Would legalising weed slow the economic downturn?

Wertz

Jesus Juice wrote: »

People can discuss this til there blue in the face but the government will never make it legal!

You're not wrong. The backlash from ill informed or downright ignorant general public opinion on cannabis, in the event of possible decriminaisation would scare the beejabus out of any politician, probably more than severe budget cuts, current economy etc.
Gay Mitchell (I think?) was on Matt Cooper a few weeks back standing up for some comment he made in relation to the whole weed legalisation issue, making most of the points that have been posted on this site down through the years...lo and behold we have the like of Grainne Kenny coming on (why do TodayFM insist on giving this person airtime?) and spouting the same old tired bullsh*t and pandering to the biddy element of the country. It's the like of her you have to deal with and hundreds of thousands like her.
Better to just keep flying over to the dam every month and getting your jollies that way...who cares if millions of € just leave our already bankrupt country, so that punters can get to do in peace what they can't do here?

Korvanica

Grimes wrote: »

It would probably make everyone to stupid to realise they are being screwed over on a daily basis. So yeah it would solve the economic downturn because everyone would be busy giggling like idiots at the loss of their jobs.

While we are on topic can we legalise prostitution? That would generate great revenue and create jobs and I enjoy it .

Get your head out of your ar$e and learn a bit about smoking ganj before you vomit on the keyboard like that again. Most people who smoke weed have a joint or two in the evenings to chill out. Its Better than drinking alcohol or spending your time writing crap on forums that doesn't help a discussion whatsoever.

I think legalizing it would help the recession. Yes the government would tax it high, but the huge supply of it would drive the prices down and would have sellers competing etc. Yes there would still be people growing and selling illegally but not as many as it would not be as profitable as before.
jobs would be created in many sectors, growing, selling, cafes, border control and the tourism section would also boom, (imagine the amount of English coming over for short visits.)

The Gardai would not face any cutbacks or layoffs either, instead of spending time looking for dealers and suppliers they could try stop innocent people getting the fu*k beaten out of them by drunken scumbags and their mates. And also the publicans could bitch about lost profits etc form people buying weed instead of drinking, or else they could do the sensible thing and get a selling license and sell weed as well as alcohol.

Pace2008

eyresquare wrote: »

THC is meant to be bad for you in the long run.It affects your memory and concentration levels.If i got the chance to smoke illegal substances like weed or hashishe i wouldn't touch it.It should never be legalized.If it was legalized it would leave the whole country dumb and out of their minds all the time.Imagine going to your local supermarket and meeting all these drug users looking for their munchies with their red eyes and drowsey,out of their mind.Ireland wouldn't be able to put up with these type of people and it would male our country look awful.

Stop these terrible petitions now before it becomes too late and our great nation is ruined by these drug infectees

How can you be so arrogant as to comment on a subject it's woefully obvious you've never researched? Same goes to anyone who comes out with uninformed nonsense like 'all weed smokers are hippies on the dole.'

Queen-Mise wrote: »

i am absolutely behind the legalizing of all drugs.

Take the money out of criminals and terrorists hands.

Create jobs, hand out contracts to honest/fair countries.

It would bring the most profitable illegal industry into tax net.

For an end note, the damage that these drugs do cannot be used as a reason not to leave them illegal, not when alcohol and cigs are legal.

Both of those kills tens of thousands more than drugs.

And comments like this are just as bad and are actually damaging for the cause you support. Saying that drugs should be legalised because they're less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes (and many of them are) is an overused, garbage argument that always reminds me of a one-year-old crying for a rattle because the other kid has one. Saying that 'all drugs should be legalised' is even worse. Do you think that legalisation of Methamphetine would benefit the country? Should PCP be legalised? Bromo-Dragonfly? All drugs are very different and each one should be judged on its own merits. You're treating drugs as if they're all the same, which is the attitude ignorant 'norms' have - MDMA, coke and weed are the one thing, some purple-spotted pill growing out of hash plants that you inject directly into your balls.

ScumLord

eyresquare wrote: »

THC is meant to be bad for you in the long run.It affects your memory and concentration levels.If i got the chance to smoke illegal substances like weed or hashishe i wouldn't touch it.It should never be legalized.If it was legalized it would leave the whole country dumb and out of their minds all the time.Imagine going to your local supermarket and meeting all these drug users looking for their munchies with their red eyes and drowsey,out of their mind.Ireland wouldn't be able to put up with these type of people and it would male our country look awful.

Stop these terrible petitions now before it becomes too late and our great nation is ruined by these drug infectees

You must have no self control if you're so afraid you and all your friends will turn into drug addicts overnight if cannabis became legal. Cannabis is already widely used and no country has fallen apart because of it. This is just typical tabloid scaremongering based on no facts what so ever.

Like I said cannabis is widely used as it is, legalizing would free up the garda and legal system to deal with other issues. It would take that money off criminal gangs and put it in the hands of the government and legitimate businesses.

You may have something against people using cannabis but the fact is most "drug crime" is only related to drugs, it's not directly caused by drug use. Prohibition has created more problems than it solved, not only that but it's created an environment that see's drug related crime escalate year on year.

5318008!

Pace2008 wrote: »

And comments like this are just as bad and are actually damaging for the cause you support. Saying that drugs should be legalised because they're less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes (and many of them are) is an overused, garbage argument that always reminds me of a one-year-old crying for a rattle because the other kid has one.

It's the most valid argument there is, and sadly it's one of only two arguments that seems to work. Alcohol and cigarettes are legal and the world hasn't fallen apart yet. Legalise safer drugs and it won't either.

Saying that 'all drugs should be legalised' is even worse. Do you think that legalisation of Methamphetine would benefit the country? Should PCP be legalised? Bromo-Dragonfly? All drugs are very different and each one should be judged on its own merits. You're treating drugs as if they're all the same, which is the attitude ignorant 'norms' have - MDMA, coke and weed are the one thing, some purple-spotted pill growing out of hash plants that you inject directly into your balls.

Well I do anyway.Methamphetamine is a real rural usa type drug that people would only use if they didn't have access to other drugs. You won't find many people in Ireland doing it, because they have access to safer drugs like cocaine and amphetamine. If all drugs (including meth) were legalised i really don't think it'd be any different.

And anyway, if it's so bad (and imo, it is the worst commonly used drug out there) why is it prescribed to kids with ADHD in america?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn

b28

Why don't you ask the Dutch???

b28

5318008! wrote: »

And anyway, if it's so bad (and imo, it is the worst commonly used drug out there) why is it prescribed to kids with ADHD in america?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn

well as a person who suffered adhd and was placed on a stimulant, i would say kids are forced on it to help them concentrate and behave!
however, that has nothing to do with abuse of methamphetamine other than it's more easily accessible through people selling their prescription!

Purple Gorilla

I'm not sure if it's been posted, but here's a very positive report on Portugal, which a good few years ago legalised personal possession of some drugs.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Pop quiz: Which European country has the most liberal drug laws? (Hint: It's not the Netherlands.)

Although its capital is notorious among stoners and college kids for marijuana haze–filled "coffee shops," Holland has never actually legalized cannabis — the Dutch simply don't enforce their laws against the shops. The correct answer is Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.

Portugal's case study is of some interest to lawmakers in the U.S., confronted now with the violent overflow of escalating drug gang wars in Mexico. The U.S. has long championed a hard-line drug policy, supporting only international agreements that enforce drug prohibition and imposing on its citizens some of the world's harshest penalties for drug possession and sales. Yet America has the highest rates of cocaine and marijuana use in the world, and while most of the E.U. (including Holland) has more liberal drug laws than the U.S., it also has less drug use.

"I think we can learn that we should stop being reflexively opposed when someone else does [decriminalize] and should take seriously the possibility that anti-user enforcement isn't having much influence on our drug consumption," says Mark Kleiman, author of the forthcoming When Brute Force Fails: How to Have Less Crime and Less Punishment and director of the drug policy analysis program at UCLA. Kleiman does not consider Portugal a realistic model for the U.S., however, because of differences in size and culture between the two countries.

But there is a movement afoot in the U.S., in the legislatures of New York State, California and Massachusetts, to reconsider our overly punitive drug laws. Recently, Senators Jim Webb and Arlen Specter proposed that Congress create a national commission, not unlike Portugal's, to deal with prison reform and overhaul drug-sentencing policy. As Webb noted, the U.S. is home to 5% of the global population but 25% of its prisoners.

At the Cato Institute in early April, Greenwald contended that a major problem with most American drug policy debate is that it's based on "speculation and fear mongering," rather than empirical evidence on the effects of more lenient drug policies. In Portugal, the effect was to neutralize what had become the country's number one public health problem, he says.

"The impact in the life of families and our society is much lower than it was before decriminalization," says Joao Castel-Branco Goulao, Portugual's "drug czar" and president of the Institute on Drugs and Drug Addiction, adding that police are now able to re-focus on tracking much higher level dealers and larger quantities of drugs.

Peter Reuter, a professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Maryland, like Kleiman, is skeptical. He conceded in a presentation at the Cato Institute that "it's fair to say that decriminalization in Portugal has met its central goal. Drug use did not rise." However, he notes that Portugal is a small country and that the cyclical nature of drug epidemics — which tends to occur no matter what policies are in place — may account for the declines in heroin use and deaths.

The Cato report's author, Greenwald, hews to the first point: that the data shows that decriminalization does not result in increased drug use. Since that is what concerns the public and policymakers most about decriminalization, he says, "that is the central concession that will transform the debate."

Belfast

Upward Spiral wrote: »

There's been alot of talk in the US about how legalizing marijuana may reduce the effects of the recession, by creating jobs and taxation etc. Do you think this is a viable idea that could be adopted in Ireland or is it just stoners trying to get everyone else to chillax about it?

No.

The problem with the economy go a lot deeper that are people allowed to smoke pot.

carlmango11

eyresquare wrote: »

THC is meant to be bad for you in the long run.It affects your memory and concentration levels.If i got the chance to smoke illegal substances like weed or hashishe i wouldn't touch it.It should never be legalized.If it was legalized it would leave the whole country dumb and out of their minds all the time.Imagine going to your local supermarket and meeting all these drug users looking for their munchies with their red eyes and drowsey,out of their mind.Ireland wouldn't be able to put up with these type of people and it would male our country look awful.

Stop these terrible petitions now before it becomes too late and our great nation is ruined by these drug infectees

In fairness someone whos never tried it isnt really in the position to argue against it because they wouldnt know what its truly like

Belfast

Grimes wrote: »

It would probably make everyone to stupid to realise they are being screwed over on a daily basis. So yeah it would solve the economic downturn because everyone would be busy giggling like idiots at the loss of their jobs.

While we are on topic can we legalise prostitution? That would generate great revenue and create jobs and I enjoy it .

You do not need dope to make people not realise they are being screwed over on a daily basis. This happened all through the Celtic tiger years without everybody smoking pot.

Legalise prostitution why not.

It was in Dublin until the early 1920s.
it was Licenced by the Dublin Metropolitan Police in Brothels.

5318008!

b28 wrote: »

well as a person who suffered adhd and was placed on a stimulant, i would say kids are forced on it to help them concentrate and behave!
however, that has nothing to do with abuse of methamphetamine other than it's more easily accessible through people selling their prescription!

addiction wise yes (because you're taking it orally and not smoking it), and the doses are lower so you won't see the same side effects, but either way you're still taking a drug that (through killing off brain cells) permanently decreases your ability to feel motivation/pleasure.

Why it's still used over there (albeit not that often) baffles me, especially when much safer drugs like methylphenidate and amphetamine are equally effective.

b28

b28 wrote: »

Why don't you ask the Dutch???

inlichtingen

knoximus

Q: What are the other uses of cannabis?

A: Besides social use and medicinal use, as a fibre for paper, rope and cloth, as a building material and board for furniture, packing material, animal bedding, foodstuff, prevents land erosion, to make plastic, paints, varnish, and sealant, as a fuel, as a lubricant etc.

Could create many jobs there.

JC 2K3

That's hemp, which is legal.

ScumLord

JC 2K3 wrote: »

That's hemp, which is legal.

It's not really legal you need a special license to grow it and there's all kinds of ridiculous rules, like burning all the flowering heads even though a field of them wouldn't get you high.

drunkmonkey

Can you be charged for smoking it if it's part of your religious cermony?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_use_of_cannabis

Grimes

Grimes wrote: »

It would probably make everyone to stupid to realise they are being screwed over on a daily basis. So yeah it would solve the economic downturn because everyone would be busy giggling like idiots at the loss of their jobs.

While we are on topic can we legalise prostitution? That would generate great revenue and create jobs and I enjoy it .

Totally agree with you there with legalizing prostitution. It's the oldest profession and never done anyone any harm. Having it illegal makes it suitable for the criminal to reap all the benefits. And it might do something about the suicide rate in this country which is spiraling out of control because most people cant seem to get a shag.

Spread

daveharnett wrote: »

I'm going to attempt some rough figures. I wouldn't make much of the cost savings to the state - guards tend not to waste time on weed, and not much organised crime is funded primarily by it.

but...

Lets say that 100% tax allows legal weed to undercut the price of black market weed. Lets say 2% of the population are regular to heavy (chronic:pac:) users - average E50 per week spend.

so thats E25*80,000 users*52 weeks = 104,000,000 per anum, plus lets say another 50 for occasional users. Not a huge amount, but hardly chicken feed either.

Oh, and that's assuming that legalisation has no effect on consumption/demand, which many people here seem to think it will. I am inclined to think that it wouldn't.

Daveharnett! Hey baby! How about starting your own party ...... the LJHDP (Lady Jane Happy Days Party). You seem to have a good handle on the economy so you get the financial portfolio. You could rope Dunphy in for Health/Pharmaceuticals etc. Don Quixote for Energy. Brendan Kilkenny for Sport. Curley Wee for Pandemics etc. How and when can we join?
Cpt. Diehard! I fully agree. But the council should first fix up the sidewalks - otherwise more going out in compo to the girls than coming in on revenue. Incidentally, while we are on the subject, you've got a great name. Let's hope it proves very auspicious.

Shulgin

Interesting that Arnie is proposing that its time for debate on this issue in California.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger says he is open to debate the legalization of marijuana for recreational use in California, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. His remarks come as a San Francisco lawmaker has introduced a bill to regulate marijuana like alcohol, with people over 21 years old allowed to grow, buy, sell and possess cannabis, the newspaper says.
An analysis by the State Board of Equalization says the proposal to impose a $50-an-ounce levy on sales of marijuana would boost state revenues by about $1.3 billion a year.
Schwarzenegger, in responding to a reporter's question, says it is not time to allow the state to regulate and tax pot, but adds, "I think it's time for debate. I think all of those ideas of creating extra revenues -- I'm always for an open debate on it."
In 1996, California voters legalized marijuana for medical use with permission from a physician, although this still violates federal law.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/05/schwarzenegger-open-to-debate-legalizing-pot.html