Italy v Ireland WCQ RTE 2 7:50pm Wed

PCros

Doyle

jacool wrote: »

Our difficult task could have been made easier had Martin Atkinson done his job properly and in the 19th minute dismissed Cannavaro for a red card offense. Its his birthday tomorrow, but he won't be getting any cards from us !! So the Italians won a game I thought they'd draw, and we drew a game I thought we'd win. Injuries, defections and poor squad selections have ensured that our midfield is dire - so perhaps that's why Trap is by-passing it. I'd say we'll be playing for a 0-0 draw from the kick-off and hoping that we grab a poxy goal off Keane's arse to steal a draw or shock horror a win.
The big question though is who would you back if your mortgage was on it, and I don't think Ireland would be the answer !! I didn't see Saturday's game but a guy here said its €55 and 2 hours he'll never get back, so I take it we were bad. Also missed Dunphy's tirade, but aren't those expected ?

Well we have the controversial Wolfgang Stark reffing the match on Wednesday, hes the ref who handed out 3 reds two years ago at the Barca - Celtic match.

He also nearly caused a riot at the Chile - Argentina U-20 World Cup match the same year.

I can see this match being a bit heated, top two fighting for the top spot.

Highsider

Doyle

Managers doing a great job given the utter rubbish he has to work with. can't see nothing but a defeat here. 2-0 to the Italians

LowOdour

I think a major problem lies with our full backs. They never seem to move past the center line. You are then left with the winger only getting support from a forward leaving nobody in the box to cross it in to....its crazy stuff. I definately would have foley instead of mcshane. Yes, he may be inexperienced but if mcgeady is out, then there will be no width whatsoever. Then again, maybe the manager would inflict the same problem on him.

I think we will lose 2-0. I think our position in the group is outstanding considering what this and the last qualification was like.

Tech3

2-0 to Italy being a very boring game.

I can see them also having 75% possession of the ball and Given to give a man of the match performance yet still lose.

Unearthly

Banker defeat. I'll be surprised if we managed to get a shot on target.

If Trap gets a draw in this game then his salary should be bumped upto 20 million a year with some of the crap that's in the squad.

What's worse is that when we do lose, loads of people will make out it's because we didn't play the greatest player ever Andy Reid.....

chillywilly

1-0 kilbane to score


but for who?!!:D

Third_Echelon

I'm going to Bari for this one, so I hope it's 4-0 to Ireland

Seriously though, i'd take a 0-0 now. 1 point here would be a great result against the world champions on their home turf...

newballsplease

N. Hunt

Its the Top 2 teams in the group. Its Ireland playing the Italians, in a world cup qualifier.
How can anyone suggest this will be boring?

dont watch it then.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Whelan

Carroller16 wrote: »

my TEAM;

GIVEN
MCSHANE
O'SHEA
DUNNE
KILBANE

S HUNT
ANDREWS
GIBSON
KEOGH (if mcgeady out!)

KEANE
DOYLE

I felt like crying when I saw that potential midfield. On paper, that's the weakest Irish midfield I've seen for years...

ironictoaster

I have faith.

1-0 to Ireland.

bohsman

Ive just had to turn down a free trip to this, on the bright side I wont have to watch the match now.

LeeroyJones

newballsplease wrote: »

Its the Top 2 teams in the group. Its Ireland playing the Italians, in a world cup qualifier.
How can anyone suggest this will be boring?

dont watch it then.

after 10 matches Ireland and Italy have managed 14 goals altogether, thats the lowest goals return from a top 2 throughout the Qualifying Groups-and thats after playing the "lesser sides"! Also the 2 best players on the pitch are Buffon and Given! Granted there's more to attractive football than goals but i don't see much in the way of flair and creativity on either side!

the game will be tense and the outcome will be very important-for that reason i'll watch it, but i don't think the rest of Europe are gearing themselves up for it!

Hopefully I'm wrong!

newballsplease

N. Hunt

LeeroyJones wrote: »

after 10 matches Ireland and Italy have managed 14 goals altogether, thats the lowest goals return from a top 2 throughout the Qualifying Groups-and thats after playing the "lesser sides"! Also the 2 best players on the pitch are Buffon and Given! Granted there's more to attractive football than goals but i don't see much in the way of flair and creativity on either side!

the game will be tense and the outcome will be very important-for that reason i'll watch it, but i don't think the rest of Europe are gearing themselves up for it!

Hopefully I'm wrong!

id say they are concentrating on their own games.

Limerick Dude

I have a good feeling we will up our game for this, players will be more up for it.

I have a funny feeling that the lads had one eye on the Italy game before the Bulgaria game.

A hard earned 1-1 for me.

Italians didnt impress me at all against montenegro, montenegro could of scored a few goals in the first half.

Come on lads!

newballsplease

N. Hunt

Limerick Dude wrote: »

I have a good feeling we will up our game for this, players will be more up for it.

I have a funny feeling that the lads had one eye on the Italy game before the Bulgaria game.

A hard earned 1-1 for me.

Italians didnt impress me at all against montenegro, montenegro could of scored a few goals in the first half.

Come on lads!

Monenegro are a decent side. id say 2-0 to italy hope not though

redout

Gibson

Lads has anyone looked at the Italians defence ? It looks rock solid. If on form Keane and Doyle will have it tough. That back four is better than any in world football in my opinion. Lets not forget their best defender Nesta is injured.

Buffon

Grosso
Cannavaro
Chiellini
Zambrotta

Also Dossena, Bocchetti, Gamberini, Mota

ziggy

Gibson

This post has been deleted.

kingshankly

think we could be in for a snoozefest 0-0 for me which would be a great result

Fromvert

I think it will be pretty unexciting 0-0, due to both teams being pretty poor in front of goal.

everdead.ie

Whelan

1-1 I reckon
Don't know who'd be better to win cyprus or Bulgaria a draw i suppose would be ideal.

BaZmO*

everdead.ie wrote: »

1-1 I reckon
Don't know who'd be better to win cyprus or Bulgaria a draw i suppose would be ideal.

Huh? A Cyprus win would be best for us.

pierrot

Gibson

Whatever about score predictions, I predict that this will be the most boring match this side of West Ham v. Blackburn.

everdead.ie

Whelan

BaZmO* wrote: »

Huh? A Cyprus win would be best for us.

A draw would have both up to 5 and 6 points of us a cyprus win would have them 4 points of us.

kenco

I think they will throw the sink at us for the first 30mins and if they dont score (big if) then they will switch off and it will be a bore fest of a 0-0

Alternatively we could fight fire with fire (very unlikely) and go for them on the basis of if we lose so be it but we go down fighting.

Italy have won the group I dont think they are that bothered about this game...

newballsplease

N. Hunt

pierrot wrote: »

Whatever about score predictions, I predict that this will be the most boring match this side of West Ham v. Blackburn.

dont watch it then. i cant wait for it.

pierrot

Gibson

newballsplease wrote: »

dont watch it then. i cant wait for it.

Ah no, didn't mean it like that, i'll be watching it with full support.

redout

Gibson

kenco wrote: »

Italy have won the group I dont think they are that bothered about this game...

Do you know something the rest of us dont ?

Your defeatist attitude does us no favours brother.

gosplan

I'd expect Italy to totally dominate possession but still only win 1-0.

Ergo, I think we have a slim chance of upsetting them.

To not lose this game would be an awesome achievement and a massive result in terms of the group outcome.

am i bovvered

I think everyone realises the weakness of the team at present, I was at the poland and georgia games and the performances were very poor, the results of the last 3 games have flattered us, that is the problem, fans know we are winging it and therefore are predicting disaster unless we can change the squad to represent our strongest possible and a more positive attitude.
However the best thing about sport is you never know what will happen, nobody could have predicted Liverpools latest run of results, most people had written off Bernard Dunnes chances, and we were not favs to win the grand slam.... there is hope, if we get a draw we are in with a great chance, I believe Traps influence on this team has been from the start getting them ready for this game... not to be beaten.

Mr.Nice Guy

Doyle

Usually I have trouble with my heart ruling my head but not really for this game. I really can't see any way we can get a result in Italy with our normally poor away record and our really disappointing performances of late. It will be a miracle if we get a draw.

I think the first goal will be key and to be honest I can see it going to the Italians. I think our best chance is to make it to half-time all square and hopefully they will get frustrated as things go on. Shay Given will need the match of his life.

What are the chances of Paul McGrath coming out of retirement I wonder? He did alright the last time he played them. :cool:

Stevecw

This kind of game will probably suit Traps annoying defensive style. He will set up the team to try cling on to 0-0. But even though Italy are missing so many main players i still think they will have enough to win 1-0. I don't trust our full backs at all to keep them at bay for 90 mins.

As has been said here earlier Trap up to now has been lucky and thats all. He as we all know picks the wrong mf, doesn't seem to know what a sub is and when we get ahead just seems to tell us to sit back and wait for the inevitable goal from opponents.
He got such a lucky break with Georgia "away" not being actually away, and with the peno that never was at home to them to bring us back into it. And v Cyprus we were terrible, and so lucky that Given pulled off great saves and they missed a couple of sitters.

I hate his approach, his lack of interest in the team and his stubborness when by now he must know he is picking the wrong midfield.
But no matter what its still Ireland and i will always be behind the team, and hope somehow we can scrape a 0-0 or a flukey 1-0 win Wednesday despite the manager.

Het-Field

A reuslt here is a must if we wish to move forward.

I am not optimistic, but im not pushing the panic button, and calling a 2/3-0 defeat. Its a shame that virtually our best players (S.Reid, Finnan, Duff, A.Reid, Ireland, Carsley, and J.O'Brien) are either injured or in international exile, but this cannot be allowed to drag the moral of the country down.

As I went to see Metallica on saturday, I missed the Bulgaria game (first in years), but from what I heard Ireland were piss poor, and were lucky not to get beaten. The key thing is the team wasnt beaten. If Bulgaria had won, the advantage we gained by their draw in Georgia would have been wiped out. If we can must any sort of creidble backs against the wall job, Ireland can come from Bari with some kind of result. I would like to use the more blanket defence of old, and frustrate an Italian team that in all probability will start 4-4-2. The only fear is that we dont have the defenders for such an enterprise, however, we could go 4-5-1, or 5-4-1

4-5-1

---

Given

---

McShane

---

Dunne

---

O'Shea

---

Kilbane

McGeady

---

Andrews

---

Whelan

---

Gibson

---

Hunt

---

Keane/Doyle

---

or

---

Given

---

Foley

---

McShane

---

Dunne

---

O'Shea

---

Kilbane

McGeady

---

Whelan

---

Andrews

---

Hunt

---

Keane/Doyle

---

God, when I put it down on paper, we look super weak Now Im worried.


The Solution : Think of Ireland's Strongest Team

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

J.O'Brien

---

O'Shea

Ireland

---

S.Reid

---

Andrews

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Doyle

---

ahh thats better

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Whelan

Stevecw wrote: »

This kind of game will probably suit Traps annoying defensive style. He will set up the team to try cling on to 0-0. But even though Italy are missing so many main players i still think they will have enough to win 1-0. I don't trust our full backs at all to keep them at bay for 90 mins.

As has been said here earlier Trap up to now has been lucky and thats all. He as we all know picks the wrong mf, doesn't seem to know what a sub is and when we get ahead just seems to tell us to sit back and wait for the inevitable goal from opponents.
He got such a lucky break with Georgia "away" not being actually away, and with the peno that never was at home to them to bring us back into it. And v Cyprus we were terrible, and so lucky that Given pulled off great saves and they missed a couple of sitters.

I hate his approach, his lack of interest in the team and his stubborness when by now he must know he is picking the wrong midfield.
But no matter what its still Ireland and i will always be behind the team, and hope somehow we can scrape a 0-0 or a flukey 1-0 win Wednesday despite the manager.

I hate his effing system, I am really starting to think he's past it, why can't get he just play one holding midifelder like most other teams at home? I don't think for one second that we would have been so poor if we had Andy Reid on the pitch, who is by no means a world beater, but can at least retain possession and knock the ball around and be creative. I'm not saying Keith Andrews and Glenn Whelan are shocking players in their role (okay maybe I'm being too kind to Whelan ) , but there is only need for one of them in home matches and the 'system' is making them look a lot worse than they actually are because of their lack of creativity.

pierrot

Gibson

Maybe even sticking Kilbane back in CM wouldn't be the worst idea. Whelan and Andrews as a CM pairing just wont cut it. We'll be very bare in midfield if both Duff and McGeady miss out.

aidan24326

Stevecw wrote: »

As has been said here earlier Trap up to now has been lucky and thats all. He as we all know picks the wrong mf, doesn't seem to know what a sub is and when we get ahead just seems to tell us to sit back and wait for the inevitable goal from opponents.

This to me is one of the most annoying things about Trappatoni. What the fcuk is the point in having subs if you won't even use them? Especially in a game like Saturday's where we were playing poorly and a couple of changes might just have freshened things up. The subs must surely be getting p1ssed off, can't be good for morale. He sends on Andy Keogh in injury time, what the hell was the point in that? Couldn't he have thrown him on for the last 15 mins after Bulgaria's equaliser? It's not like the 11 on the pitch were all covering themselves in glory.

Stephen Hunt gives the ball away far too often and IMO is not a 90 minute player at this level. He's good to throw in for 15/20 minutes and run at people if you're looking to change things a bit, or you're chasing a goal, but that's it.

In spite of all the problems (poor midfield, injuries, overly defensive tactics etc) I still wouldn't completely rule out some sort of result on Weds night, for the simple reason that this is not a great Italian team. Still, they won't have to be great to beat a team with Andrews* and Whelan in midfield and Paul McShane at right back. Defeat would rule out winning the group but I don't think anyone seriously believes we can win it anyway, it's always been about second place right from the start.

*In fairness to Andrews I thought he did ok on sat night, but isn't helped either by the system he's playing in or the fact he has a very limited player alongside him.

pierrot

Gibson

What Aidan said. Nail, meet head.

Mikeyt086

Folan

I reckon any sort of result and we are fine. Purely because Bulgaria will be watching and hoping for Italy to thrash us, so if we draw or somehow nick a win, they will be mortified as if we dont drop points to Italy away, how will they catch us?

However, should we go there and get pumped 3/4-0, then Bulgaria will be licking their lips ready for the next set of matches to get after us.

Just need to compose ourselves in defence and try have some impact on set-pieces.

el_tiddlero

Andrews

aidan24326 wrote: »

This to me is one of the most annoying things about Trappatoni. What the fcuk is the point in having subs if you won't even use them?

Should you make a change if what you have on the bench is no better than what you have on the pitch?? The idea of a (tactical) substitution is to improve your situation.
I thought, by not making a change in response to the goal, he showed faith in the 11 he'd picked to go and do the job. Keogh came on solely because McGeady couldn't run any more (knee injury).
Some coaches make a change no matter what, just to be seen to be doing something. Others will only make one if necessary. It's just a different style of management, and perhaps one we're not overly used to here.
As far as I can tell, Trap is all about instilling confidence in players by showing trust and not embarrassing them. E.g. If he had taken S. Hunt off on Saturday, what would that have done to his confidence ahead of wednesday? (might Hunt have been booed off??) By leaving him on Trap showed him that even if he doesn't have the greatest game, he is still trusted and needed. That's important going into wednesday and future games imo.

redout

Gibson

el_tiddlero wrote: »

Should you make a change if what you have on the bench is no better than what you have on the pitch?? The idea of a (tactical) substitution is to improve your situation.

Thats not always correct.

LowOdour

Het-Field wrote: »

God, when I put it down on paper, we look super weak Now Im worried.


The Solution : Think of Ireland's Strongest Team

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

O'SheaJ.O'Brien

---

Kilbane

McGeady

---

S.Reid

---

IrelandAndrews

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

Doyle

---

ahh thats better

Fixed for you!
God, if Carlsberg did Irish soccer teams...(and got us a better full back than Kilbane)

Nalz

Whelan

Not that it matters much, but Irelands best team is

---

Given

---

Finnan

---

Dunne

---

O'Shea

---

Kilbane

McGeady

---

Ireland

---

S Reid

---

Fahey

---

Duff

---

Doyle

---

With subs: B Murphy, Carsley, Keane, Delap, And Reid, O Dea, A O Brien, Garvan, Keogh

_blank_

I really wish people would stop including S. Ireland in an Ireland Best XI.

It's an exercise in futility.

The world and it's mother know he is the best player of Irish descent, the fact is, though, that he is not available.

Jesus H Christ.

Why do people keep putting him in their teams?

You may as well be putting Keane, Giles and Kernaghen in there for all the difference it makes.

Nalz

Whelan

Des wrote: »

You may as well be putting Keane, Giles and Kernaghen in there for all the difference it makes.

Because he's a current footballer and can play for the Republic of Ireland. There is a few players that arent being picked and wont/cant play for their country. Delap, Andy Reid etc.
So what if people show the best players in their opinion that can play for their country in a post or two, so fuppin what! no need to go off on one!

I really wish I'd win the lotto

LuckyLloyd

Doyle

redout wrote: »

Thats not always correct.

Making changes for the sake of it isn't always correct either!

ziggy

Gibson

This post has been deleted.

el_tiddlero

Andrews

Originally Posted by el_tiddlero
Should you make a change if what you have on the bench is no better than what you have on the pitch?? The idea of a (tactical) substitution is to improve your situation.

redout wrote: »

Thats not always correct.

care to elaborate?? If I were a coach I wouldn't make changes unless I could have a positive effect on my team. I don't see the point in taking off a player that is better than the person who is going to replace him. I could understand that if there were a physical reason for it, i.e. playing in extreme heat where fatigue sets in, but that's not a tactical substitution, it's replacing an injured player (injured meaning they are unable to play a full active role in the match).

Obviously there's no hard and fast rule with changes, but going back to what I said about trust and confidence in the starting 11, allowing them to finish the game shows that the coach has faith in them. Unneccessary substitutions can have very significant psychological effects on players - just look at Robbie Keane when he was at Liverpool..

Our only chance against Italy is if we believe - truly believe - that we can get a result off them. That's what the coach is trying to instil in the players. And, to be fair, we were only 1 good finish away from taking the 3 points at the death, regardless of how we had played up to that point - thereby vindicating the coach's decision to stick with who he had out there.

Sport often shows us that belief and desire can trump superior talent - and that, given our playing resources, is how we will win games and qualify.

LuckyLloyd

Doyle

el_tiddlero wrote: »

care to elaborate?? If I were a coach I wouldn't make changes unless I could have a positive effect on my team. I don't see the point in taking off a player that is better than the person who is going to replace him. I could understand that if there were a physical reason for it, i.e. playing in extreme heat where fatigue sets in, but that's not a tactical substitution, it's replacing an injured player (injured meaning they are unable to play a full active role in the match).

Obviously there's no hard and fast rule with changes, but going back to what I said about trust and confidence in the starting 11, allowing them to finish the game shows that the coach has faith in them. Unneccessary substitutions can have very significant psychological effects on players - just look at Robbie Keane when he was at Liverpool..

Our only chance against Italy is if we believe - truly believe - that we can get a result off them. That's what the coach is trying to instil in the players. And, to be fair, we were only 1 good finish away from taking the 3 points at the death, regardless of how we had played up to that point - thereby vindicating the coach's decision to stick with who he had out there.

Sport often shows us that belief and desire can trump superior talent - and that, given our playing resources, is how we will win games and qualify.

Yup, and this is something people have forgotten very quickly since the current manager assumed the role. People are stuck on talking about Reid and Ireland like it really matters. It doesn't, if those lads came back and we played like we did under Staunton - i.e. with no tactical and physical cohesiveness - it would be irrelevant. We wouldn't qualify. When we got to 2002, it was about Keane binding players together on the pitch and fighting our way to results we didn't deserve (two unlikely draws against Portugal, scraping the win against Holland). And then that we got through the group stages was down to '**** you' team performances from a group of players who felt they had something to prove.

It's not about what the parts add up to, it's about banding together and producing more than that sum for three or four key games.

monkey9

Gibson

I predict Italy 3-0 Rep. Ireland. But to show some positivity, i'm gonna put money on just the two nil to the Italians

mormank

very good point. i think that people are jumping down traps throat way too soon here. look at his experience ffs!!

can i ask one thing tho, people are talking about steven reid like he will be some amazing player for us.and in CM. am i missing something?? i never really rated him personally...

also in the team above someone has a J O Brien playin CB in our supposed best team. who is J O Brien?? is this andy o brien they are talkin about??

also i wholly agree that kevin kilbane should be moved to CM for the italy game. you would be killing two birds with one stone. probably strengthening our CM and gettin him as far away from the LB berth as possible!!! (well not literally but you get my drift)

Mikeyt086

Folan

Do you want Ian Harte to play left back? Maybe Kieron Westwood? We play Zinedine Kilbane at left back because we have no other choice. wtf

You never rated Steven Reid? Are you joking?

He is a great passer of a football. The 2 or 3 games he played for us last year made us look like a good team because he is this gold-dust type of Irish player who can keep the ball.

He has a rocket of a shot and makes surging runs from midfield, something our current CM's are allergic to. When was the last time you saw a good surge from someone in a Ireland jersey?

Steven Reid is a brilliant footballer.