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Eamon Gilmore's Speech

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    #32
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,030 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    tech2 wrote: »
    I understand that but Im pointing out that is all Labour seem to be offering at this moment in time: leadership skills. Joan Burton hasnt mentioned any proposels of what Im aware of. She bypasses many questions being forced at her by the media IMO.
    Really? I've been watching her on TV and she seems to be grand at fighting her corner.
    tech2 wrote: »
    A few little taxes here and there wont sort out the economy. What about the VAT on goods it is way too high. They havnt focus enough on cross-border shopping its affecting several towns withim 200km of the north. They havnt mentioned anything about social welfare?
    Actually, Gilmore has called for a temporary reduction in VAT.

    He also referred to welfare by getting people off it; earn and learn, retraining and re-education,
    tech2 wrote: »
    A third rate of tax isint going to solve the crisis. The way Gilmore pointed it out was that they came up with such a bright idea you would swear no other party pointed it out. They didnt. We need a serious budget that will get this countrys finances back under control.
    ?
    He brought it forward, I didn't see him act like it was some magic formula.


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    #33
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,030 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    nesf wrote: »
    Similar enough on the big ideas when they get into details, a third tax band et al. It's not that they're copying each other or anything, they just all seem to be working off the same page so to speak.

    Are there any other large similarities aside from the third tax band?


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    #34
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Are there any other large similarities aside from the third tax band?

    With FF there's a large similarity with the talking down of the size of the public service as a problem. Gilmore argues that our problem is solely that of people losing jobs, not the expenditure side of the budget etc.

    The difference with FF will come in that FF need to put together a budget, not just a pre-Budget statement. So FF will be forced to trim expenditure whether they like it or not.


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    #35
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,030 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    nesf wrote: »
    With FF there's a large similarity with the talking down of the size of the public service as a problem. Gilmore argues that our problem is solely that of people losing jobs, not the expenditure side of the budget etc.

    The difference with FF will come in that FF need to put together a budget, not just a pre-Budget statement. So FF will be forced to trim expenditure whether they like it or not.

    Gilmore was saying that the way to fix the public finances is by incentivising working. As it is, some of the speakers made the point that many people are better off on the dole.

    He also said that difficult choices would have to be made regarding expenditure and taxes, I'd say some trimming of public spending is heavily implied there.


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    #36
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    kickoutthejams wrote: »
    Really? I've been watching her on TV and she seems to be grand at fighting her corner. .

    She hasnt quite convinced me yet that she is able to handle to public finances thus far. The proposels for the mini budget might convince me to reconsider.
    Actually, Gilmore has called for a temporary reduction in VAT.

    He also referred to welfare by getting people off it; earn and learn, retraining and re-education.

    Getting people off the social welfare is great but the idea to implement it, is the problem. If Gilmore calls for some kind of reduction in VAT im all for that. Im looking forward to seeing the proposals from all parties to see what they would do in terms of expenditure and also focus on job creation.


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    #37
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,030 ✭✭✭Lockstep


    tech2 wrote: »
    She hasnt quite convinced me yet that she is able to handle to public finances thus far. The proposels for the mini budget might convince me to reconsider.
    Fair enough, that's your call.

    AFAIK, Labour is swamped doing the minibudget, I'm also looking forward to seeing it.
    tech2 wrote: »
    Getting people off the social welfare is great but the idea to implement it, is the problem. If Gilmore calls for some kind of reduction in VAT im all for that. Im looking forward to seeing the proposals from all parties to see what they would do in terms of expenditure and also focus on job creation.
    I'd say a VAT reduction makes sense;
    increases purchasing power, hopefully more consumer spending, more money in the economy etc.

    As far as getting people off social welfare, I'd say there are ways to achieve this. Labour in Mayo is fighting for the N5 road to the West, I forget the exact cost (can dig it out when I get home), but it;s meant to have a lot of benefits in reducing wear and tear in consumer products such as the Coke factory in Ballina. Would also include jobs while it's being built.
    The Earn and Learn scheme is meant to work rather well, while giving teachers jobs as assistants/lawyers in legal aid centers would increase social utility while giving them the all important experience for getting a job. I'd say these would indeed help those get off social welfare


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    #38
    DadaKopf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭DadaKopf


    donegalfella wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    So you're saying the exception proves the rule. Straw man, etc., etc.
    I'd say a VAT reduction makes sense;
    increases purchasing power, hopefully more consumer spending, more money in the economy etc.
    I just wonder if FF is going to put some level of VAT on food while decreasing general VAT a little and increasing it on smokes and booze. At the weekend, I heard one ICTU economist suggesting we put VAT on food.


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    #39
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    DadaKopf wrote: »
    At the weekend, I heard one ICTU economist suggesting we put VAT on food.

    An ICTU economist actually suggesting taking away the zero rate on food? :eek:


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    #40
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #41
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Nordic models aside, the reduced VAT rates on food etc are what make the tax tend towards being more progressive rather than regressive (food bills form a huge proportion of the household budget for the very poor etc).

    I find it extremely surprising that ICTU is suggesting making VAT less progressive.


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    #42
    DadaKopf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭DadaKopf


    nesf wrote: »
    Nordic models aside, the reduced VAT rates on food etc are what make the tax tend towards being more progressive rather than regressive (food bills form a huge proportion of the household budget for the very poor etc).

    I find it extremely surprising that ICTU is suggesting making VAT less progressive.
    This is was was strange about it. He said that VAT is regressive in that consumption taxes disproportionately fall on the less well-off. At the same time, VAT on food would make VAT more progressive.

    If this is what I heard, I'm very confused.


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