

mayordenis wrote: »

not expecting a game mate, only a bit of gowling really, but if I can get a change to call a few of them shams and jokers in real life, I can only imagine the scenes, police and army for a start.

The way I read that was imagining you turning up and causing hassle by calling them a sham and a joker. The fact that you were expecting it implies that you were intending to create the gowling and name calling.

mayordenis

Gordon wrote: »

This is what made me think you were threatening to do a bit of gowling and mess about that would cause a scene:

The way I read that was imagining you turning up and causing hassle by calling them a sham and a joker. The fact that you were expecting it implies that you were intending to create the gowling and name calling.

Do you actually know what gowling is?
Gowling, messing around, kidding that sort of thing, I can't believe that I have to just accept being accused of making threats because you can't even see past that.
I can tell you for a fact that nothing out of the ordinary would happen if I was to attend that game, You know that most people in the real world would be able to have a laugh about all this?
The point were I mentioned expecting the Army etc. to be there should of been enough to show something as a joke, but no. Some mods just have there prerogatives.

I have actually met these people, and down to a person they are all dead on, great bunch, I think they would get the little joke, something I can't say for any of the mods involved in this, which is a sad state of affairs.
Would of been a bit of banter potentially and thats all, no guns drawn, no law suit for a boards event, just a little craic, well and truely ruined by a select few.

mayordenis

Gordon - I'm still entirely unhappy with you accusing me publically of threatening people.
I can't let that slide. Are you still happy to stand over that accusation?

I've not posted about this for over a week, all the people involved in this deserved me to have a good think about it, I have done that.
It's still quite an injustice overall that no longer can someone make a joke on boards without being shut out.

BuffyBot

I'm not sure what there is to "stand over". You made what sounded like a threat to us, then you say you were "joking". You do realise that "jokes" don't always translate well on the Internet? In light of the circumstances, I'd consider that joke to have a possibility of being a threat also.

If you write something, even as a "joke", you have to take ownership of it. That includes the possibility that it may not come across that way to others.

This thread has a limited shelf-life, tbh

Beruthiel

BuffyBot wrote: »

I'd consider that joke to have a possibility of being a threat also.

I also read it the exact same way.

This thread has a limited shelf-life, tbh

Which was about two weeks ago.