HSE closes centre for patients - but retains staff

SMCG

I know a person well who about 2 years ago moved from private to public sector doing the same thing but lower workload (ie is bored some days) paid €16,000 a year more instantly, all govt perks like pension and ENORMOUS amounts of holiday, parental and sick leave that we don't get in the private sector. Told me that the boss takes the piss and was on sick leave for 6 months and was seen out shopping etc in that time completely well.

It makes me so angry! My partner's job was cut to 2 days per week and I work 3, we have 2 kids. On breadline.

That's not opinion or theory. Thats real people.

kraggy

Head The Wall wrote: »

Gaeilgegrinds I presume you get paid for that work you do during your holidays. So you are getting paid twice, the point still stands!!!

Most people when they get holidays take them because they need them but ye get so much holidays that ye can take on another job to pass the time

Have you ever taught a class full of children?

The holidays teachers get are badly needed. You should try teaching for a prolonged period of time. It's a total burnout.

Also, the pay isn't up to much considering how long it takes to qualify.

doolox

Teachers are not unique in having to field a large number of demanding "clients" on their own for extended periods of time. Most service type jobs of any appreciable skill level are like that because with ever increasing competition and process improvement schemes more and more people are taken out of the work place and more is asked of the remaining staff.
With mobile phones and internet connections people can be tracked all day at work and there can be no excuses to take a 5-minute breather.
Travel during working hours for most low-ranking employees has been replaced by video online conferencing so they don't even get the perk of free travel to foreign parts on company business anymore.
Monitoring systems can quickly tell who is performing and who isn't leading to a Darwinian performance race among employees not to be slowest and risk getting made redundant. Teachers used to use the excuse of the nature of class-room work as a justification for their short hours, typically 5-6 hours a day, 22 hrs a week.
Trouble is most jobs have become equally intensive but the hours haven't been reduced to compensate. Most people still work 39 hr weeks,8 hr days and 48 weeks a year as if their jobs were the same as 30 years ago.

Zzippy

doolox wrote: »

Teachers are not unique in having to field a large number of demanding "clients" on their own for extended periods of time. Most service type jobs of any appreciable skill level are like that because with ever increasing competition and process improvement schemes more and more people are taken out of the work place and more is asked of the remaining staff.
With mobile phones and internet connections people can be tracked all day at work and there can be no excuses to take a 5-minute breather.
Travel during working hours for most low-ranking employees has been replaced by video online conferencing so they don't even get the perk of free travel to foreign parts on company business anymore.
Monitoring systems can quickly tell who is performing and who isn't leading to a Darwinian performance race among employees not to be slowest and risk getting made redundant. Teachers used to use the excuse of the nature of class-room work as a justification for their short hours, typically 5-6 hours a day, 22 hrs a week.
Trouble is most jobs have become equally intensive but the hours haven't been reduced to compensate. Most people still work 39 hr weeks,8 hr days and 48 weeks a year as if their jobs were the same as 30 years ago.

Do you actually know what you're talking about, or are you just making stuff up? Video conferencing for low-ranking staff? Where? And free travel to carry out work isn't exactly a perk - you're travelling for work.. :rolleyes:

Teachers don't just work during classroom hours, they spend many hours at home correcting homework and working on class plans. I know, my mother is a primary schoool teacher and spends a huge amount of time at home working on these tasks. Like another poster said, if you had ever tried teachin you would know how stressful it is.

Head The Wall

When teachers work up enough hours during the months they do attend school to compensate for getting such long holidays then they can come back and argue this point. They would swear they are the only people that have tough jobs

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

Video conferencing for low-ranking staff? Where?

Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings. Granted, sometimes it's only an audio-conference and not video. And yes, work travel used to be a "perk" because you got to go places you normally wouldn't visit, and you had some "slack" time while actually travelling.

Teachers work long hours during term times. But they have lots of non-term-time weeks. And outside of core classroom hours, they have a lot more freedom than most workers about when these hours are worked. They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should. And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count.

doubleglaze

JustMary, I'm a second level teacher and I agreed with everything you said up until this point (everything bar the "teachers work long hours during term times" bit - some, unfortunately, do the minimum):

"They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should." Please explain that one, cos you've completely lost me there!

The next point is simply wrong (if it were true I'd agree with you):
"And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count."

mrsweebri

Class teaching is the crappest most miserable job I've ever done. The kids were great, but the school environment and curricular system were a nightmare (both in Scotland and Ireland, both first and second level). I gave it up, holidays and all for much worse pay and less stability and I've never been happier or healthier.

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings. Granted, sometimes it's only an audio-conference and not video. And yes, work travel used to be a "perk" because you got to go places you normally wouldn't visit, and you had some "slack" time while actually travelling.

Teachers work long hours during term times. But they have lots of non-term-time weeks. And outside of core classroom hours, they have a lot more freedom than most workers about when these hours are worked. They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should. And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count.

You are talking so much rubbish I think you're just making it up now, and haven't actually got a clue what you're talking about. Either that or you're trolling. In fact I'm struggling to remember a single positive post in this forum from you. You really are a miserable person, I feel sorry for you.

Webbs

SMCG wrote: »

I know a person well who about 2 years ago moved from private to public sector doing the same thing but lower workload (ie is bored some days) paid €16,000 a year more instantly, all govt perks like pension and ENORMOUS amounts of holiday, parental and sick leave that we don't get in the private sector. Told me that the boss takes the piss and was on sick leave for 6 months and was seen out shopping etc in that time completely well.

It makes me so angry! My partner's job was cut to 2 days per week and I work 3, we have 2 kids. On breadline.

That's not opinion or theory. Thats real people.

Everyone can come up with examples of people working in the private or public sector who have 'bucked the system', have got good pay, bonuses, holidays etc. You can be angry with that person but dont tar everyone with the same brush.
I chose to stay in the semipublic system both here and the UK and as a result have had lower pay, no bonuses etc over many many years which would have been payed to my private sector collegues. I chose it as it offered more flexibility in my line of work, I didnt complain that I was getting poor pay at the time, it was my choice, as it was most peoples choice over the past years to choose their line of employment, the public sector (both here and the Uk) until very recent years would have been ridiculed as being poorly payed etc.
People cant have their cake eat it and then complain because they have been greedy and other people still have some cake left.
This is a generalisation not aimed at you personally as I am in a similar position regarding loss of household income and struggling to cope as most people are.
This blame and counter blame between the workers in the various sectors is only deflecting attention away from the real issue and that is the incompetance of the current government

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

You are talking so much rubbish I think you're just making it up now, and haven't actually got a clue what you're talking about. Either that or you're trolling.

My last job, for a multi-national, involved spending a LOT of time organising running audio-conferences for people working on the same project from sites around the world. My job before that, for a public-sector organisation, included being on a working party to implement video-conferenceing throughout the department (nationwide), and then many other project that I was on used vid-cons instead of travelling. A lot earlier in my career, I did a lot of business travel for things that I'm certain would not be done face to face any more. So I think I know what I'm talking about.

Zzippy wrote: »

In fact I'm struggling to remember a single positive post in this forum from you. You really are a miserable person, I feel sorry for you.

I normally don't stoop to responding to this sort of comment, but am making an exception just for you! Suggest you take a trip to Specsavers before reviewing these from the last few days:

Recommending a lunch place:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59714869&postcount=16

Denouncing racism, and recommending a local business that I think is particularly good:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59724124&postcount=13

Giving transport information, and making the OP'er aware of a safety "challenge" they could face:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59682256&postcount=5

Suggesting evening activities that don't involve drinking:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59632345&postcount=5

doubleglaze

has a particularly draining effect on teachers:

A few years ago, I was contracted to work in an office for the week of my Feb. mid-term holidays (completely non-school related work, involved working in a laboratory).

Because I was very rusty in the field, I had to work flat out, from 9 o clock til 9pm, every day from the Monday 'til the Friday. I barely had time to eat. I must have put in about 55 hours that week.

The thing I remarked at the end of that hectic week was that, although the work was intensive, I wasn't half as tired at the end of the week as I normally would be after an ordinary day's teaching. I found that very interesting.

I figure that the reason why I found a day's teaching more tiring than a full week's work was because when one teaches a group of kids, one is constantly multi-tasking at a ferocious rate, whereas, in the lab job, I was either working with one or two (sane) adults or on my own. The laboratory work involved very little multi-tasking. It was a doddle really compared to teaching.

I should add that I love teaching. Teaching one-to-one is a doddle and involves very little multi-tasking, whereas teaching classes of 15-35 is a singularly energy-draining job (mentally and emotionally).

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings. Granted, sometimes it's only an audio-conference and not video. And yes, work travel used to be a "perk" because you got to go places you normally wouldn't visit, and you had some "slack" time while actually travelling.

Teachers work long hours during term times. But they have lots of non-term-time weeks. And outside of core classroom hours, they have a lot more freedom than most workers about when these hours are worked. They also tend to be more unwilling to adopt standardised systems than would be tolerated in other industries, so administrative tasks take them longer than they should. And when they're talking about their "working hours" most teachers tend to include the time it takes them to travel to work - something that the rest of us are not allowed to count.

JustMary wrote: »

My last job, for a multi-national, involved spending a LOT of time organising running audio-conferences for people working on the same project from sites around the world. My job before that, for a public-sector organisation, included being on a working party to implement video-conferenceing throughout the department (nationwide), and then many other project that I was on used vid-cons instead of travelling. A lot earlier in my career, I did a lot of business travel for things that I'm certain would not be done face to face any more. So I think I know what I'm talking about.




I normally don't stoop to responding to this sort of comment, but am making an exception just for you! Suggest you take a trip to Specsavers before reviewing these from the last few days:

Recommending a lunch place:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59714869&postcount=16

Denouncing racism, and recommending a local business that I think is particularly good:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59724124&postcount=13

Giving transport information, and making the OP'er aware of a safety "challenge" they could face:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59682256&postcount=5

Suggesting evening activities that don't involve drinking:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59632345&postcount=5

So you worked for ONE multinational, and ONE public agency, that had video conferencing, and that justifies your opinion that "Pretty much any company where they would previously sent the staff to face-to-face meetings" is using video conferencing? Thats fine for very large organisations like the TWO you mentioned. Like I said, I think you're making it up as you go along.

As for work travel being a perk, maybe it was for you, maybe you made the most of it. I don't call driving to Dublin at 6am and driving back at 9pm a perk, nor do I call waiting around in airports for hours on end a perk. I do some overseas travel, and it involves working weekends away, and you're expected back in work as soon as the earliest flight can get you home.

And you obviously haven't a clue how stressful a job teaching is. Your condescending attitude to teachers just highlights your ignorance of their job.

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

... like the TWO you mentioned. Like I said, I think you're making it up as you go along.

It may surprise you, but I have both friends and professional contacts who work in other organisations. Funnily enough, we compare notes about what our respective organisations are doing.