Booing your team

Mr Alan

In my opinion, there is virtually no point when it is acceptable to boo your team of the pitch. But it is embarrasing the frequency with which it happens now.

Obviously, reason i am posting this is cause Ireland just got booed off the pitch following a 1-1 draw with Bulgaria. Em, last i heard Bulgaria were a better team than us? am i wrong? last i heard we were doing very well in our group so far?

don't give me, "we're in a recession, you can boo if you pay, its your RIGHT", that is a crock of ****, anyone going to the game tonight should know we are not very good....we actually got a result against a team that is better than us tonight?! wtf?! its not as if players werent trying, they just arent that good!

if you go to a match with the intention of booing a team because they dont dominate a team that they are actually not as good as, you are genuinely soft in the ****ing head.

Idiots.

Here is an article from Brian Reade about the boo-ing epidemic that is spreading through our game.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2009/03/21/why-terrace-boo-boys-should-allow-young-stars-to-learn-trade-in-peace-by-brian-reade-115875-21215355/

Whenever I lose my rag with someone much younger than me I instantly feel bad.

It happens with my kids all the time. I curse myself and try to make it up to them. It's a natural reaction, unless you're one of football's boomerchants, who have been in fine voice lately, singling out young scapegoats and slaughtering them for not performing to the standard their entrance fee demands.

And rather than feel bad about jeering the lad's every poor touch or applauding his substitition, they've been defending themselves in the media.

You've heard it: "I fork out hard-earned cash... they earn millions... they are so aloof from us these days it's our only chance to tell them how we feel." Oh dear.

These are some of players who have been getting hammered by their own fans over the past few weeks: Arsenal's Nicklas Bendtner, Aston Villa's Gabby Agbonlahor, Liverpool's Lucas Leiva, and everyone in Middlesbrough's team apart from Tuncay.

Bendtner is 21, Agbonlahor and Leiva are 22, and the Boro players are mostly local lads learning their trade (a point their fans love to brag about when it suits them).

The average age of a Premier League season-ticket holder is 44 years.

Which means, in all probability, the person doing the booing is twice the age of the one who's taking it.

Veteran match-goers jumping on the backs of inexperienced players, who are trying their best for the cause.

We're not talking about cynical old cart-horses seeing out their days or mercenaries living off a long-gone reputation, but honest lads whose managers believe in them, pulling their tripe out to hold down a place.


Agbonlahor has had a superb season but being forced to lead the line single-handedly for long periods has taken its toll. As Lucas showed at Old Trafford, given the chance, he could develop into a valuable Ronnie Whelan-type gem, and Bendtner may not be Thierry Henry but he's run himself into the ground in the absence of injured fellow strikers.

Yet that's not good enough for some of the sheep who want to impress the sheep next to them by destroying the confidence of the latest hate figure.

It costs nearer forty quid than four to watch a game these days, but does that give fans the right to wage hate campaigns against young players when they're struggling?

It didn't happen in the 70s or 80s. The average fan was younger, less cynical and more tolerant back then.

Players got stick from the terraces and they could hear it too. But it came from individuals and plenty of players answered back.

Maybe in this age of fantasy leagues, website forums and phone-ins, some fans genuinely believe they know more about players than the manager and feel it's their duty to let him know.

Maybe they have seen too many TV talent shows, where the viewers' role is to vote off the worst performer, and started to apply the principle to their football team.

If so I've a suggestion. Why doesn't every PA announcer, after he's read the teams out, add the following: "And remember folks, this week we're NOT asking you to vote for the person you want off, but the person you want to stay."

Alternatively grown men could remember how hard it was learning their own trade. And get a life.

IMO, supporters/fans don't ****ing boo except in the most extremem circumstances (& i mean proper extreme). not a ****ing draw, or a poor performance.

DSB

Wholeheartedly agreed, but you're not dealing with real football fans here in the first place. Fans who go to 2 or 3 games a year and don't really have a clue how actual fans act at a football match and just get caught up in the emotion.

keane2097

I don't agree that it's unacceptable for a supporter to boo their team. There isn't any forum where the supporter gets the opportunity to articulate their opinions about a team's performance to the powers that be in their team, I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to use the only stage on which they have to show their disapproval of goings-on on the pitch.

DSB

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't agree that it's unacceptable for a supporter to boo their team. There isn't any forum where the supporter gets the opportunity to articulate their opinions about a team's performance to the powers that be in their team, I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to use the only stage on which they have to show their disapproval of goings-on on the pitch.

Being a football fan is about taking the good days with the bad. As long as the team gives 100% they should never be booed.

bohsman

Theres a time and a place for it. Liverpool and Ireland booing their players off recently werent among them. But when players are giving zero effort Im happy to let them the manager and the board know that its not good enough. Its only extreme circumstances tho, certainly happening too much these days. Ive always prefered the idea of the white handkerchiefs being waved like in Barcelona when the coach has to go.

Thanx 4 The Fish

And if they do not give 100%?

GLaDOS

The point of supporting the teams is to, em, support.

In conclusion, booing your own team is idiotic.

keane2097

DSB wrote: »

Being a football fan is about taking the good days with the bad. As long as the team gives 100% they should never be booed.

It's not true that it's always the players being booed though. Often times, like at Newcastle, it's affairs off the field that the fans are venting their displeasure over. In the Ireland game tonight I'd imagine it's some of the management's decisions that are causing the aggro leading to the booing also, I doubt it was a lack of endeavor by the players that people were booing.

I don't buy this idea that fans should just plod along like sheep and pretend to be happy no matter what. It's obnoxious, as is this idea that people should settle for bad times along with good. You're supposed to be pissed off when things are crap, and if the reason is something as bad as a Mike Ashley character running your club into the ground, or a Trappatoni character picking shiite players who can't put their foot on the ball you're well entitled to voice your displeasure in the only way you have available to you imo.

CiaranC

The overwhemling majority of the fans in Landsdowne tonight are used to watching teams on the TV which win 80-90% of their games. They have no concept of losing and become confused.

keane2097

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The point of supporting the teams is to, em, support.

In conclusion, booing your own team is idiotic.

Care to make any actual point?

DSB

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

And if they do not give 100%?

If a player is clearly out to just collect a wage, then fair enough, I'd advocate it I suppose, but really really sparingly. Only for your players where its blatantly obvious they couldn't care less about the shirt they play for, and never for the whole team, because what does that to do the morale of the players who have given it their all and possibly just had a bad game, or maybe aren't good enough for the level they're playing at.

therecklessone

What tickles me pink is the fact that so often the booers are the same people who demand unwavering loyalty from players towards their club/country but are also happy to cast that aside when it suits.

As a Spurs fan I'm probably more aware than most of the feeling of betrayal when a former favourite walks out on the club, but it amazes me to see individuals who do wear the shirt getting grief from our own fans, and plenty happy to see "failures" shown the door.

Football fans can be infuriatingly inconsistent.

DSB

keane2097 wrote: »

It's not true that it's always the players being booed though. Often times, like at Newcastle, it's affairs off the field that the fans are venting their displeasure over. In the Ireland game tonight I'd imagine it's some of the management's decisions that are causing the aggro leading to the booing also, I doubt it was a lack of endeavor by the players that people were booing.

I don't buy this idea that fans should just plod along like sheep and pretend to be happy no matter what. It's obnoxious, as is this idea that people should settle for bad times along with good. You're supposed to be pissed off when things are crap, and if the reason is something as bad as a Mike Ashley character running your club into the ground, or a Trappatoni character picking shiite players who can't put their foot on the ball you're well entitled to voice your displeasure in the only way you have available to you imo.

Yeah like the board aren't going to assume the fans are just booing the players anyway. If you want to voice your displeasure at the board, there are better ways of doing it, fans protest at things all the time. But booing players will never achieve anything.

RasTa

It just shows how fickle some fans are when Liverpool drew with Stoke or someone at home at half of Anfield booed them off the pitch even though they went to the top of the league.

I go to a few Premiership games a year and some of the crap outta the so called supporters anoys me. It's like they think the players personally owe them something.

I fcukin hate booing.

England fans were booing Lampard today albeit not many of them.

Sure even Giggs was booed by united "fans" a few years back.

Mr.Nice Guy

I wouldn't have booed personally but I do not begrudge anyone who did. If I paid €70 to watch that tosh I'd be pissed off.

If fans keep their mouths shut and applaud a team that isn't doing its utmost (on or off the field) then how are the top brass to know what the people really think?

Reminds me of when politicians these days urge people not to get upset at the economy and try and get behind one another.

'Come on we need your support not criticism' etc.

Well no I disagree with that mentality because we are partly in the economic mess we are in due to the incompetence of politicians so people have a right to feel aggrieved at that, and similarly tonight people are entitled to their opinions on the poor Irish effort. If they think that performance was substandard (and I wouldn't disagree) then I have no problem with them expressing that view.

DSB

What manager actually cares what the people think when picking his team? The average football fan has very limited knowledge and would make a terrible football manager. And if he doesn't do it well, its not as if hes going to get long in the job anyway, in this day and age. No need for fans to go destroying player morale.

Mr Alan

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If fans keep their mouths shut and applaud a team that isn't doing its utmost (on or off the field) then how are the top brass to know what the people really think?

This is what i mean. Do you think that the players tonight were trying their best?

i think they were, and they just aren't that good.

Podge2k7

I agree with you 100% MrAlan.!

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is what i mean. Do you think that the players tonight were trying their best?

i think they were, and they just aren't that good.

I agree with you that the players did try and as I say wouldn't have booed them personally but I think if a fan wants to boo it's a legitimate form of expression. Perhaps the booing was aimed at Trapattoni for his lack of ideas? (In my view would have been fair)

Guy:Incognito

Why is it ok to shw your appreciation for a job well done by cheering but your not allowed show your dissapointment with a bad result/lack of effort/bad managerial decisions (or lack of decisions)?

DSB

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I agree with you that the players did try and as I say wouldn't have booed them personally but I think if a fan wants to boo it's a legitimate form of expression. Perhaps the booing was aimed at Trapattoni for his lack of ideas? (In my view would have been fair)

Why is it fair to boo someone for their perceived inabilities? Its stuff like that has turned poor Steve Staunton into an object of national ridicule.

DSB

Stekelly wrote: »

Why is it ok to shw your appreciation for a job well done by cheering but your not allowed show your dissapointment with a bad result/lack of effort?

Well its in the term supporter isnt it? If you view yourself as a football critic fair enough, but if you're a football supporter, take the good with the bad.

Guy:Incognito

DSB wrote: »

Well its in the term supporter isnt it? If you view yourself as a football critic fair enough, but if you're a football supporter, take the good with the bad.

Yes but you take the good by cheering, there is acope in there for the other side of the coin too.

Blind faith is worse tbh.

Mr Alan

its the equivalent of going to gig of a band that you know are ****e, and then shouting abuse at them throughout the gig....you're within your rights to do it. but you're still an arsehole for doing it.

anyone who went to the game tonight, should know we arent very good.

DSB

Stekelly wrote: »

Yes but you take the good by cheering, there is acope in there for the other side of the coin too.

Blind faith is worse tbh.

The other side of the coin is the pain you feel when your side loses. Supporting a club is about blind faith. Otherwise we'd all support the best team. But thats not a notion the typical Irish football fan understands.

Guy:Incognito

Mr Alan wrote: »

its the equivalent of going to gig of a band that you know are ****e, and then shouting abuse at them throughout the gig....you're within your rights to do it. but you're still an arsehole for doing it.

anyone who went to the game tonight, should know we arent very good.

If a band give a sub par performance or are obviously just going through the motions and dont give a ****. Thats not value for money and booing is perfectly acceptable.

Guy:Incognito

DSB wrote: »

The other side of the coin is the pain you feel when your side loses. Supporting a club is about blind faith. Otherwise we'd all support the best team. But thats not a notion the typical Irish football fan understands.

Supporting a club is absolutely not about blind faith., be it voicing your displeasure here or anywhere else.

DSB

Stekelly wrote: »

If a band give a sub par performance or are obviously just going through the motions and dont give a ****. Thats not value for money and booing is perfectly acceptable.

Why not just not go to their gigs anymore? Lets imagine you work for Coca-Cola, as head of production, and I love Coca-Cola, I'm not going to boo you because Coca-Cola stops tasting nice. I'll just stop buying Coca-Cola. If its something like football where I've an emotional attachment, and I don't go to football matches specifically to be entertained, I'll grin and bear it, because I love that football club, and know that nothing I say or do would change anything anyway.

Mr Alan

Stekelly wrote: »

If a band give a sub par performance or are obviously just going through the motions and dont give a ****.

Irelands performance tonight was level par for me tonight, we played to our ability & got a draw against a good team. nearly scraping the win.

DSB

Stekelly wrote: »

Supporting a club is absolutely not about blind faith

Oh but it is, you'll always support that club, even if they're bottom of the bottom tier of the league.

Mr.Nice Guy

DSB wrote: »

Why is it fair to boo someone for their perceived inabilities? Its stuff like that has turned poor Steve Staunton into an object of national ridicule.

Mate, it's stuff like that which forced the FAI to get rid of Staunton. If there had been no booing of the team's performances at the time then he could very well still be our manager.

DSB

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Mate, it's stuff like that which forced the FAI to get rid of Staunton. If there had been no booing of the team's performances at the time then he could very well still be our manager.

No I'm pretty sure he'd have been gone regardless. There are a million better mediums for expressing opinions than booing the players who've probably given their all.

Guy:Incognito

DSB wrote: »

Why not just not go to their gigs anymore? .

If you buy somehting and it doesnt work, do you bring it back and tell the shop your not pleased or would you go out and buy it again?

DSB

Stekelly wrote: »

If you buy somehting and it doesnt work, do you bring it back and tell the shop your not pleased or would you go out and buy it again?

I bring it back. But I don't view my football club as a product. And I don't go to see my football club expecting to be entertained. I certainly wouldn't support Shels if I did.

Guy:Incognito

DSB wrote: »

I bring it back. But I don't view my football club as a product. And I don't go to see my football club expecting to be entertained. I certainly wouldn't support Shels if I did.

So you'd put up with Shels players sauntering around the pitch and just turning up for the paycheque, knowing your money is going in to their pockets when they're not putting in the effort? al the while clappign away because they are your team? Bollocks to that.

If someone is taking the piss or not trying as hard as they can, they should be told it's not acceptable

Mr.Nice Guy

DSB wrote: »

No I'm pretty sure he'd have been gone regardless. There are a million better mediums for expressing opinions than booing the players who've probably given their all.

I disagree. I don't think the FAI would have acted to remove Staunton if the fans would have kept politely applauding the team's shambolic efforts. It took fan pressure and the assistance of the likes of Dunphy and Giles to end that miserable period. In that respect the booing had a productive effect.

DSB

Stekelly wrote: »

So you'd put up with Shels players sauntering around the pitch and just turning up for the paycheque, knowing your money is going in to their pockets when they're not putting in the effort? al the while clappign away because they are your team? Bollocks to that.

If someone is taking the piss or not trying as hard as they can, they should be told it's not acceptable

Nah if I felt the team as a collective weren't arsed I wouldn't go. There were 1 or 2 players last season who did that though. No I didn't boo them, just waited for the manager to rectify it, and thankfully he did. If the manager doesn't and results don't follow, a new manager will be soon to follow.

DSB

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I disagree. I don't think the FAI would have acted to remove Staunton if the fans would have kept politely applauding the team's shambolic efforts. It took fan pressure and the assistance of the likes of Dunphy and Giles to end that miserable period. In that respect the booing had a productive effect.

I never mentioned applauding for the sake of it. Silence is grand.

Epic Tissue

All boo-ing is stupid

Guy:Incognito

Epic Tissue wrote: »

All boo-ing is stupid

All clapping like monkeys to a team of retards is stupid

Mr.Nice Guy

DSB wrote: »

I never mentioned applauding for the sake of it. Silence is grand.

There's not much of a difference though really, is there? I mean that would just be perceived as a 'silent protest' and that's essentially what booing is, a form of protest.

If people feel the need to protest a poor performance then I think they might as well, and they might as well do it as loud as their anger and disgust compels them to!

DSB

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

There's not much of a difference though really, is there? I mean that would just be perceived as a 'silent protest' and that's essentially what booing is, a form of protest.

If people feel the need to protest a poor performance then I think they might as well, and they might as well do it as loud as their anger and disgust compels them to!

Theres a massive difference between silence and abuse, and I'm surprised you can't see it. I agree that theres no need to treat players like they've done a great job if they haven't but theres no need to hassle them over it, especially since half the time people think they've put no effort in, they've actually just had a terrible game, or aren't actually that good.

keane2097

DSB wrote: »

Theres a massive difference between silence and abuse, and I'm surprised you can't see it. I agree that theres no need to treat players like they've done a great job if they haven't but theres no need to hassle them over it, especially since half the time people think they've put no effort in, they've actually just had a terrible game, or aren't actually that good.

Again, you're arguing around the point a lot of people are making, in that booing is the most accessible form of protest, not abuse, for a great many supporters. It is not a given that it is directed at the players. Please don't patronise the players by thinking they aren't intelligent enough to understand that it isn't always directed at them.

Tonight for example, I would say with a very high degree of certainty that the efforts of the players was not being booed, rather that the manager is letting personal problems with players stop him from picking the best possible team. Booing, while not particularly eloquent, is certainly a valid form of expression of these sentiments imo.

Please name some of the "millions of better ways" by the way...

DSB

keane2097 wrote: »

Again, you're arguing around the point a lot of people are making, in that booing is the most accessible form of protest, not abuse, for a great many supporters. It is not a given that it is directed at the players. Please don't patronise the players by thinking they aren't intelligent enough to understand that it isn't always directed at them.

Tonight for example, I would say with a very high degree of certainty that the efforts of the players was not being booed, rather that the manager is letting personal problems with players stop him from picking the best possible team. Booing, while not particularly eloquent, is certainly a valid form of expression of these sentiments imo.

Please name some of the "millions of better ways" by the way...

I'd say they thought it was directed at them, honestly. Because I'd also say its true that alot of it was.

Other ways include fan forums, that most clubs have, I think national teams do the same. Lack of enthusiasm from the fans and poor attendances are also excellent ways of letting the board know.

keane2097

DSB wrote: »

Why not just not go to their gigs anymore? Lets imagine you work for Coca-Cola, as head of production, and I love Coca-Cola, I'm not going to boo you because Coca-Cola stops tasting nice. I'll just stop buying Coca-Cola.

DSB wrote: »

Nah if I felt the team as a collective weren't arsed I wouldn't go.

DSB wrote:

Lack of enthusiasm from the fans and poor attendances are also excellent ways of letting the board know.

I can't understand how abandoning your team can be seen as so much more an acceptable reaction than expressing your dissatisfaction passionately from the stands.

Apathy > Passion? I really don't agree with that at all.

Fair enough if you think it's better, but I can't understand how you could think it's that much better.

johnp

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't agree that it's unacceptable for a supporter to boo their team. There isn't any forum where the supporter gets the opportunity to articulate their opinions about a team's performance to the powers that be in their team, I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to use the only stage on which they have to show their disapproval of goings-on on the pitch.

Cannot agree at all for two reasons.
One, you go to the game to support your team, you being a supporter. Through thick and thin you support them. If we're the crappest team on the planet you still support them. Whether you play like Brazil or Wimbledon you support them. Why would you spend 50 or 70 (or whatever) to boo your team and country? Where the satisfaction in that? Why bother?
And two, booing is a pointless exercise. The guys on the pitch are more qualified to know how they are doing, and you'd certainly like to think that they know they're not playing well. So if you boo all your doing is alienating them.

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The point of supporting the teams is to, em, support.

In conclusion, booing your own team is idiotic.

Spot on.








At the Georgia game, we went one down after a couple of minutes, some "person" behind him started going mental, kicking seats, shouting, booing, giving out..... you get the idea. We got a goal back, didn't make any difference, he was the same. Then at one stage in the 2nd half McGeady picks up the ball on the half way and is running at their defence with purpose. This (and I'd love to curse) "person" is booing. What?! Why?! What????!!!!!!!!!!! I can't fathom someone like this. It's just incredible!
I gave him an earful, but sometimes it's like talking to a wall. Some people would only be happy if we lost all our games and were bottom of the table :rolleyes:

DSB

keane2097 wrote: »

I can't understand how abandoning your team can be seen as so much more an acceptable reaction than expressing your dissatisfaction passionately from the stands.

Apathy > Passion? I really don't agree with that at all.

I don't really advocate either to be honest. But I think someone serves more purpose not being there than hassling the players and damaging morale. If there were such idiots at Shels games I'd definitely prefer they just weren't there.

keane2097

johnp wrote: »

Cannot agree at all for two reasons.
One, you go to the game to support your team, you being a supporter. Through thick and thin you support them. If we're the crappest team on the planet you still support them. Whether you play like Brazil or Wimbledon you support them. Why would you spend 50 or 70 (or whatever) to boo your team and country? Where the satisfaction in that? Why bother?

I would never advocate booing a player except in the event that they weren't putting forth an appropriate effort. Now I don't, on the other hand, have problems with fans using the forum of a match to express their dissatisfaction with other things. Mike Ashley's control of Newcastle for example, Trappatoni's refusal to pick the best players (the idea of it anyway, whether people think he's doing so or not is irrelevant to the argument) etc.

By the simple act of paying for the ticket and turning up to the match you're displaying your support for the team, your desire for them to do well. I don't believe for a second that anyone spent 70 bucks tonight to go to the game wanting to have to boo.

If, however, at the end of the affair you've seen a piss-poor performance and you feel that a large part of the reason the team has played so badly is down to unacceptable behaviour on the manager's part I feel you'd be entirely justified in booing him to your heart's content.

Please note the distinction here, because people seem to be largely ignoring it - booing players just because your team played badly is not cool. Booing players because they didn't bother their arses, booing the manager because he refuses to pick the best players for personal reasons (or similar) or booing the chairman because he's running the club into the ground is not the same thing, and it's a perfectly valid form of expression imo.

johnp wrote: »

And two, booing is a pointless exercise. The guys on the pitch are more qualified to know how they are doing, and you'd certainly like to think that they know they're not playing well. So if you boo all your doing is alienating them.

It's not the only reason people boo.

johnp wrote: »

At the Georgia game, we went one down after a couple of minutes, some "person" behind him started going mental, kicking seats, shouting, booing, giving out..... you get the idea. We got a goal back, didn't make any difference, he was the same. Then at one stage in the 2nd half McGeady picks up the ball on the half way and is running at their defence with purpose. This (and I'd love to curse) "person" is booing. What?! Why?! What????!!!!!!!!!!! I can't fathom someone like this. It's just incredible!
I gave him an earful, but sometimes it's like talking to a wall. Some people would only be happy if we lost all our games and were bottom of the table :rolleyes:

Some people are just retards - it still doesn't invalidate the rest of the arguments, but some people are just retards.

keane2097

DSB wrote: »

I don't really advocate either to be honest. But I think someone serves more purpose not being there than hassling the players and damaging morale. If there were such idiots at Shels games I'd definitely prefer they just weren't there.

What if they're booing the manager or the chairman for valid reasons? For that matter what if they're booing the players for valid reasons? How is giving up on supporting the team and just not turning up anymore better than feeling anger and expressing it when the team's performance is unacceptable for reasons other than them just being not good enough?

DSB

keane2097 wrote: »

What if they're booing the manager or the chairman for valid reasons? For that matter what if they're booing the players for valid reasons? How is giving up on supporting the team and just not turning up anymore better than feeling anger and expressing it when the team's performance is unacceptable for reasons other than them just being not good enough?

Booing the manager or chairman won't achieve anything, if you wanna piss them off, make a song about them or something. And there aren't really valid reasons to boo a team. I can't think of a team that were ever full of a majority of players who weren't interested.