Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix - 3/4/5 April 2009 (Practice/Quals/Race Discussion)

Guy:Incognito

Whats the dealio here? Only switched on.

Did something happen or was the race stopped cos it was raining?

My interest in F1 wained over the last few years , is this what happens now when it rains?

redout

Stekelly wrote: »

Whats the dealio here? Only switched on.

Did something happen or was the race stopped cos it was raining?

My interest in F1 wained over the last few years , is this what happens now when it rains?

Torrential downpour and race was red flagged. From that point they had 2hrs to restart it and finish which has now passed. Final positions under red flag remain and only half points awarded as less than 75% of the grand prix was completed.

Irishshin

Gone back to lap 31

1. Button
2. Heidfeld
3. Glock

redout

Heidfeld promoted to 2nd and Glock relegated to 3rd.

Something about times reset to end of lap 31.

mad m

Was it good up until they stopped it? Will this be replayed anywhere tonight?

Ghost Train

According to Gary Anderson reading of the rule book if they had restarted within the two hours they could have added on the stoppage time to the race length.

Would say it was more the fading light that stopped them restarting, pity not to get a full race

vectra

LOL
I had to laugh at Kimi going round the Garage in shorts and T-Shirt eating a Chockice and drinking a Can of Coke and smiling away.

Irishshin

Two weeks to China, will be interesting. Will there be diffusers there or not and will something else happen to McClaren in the meantime!

amacachi

Good race, FIA should've called it earlier though

vectra

Irishshin wrote: »

Two weeks to China, will be interesting. Will there be diffusers there or not and will something else happen to McClaren in the meantime!

Toyota are pushing their luck..Triple diffusers on the cars today

Irishshin

vectra wrote: »

Toyota are pushing their luck..Triple diffusers on the cars today

Oh yeah so they were. Wonder will the stewards look in to them....

cherryghost

i reckon that final order is gonna be reshuffled again, i rewinded sky+ to see mark webber in 4th place at the end of lap 31, not jarno trulli

amacachi

cherryghost wrote: »

i reckon that final order is gonna be reshuffled again, i rewinded sky+ to see mark webber in 4th place at the end of lap 31, not jarno trulli

Aye, the whole top 8 could well move, depends who was in the pits at the time too.

rua1972

As Glock said in the press conference, he hopes to keep in third place for a while

vectra

Irishshin wrote: »

His car is in the garage
Cars aren't allowed in the pit lane under a red flag

If they put him out again he will get a penalty I guess.

No
He could have started again from the pit lane.

EvilMonkey

I reckon more people would have got up at 6 to watch the race than turned it off after the red flag(who did i tell yesterday it would be red flagged if it rains ).
They better move it back to the old time, i hate the way they make these kind of changes without thinking them through.

What the **** were Ferrari at putting kimi on the wet tyre so early, desperate stuff, especially when the Ferrari has run so well in the inters in the past. Allot of dodgy decisions from Ferrari recently. :mad:

BoardsRanger

EvilMonkey wrote: »

What the **** were Ferrari at putting kimi on the wet tyre so early, desperate stuff, especially when the Ferrari has run so well in the inters in the past. Allot of dodgy decisions from Ferrari recently. :mad:

Yeah, and then when it did start tipping it down, they put him on inters only for him to come in a lap later and get full wets.
Some terrible decisions happening at ferrari lately. They certainly dont deserve to win if they continue like this.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I reckon more people would have got up at 6 to watch the race than turned it off after the red flag(who did i tell yesterday it would be red flagged if it rains ).
They better move it back to the old time, i hate the way they make these kind of changes without thinking them through.

What the **** were Ferrari at putting kimi on the wet tyre so early, desperate stuff, especially when the Ferrari has run so well in the inters in the past. Allot of dodgy decisions from Ferrari recently. :mad:

He had to pit anyway, and he was nowhere, so I can see why they took the risk. Just didn't pay off.

amacachi

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Yeah, and then when it did start tipping it down, they put him on inters only for him to come in a lap later and get full wets.
Some terrible decisions happening at ferrari lately. They certainly dont deserve to win if they continue like this.

They had him on the striped tyre straightaway did they not?

BoardsRanger

amacachi wrote: »

They had him on the striped tyre straightaway did they not?

Nearly sure he pitted twice in a row and the first time they put inters on. Could be wrong though

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

He had to pit anyway, and he was nowhere, so I can see why they took the risk. Just didn't pay off.

But surly they knew that the wet tyre would be destroyed before it even started raining. Kimi was in before the rain wasn't he? It was a gamble but not the kind of gamble Ferrari should be making.

amacachi

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Nearly sure he pitted twice in a row and the first time they put inters on. Could be wrong though

Not according to the live timing. He was 30 or so seconds off the pace with them, which may be why you thought he pitted :P

EvilMonkey wrote: »

But surly they knew that the wet tyre would be destroyed before it even started raining. Kimi was in before the rain wasn't he? It was a gamble but not the kind of gamble Ferrari should be making.

So they should've just settled for no points rather than take a risk and mix it up a bit?

BoardsRanger

amacachi wrote: »

Not according to the live timing. He was 30 or so seconds off the pace with them, which may be why you thought he pitted :P

Wish i recorded it now! Still sure they gave him inters first, he did a lap or 2 and then came in for full wets.

Edit: i see the live timing have him down for 3 pit stops. 1st when they put him on full wets, then later on he tried inters and then went to wets. i know he ended up in the pits at the end of the race but im not sure if that was counted?

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

So they should've just settled for no points rather than take a risk and mix it up a bit?

Full wet in the dry is not a risk its just stupid, inter i could understand but the full wet cant cope in the dry, how many times in wet races do we see drivers move off the dry line into the wet to cool the tyres.

amacachi

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Wish i recorded it now! Still sure they gave him inters first, he did a lap or 2 and then came in for full wets.

Edit: i see the live timing have him down for 3 pit stops. 1st when they put him on full wets, then later on he tried inters and then went to wets. i know he ended up in the pits at the end of the race but im not sure if that was counted?

Think it was full wets then more full wets/intermediates for his second stop (when he was low on fuel, about 10 laps after the first) then the third when he drove into the pits at the end. Everytime a driver goes into into the pits it shows up as a stop.
I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure he did 10 or so laps on the full wets before changing.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Full wet in the dry is not a risk its just stupid, inter i could understand but the full wet cant cope in the dry, how many times in wet races do we see drivers move off the dry line into the wet to cool the tyres.

It turned out to be stupid, had the rain come 4/5 minutes earlier and been as heavy as expected it would've been a good decision. I thought it was a poor decision since it was only trying to save the time of a pit-stop, but I can see why they took the risk.

Slutmonkey57b

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Yeah, and then when it did start tipping it down, they put him on inters only for him to come in a lap later and get full wets.
Some terrible decisions happening at ferrari lately. They certainly dont deserve to win if they continue like this.

Proves my assertion in the Button thread that the #1 factor in a winning driver is the Team Boss. Kimi can be as mercurial as he likes, if his boss is a muppet, and his cheif designer gets it wrong, he's coming in nowhere. Ferrari were a team in the wilderness for years before Ross arrived, then survived (just about) when he left. Where are they now? Back in the wilderness. People who follow teams or drivers are going to have to start accepting that it's the man behind the CAD, the man running the supercomputer, and the decision maker on the pit wall that make winners.

F1.com should start making profiles of the real stars of the races: the engineers.

On the race result, I see the Race Director still can't do something as basic as provide clear information as to who's in what position. Left everyone in the dark for almost an hour sitting on the grid while he sorted out whether he was going to declare the result as lap 31 or 33. Merely indicating to the media and the teams what was going on might have been an idea.

Nooooo, run up to the three podium finishers as they're about to walk out and tell them you've just reshuffled the whole race.

Incompetence, indecision, and confusion. Another win for Charlie Whiting.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Full wet in the dry is not a risk its just stupid, inter i could understand but the full wet cant cope in the dry, how many times in wet races do we see drivers move off the dry line into the wet to cool the tyres.

Is everybody forgetting that we lve in Ireland?
where the sun shines ( rarely ) then goes dull.. then maybe a sprinkle of rain... then nothing again

In Malaysia it is sunshine then Torrential rain.. escpecially at that time of day.. This is waht Ferrari was taking a gamble on.
Turn the situation around and had it worked to perfection for Kimi and he won the race.. would you be calling it "Plain Genious thinking" or still say Palin stupid ?? :rolleyes:

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

It turned out to be stupid, had the rain come 4/5 minutes earlier and been as heavy as expected it would've been a good decision. I thought it was a poor decision since it was only trying to save the time of a pit-stop, but I can see why they took the risk.

I know why they did it i just think even if the rain came earlier and bucketed down like everyone expected, Kimis wets would still be destroyed from the laps in the dry.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Proves my assertion in the Button thread that the #1 factor in a winning driver is the Team Boss. Kimi can be as mercurial as he likes, if his boss is a muppet, and his cheif designer gets it wrong, he's coming in nowhere. Ferrari were a team in the wilderness for years before Ross arrived, then survived (just about) when he left. Where are they now? Back in the wilderness. People who follow teams or drivers are going to have to start accepting that it's the man behind the CAD, the man running the supercomputer, and the decision maker on the pit wall that make winners.

F1.com should start making profiles of the real stars of the races: the engineers.

I agree Ferrari have been weaker since they lost some key members a few years ago. But it was Button that put the laps in during the pitstop window and Button who was quickest on the wet tyre and Button who caught glock once he got on the inters. Yes he needs a car that works well and someone to give him the advice and i think the driver has a say in the strategy they take.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

On the race result, I see the Race Director still can't do something as basic as provide clear information as to who's in what position. Left everyone in the dark for almost an hour sitting on the grid while he sorted out whether he was going to declare the result as lap 31 or 33. Merely indicating to the media and the teams what was going on might have been an idea.

Nooooo, run up to the three podium finishers as they're about to walk out and tell them you've just reshuffled the whole race.

Incompetence, indecision, and confusion. Another win for Charlie Whiting.

It could have been handled better but its not up to the race director to explain the rules to the teams or TV, they should know it finishes 1 lap back from when the race is red flagged and not what lap it says on the timing.

vectra wrote: »

Is everybody forgetting that we lve in Ireland?
where the sun shines ( rarely ) then goes dull.. then maybe a sprinkle of rain... then nothing again

In Malaysia it is sunshine then Torrential rain.. escpecially at that time of day.. This is waht Ferrari was taking a gamble on.
Turn the situation around and had it worked to perfection for Kimi and he won the race.. would you be calling it "Plain Genious thinking" or still say Palin stupid ?? :rolleyes:

That was never going to happen, as soon as i saw them putting on the wet tyres in the dry i knew kimi would finish nowhere.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I know why they did it i just think even if the rain came earlier and bucketed down like everyone expected, Kimis wets would still be destroyed from the laps in the dry.

Yup it was the wrong decision, I didn't argue against that. And if the rain took a couple of minutes to come down he'd have gotten very little advantage, but they had to roll the dice, they weren't in with a chance of points anyway.

Chong

I would just like to say , I am delighted for Brawn GP and more so Jenson.

The lad is a quality driver, and deserves this chance to shine after such a horrible winter.

Seems like a good bloke anytime I have seen him interviewed and was a good sport on Top Gear.

Well Done Jenson.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

Yup it was the wrong decision, I didn't argue against that. And if the rain took a couple of minutes to come down he'd have gotten very little advantage, but they had to roll the dice, they weren't in with a chance of points anyway.

I think he might of got a few points if he wasn't loosing a so much time every lap, especially when their is a chance that some cars will go off in the wet.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I think he might of got a few points if he wasn't loosing a so much time every lap, especially when their is a chance that some cars will go off in the wet.

Making the pitstop put him down to 11th or 12th, had he put on on dry tyres he and everyone else would have still had to come in to change so he wouldn't have gained there. As it turned out he was pretty slow even on fresh wet/inter tyres so he wasn't going to gain much time during the rain. So they decided to roll the dice in the hope of gaining 15 seconds or so.
I would guess that Ferrari knew they weren't going to be great in the wet and needed to roll the dice.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

Making the pitstop put him down to 11th or 12th, had he put on on dry tyres he and everyone else would have still had to come in to change so he wouldn't have gained there. As it turned out he was pretty slow even on fresh wet/inter tyres so he wasn't going to gain much time during the rain. So they decided to roll the dice in the hope of gaining 15 seconds or so.
I would guess that Ferrari knew they weren't going to be great in the wet and needed to roll the dice.

I think they were taking a huge gamble to win the race when they should have been aiming for a few points.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I think they were taking a huge gamble to win the race when they should have been aiming for a few points.

I think they were gambling to get a few points rather than finish outside the top 10.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

I think they were gambling to get a few points rather than finish outside the top 10.

Maybe, but assuming they thought the race would go full distance then i would have thought kimi could get back into the points especially if a safety care came out and closed everyone up.

mad m

For anyone who missed it like myself, there will be highlights on BBC3 tonight from 7pm...

Slutmonkey57b

EvilMonkey wrote: »

It could have been handled better but its not up to the race director to explain the rules to the teams or TV, they should know it finishes 1 lap back from when the race is red flagged and not what lap it says on the timing.

The live timing boards are what the teams have to go on. The rules are the rules, but the drivers and teams sat on the grid for almost an hour. During that hour, at some point, Whiting could have communicated that:
These are your positions IF we restart the race. If the race is abandoned, we are going back to the last completed lap.

Watching the race director run flapping up to the drivers as they're about to walk onto the podium, to change the results, is an example of mind boggling incompetence. It would be acceptable at a junior cart race. This is F1. What is this man up to?

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The live timing boards are what the teams have to go on. The rules are the rules, but the drivers and teams sat on the grid for almost an hour. During that hour, at some point, Whiting could have communicated that:
These are your positions IF we restart the race. If the race is abandoned, we are going back to the last completed lap.

Watching the race director run flapping up to the drivers as they're about to walk onto the podium, to change the results, is an example of mind boggling incompetence. It would be acceptable at a junior cart race. This is F1. What is this man up to?

Exactly. It was obvious to pretty much everyone that the race wasn't going to restart, surely the positions could've been worked out earlier. I know there's protocol and he has to give it "every chance" to get going again, but a bit of realism and common sense wouldn't go amiss.

EvilMonkey

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The live timing boards are what the teams have to go on. The rules are the rules, but the drivers and teams sat on the grid for almost an hour. During that hour, at some point, Whiting could have communicated that:
These are your positions IF we restart the race. If the race is abandoned, we are going back to the last completed lap.

Watching the race director run flapping up to the drivers as they're about to walk onto the podium, to change the results, is an example of mind boggling incompetence. It would be acceptable at a junior cart race. This is F1. What is this man up to?

At least they were told before the podium unlike in Brazil when Fisichella needed an FIA investigation to get his win, although their could be an investigation into this after everyone complain's about being moved back!

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

At least they were told before the podium unlike in Brazil when Fisichella needed an FIA investigation to get his win, although their could be an investigation into this after everyone complain's about being moved back!

In fairness that was all done in a rush and there was general mayhem on the track at the time :P

FrostyJack

Making the pitstop put him down to 11th or 12th, had he put on on dry tyres he and everyone else would have still had to come in to change so he wouldn't have gained there. As it turned out he was pretty slow even on fresh wet/inter tyres so he wasn't going to gain much time during the rain. So they decided to roll the dice in the hope of gaining 15 seconds or so.
I would guess that Ferrari knew they weren't going to be great in the wet and needed to roll the dice

There was no good reason to pit for wets at that time, it was never going to work, best case senerio it bucket down and he would be a full lap on wets ahead of everyone else and gain possibly 30 seconds on everyone else. Worst case he would lose 20 seconds a lap and destroy his tires in 2 laps, it was a no brainer. With the strong possability of red flag and/or SC it made even less sense of taking such a gamble. I'm a strong believer of being on the right tyre at the right time (don't want to paraphrase Brundle who said it a million times), I can't rememeber anytime where it has paid off ever.

Good race pity it wasn't restarted (if conditions were more favourable) Button was amazing today, bar the start (could have been car problem) and I much prefere his fathers interviews to Hamilton's robot father. Lewis did well today all things considered but would have like to see if Massa could have done him before the end. I thing that KERS system makes no sense with the weight penalty it gives, it only makes sense if everyone has it, I'd say the non-KERS drivers must be sick when they get repassed because of it.

EvilMonkey

FrostyJack wrote: »

I thing that KERS system makes no sense with the weight penalty it gives, it only makes sense if everyone has it, I'd say the non-KERS drivers must be sick when they get repassed because of it.

Did you see that battle between Webber and Alonso, I'm sure Webber was fuming that Alonso kept getting back in front driving out of the corners.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Did you see that battle between Webber and Alonso, I'm sure Webber was fuming that Alonso kept getting back in front driving out of the corners.

That was good to watch as was the Battle between Hamilton and Glock ?