Northern Ireland Friends of Israel

Nodin

Jakkass wrote: »

A pretty absurd assumption. Jesus was Jewish, the Apostles were Jewish. It was through Israel that Christianity spread to the world. If anything the Christians have a lot to thank the Jews for receiving their Scriptures and the revelation through Christ that happened amongst them. I've never understood Christian anti-Semitism or how it could be even based on Christianity.

.....well, when somebody wrote the bit where the Jews collectively take the blame for killing Christ from Pilate, he wasn't doing it to shift the blame to the Mexicans.

Nodin

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

and ruin what could have been a perfectly good thread about a support group for Israel.

Unfortunately, information about the organisation in question is scant.

O'Morris

I have a lot of respect and admiration for the Israelis and for what they have achieved as a people over the last sixty years. Like Japan, Israel is an ethnic nationalist state populated by people who are proud of their ethnic identity and want to preserve that identity into the future. Israel is a secular nationalist state for Jews who want to still exist as a people in a hundred years from now.

philologos

Nodin wrote: »

.....well, when somebody wrote the bit where the Jews collectively take the blame for killing Christ from Pilate, he wasn't doing it to shift the blame to the Mexicans.

Don't be so absurd, it was clearly referring to a minority of the Jewish rabbis who stirred up people in the crowd. That isn't anti-Semitism.

That doesn't negate the fact that Gentiles owe Jews for their spreading of Christianity.

Anyhow, what do you think is the solution for the conflict then Nodin?

wes

O'Morris wrote: »

I have a lot of respect and admiration for the Israelis and for what they have achieved as a people over the last sixty years. Like Japan, Israel is an ethnic nationalist state populated by people who are proud of their ethnic identity and want to preserve that identity into the future. Israel is a secular nationalist state for Jews who want to still exist as a people in a hundred years from now.

The difference with Japan, is that the Japanese did not kick out a pre-exisiting indigenous population. Israel is a state founded by European colonists that purposefully kicked out the pre-existing indigenous majority. I fail to see why ethnic cleansing is something to be proud of. I also fail to see why anyone would be proud of apartheid either, but I am strange that way.

Nodin

Jakkass wrote: »

Don't be so absurd, it was clearly referring to a minority of the Jewish rabbis who stirred up people in the crowd. That isn't anti-Semitism.

...according to your modern and liberal reading of it. However theres been plenty there for a mob to play with for over two thousand years.

24Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that a riot was about to break out instead. So he took some water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this man's[p] blood. Attend to that yourselves.”
25All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and our children!”

(my bold)
http://isv.scripturetext.com/matthew/27.htm

dlofnep

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

Republicans have a lot more in common with Israel then they would like to believe

It's nothing about what we have in common. Sure, we might eat similar foods, or listen to similar music. What has that to do with the price of fish I ask? Republicans & Palestinians are bound through a similar struggle, and that's the most important part.

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

You ask the majority of Irish people what they would want with northern Ireland they will tell you to cut it off and push it to the sea a similar answer would be got from people in mainland England.

Wrong. This type of propaganda is often peddled, without any credible sources. Merely hearsay. Any public opinion poll ever taken in the south has shown at all times that the people favour Irish unity. (Source).

Also, public opinion polls in Britain have also been heavily in favour of Irish Unity opposed to the north remaining in the Union. (Source)

When it comes down to it, the majority of the people in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales would rather Irish Unity opposed to the 6 counties remaining apart of union. The majority of the people on the Island of Ireland favour it. The only ones who oppose it are the Unionist population.

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

why is there always a few who try to shove there point down everyone elses necks and ruin what could have been a perfectly good thread about a support group for Israel without bringing up right or wrong or whos dna was what or who supports terrorism against Israel the most.

Oh, you wanted a thread where everyone pats Israel on the back and tells it what a great country it is? Unlikely that that will ever happen, considering their treatment of Palestinian civilians and repeated ignored international condemnations.

LordSutch

dlofnep wrote: »

When it comes down to it, the majority of the people in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales would rather Irish Unity opposed to the 6 counties remaining apart of union. The majority of the people on the Island of Ireland favour it. The only ones who oppose it are the Unionist population.

Indeed, but they are the people who actually count (because they live in Northern Ireland, and thay make up the majority of people who live there)!!! and they might ask of you "Why do you oppose the Union"?

As somebody who lived & worked in Israel, I have great admiration & respect for the Israelis and for what they have achieved over the last sixty+ years (despite constant threats). the Israelis are an industrious & hard working people, they have turned desert into oasis, they have also made industries out of nothing, Israelis are proud of their ethnic identity & wish to preserve that identity for future generations, and I see nothing wrong with that..

As another poster already said, every country has a "Friends of Israel movement" and Northern Ireland has one too ............

Nodin

Jakkass wrote: »

Anyhow, what do you think is the solution for the conflict then Nodin?

A removal of most if not all of the settlements and the creation of a Palestinian state incorporating Gaza, the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem.

brianthebard

O'Morris wrote: »

I have a lot of respect and admiration for the Israelis and for what they have achieved as a people over the last sixty years. Like Japan, Israel is an ethnic nationalist state populated by people who are proud of their ethnic identity and want to preserve that identity into the future. Israel is a secular nationalist state for Jews who want to still exist as a people in a hundred years from now.

Japan has persecuted other ethnicities, taken over their land, and colonised islands and countries at various times in its history. Was that the point you were trying to make?

wes

Camelot wrote: »

they have turned desert into oasis,

The Palestinians were farming the land just fine, before the Zionists came from Europe.

ocluggg

mrtaylor1981 wrote: »

A new support group ( and about time too ) has been launched, Northern Ireland Friends of Israel. Hopefully they will have a website up soon with contact details etc. It's to counter the IRA supporters calling on a boycott of Israel. As a Northern Ireland citizen I can empathise with the Isreali's and their fight against terrorism. The great pity was that the British government did not the hard line with the terrorists like the Israeli's. Here is some more details from the Jerusalem Post.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1237392661225

Is there a new IRA that we haven't heard of? Or which IRA are you talking about; the one from the 1920s, 1940s, 1950s 1960s or the one that ceased to exist a number of years ago?

dlofnep

Camelot wrote: »

Indeed, and they are the people who actually count (because they make up the majority of people who live there)!!! indeed they might ask of you "Why do you oppose the Union"?

Opposed to the majority of the people in Ireland and Britain who don't want you? Doesn't seem very democratic, now does it? I'd be interested to see what would happen if there was a referendum across Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales on the 6 counties. I'm willing to bet there would be alot of unhappy unionists.

And when you say "Live there" - What you really mean is - That they live in a small piece of land, which was created to ensure that Unionists would have dominant control over the native population. But that's ok, we'll live with it for the time-being. SF has grown from strength to strength in the North, and in due course - nationalists will be the majority unionist statelet.

I accept that many people in the 6 counties wish to keep ties with the Union. But the majority of people within the Union do not wish to keep ties with the 6 counties. Nobody loves you That's the reality of the situation.

But worry not, when the union eventually disolves - I'll invite you to my house for a nice cup of tea and a sandwich and you'll wonder what the big fuss of being Irish was all about.

philologos

dlofnep wrote: »

I accept that many people in the 6 counties wish to keep ties with the Union. But the majority of people within the Union do not wish to keep ties with the 6 counties. Nobody loves you That's the reality of the situation.

Would you be opposed to an independent Northern Ireland then?

dlofnep wrote: »

But worry not, when the union eventually disolves - I'll invite you to my house for a nice cup of tea and a sandwich and you'll wonder what the big fuss of being Irish was all about.

I think the word is not "when" but rather "if", it's still rather conditional as to whether or not Northern Ireland will remain in the UK.

wes

Jakkass wrote: »

I think the word is not "when" but rather "if", it's still rather conditional as to whether or not Northern Ireland will remain in the UK.

Thats assuming the UK doesn't go the way of the Dodo, if the Scottish nationalists leave it.

You do pose an interesting idea however, of an independent Northen Ireland. I wonder if that would be the most likely scenario if the UK were to fall apart due to Scotland leaving it.

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm struggling to think of a reason to leave this thread open. It's either going to turn into yet another polarised Northern Ireland row, yet another polarised Israel/Palestine row, or (shudder) both.

For my next trick, I will be predicting tonight's lottery numbers.