Muslim Directory

Blisterman

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on ths:
http://www.muslimdirectory.co.uk/

It's a directory of all Muslim owned businesses in the UK, whether they are provide specifically Islamic services or not.

I could understand a directory of Halal butchers/mosques etc, but this includes Builders, Dry Cleaners etc. Businesses where it should make no difference what religion someone is.

Personally, I think its despicable that someone would discriminate on the basis of religion like that, and I think that it's a pretty bad thing for society for people to isolate themselves from the wider society, and not bother to mingle and integrate with people outside their own kind.

Anyway, can anyone offer any justification for this? Would you use it?

hivizman

"Despicable" is a very strong word to use, I think. From a quick perusal of the Muslim Directory, I very much doubt that it lists all Muslim-owned businesses in the UK. In fact, there are only two dry cleaners listed. Both of these are in Lower Sloane Street, London, although the addresses are on opposite sides of the street. I have a fantasy of a soap opera or family saga involving two Muslim brothers who had fallen out over who inherited their father's dry cleaning business (or perhaps in accordance with Sharia the business had been divided equally between them), and were competing against each other from the two sides of Lower Sloane Street, as the only Muslim dry cleaners in Britain.

More seriously, a directory such as this can be used for negative discrimination as much as for positive discrimination. Think about how an equivalent "Jewish Directory" would have been used in Berlin in 1933.

If Muslims need to consult a directory such as this, rather than just asking people they know, it suggests that they are already somewhat apart from a close-knit community. So I don't see the Muslim Directory as evidence of isolationism.

Blisterman

Well, Imagine the fuss, if someone decided to start a directory of white owned businesses. It's still discrimination whether people are part of a minority or the mainstream.

Hobbes

Blisterman wrote: »

It's still discrimination whether people are part of a minority or the mainstream.

While agree with you I try to analyse the non-sinister aspect of it.

Two stories
1. My wife is Korean and when she first came over found it very hard to find stuff. When she found a Korean store it promoted other Korean services out there. Apparently galbi is not the same as beef back then. >_< She shops anywhere now but that helped.

2. Years ago when doing a job interview in the US I met Irish people in CA who detailed various shops, etc of where I should shop "To help the Irish community out". Didn't get the job, but there is that feeling of nationalism.

I don't know about the UK one, with only 2 dry cleaners it sounds like someone trying to sell the idea rather then the community as a whole trying to gang together.

But this sort of stuff does goe on (good example is Mormon country) so it may that. Who knows.

PDN

I really don't see a problem here. In the US you often get directories of Christian owned companies, because Christians want to patronise one another's businesses.

Personally, as a Christian, I avoid Christian-owned businesses like the plague - but that's another issue.

I can understand if Muslims want to do business with companies that share their ethical and moral standards. Fair play to them.

Nodin

Blisterman wrote: »

Just wonder(....)use it?

UK Christian Business and service directory....
http://www.eden.co.uk/directory/christian_business_services_49.html

Jewish Business Directory
http://www.jfind.co.uk/

Sikh Business Dir.
http://www.sikhs.org.uk/bizsearch.aspx

Latter Day saints.....
http://www.ldspro.com/

Blisterman

I'd consider all of them to be equally discriminatory.

Nodin

Blisterman wrote: »

I'd consider all of them to be equally discriminatory.

Well as long as you know its not a new phenomena, nor is it restricted to Religon.....

http://www.blackbusinessplanet.com/

http://www.gaybusiness.com/

Currently I'm searching for "Aging Evil Looking Business" but perhaps our time hasn't come yet...

hivizman

In the UK (or perhaps strictly in Great Britain, because I don't know whether the provisions apply in Northern Ireland), under Part 2 of the Equality Act 2006, it is illegal to discriminate on grounds of religion or belief in the provision of goods, facilities and services. There are some exceptions where the discrimination is objectively justifiable. For example, an Islamic bookshop specialising in the sale of Islamic books would not be required to sell books of other religions, or even atheist tracts, in order to comply with the law. However, it would be illegal discrimination for an Islamic bookshop to refuse to sell books to non-Muslims, or to charge them a different price.

For the Muslim Directory, it would, I believe, be considered to be illegal discrimination if the Directory were to refuse to accept a listing from a business not owned by Muslims, or to accept a listing on less favourable terms. A non-Muslim-owned business could well wish to be listed in order to attract Muslim customers (possibly in order to expand market share, or because the business is located in an area with a large Muslim population).

If a private customer (the law is different for public bodies and also in certain contexts such as employment relationships) prefers to buy from, or even to avoid, Muslim-owned businesses, then that is not (at least at present in Britain) considered to be illegal discrimination. Whether it should be regarded as unacceptable is, of course, another matter. As I said in an earlier post, I don't think that this could be described as "despicable", but for general business transactions (such as hiring a builder or using a dry cleaner), I have difficulties in finding objective criteria for preferring someone of a particular religion over those of other religions. So to that extent I agree with Blisterman. But on the other hand, wanting to buy things from someone who shares an important aspect of your life, your religion, isn't irrational behaviour, so the existence of publications like the Muslim Directory seem quite reasonable to me.

Sonic_exyouth

hivizman wrote: »

In the UK (or perhaps strictly in Great Britain, because I don't know whether the provisions apply in Northern Ireland), under Part 2 of the Equality Act 2006, it is illegal to discriminate on grounds of religion or belief in the provision of goods, facilities and services. There are some exceptions where the discrimination is objectively justifiable. For example, an Islamic bookshop specialising in the sale of Islamic books would not be required to sell books of other religions, or even atheist tracts, in order to comply with the law. However, it would be illegal discrimination for an Islamic bookshop to refuse to sell books to non-Muslims, or to charge them a different price.

For the Muslim Directory, it would, I believe, be considered to be illegal discrimination if the Directory were to refuse to accept a listing from a business not owned by Muslims, or to accept a listing on less favourable terms. A non-Muslim-owned business could well wish to be listed in order to attract Muslim customers (possibly in order to expand market share, or because the business is located in an area with a large Muslim population).

If a private customer (the law is different for public bodies and also in certain contexts such as employment relationships) prefers to buy from, or even to avoid, Muslim-owned businesses, then that is not (at least at present in Britain) considered to be illegal discrimination. Whether it should be regarded as unacceptable is, of course, another matter. As I said in an earlier post, I don't think that this could be described as "despicable", but for general business transactions (such as hiring a builder or using a dry cleaner), I have difficulties in finding objective criteria for preferring someone of a particular religion over those of other religions. So to that extent I agree with Blisterman. But on the other hand, wanting to buy things from someone who shares an important aspect of your life, your religion, isn't irrational behaviour, so the existence of publications like the Muslim Directory seem quite reasonable to me.

I've always thought the Muslim directory to be a brilliant book.
It also gives a guide as to what to do if the police arrest you.

It gives a guide as to how to correctly and legally claim asylum.

Now, some businesses have a stress Muslim angle
For example, a muslim run hotel can give wake up calls for namaz.
A Muslim bank, or bank aimed at muslims, will act under shariah.
A Muslim food premises will only serve halal meat.
Circumsicion clinics .. well.. for obivous reasons.
First aid training can be in gender segregated classes, thus particularly suitable for Muslims

ANd.. many of the businesses list are not Muslim (unless something major has happened over at the HSBC, the food standards agency or Rolex)
It's just that they believe they have something to offer the Muslim markets..
William Kenyon PLC, for example, are a funeneral directors for every one, but use the Muslim directory to highlight that they do Islamic funerals (no Coffin, wrapped in sheet.. etc)

This really is a good thing.
There are similar, but smaller, directories for the Irish in Diaspora cities

hivizman

Yes, these are all positive features of the Muslim Directory.

By the way, HSBC was one of the first "conventional" banks to develop a Sharia-compliant banking division, HSBC Amanah.