Asking permission to marry...

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,

I'm just curious to know if men in this day and age still feel the need to ask permission from your girlfriend's father/parents before you propose?

I know it's an old fashioned idea but it seems respectful towards her parents if you do this. Of course people will argue that you are both adults and its none of their business but some parents and women may still think it's appropriate.

Well, do you?

SarahSassy

Definitely - 150%. Its a sign of respect to the parents and plenty of brownie points from the Dad....

Not sure if you are going to surprise your GF but if so make sure the Mam or Dad dont blab and spoil the surprise. I have heard of this happen....

Look, it completely depends on your gf and her feelings on the matter. I assume if you're thinking of proposing , you know her well enough by now to know if she would appreciate it or not

personally I would be extremely offended if my OH went behind my back and "asked permission" like I'm some kind of possession to be traded around with no say-so


Sarah: a sign of respect to the parents?? what about some respect for the woman he's supposed to be proposing to ??

littlebug

I'd have been well pee'd off if my husband had asked permission from my parents.

Toots

Generally these days it's done because of tradition, so it's up to you whether or not you want to do it. I wouldn't say it's an essential. My fiancé asked my Dad before he proposed to me, and I thought it was really sweet. My Dad was floored though, cos he never would have expected him to ask!! I'd say it was an awkward conversation.

SarahSassy

bluewolf wrote: »

Sarah: a sign of respect to the parents?? what about some respect for the woman he's supposed to be proposing to ??

Its tradition and its manners.... He is asking her parents to making sure they are happy that the couple get married and unless she is a cantankerous cow I cant see why she would be upset about this...

Its not a big deal to ask and its not a possession thing, its mainly to ask if its ok for him to join their family...

SarahSassy

SarahSassy wrote: »

Its tradition and its manners....

So just because it's tradition it must be good? What about the actual original reasons for this tradition?

He is asking her parents to keep them happy and unless she is a cantankeous cow I cant see why she would be upset about him attempting to win over / please her parents...

I have no problem whatsoever with attempting to please parents or win them over, but going behind his gf's back to "ask permission" FIRST is a different thing entirely and I really fail to see how objection to that would make me a cantankerous cow.

Its not a big deal and its not a possession thing its to ask if its ok for him to join their family...

It is a big deal to some, and it can very, very easily be regarded as a "possession thing".
However as I said originally the OP would know best his gf's reaction to such a thing. I hope :pac:

SarahSassy

I see it as him asking her parents if it is ok for him to join their family. He is not going to say 'can I have possession of your daughter', its more like 'is it ok with you if i marry your daughter'... The possession thing went out the window when women became independent of their fathers / family.

OP, you will hear many varied responses here but at the end of the day good manners is good manners and its not going to hurt to do the polite thing. You dont need to ask but many Irish Daddy's are old fashioned and probably asked their own Fathers in law the same thing and would welcome the same respect in turn from the next generation.

SS

PS Dont also forget how precious their little girls are to them... Show that you love their daughters and you will have an ally for life.

RacoonQueen

SarahSassy wrote: »

Its tradition and its manners.... He is asking her parents to making sure they are happy that the couple get married and unless she is a cantankerous cow I cant see why she would be upset about this...

Its not a big deal to ask and its not a possession thing, its mainly to ask if its ok for him to join their family...

And what if they say no? Why would you need to ask if it's OK to join their family? I just don't get this

I'd be disgusted if a guy asked my parents before me. I'd say no to him purely because it would prove how little he knew me.

SarahSassy

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'd be disgusted if a guy asked my parents before me. I'd say no to him purely because it would prove how little he knew me.

I would see it as a lack of respect for my family if he didnt mention it first so each to their own....

LegacyUser

A friend asked his father in law to be, who said no, flared into a big row which lasted months. The da in law coudn't abide him apparently, but managed to keep it under his hat. So ask if you're certain of your answer!

Polleta

Personally I would highly offended if a guy asked my dad/parents before he asked me.

So highly offended I'm not sure I'd be able to forgive my partner...

The way I see it it is 100% my decision to make and nothing to do with my parents. I am responsible for myself and my life. My parents will have met my partner and know them quite well by the time we do get engaged.

leeroybrown

I remember a massive sprawling thread on this issue a while back. There did seem to be a decent number of women who'd be seriously pissed off if their partner asked their parents for permission. It's a custom that a lot of parents probably still appreciate but it really depends on the individual couple.

SarahSassy

SarahSassy wrote: »

I see it as him asking her parents if it is ok for him to join their family. He is not going to say 'can I have possession of your daughter', its more like 'is it ok with you if i marry your daughter'... The possession thing went out the window when women became independent of their fathers / family.

And why would it need to be OK with my parents? What if they didn't like my OH and said no? It's none of their business. I'd be mortified if he asked my parents, and so would they, I imagine.

murfie

Polleta wrote: »

The way I see it it is 100% my decision to make and nothing to do with my parents. I am responsible for myself and my life. My parents will have met my partner and know them quite well by the time we do get engaged.

Of course it has something to do with your parents, I put the question to you then, would you marry a guy that your parents didn't want you to marry and they didn't like.

I asked my parents in law, I didn't ask for ownership of their daughter I asked for their blessing to propose to their daughter. Made me feel so much better as they gave me a glowing response and were delighted i asked them.

If they had said no, it would have meant that my wife would probably not have said yes. She holds the opinion of her parents in high regard would want them to also love her husband.

ManOfMystery

I'm laughing at some of the replies here which are making a complete mountain out of a molehill and implying that it somehow 'demeans' the woman. Is it windy up on that pedestal?

It's nothing more than a traditional symbolic gesture. It's done as a mark of respect to the parents; after all, you may be marrying your bride but in some respect you're also marrying into her family.

Whether the father says no or not is largely irrelevant as you can still go ahead and get married (obviously with some ill-feeling), but the act of asking is just symbolic of the respect you have for your bride's parents.

For those who think that tradition is not always right, I suppose you see no need for a hen night, white wedding dress and may as well do away with the wedded couple's first dance when you're at it.

banquo

I think the asking of permission is more for guys than it is for girls tbh.

If I were proposing to the gf I would want - by my own human nature - to ask her father's permission. But she says she'd hate that.

ManOfMystery

ManOfMystery wrote: »

For those who think that tradition is not always right, I suppose you see no need for a hen night, white wedding dress

So what if I didn't? What has that got to do with my disagreeing with ONE tradition anyway? I didn't say I disagreed simply because it was a tradition, I implied just because it's a tradition doesn't mean it's a good thing, particularly if I have other reasons to disagree with that particular "tradition".

The simple fact is some see no problem with it, and some see it as a mark of disrespect. None of this "joining the family" stuff changes that in my view.

Once again, the op should watch out for the fact his gf may fall into either camp and go from there.

Orla K

I wouldn't like anyone knowing I was going to get engaged before me. If a guy did that I would probably not say yes.

Terodil

'Marrying into the family'... erm... why?

A marriage is between husband and wife only and nobody else. As such I find it ludicrous this time and age that people would find the need to get it 'sanctioned' by some person who has absolutely no say or significance in the matter.

Additionally, as bluewolf said, it has the potential to seriously offend the bride-to-be. And I can see why; asking the parents behind her back continues a tradition that has an abundance of meaning behind it (dowry...). IMO you cannot simply withdraw to an abstract level here. I know that that behavioural pattern is somewhat 'en vogue' today but it doesn't make it any better. If you choose to live the tradition you live the whole thing, not just a hand-picked few meaningless elements of it.

kevmy

Can't believe that some people would not marry the man they love and perhaps have been planning to spend the rest of their life with because he asked their father for permission. How ridiculous is that?

kevmy

kevmy wrote: »

Can't believe that some people would not marry the man they love and perhaps have been planning to spend the rest of their life with because he asked their father for permission. How ridiculous is that?

How many threads have we seen where a couple is seriously strained because one of them is discussing the couple's personal details/secrets with someone outside the relationship? And that's ok, but suddenly when it's "tradition" that's it, ofc it can't be questioned as being disrespectful?

MelonieHead

Obviously it does depend on the girl. If she's very, very, very close to her dad then maybe it'd be a way to go.

For me though, no. My fella proposed without asking permission from anyone but me. When the subject later came up he said there's no way he'd do that, a father doesn't own his daughter, if she's over 18 she doesn't need anyone's permission, and neither does he.

I couldn't begin to imagine the scenario between him and my dad if he had. I'm sure my dad would have thought he was joking!

SarahSassy

Terodil wrote: »

A marriage is between husband and wife only and nobody else.

Well if you believe that then you are only fooling yourself. Marriage in most circumstances in the merging of 2 families plus the creation of a new one...

Dont understand women who are so 'independent' that they would not want their parents to be treated with respect.

Lady

What if the girl decided she wasnt ready for marriage? But her oh had already gone and talked to her parents who are thrilled thinking its a definate yes and it turns out differently. Cant think anyone would be too pleased there.

Personally I would like my oh to ask me first and formost because it is our relationship nobody else's.

Orla K

kevmy wrote: »

Can't believe that some people would not marry the man they love and perhaps have been planning to spend the rest of their life with because he asked their father for permission. How ridiculous is that?

I said that I would not say yes, that doesn't mean I would say no, more try do it better next time.
I did have someone ask me once would I marry him, I completely ignored him and continued putting on my make up. He was always asking would I marry him I gave him loads of different answers.

Terodil

kevmy wrote: »

Can't believe that some people would not marry the man they love and perhaps have been planning to spend the rest of their life with because he asked their father for permission. How ridiculous is that?

It's a matter of principle I can understand very well: You simply do not talk about the person you love behind (her in this case) back -- especially not when life-changing choices are concerned. The partner should be the very first to be asked and should have enough time to decide. Anything else may easily be understood (or work subconsciously) as blackmail. How much more difficult is it for her to decline if the husband-in-spe has already set the scene up for a 'glorious' yes with the parents watching closely?

I don't get this (seemingly) American way of proposing in front of the entire rugby stadium either. It is the same thing, just one step to the right on the size scale.

congo_90

Absolutly! when/if I get married I'll make sure to ask the potential in-laws permission first. and. failing that... run to las vegas! muhahah (ok maybe not vegas part)

SarahSassy

Orla K wrote: »

I did have someone ask me once would I marry him, I completely ignored him and continued putting on my make up.

Well that was good manners....

SarahSassy

SarahSassy wrote: »

Dont understand women who are so 'independent' that they would not want their parents to be treated with respect.

I don't understand why telling them first AFTER she has agreed/not agreed/actually been given a chance to decide her own life/etc or even the couple both telling the parents they're considering getting married, is not respectful. I think it's quite respectful actually. I don't understand people who are so insistent on tradition without question that any amount of disrespect to the girlfriend is absolutely a-ok.

Terodil

SarahSassy wrote: »

Well if you believe that then you are only fooling yourself. Marriage in most circumstances in the merging of 2 families plus the creation of a new one...

I'm fooling myself how? The married couple may choose to maintain ties to their old families, of course, but there's nothing that tells them they have to, especially not if their parents do not agree with the marriage.

SarahSassy wrote: »

Dont understand women who are so 'independent' that they would not want their parents to be treated with respect.

What's 'independent' to do with respect?

I think you have not understood the concept of respect to begin with. Respect is something to be earned, not something that you use to buy something else or that you *have* to pay simply because you share part of your genome with that particular person.

dlofnep

Very respectful, go for it

Orla K

SarahSassy wrote: »

Well that was good manners....

I don't know why you seem so obsessed with manners, yes they can be good but he did go back to watching tv after he said it. Note he said would not will, so he wasn't actually proposing he was just wondering. Also he understood me will enough to know it wasn't bad manners on my behalf I just didn't know what to say.

Catari Jaguar

ManOfMystery wrote: »

It's nothing more than a traditional symbolic gesture. It's done as a mark of respect to the parents; after all, you may be marrying your bride but in some respect you're also marrying into her family.

I find it completely demeaning and a horrible outdated practice, I asked my boyfriend if he'd ask permission and he think's its "Sick and wrong". Will he be offering a dowry too?
No one owns me and I make my own decisions. The same goes for being "given away" at the wedding, passed from one man to the next. Or even in Gaeilge my surname means, "daughter of" then after marriage "wife of". :mad: I'm me. I own me.

If it's asking permission to join a family, then should the girl ask permission to join into her in laws family? Or is it just the man that needs to ask?

When you get married, you are making your OWN family, especially when the pitter patter of lttle feet comes along.

murfie wrote: »

Of course it has something to do with your parents, I put the question to you then, would you marry a guy that your parents didn't want you to marry and they didn't like.

Yes I would, It's none of their business. I'm the one marrying him, not them. They don't even know him. I guess i shoudl get them to pick a husband they approve of for me then yea?

If they have a problem they might see us both at their grandchildren's birthdays or at Christmas dinner, no more if they don't want to.

SarahSassy

Terodil wrote: »

I'm fooling myself how? The married couple may choose to maintain ties to their old families, of course, but there's nothing that tells them they have to, especially not if their parents do not agree with the marriage.

Thst why I said most.. Obviously it does not apply to all couples... In saying that I would not marry someone my parents didnt approve of.. They have good taste

Terodil wrote: »

What's 'independent' to do with respect?

I think you have not understood the concept of respect to begin with. Respect is something to be earned, not something that you use to buy something else or that you *have* to pay simply because you share part of your genome with that particular person.

Well respect for me, my family and friends would have to be a basic component of the make up of a partner for me. Respect cannot be bought but it is generated by effort (as you said) and if you have not made the effort to get to know my family and have them love and respect you in turn then I would not marry you.

Faith

Wow, it's something I always thought was quite romantic, and I'm genuinely shocked by all these replies saying it's demeaning and disrespectful!

SarahSassy

SarahSassy wrote: »

Well respect for me, my family and friends would be a basic component of the make up of a partner for me. Respect cannot be bought but it is generated by effort (as you said) and if you have not made the effort to get to know my family and have them love and respect you in turn then I would not marry you,.

Sarah I don't understand why you are equating not asking parents first to "not making effort to get to know the family and have them love and respect you". Should giving them a bit of gossip or asking permission be the only tool used for this? And does years of general good relationship with the in-laws get instantly negated by the failure to ask them first something that should be their daughter's decision?
Sarah, what about the respect your own parents should have enough for you that they should agree the decision is yours and not theirs?
And finally what about the respect your partner should have for you first and foremost to discuss the issue with you first? And finally, why shouldn't the woman ask the in-laws before she says yes ?

Whether the father says no or not is largely irrelevant as you can still go ahead and get married (obviously with some ill-feeling), but the act of asking is just symbolic of the respect you have for your bride's parents.

You honestly think it's more respectful to marry a girl after her father has said no than to not ask in the first place?

Terodil

SarahSassy wrote: »

Well respect for me, my family and friends would be a basic component of the make up of a partner for me. Respect cannot be bought but it is generated by effort (as you said) and if you have not made the effort to get to know my family and have them love and respect you in turn then I would not marry you,.

I agree with that statement somewhat: the way that the spouse-in-spe behaves towards the rest of the family and friends is an important aspect and shows her general attitude and personality. And personality is obviously a requirement for marriage

I just think that *this* particular question is nothing that should be used to generate just that respect. If you haven't earnt the respect of the parents at this point in time and it's solely your fault then you've lost the game anyway. TBH with you if I put myself into the shoes of a parent I'd actually *lose* all respect for the suitor because he didn't respect my daughter.

MelonieHead

ManOfMystery wrote: »

For those who think that tradition is not always right, I suppose you see no need for a hen night, white wedding dress and may as well do away with the wedded couple's first dance when you're at it.

Em, well, yes. The only requirements for a wedding are:
a legally licensed officiant
bride and groom
2 winesses

Everything else is up to the couples personal tastes.

SarahSassy

bluewolf wrote: »

Sarah I don't understand why you are equating not asking parents first to "not making effort to get to know the family and have them love and respect you". Should giving them a bit of gossip or asking permission be the only tool used for this? And does years of general good relationship with the in-laws get instantly negated by the failure to ask them first something that should be their daughter's decision?
Sarah, what about the respect your own parents should have enough for you that they should agree the decision is yours and not theirs?
And finally what about the respect your partner should have for you first and foremost to discuss the issue with you first? And finally, why shouldn't the woman ask the in-laws before she says yes ?

Look the bottom line is that I am (obviously ) a traditionalist when it comes to my parents. They dont want me to share a bed in their house with my (live in) boyfriend so I dont and I know my Dad would be honoured if my BF asked him if he could join our family so I would like it...

All I can see is that some people lose the joy in the small things and making others happy eg your parents, by needing to be independent and all 21st century....

TBH, if he doesnt know if she will say yes or react positively when he asks her then its too soon to be asking...

Terodil

SarahSassy wrote: »

Look the bottom line is that I am (obviously ) a traditionalist when it comes to my parents. They dont want me to share a bed in their house with my boyfriend so I dont and I know my Dad would be honoured if my BF asked him if he could join our family so I would like it...

Traditionally, the daughter leaves her family and joins the husband's.

SarahSassy wrote: »

All I can see is that some people lose the joy in the small things and making others happy eg your parents, by needing to be independent and all 21st century....

I'm definitely one to agree with this (e.g. general courtesy and stuff)... but please not with this question which is definitely a bomb in a relationship.

SarahSassy wrote: »

TBH, if he doesnt know if she will say yes or react positively when he asks her then its too soon to be asking...

Yeah, true, but I still can't see why he shouldn't ask HER first. I mean, if the couple (not just him) feels that their parents' consent is important and should be asked to comply with tradition, then they should take that decision together and he could still ask for her hand (after she's already agreed).

Assumptions are deadly.

greatandgood

I think there is a happy medium in this situation that respects a woman's independence AND acknowledges tradition.

You can ask the girl to marry you (or hell, maybe even she could ask you). Heck, maybe you can decide TOGETHER to get married.

Then, before announcing to anyone else, you can ask for the blessing of the girl's parents - as a couple. I think the fact that you hold off on the announcement until telling them shows an appropriate amount of respect to the bride's parents. In this day and age, I'd be surprised if they took offence at that.

SarahSassy

Terodil wrote: »

Traditionally, the daughter leaves her family and joins the husband's.

In the dark ages. We are already living together so we are a little family... I dont need to leave my (old) family to have a new one...

Anyway, for most cases that I know of the GF as instigated / wangled / expected the wedding proposal so the point is more often than not moot.

SarahSassy

Orla K wrote: »

I don't know why you seem so obsessed with manners

Cos lack of same doesnt agree with me.

I should have mentioned earlier that I do have experience in this area I was engaged before, we had discussed it, without him having asked me, he then asked my Dad (who said yes) and then he formally asked me with the ring etc...

All I am saying is that respect goes a long way... The wedding is generally a v important day for the parents too and the majority of Irish parents are old fashioned and like things to be done a certain way.. Thats the reality and they may pretend that they dont mind but I suspect that the majority of them would like it to be done the traditional way...

SarahSassy

SarahSassy wrote: »

Marriage in most circumstances in the merging of 2 families plus the creation of a new one...

SarahSassy wrote: »

I know my Dad would be honoured if my BF asked him if he could join our family ...

SarahSassy wrote: »

In the dark ages. We are already living together so we are a little family... I dont need to leave my (old) family to have a new one...

Terodil

SarahSassy wrote: »

In the dark ages. We are already living together so we are a little family... I dont need to leave my (old) family to have a new one...

You were the one who brought the whole 'joining the family' aspect into the 'asking permission' discussion (or at least supported it, cba going through the thread again).

Yes, I agree, it's a relic of the dark ages, but then if we agree on this point, why do you suggest that the man 'should' ask for permission to join the family for just this reason?

Catari Jaguar

*Why don't women have to ask the men's family?

Because women aren't as free and men need to claim their new property :rolleyes:*

From my disgruntled boyfriend

SarahSassy

SarahSassy wrote: »

All I am saying is that respect goes a long way...

Yes indeed, but you have a completely different idea of respect which seems to involve buying it outright with one "traditional" gesture

The wedding is generally a v important day for the parents too and the majority of Irish parents are old fashioned and like things to be done a certain way.. Thats the reality and they may pretend that they dont mind but I suspect that the majority of them would like it to be done the traditional way...

They've had their wedding, in most cases. A long time ago. They got to have their ceremony in whatever way.
If they want another new nice ceremony they can go re-declare their vows.

Orla K

When in doubt poll (in TLL)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055525967

SarahSassy

Terodil wrote: »

Yes, I agree, it's a relic of the dark ages, but then if we agree on this point, why do you suggest that the man 'should' ask for permission to join the family for just this reason?

What is dark ages is the idea of the woman leaving one house for another. Its not like in our parents time where the woman left her family to move in with her husband....

I think its ok for a guy to ask the Dad if he thinks its ok for him to marry his daughter not so ownership can pass from one to the other but so he knows the family are ok with it and feel that he will treat her well.

If its isnt then she should be asking herself why not (unless her Dad is a nut).

OP apologies for hijacking this post... Best of luck whatever happens and enjoy the time..