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Left / Right Socialism/Fascism

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    #62
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    You willingness and speed to answer why the original question was not answered really speaks volumes. Strange, you previously claimed the question was answered by Soldie many times before this.

    I do accept your interpretation of Smith's dictum, however. But I will ask, what of the protection of the poor against the rich? What of those with no profitable talent, skills or whatever that would make them compete effectively in a liberal society? How does the liberalist within capitalist society deal with such people?


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    #63
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #64
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    silverharp wrote: »
    Property starts your freedom as a person, each person is unique no? Having assets or not doesnt change the rights to keep your income, you'll have to talk to the socialist side of the fence as to why income is taxed. Otherwise , given that a market economy provides the best opportunity to provide freedom and economic opportunities what more can anyone expect?

    Thanks for your sensible reply SH.

    Good points above, but do you really believe that a market economy can provide all those freedoms and opportunities you speak of? Freedom in a market economy is measured in how much you can afford. Those on low incomes do not have the same freedoms of choice or opportunity as those who are on high incomes. The liberalist endorses these inequalities of freedoms and see them as being fair. Taxation is one way of distributing excess wealth to those who most need it.


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    #65
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,423 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Deep Easterly wrote: »
    Good points above, but do you really believe that a market economy can provide all those freedoms and opportunities you speak of? Freedom in a market economy is measured in how much you can afford. Those on low incomes do not have the same freedoms of choice or opportunity as those who are on high incomes. The liberalist endorses these inequalities of freedoms and see them as being fair. Taxation is one way of distributing excess wealth to those who most need it.


    If you imagine a small micro economy with farmers , fisherman and blacksmiths etc. , the important issue is that they organise themselves in the most efficient manner given the natural uncertainties of life. Inequalities are natural in the sense that the innovative producers will end up with the bigger surpluses. However introduce a large gov. that takes 40% of the produce in return for supplying shoddy services and the promise of social welfare. What really has been achieved. Now there is a whole class of people that either dont produce anything at all (civil servants) or provide monopoly services. The producers are deprived of a portion of their surpluses which has to affect the productive capital stock in a negetive way.
    On taxation going to people who need it, I remember for a previous discussion DF made the point that poor and lower paid people pay alot of tax as well. The shop assistant in Ireland who owns a car and a TV for instance will be scratching their head wondering where their money goes?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #66
    Joycey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Joycey


    Soldie wrote: »
    How can you possibly suggest that Capitalism destroys the collective?

    Because it fosters the notion that the individual body houses a self contained identity (as opposed to any more nuanced view) due to this being the most effective way of harnessing the capacity for labour (and to increase the level of consumption/demand for the goods produced under capitalism) also resident in that body in order that the system may be further propagated.

    Have a read of this: http://www.jeffvail.net/atheoryofpower.pdf


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    #67
    Soldie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    Joycey wrote: »
    Because it fosters the notion that the individual body houses a self contained identity (as opposed to any more nuanced view) due to this being the most effective way of harnessing the capacity for labour (and to increase the level of consumption/demand for the goods produced under capitalism) also resident in that body in order that the system may be further propagated.

    What? Why are you typing like that?


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