Stockbroking_ Is it as glamorous as in the movies.

AARRRGH

Have a look at these guys: http://www.geneva-trading.com/

farva

That’s fair enough, I wouldn’t say where I work on a public forum either, I do find it surprising that a company in the IFSC is starting grads on €45k basic and neither me or any of my mates in trading positions here/London have heard of it. As far as I know the small prop shops like Geneva start you on an incredibly low basic (around €18k) but give you a good percentage of what you earn for them, maybe you could earn €50k + there straight out of college but you’d be out on your ear as quickly if you weren’t making money!

I disagree with pocketdooz on the “pass maths is ok so long as you have a 2:1”. I have mates working in trading positions in London and here and I interviewed for a couple myself - from mine and their experiences if you aren’t quantitatively strong you’re not getting a job in trading.
Look at the college courses that recruiter for trading positions target – Engineering, Physics, Maths, Statistics, Economics. The main problem for pass maths is that these courses require a minimum of a B/C in honours for entry. If you’re coming from a general business degree which will have virtually no exposure to quantitative areas (maths stats) with pass maths behind you, you’re at a serious disadvantage. I’m not saying that it can’t be done, if you’re trading your own account or have something to make you stand out you’d be in with a shot. I’d say that if you’re in pass maths due to laziness, do your best to get back into honours.

But having said that I’m not a trader, I’m in M&A.

pocketdooz

farva wrote: »

That’s fair enough, I wouldn’t say where I work on a public forum either, I do find it surprising that a company in the IFSC is starting grads on €45k basic and neither me or any of my mates in trading positions here/London have heard of it. As far as I know the small prop shops like Geneva start you on an incredibly low basic (around €18k) but give you a good percentage of what you earn for them, maybe you could earn €50k + there straight out of college but you’d be out on your ear as quickly if you weren’t making money!

I disagree with pocketdooz on the “pass maths is ok so long as you have a 2:1”. I have mates working in trading positions in London and here and I interviewed for a couple myself - from mine and their experiences if you aren’t quantitatively strong you’re not getting a job in trading.
Look at the college courses that recruiter for trading positions target – Engineering, Physics, Maths, Statistics, Economics. The main problem for pass maths is that these courses require a minimum of a B/C in honours for entry. If you’re coming from a general business degree which will have virtually no exposure to quantitative areas (maths stats) with pass maths behind you, you’re at a serious disadvantage. I’m not saying that it can’t be done, if you’re trading your own account or have something to make you stand out you’d be in with a shot. I’d say that if you’re in pass maths due to laziness, do your best to get back into honours.

But having said that I’m not a trader, I’m in M&A.

It's an fixed-income trading house - low-key and private. Start on €45k plus bonus plus perks (phone, food etc). A good few on this forum know it and know I work there.

I agree with your points on Maths - what I meant to say and didn't make myself clear was that when you interview for a company at age 22 or whatever they will be more interested in your more recent university results than how you did in Leaving. But if you can do honours maths and still have the time to do 5/6 other honours subjects you should do that.

I did a business degree and then masters in finance so for me it was irrelevant but if you want to get in to a course (which your course in UL is not I'm pretty sure) that requires honours maths then needless to say - do honours maths.

Daragh101

fair enough, im good with numbers, but not so good at the harder stuff.

DJDC

Dude, I am going to be honest with you and say that honestly doing pass Maths and a random business course, it is going to be almost impossible to get onto a front office graduate scheme in London. The HR robots are very elitist. The few that make the make the move every year generally all follow the same sterotype of 500+ point LC/excellent extracurriculars,economics/maths at TCD,UCD etc. Its an unfair fact of life that your CV wont pass through the initial filters. Your best bet is to try and stay and intern with companies like propshops in Dublin because they seem to put more emphasis on actual trading ability than LC marks/University reputuation etc.

Dont mean to be harsh but I think as farva will agree, I am just being realistic.

pocketdooz

Daragh - don't let people box in what these companies are looking for. The vast majority of the bulge bracket banks in London are looking for that typical person DJDC described. However there are literally hundreds of other companies (funds/prop shops/banks/PE groups/trading houses etc.etc) that hire on quality of person, references and interviews and don't consider Business in UL (the only course in the country with access to a simulated trading room, Bloomberg and Datastream) a random business course, nor do they care if you did pass maths when you were 17 or 18. You will be grinding as an analyst most likely for 2 years anyway and it's all modelled on computers now anyway so you don't need to be a maths whizz unless you're in quants (not saying you can be sh1t at maths but you know what I mean)

As you go through college you'll learn far more about it from experience and talking to classmates and lecturers. Best of luck with it but I will say if you're not prepared to put in 60-70 hours a week you might as well just forget about it now and find an interest in something else.

Edit: I have mates who did economics and politics and are working in Goldman, did law and are working in S&P and did e-commerce in a DIT and are working in Morgan Stanley so there are no set rules to be honest but DJDC is right - they will look most favourably onthe stereotypical person he outlined above. After you get the interview though it's up to you.

DJDC

I would just like to say I don't think the recruitment procedure of the banks in London is perfect but it is the metric they use to hire graduates.

Traders in particular should be hired far more on their inante intelligience and pyschology rather than academic results that mean sweet f.a in the real world. I think if you are clever enough and work hard enough, you can get a trading position.

Good luck.

dunkamania

Yes, but not falling into the HR's mould for traders, can cost you 5 or more years working your way up from back office

farva

DJDC wrote: »

Dude, I am going to be honest with you and say that honestly doing pass Maths and a random business course, it is going to be almost impossible to get onto a front office graduate scheme in London. The HR robots are very elitist. The few that make the make the move every year generally all follow the same sterotype of 500+ point LC/excellent extracurriculars,economics/maths at TCD,UCD etc. Its an unfair fact of life that your CV wont pass through the initial filters. Your best bet is to try and stay and intern with companies like propshops in Dublin because they seem to put more emphasis on actual trading ability than LC marks/University reputuation etc.

Dont mean to be harsh but I think as farva will agree, I am just being realistic.

A little harsh but true, I never applied to London as I didn't want to leave Ireland but I've a lot of mates who did and some are working there but most didn't get job offers.

Actually come to think about it this must all sound quite strange for someone still at school who was confusing stockbroking and trading at the start of this thread. I know that I didn't have a notion before 2nd year in college.

Daragh101

i did no stockbrokers deal with a lot more than just buying and selling stock.

im not saying stockbroking is/isnt what i want after 3rd level education im not sure yet, this is why i would opt for a course like business in UL because it leaves your options open.I only got interested in the whole stock market thing etc after reading a book "how to make money in stocks" which helped me make a couple of sucessful trades late last year.:)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

damnyanks

Business in UL is fine. I've met a few people from there working in markets.

jhn_noln

hope im not hijacking the thread but im in a similar position to the OP (although a stage further in that im heading into my final year). Im doing a accounting and finance degree and will specialise in finance next year.
I hope to stay on and complete a masters in finance but i was just wondering is there a procedure similar to the "milkround" for accounting or has anyone a rough list of firms i should be looking to apply for come next september/october?

thanks in advance!