Asking parents/fathers permission to marry

metaoblivia

I don't have particularly strong feelings one way or the other. I think asking permission works for some couples and doesn't work for others. Different strokes for different folks. A man who's thinking of proposing should know his SO well enough to have a good idea of which camp she falls into. I generally see it as nothing more than a sweet gesture and don't look too much into it beyond that.
Now personally, I think I would fall into the category of not having my SO ask my father's permission, not because of any personal issue I have with it, just because of the way my family is. We don't have weddings, we just elope. And my Dad is very hard to contact. He moved about a year ago and still hasn't told anyone exactly where it is he moved to. So, actually, I'd be impressed if my SO asked my father's permission, not because of any tradition, but because he managed to find him.

dotsman

kizzyr wrote: »

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. However, when you use phrases like "male protector role" how am I (or anyone else) expected to read that?

iguana wrote: »

The phrase "male protector role" certainly implied that to me.

iguana wrote: »

But the context it was used in, that the husband will be taking that mantle from the father, certainly implied this was a given. Not that it was the (arrogant - imo) way some men think.

It's not about men wanting/choosing that role, or women needing that role. It is very simply the fact that this role is a natural instinct in men (to protect their families). There is no (sound-minded) man alive today or throughout history who does not have that instinct ingrained in them.

iguana

dotsman wrote: »

It's not about men wanting/choosing that role, or women needing that role. It is very simply the fact that this role is a natural instinct in men (to protect their families). There is no (sound-minded) man alive today or throughout history who does not have that instinct ingrained in them.

Do you think that women don't feel the same? There are few things in nature that fight more fiercely than a mother protecting her cubs. Women feel just as strongly about protecting our families, we may not have the same physical strength, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't destroy anyone who hurt the people we love.

As I always say, a man may be stronger than me, but his eyeball is as soft as a grape.:):eek:

dotsman

iguana wrote: »

Do you think that women don't feel the same? There are few things in nature that fight more fiercely than a mother protecting her cubs. Women feel just as strongly about protecting our families, we may not have the same physical strength, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't destroy anyone who hurt the people we love.

Precisely my point. Your post reflects your instinct (as a woman) on this. However, a man's instinct goes one further and includes his woman/wife. The husband-to-be is taking over the mantle from the father and will fight for/protect his new wife just as much as the father has up to now.

Despite all the changes in society in the past 100 years, I firmly believe that if another titanic was to occur, you would find the same proportion of men to women going down with boat (in a life and death situation, natural instincts take hold as opposed to social standards).

iguana wrote: »

As I always say, a man may be stronger than me, but his eyeball is as soft as a grape.:):eek:

Go for the groin. You need merely touch it the wrong way and the guy is on the ground suffering a thousand deaths:D (please use this advise responsibly!)

Whispered

kizzyr wrote: »

I'd see it as being disrespectful towards me and as I am the one that would be marrying the man in question surely my respect and feelings are more important that those of my father? Just because its traditional doesn't make it sweet or thoughtful, many traditions are in fact anything other than this.

Did you read what I said? He asked me, then asked my dad for his blessing. When you get/got engaged I assume you're not going to go into you house and say "DAD I'M GETTING MARRIED AND I REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK". You will or at least should want your families blessing on such a huge decision and traditionally this comes from the father. So yes, to ask the father for his blessing is very traditional, sweet and thoughtful.

kizzyr

helena.ryan wrote: »

Did you read what I said? He asked me, then asked my dad for his blessing. When you get/got engaged I assume you're not going to go into you house and say "DAD I'M GETTING MARRIED AND I REALLY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK". You will or at least should want your families blessing on such a huge decision and traditionally this comes from the father. So yes, to ask the father for his blessing is very traditional, sweet and thoughtful.

In your opinion, I couldn't disagree with you more. When we decide to tell other people that we are planning on getting married it will be when everything is booked and organised and then we will tell our families that we are getting married and when. As we've been together for so long now (almost 10 years) I know that my parents like him, accept him and are happy with our relationship as are his with me. Neither of us need or want any further or greater blessing or acceptance from them of our relationship.

kizzyr

dotsman wrote: »

Precisely my point. Your post reflects your instinct (as a woman) on this. However, a man's instinct goes one further and includes his woman/wife. The husband-to-be is taking over the mantle from the father and will fight for/protect his new wife just as much as the father has up to now.

Despite all the changes in society in the past 100 years, I firmly believe that if another titanic was to occur, you would find the same proportion of men to women going down with boat (in a life and death situation, natural instincts take hold as opposed to social standards).


Go for the groin. You need merely touch it the wrong way and the guy is on the ground suffering a thousand deaths:D (please use this advise responsibly!)

That has nothing to do with the fact that women give birth and therefore it actually makes more sense that they as future procreators would be saved??

Hagar

kizzyr wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the fact that women give birth and therefore it actually makes more sense that they as future procreators would be saved??

Are the going to do it on their own? Fair play, I'd pay good money to see that.
Surely it makes more sense to let the weaker women perish and breed from those who are strong enough to survive or lucky enough to be elsewhere? Lucky is also a genetic factor.

iguana

dotsman wrote: »

Precisely my point. Your post reflects your instinct (as a woman) on this. However, a man's instinct goes one further and includes his woman/wife. The husband-to-be is taking over the mantle from the father and will fight for/protect his new wife just as much as the father has up to now.

I can only speak for myself but my protection instincts go for my husband, my parents and my brothers. I have floored a guy for threatening my husband. I've beat up kids who bullied my brothers (when I was a kid too.) Perhaps I'm unusual, I know I have high levels of testosterone for a woman, though thankfully not enough to affect me physically.

dotsman wrote: »

Go for the groin. You need merely touch it the wrong way and the guy is on the ground suffering a thousand deaths:D (please use this advise responsibly!)

I know a number of good ways to hurt the groin, for example an open handed slap will hurt more than a punch as the force is less important than the amount of nerve endings you hurt. But men do know instinctualy to protect their groin area, so it can be hard to make contact with. But there are plenty of other levelers when it comes to women fighting men. Eyeballs, the throat, a human ear will come off if 8lbs of pressure is applied. That type of thing.:)

JC 2K3

kizzyr wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the fact that women give birth and therefore it actually makes more sense that they as future procreators would be saved??

Err... the possibility of an equal amount of men as women surviving as opposed more women than men, on a boat of like 1500 people, having any impact on procreation whatsoever is absurd. There're 6 billion people in the world ffs!

The only time potential for procreation could ever be presented as a factor in who to save in some accident would require some kind of horrific, apocalyptic scenario to have occurred....

iguana

Hagar wrote: »

Are the going to do it on their own? Fair play, I'd pay good money to see that.

Well farmers usually just keep a handful of studs compared to hundreds of female livestock. Males can impregnate 200 females in the time that it takes a woman to carry one baby. If you were concerned about survival of the species it makes sense to save women:men to a ratio of 100:1. Not that a ship going down is a survival of the species type thing.

Scarinae

I still think that it is far more likely that I would be the one telling my parents after I had accepted, rather than him asking them before asking me. I would be the one seeking my parents' blessing, not him - and I do mean parents, there is no way I would break news like that to my Dad without telling my Mum!

dotsman

kizzyr wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the fact that women give birth and therefore it actually makes more sense that they as future procreators would be saved??

It has everything to do with that. I couldn't agree more. And that's why it is part of the natural male instinct to be so protective. I'm not saying that women aren't protective. I'm just saying that men are more so, especially in a life and death situation (where natural instincts take command).


P.S. When discussing gender/cultural traits etc, it is merely a generalisation, and there are definitely exceptions. There are 6 billion people on the planet at the moment. Even if even 5% are the exception, that's still a hell of a lot of people!

SeekUp

iguana wrote: »

I know a number of good ways to hurt the groin, for example an open handed slap will hurt more than a punch as the force is less important than the amount of nerve endings you hurt. But men do know instinctualy to protect their groin area, so it can be hard to make contact with. But there are plenty of other levelers when it comes to women fighting men. Eyeballs, the throat, a human ear will come off if 8lbs of pressure is applied. That type of thing.:)

Sitting in work all day . . . but it's only now that I learn something useful.

b3t4

Himself and myself have discussed this one. It's me more than him that wants to get married but if we discuss marriage he only has a traditional view of it. He thinks it's proper to ask my father for my hand but I think it's absurd. I'd feel very much overlooked if he went to my father before he went to me. I wouldn't say no but I would question how much he really knew about me if he did ask my father.

For me a marriage will be about the two of us first, family second and that's how I want our marriage to start out.

I think it's up to every female to decide whether she would like her father asked or not and I think it's up to every male who's doing the asking to know what their partner would like.

A.

kizzyr

Hagar wrote: »

Are the going to do it on their own? Fair play, I'd pay good money to see that.
Surely it makes more sense to let the weaker women perish and breed from those who are strong enough to survive or lucky enough to be elsewhere? Lucky is also a genetic factor.

The Lucky Gene? Oddly enough I don't think that really exists.
Re: reproduction,it takes far fewer men than women to reproduce.

shellyboo

iguana wrote: »

But the context it was used in, that the husband will be taking that mantle from the father, certainly implied this was a given. Not that it was the (arrogant - imo) way some men think.

The context was "assuming the same male protector role that my father has done". MY father. Read it again? The same role that MY FATHER has done.

Me me me. My situation. Said not a word about men generally or anybody else's situation. Was merely explaining why I think it's a nice gesture, and explaining why (because I was asked to) the hypothetical future husband wouldn't ask my mother. The answer was to do with the roles the men in y life take. All subjective, which I stated on more than one occasion.

Sparkles09

God love you Shellboo, desperately trying to make a point!

Would be super helpful if people would READ posts first instead of looking for excuses to get on their high horse.

I totally undersand where you're coming from and I couldn't agree more. Your Dad is obviously very important to you and you want him to know that as his little girl you haven't just ditched him for the new man in your life.

I can relate to that - my dad is one of my very best friends.

However, in my opinion, I would prefer to be asked first. Simply because, although he's my dad and has looked after me (especially when I was being bullied at school etc.) he's not me. I'm the who'll make the final decision.

He's the first one I'd tell though (along with my mother) and he'd be delighted for me because he loves my OH. As my pal and as a great friend of my OH, we already know that

I used to want my dad to be asked first - but I've changed my mind as my relationship had progressed over the years - its too special a moment to share with anyone else beforehand!

On the topic of knowing you're getting married and going through the "charade" of a proposal; I know I'll marry my partner as we've talked about it lots. BUT I have no idea when we'll get to it - maybe this year, next year or in 5 years! I want to be suprised and I want him to do it when he's ready. I won't coerce him into it - I know its on the cards at some point in our lives and thats enough for me

Fair play to the Apple hardware people - if everyone in the world was the same then it'd be awfully boring! Every wedding would be the same! I think its great to see the different personalities coming through of the different couples who's weddings I've been to!

shellyboo

Sparkles09 wrote: »

God love you Shellboo, desperately trying to make a point!

Would be super helpful if people would READ posts first instead of looking for excuses to get on their high horse.

I totally undersand where you're coming from and I couldn't agree more. Your Dad is obviously very important to you and you want him to know that as his little girl you haven't just ditched him for the new man in your life.

I'm just vaguely annoyed that I went out of my way to painfully point out several times that I was only talking about me and that it was all subjective... and I still get hopped off for making generalisations. I didn't.

I completely get that some people wouldn't like it... I was just trying to give those people a glimpse at why I would, that's all. A different point of view.

Ginny

TBH to me its not about tradition, or ownership of the woman but respect, either way would be fine with me, but if he did talk to my parents first I doubt it would be asking permission, more of a "I love your daughter, we've talked about marriage, and I'm planning on proposing on X, just letting you know" sorta thing.

iguana

shellyboo wrote: »

The context was "assuming the same male protector role that my father has done". MY father. Read it again? The same role that MY FATHER has done.

Me me me. My situation. Said not a word about men generally or anybody else's situation. Was merely explaining why I think it's a nice gesture, and explaining why (because I was asked to) the hypothetical future husband wouldn't ask my mother. The answer was to do with the roles the men in y life take. All subjective, which I stated on more than one occasion.

Do you really want to spend your life with a man who assumes a "male protector role" over you? And who assumes that up until he takes that mantle your father has that role?

shellyboo

iguana wrote: »

Do you really want to spend your life with a man who assumes a "male protector role" over you? And who assumes that up until he takes that mantle your father has that role?

Yes, I do. You don't know me, iguana, kindly refrain from judging me on my life based on a post in an internet forum. I'm perfectly happy with the men in my life and their role. That's not the point of this thread. You'll notice I didn't single anyone else out on what I consider to be WAY over the top reactions to a simple gesture, don't start picking on me.

iguana

shellyboo wrote: »

Yes, I do. You don't know me, iguana, kindly refrain from judging me on my life based on a post in an internet forum. I'm perfectly happy with the men in my life and their role. That's not the point of this thread. You'll notice I didn't single anyone else out on what I consider to be WAY over the top reactions to a simple gesture, don't start picking on me.

I'm not picking on you, I was just curious, based on other posts of yours on other topics I was surprised you'd feel that way.

shellyboo

iguana wrote: »

I'm not picking on you, I was just curious, based on other posts of yours on other topics I was surprised you'd feel that way.

Let me settle my heckles then

I don't see the fact that my Dad holds that role as exclusive from me being independent and capable. I certainly don't NEED him to protect me, nor any man... however, I think the fact that he has held that role has enabled me to develop beyond needing it, if you know what I mean.

He was always my fallback net, it allowed me to take risks and strike out on my own in ways I may not have had the courage to if I were completely on my own, with no support. Maybe that makes me weak or soft... in fact it almost definitely does... but I guess I'm lucky. I would see myself as lucky. I wouldn't have been brave enough without the support.

And along with the support came the expectations. So while he was (and is) supportive and encouraging, I was under no delusions that *this* is what was expected of me and no less than *this* would do. So he drove me to achieve while also being supportive of my choices.

Maybe 'male protector role' was badly worded... but I just can't put it into proper words. I know my Dad is always there for me, no matter what. And I mean no matter what. And because he has such unwavering faith in me, it would kill me to disappoint him. So I don't disappoint him, or I try my damndest not to.

And I think we have an awesome relationship. I would kill to find a partner who I could relate to in the same way, quite frankly. It's mutual respect, but a respect that leaves me feeling safe and wanting to be better and do better at everything.

I actually feel very exposed posting this, because I know some people will see it as contradictory to my other views... but the way I see it is, he's my Dad... he just happens to be male... if I had this relationship with my Mum, would anyone question it? I don't think so.

I'll just reiterate - I don't need or expect to be protected by anyone, male or female. I can live my own life, independent of men. But I think I would be a fool to reject or demean the kind of love, care and support my Dad has given me just because he's a man and it mightn't fit in with certain feminist ideals.

Hagar

iguana wrote: »

If you were concerned about survival of the species it makes sense to save women:men to a ratio of 100:1.

You missed a very important point, nobody is interested in the survival of the species as such, they are only interested in the survival of their own progeny. If everyone else's perish well then that's less competition for my descendants. That's how nature really works. The only reason to save 100 females is so that I can procreate with them, not anyone else.

Figuratively speaking of course, not me, I'm a nice guy.

Nevyn

Yes I would expect this to be done.
It had nothing to do with my father owning me but to do with family, tradition and honour; also him having the balls to stand up and do so. It also affords my father to impress upon him how cherished I am and that I have family and will not be unsupported and yes totally in the treat her well or else sort of a way.

These days that type of a talk can often happen when a couple move in together.

Yes I do want a strong capable adult as a partner, for I am a strong and capable adult and I want them to help me look after the people I care about in my life, to have my back, to be supportive and from time to time be strong when I can not or so I do not have to be, so I can be tired and emotional and have a strop knowing that I will not be judged and a cup of tea will be made for me and I will get a hug so that I can then be strong again for myself, him and the other important people in my life.

I don't want a person I have to poke and prod to do the right thing and to stand up for themselves and others or have to make excuses for or makes me cringe when they lessen their honour and mine my extension.

Twice my Dad has been asked for my hand, the first time he was asked before I was, which didn't go well and in the end I never said yes and there was no engagement as I knew I was too young.
The second time around it was asked for with me present and my Dad looked at me and asked if I was sure, he then suggested that my intended read the taming of the shrew but he didn't know it and said he had no interest in Shakespear my Dad raised an eyebrow at that and asked had he seen
'Kiss me Kate' and when the answer was no, my Dad laughed and said "Oh well, you can't say I didn't warn you" and despite going on two have two children I have never married and am currently single

I don't know if I will ever marry in this life time, but if I am it has to be person who understands family, tradition and honour and why such things as asking are important.