Illegal KERS allegation to overshadow Malaysian Grand Prix?

vectra

Hmm
How many Point scoring teams ran Kers in Melbourne?
Looks as thought there could be another shakeup.
I wonder is Hamster the culprit

After what can almost certainly be described as a refreshing opening to the 2009
season, seeing newcomers Brawn GP claim an emotional 1-2 at Albert Park, the
last thing the sport needs right now is yet another scandal.
Already overshadowing the Melbourne weekend was the allegation that several
teams were running suspect diffusers on their cars. Now, however, new
allegations of cheating, almost on the eve of the Malaysian Grand Prix, threaten to
put another nail in the coffin that is Formula One.
Sources close to the FIA have confirmed that three teams, whose identities
currently remain undisclosed, have formally complained against no fewer than two
teams for using "questionable" KERS systems during the season opener.
The allegations centre upon the amount of horsepower available to the drivers,
with claims that several teams breached the 80 horsepower limit.

The duration of KERS used per lap is governed by the sport's new Electronic
Control Unit (ECU), but it is alleged that certain teams have developed a
workaround to allow the additional 80bhp output by the systems to generate
additional power (up to 96bhp) while keeping the usable boost-time per lap within
the allowable limit. Evidence presented against teams running the alleged illegal
system stems from sophisticated sound recordings of their engines during the race.
The potential effect on the championship standings could cause a lot of confusion,
especially if a ruling is not reached in time for this weekend's Grand Prix. If teams
and drivers are docked points or given penalties for the first two races of the
season after this weekend, it would surely seriously undermine what credibility F1
has left.
A statement is expected from the FIA prior to the first free practice session in
Sepang.
This latest example of F1 becoming a battle on paper and in the Appeal Court
rather than on the track is a situation that few of us really wanted to
contemplate... yet, knowing the sport as we do, it does not come as a surprise.

smooch71

I wonder,

He did seem to be able to breeze past a lot of cars during the race considering he was one of the slowest in all practice sessions and possibly qualifying.

This is the mid nineties traction control drama all over again.

As far as I know, the cars that ran Kers were:

Raikkonen
Massa
Hamilton
Kovalainen (Didn't get to use it much, might have been interesting though)
Heidfeld
Alonso
Piquet

amacachi

Obviously I'm going to sound bitter, and like a broken record, but I did think it odd how much benefit Hamilton seemed to get from his KERS compared to the other drivers. I could very well be wrong

amacachi

Also, did anyone else notice on the onboard shots of almost all the cars, KERS and non-KERS, that there seemed to be a strange noise from the engines as revs increased, like the engine was cutting out? It was usually just after a gear change.

smooch71

amacachi wrote: »

Also, did anyone else notice on the onboard shots of almost all the cars, KERS and non-KERS, that there seemed to be a strange noise from the engines as revs increased, like the engine was cutting out? It was usually just after a gear change.

I noticed that too but thought they might have been hitting the rev limiter.

Now that you say it, it didn't happen where you would normally expect the limiter to kick in, like at the end of a straight say.

smooch71

amacachi wrote: »

Obviously I'm going to sound bitter, and like a broken record, but I did think it odd how much benefit Hamilton seemed to get from his KERS compared to the other drivers. I could very well be wrong

Don't worry about sounding bitter. I can't stand the guy

amacachi

smooch71 wrote: »

I noticed that too but thought they might have been hitting the rev limiter.

Now that you say it, it didn't happen where you would normally expect the limiter to kick in, like at the end of a straight say.

Yeah but it was usually just after a gear change, about a third of the way from the gear change to the next one at the limiter. Must try and find some footage.

amacachi

Decided not to go offtopic in the XBox forum :P Could only find a couple of videos from the Aussie GP, all with yappy commentary over them and no noticable instances of what I was talkin about. Goddamn it.

Firewalkwithme

It's just another attempt at an April Fool - see below:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37402

By the by Vectra - can you ever post a message without taking a dig at Hamilton? We have had enough threads here derailed by the endless Hamilton bashing and it just makes those involved look bitter and jealous of his success.

amacachi

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

It's just another attempt at an April Fool - see below:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37402

By the by Vectra - can you ever post a message without taking a dig at Hamilton? We have had enough threads here derailed by the endless Hamilton bashing and it just makes those involved look bitter and jealous of his success.

Damn :P I still do think Hamilton seemed to get more benefit from the KERS than the other drivers using it.
Wish I could work out what that noise on the engines was, I'll be lookin out for it this weekend!

EvilMonkey

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

It's just another attempt at an April Fool - see below:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37402

By the by Vectra - can you ever post a message without taking a dig at Hamilton? We have had enough threads here derailed by the endless Hamilton bashing and it just makes those involved look bitter and jealous of his success.

I was just about to say be careful it could be Ferrari. And would the FIA not have the telemetry data how could they not spot it.
I hate April 1st on the internet you cant trust anything you read.

vectra

It was not posted as a joke earlier.
Who am I to say it was nopt true?
Had you not read about it being an aprils fool joke then would you come back and make the same stab at me?
I cant help it if i cannot stand the Twat.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I was just about to say be careful it could be Ferrari. And would the FIA not have the telemetry data how could they not spot it.
I hate April 1st on the internet you cant trust anything you read.

Well
Look at it this way

Here is a list of Kers runners and their finishing ( and non finishing ) order

Raikkonen>>>> DNF
Massa>>>>>>>>>>>>DNF
Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>> 18th to 3rd :rolleyes:
Kovalainen >>>>DNF
Heidfeld>>>>>>>>>> 10th
Alonso>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5th
Piquet >>>> DNF


Which ones would you pick out of those to be the most relevent in upsetting the final scorings if it were found to be true ?

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

Well
Look at it this way

Here is a list of Kers runners and their finishing ( and non finishing ) order

Raikkonen>>>> DNF
Massa>>>>>>>>>>>>DNF
Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>> 18th to 3rd :rolleyes:
Kovalainen >>>>DNF
Heidfeld>>>>>>>>>> 10th
Alonso>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5th
Piquet >>>> DNF


Which ones would you pick out of those to be the most relevent in upsetting the final scorings if it were found to be true ?

You're neglecting the fact that both Ferraris would more than likely have been ahead of Hamilton, and that Hamilton got lucky with the timing of the safety cars and others dropping out.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

You're neglecting the fact that both Ferraris would more than likely have been ahead of Hamilton, and that Hamilton got lucky with the timing of the safety cars and others dropping out.

But I am not neglecting the fact that what you are saying would be "Theoretical"

It is quite possible they would not have finished in the points as they were going backwards from the off whereas Hamster was shooting forwards

amacachi

They weren't going backwards, they were taking a while to pass traffic. Hamilton was 20 seconds behind and lapping a couple of tenths a lap faster on average. When they retired I can't remember which was which, but one of them was up near Trulli.

Do you admit that he got lucky with the safety cars? For God's sake I dislike Hamilton a lot but are you completely blinkered to good driving just because it's him? I said on Sunday morning to my dad that he was driving brilliantly and even with the luck he got he thoroughly deserved what he got from the race. First time in a long time I've said something like that about Hamilton.

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

It was not posted as a joke earlier.
Who am I to say it was nopt true?

The story came from one source and had nothing to back it up. Considering the day that was in it, putting 2+2 together was an easy task.

vectra wrote: »

Had you not read about it being an aprils fool joke then would you come back and make the same stab at me?
I cant help it if i cannot stand the Twat.

Yes I think I would have - if not now then in some future thread because all you seem to do is bitch and moan about Lewis Hamilton to the point where it seems that you are seriously obsessed with the guy. In this case today you were clearly excited at the prospect that Hamilton would suffer some misfortune. Frankly I think that is quite sad on your part. Is it so hard for you to accept that he just drove a good race? You are entitled to think what you like about him and god knows that we all know what you think about him but do you really need to constantly snipe at him at every available oppertunity?

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

The story came from one source and had nothing to back it up. Considering the day that was in it, putting 2+2 together was an easy task.

Easy for you to say now.

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Yes I think I would have - if not now then in some future thread because all you seem to do is bitch and moan about Lewis Hamilton to the point where it seems that you are seriously obsessed with the guy. In this case today you were clearly excited at the prospect that Hamilton would suffer some misfortune. Frankly I think that is quite sad on your part. Is it so hard for you to accept that he just drove a good race? You are entitled to think what you like about him and god knows that we all know what you think about him but do you really need to constantly snipe at him at every available oppertunity?

Like I said before
I cannot stand the maggot

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

So what if he doesnt like Hamiliton, its not against the law to dislike a driver.All the negative posts regarding Lewis are not without backing time and time again Lewis has said things that have annoyed alot of people. If you like him then fair enough alot of people dont too.

I don't like Hamilton, doesn't mean I can't spot good driving when I see it.

Firewalkwithme

LIGHTNING wrote: »

So what if he doesnt like Hamiliton, its not against the law to dislike a driver.All the negative posts regarding Lewis are not without backing time and time again Lewis has said things that have annoyed alot of people. If you like him then fair enough alot of people dont too.

There is a big difference between not liking someone but being able to respect and admire their ability as opposed to the kind of spiteful vitriol that gets hurled at Hamilton on this forum all the time. Jenson Button has already started receiving the same treatment here too (not from everyone) so it makes me wonder if some of the people who do the slagging are real motorsport fans at all or whether they are only interested in what they perceive a particular drivers personality to be.

Jor

Tell me this isn't going to start again!!!!!!!!!

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

So what if he doesnt like Hamiliton, its not against the law to dislike a driver.All the negative posts regarding Lewis are not without backing time and time again Lewis has said things that have annoyed alot of people. If you like him then fair enough alot of people dont too.

Thank you for the vote of confidence

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

There is a big difference between not liking someone but being able to respect and admire their ability as opposed to the kind of spiteful vitriol that gets hurled at Hamilton on this forum all the time. Jenson Button has already started receiving the same treatment here too (not from everyone) so it makes me wonder if some of the people who do the slagging are real motorsport fans at all or whether they are only interested in what they perceive a particular drivers personality to be.

I admire Jenson
I admire almost every other driver on the grid except for Hamster.
He is a big headed ignoramus that does not deserve to have gotton to the top as easily as he did.

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

I admire Jenson

I never suggested that you didn't.

vectra wrote: »

I admire almost every other driver on the grid except for Hamster.
He is a big headed ignoramus that does not deserve to have gotton to the top as easily as he did.

So, because you feel he hasn't 'paid his dues' and because of a perception you have built up about his personality (despite not ever having met him) you will simply refuse to acknowledge his obvious talent and instead you simply hope and pray for him to suffer from some misfortune or another. Yeah that makes a lot of sense :rolleyes:

If he didn't deserve to be where he is, he simply would not be there.

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

So, because you feel he hasn't 'paid his dues' and because of a perception you have built up about his personality (despite not ever having met him) you will simply refuse to acknowledge his obvious talent and instead you simply hope and pray for him to suffer from some misfortune or another. Yeah that makes a lot of sense :rolleyes:

If he didn't deserve to be where he is, he simply would not be there.

I never did meet him and I never wish to meet him, I would not even stand near him for that matter.

As for me having a perseption about his personality.. "What personality are you talking about" ?? He simply does not have one.

I never said he was not talented.
I merely said that he sgould have proven his talent before being handed a car that a chicken could have won races in.

Finally,
Am I obliged to say nice things about someone I cannot stand just to please you?? :rolleyes:

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

I never did meet him and I never wish to meet him, I would not even stand near him for that matter.

As for me having a perseption about his personality.. "What personality are you talking about" ?? He simply does not have one.

See above for your perception of his personality.

vectra wrote: »

I never said he was not talented.
I merely said that he sgould have proven his talent before being handed a car that a chicken could have won races in.

He proved his talent in lower formulae and has proven it again in F1. What should he have done in your opinion that would have proven his talent if not that? Perhaps toddle around in the midfield before eventually getting 'promoted' to a top team before he won a race / championship like hmm... Kimi Raikonen maybe? And just don't even try the 'it was the car wot done it' arguement - if that were true we would have seen a lot more from Kovi than we have - his performances arguably cost McLaren the contructors title last year.

vectra wrote: »

Finally,
Am I obliged to say nice things about someone I cannot stand just to please you?? :rolleyes:

No, I would just ask that you try not to be so blinkered in you opinions and have a more open mind but since I suspect that you either cannot or are refusing to because you are trolling then I don't expect anything to change.

riemann

smooch71 wrote: »

Don't worry about sounding bitter. I can't stand the guy

Amen to that.

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

It was not posted as a joke earlier.
Who am I to say it was nopt true?
Had you not read about it being an aprils fool joke then would you come back and make the same stab at me?
I cant help it if i cannot stand the Twat.

Well
Look at it this way

Here is a list of Kers runners and their finishing ( and non finishing ) order

Raikkonen>>>> DNF
Massa>>>>>>>>>>>>DNF
Hamilton>>>>>>>>>>> 18th to 3rd :rolleyes:
Kovalainen >>>>DNF
Heidfeld>>>>>>>>>> 10th
Alonso>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5th
Piquet >>>> DNF


Which ones would you pick out of those to be the most relevent in upsetting the final scorings if it were found to be true ?

I was just thinking the way Hamilton was getting slated and no proof of who was in trouble that it would be ironic if it was for example Kimi, and Williams did lodge a protest against the Ferrari then dropped it in aus so anything is possible. Anyway who cares its bull****

Actually anyone know what the problems were with the two Ferrari's in Australia?

riemann

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

See above for your perception of his personality.



He proved his talent in lower formulae and has proven it again in F1. What should he have done in your opinion that would have proven his talent if not that? Perhaps toddle around in the midfield before eventually getting 'promoted' to a top team before he won a race / championship like hmm... Kimi Raikonen maybe? And just don't even try the 'it was the car wot done it' arguement - if that were true we would have seen a lot more from Kovi than we have - his performances arguably cost McLaren the contructors title last year.



No, I would just ask that you try not to be so blinkered in you opinions and have a more open mind but since I suspect that you either cannot or are refusing to because you are trolling then I don't expect anything to change.

This post has more holes than the san marino defense.

Hamilton was better than Kovi because Kovi was brought in to make up the numbers. Id's say he got about as much attention from the engineers etc as the Guiness tap in coppers.

If i was taken in by a f1 team as early as he was as mclaren (13 i think) i'd have a shot at winning a f1 title.

I can only assume that you are a fan of his because he is current champ and i wonder if you will still be following him as closely during this season where he looks destened to be a midgrid driver.

Firewalkwithme

riemann wrote: »

Hamilton was better than Kovi because Kovi was brought in to make up the numbers. Id's say he got about as much attention from the engineers etc as the Guiness tap in coppers.

Kovi may have been making up the numbers but didn't he do that at Renault too with Alonso? He has been outperformed by Hamilton in the same fashion as Alonso did which is not surprising because we know exactly how closely matched they are from their time at McLaren. Besides - when Hamilton was signed to McLaren there was a huge question as to whether he would be able to even make himself look respectable compared to his double champion teammate. He was the one making up the numbers then but because he had the talent he was able to make more of the situation he found himself in than Kovi ever could or will.

riemann wrote: »

If i was taken in by a f1 team as early as he was as mclaren (13 i think) i'd have a shot at winning a f1 title.

Oh come on - you say that my post is full of holes and then post this? Was he driving F1 cars since he was 13? If he wasn't good enough he never would have gotten the F1 drive no matter how long McLaren had an interest in him.

riemann wrote: »

I can only assume that you are a fan of his because he is current champ and i wonder if you will still be following him as closely during this season where he looks destened to be a midgrid driver.

I am a fan of F1 before a fan of any driver / team so I am certainly not jumping on the bandwagon because he is champion. I follow the F1 grid from P1 to P20 and have done for about 17 years now so I know a good driver when I see one. Even if I dislike a driver for some reason I will always give him his dues if he shows that he deserves them and Hamilton certainly has done that.

vectra

riemann wrote: »

This post has more holes than the san marino defense.

Hamilton was better than Kovi because Kovi was brought in to make up the numbers. Id's say he got about as much attention from the engineers etc as the Guiness tap in coppers.

If i was taken in by a f1 team as early as he was as mclaren (13 i think) i'd have a shot at winning a f1 title.

I can only assume that you are a fan of his because he is current champ and i wonder if you will still be following him as closely during this season where he looks destened to be a midgrid driver.

Those answers are exactly as i would put it.
Also
I have ALWAYS been a fan of Kimi's through bad times and good.
I would not be a glory fan that changes with each champ

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

I would not be a glory fan that changes with each champ

I know what you are implying but you are wrong. It has actually been more common for me to be a fan of the title contender than the eventual champion during the time I have watched F1 for one reason or another. Last year was an exception but I would have been happy for Massa had he won too.

EvilMonkey

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Perhaps toddle around in the midfield before eventually getting 'promoted' to a top team before he won a race / championship like hmm... Kimi Raikonen maybe?

Yes, It was good enough for Schumacher. Vettel won in a Torro Rosso last year, Kimi came into F1 with around 20 formula Renault races I remember Bernie saying that the FIA should never have given him a super licence by mid season Ferrari and McLaren wanted to sign him, he eventually signed for McLaren before the end of the season.

And just don't even try the 'it was the car wot done it' arguement - if that were true we would have seen a lot more from Kovi than we have - his performances arguably cost McLaren the contructors title last year.

McLaren have favoured one driver over the other since Hakkinen.

Alonso did which is not surprising because we know exactly how closely matched they are from their time at McLaren

Ron wouldn't even speak to Alonso for over half the season, Alonso who brought the tech from Renault that gave them the edge that year. Alonso also took a few races to get to grips with the tyres. Hamilton spent the summer in the simulator and was up to speed with the tyres as he had no expirence of the Michelin's

riemann

vectra wrote: »

Those answers are exactly as i would put it.
Also
I have ALWAYS been a fan of Kimi's through bad times and good.
I would not be a glory fan that changes with each champ

Kimi all the way. I've been following him since his sauber days and he had only competed in 23 races prior to his signing.

That is the mark of a true racing driver.

Not some cotton wool wrapped corporate zombie with a popstar girlfriend with his daddy at each race minding him.

Also I like Kubica purely cos hes lanky like me

Firewalkwithme

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Yes, It was good enough for Schumacher. Vettel won in a Torro Rosso last year, Kimi came into F1 with around 20 formula Renault races I remember Bernie saying that the FIA should never have given him a super licence by mid season Ferrari and McLaren wanted to sign him, he eventually signed for McLaren before the end of the season.
McLaren have favoured one driver over the other since Hakkinen.

Schumacher had one aborted race for Jordan before being snapped up by Benneton. Vettels win was totally unexpected and very much against the norm - a fantastic victory. Just more proof that you don't need to serve an apprenticeship if you are good enough. Kimi had to wait quite a while because the McLaren move came at the wrong time but his talent got him into the right car in the end. All different routes.

McLaren didn't favour Hamilton over Alonso at the beginning of 2007 did they? Maybe later in the year but it's not proven and it's certainly nothing like the extent to Ferrari during the Schumacher era.

Firewalkwithme

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Ron wouldn't even speak to Alonso for over half the season, Alonso who brought the tech from Renault that gave them the edge that year. Alonso also took a few races to get to grips with the tyres. Hamilton spent the summer in the simulator and was up to speed with the tyres as he had no expirence of the Michelin's

Why would Ron not speak to Alonso - because he threatened to turn them in to the FIA perhaps? That is pure rubbish about Alonso bringing the tech from Renault - the car was designed before he joined and as we found out later the tech was STOLEN from Ferrari! To try to say that Hamilton got used to the tyre's from spending the summer in a simulator and that is why he outpaced a double world champion is laughable.

amacachi

Oh for God's sake. It's one thing disliking someone, to be blinkered to his skill level is just pure ignorance. I don't think it's fair that Hamilton got straight in to a championship-winning standard car, but he is still one of the fastest drivers out there.

EvilMonkey

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Schumacher had one aborted race for Jordan before being snapped up by Benneton. Vettels win was totally unexpected and very much against the norm - a fantastic victory. Just more proof that you don't need to serve an apprenticeship if you are good enough. Kimi had to wait quite a while because the McLaren move came at the wrong time but his talent got him into the right car in the end. All different routes.

McLaren didn't favour Hamilton over Alonso at the beginning of 2007 did they? Maybe later in the year but it's not proven and it's certainly nothing like the extent to Ferrari during the Schumacher era.

The Benetton was not a good car when Schumacher joined.
McLaren cost Kimi 2 maybe 3 world championships with their poor reliability and conservative nature.
Once Hamilton did so well in his first race he was top man. How much time did Alonso get in the simulator? Who gave Hamilton the advice on how to set up the car in the first couple of races? Once Alonso stopped helping Hamilton his performance dipped. Schumacher at Ferrari was a proven world champion he was favoured. Alonso was told he would be favoured by Ron before he signed he was not thats why he threatened to turn them in to the FIA.
Alonso was a major part in the development of that car how else did he know what was going on?

Firewalkwithme

EvilMonkey wrote: »

The Benetton was not a good car when Schumacher joined.
McLaren cost Kimi 2 maybe 3 world championships with their poor reliability and conservative nature.
Once Hamilton did so well in his first race he was top man. How much time did Alonso get in the simulator? Who gave Hamilton the advice on how to set up the car in the first couple of races? Once Alonso stopped helping Hamilton his performance dipped. Schumacher at Ferrari was a proven world champion he was favoured. Alonso was told he would be favoured by Ron before he signed he was not.

The Benetton got a lot better shortly after Schumi joined. He didn't have to wait long for his first win / title.
Ferrari cost McLaren's Kimi Raikonen 2 or 3 titles because of their superior reliability.
No way was Hamilton top man after one race - more rubbish. Drivers often say the simulators are worthless to them. You are now trying to say that Alonso told Hamilton how to set up a car he didn't have a feel for himself? Alonso didn't tell him how - he worked it out with his engineers! Yes Schumacher was favoured - that's how they won some titles they perhaps should not have - but personally I dislike seeing teams work that way. It's been good to see Ferrari let their drivers fight it out while McLaren are now the one adopting more of a one car approach - but it won them the title.

riemann

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

but it won them the title.

At what cost?

They spent millions last year to ensure they won it and all on developments that are obsolete this year?

I think we have seen the last of mclaren for this season at least.

Firewalkwithme

riemann wrote: »

At what cost?

They spent millions last year to ensure they won it and all on developments that are obsolete this year?

I think we have seen the last of mclaren for this season at least.

I agree - but perhaps it was worth it for them since they had waited so long for the title. Brawn/Honda took the opposite route and the benefits have been there for all to see so far but will they be able to challenge next year - perhaps not.

riemann

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

I agree - but perhaps it was worth it for them since they had waited so long for the title. Brawn/Honda took the opposite route and the benefits have been there for all to see so far but will they be able to challenge next year - perhaps not.

Yeah the won the title but after the spygate scandal?


(Sorry i hate adding the word "gate" but that was what it was called)

Firewalkwithme

riemann wrote: »

Yeah the won the title but after the spygate scandal?


(Sorry i hate adding the word "gate" but that was what it was called)

They were fined heavily ($100 million) and voluntarily suspended development on certain areas of the car to the satisfaction of even Ferrari so I would be more inclined to say they won the title in spite of 'spygate'.

EvilMonkey

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

The Benetton got a lot better shortly after Schumi joined. He didn't have to wait long for his first win / title.

Driver or car?

Ferrari cost McLaren's Kimi Raikonen 2 or 3 titles because of their superior reliability.

They won them!

No way was Hamilton top man after one race - more rubbish.

Ron saw the potential he had maybe the first 3 races.

Drivers often say the simulators are worthless to them. You are now trying to say that Alonso told Hamilton how to set up a car he didn't have a feel for himself? Alonso didn't tell him how - he worked it out with his engineers!

He knew the tracks fairly well though, no he didn't set the car up for Hamilton he and their engineers helped each other out Alonso thought he was helping a rookie and he was top man when he realised this was not true things changed.

Yes Schumacher was favoured - that's how they won some titles they perhaps should not have - but personally I dislike seeing teams work that way.

Its a team sport?

It's been good to see Ferrari let their drivers fight it out while McLaren are now the one adopting more of a one car approach - but it won them the title.

true

Firewalkwithme

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Driver or car?

Both but mainly car - you can't learn talent!

EvilMonkey wrote: »

They won them!

I know - I'm just suggesting to look at it from Ferrari's point of view. These things can be argued either way like Driver A was lucky to be champion because he beat Driver B by only a point.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Ron saw the potential he had maybe the first 3 races.

Everyone saw it but I don't believe he threw the team behind Hamilton. Alonso had his feathers ruffled by the rookie but he kept his head well enough to still be in contention at the end (but we know what happened!)

EvilMonkey wrote: »

He knew the tracks fairly well though, no he didn't set the car up for Hamilton he and their engineers helped each other out Alonso thought he was helping a rookie and he was top man when he realised this was not true things changed.

Hamilton knew a lot of the tracks from GP2. Alonso helped Hamilton until he realised he could be beaten by him and that helped breed the animosity. McLaren had a tough job that year - with the benefit of hindsight I wonder what they would do differently.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Its a team sport? true

Yes absolutely but there are two championships to be won. One for the team, the other for the driver. When racing in competitive between teams then having a clear No.1 driver isn't so much of an issue but if you have one team that is totally dominant then I hate to see team orders.

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

McLaren didn't favour Hamilton over Alonso at the beginning of 2007 did they? .

You have got to be joking..!
Hamilton was always gonna be Ron's Golden Boy

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

You have got to be joking..!
Hamilton was always gonna be Ron's Golden Boy

What's with all the winking? You remind me of Eric Idle - nudge nudge, wink wink. If you have a point to make - make it like others do. If you can't do that coherently then you appear to have no argument to make.

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

What's with all the winking? You remind me of Eric Idle - nudge nudge, wink wink. If you have a point to make - make it like others do. If you can't do that coherently then you appear to have no argument to make.

I dont have "an argument"
I have a point of view
My point of view has just been proven to be correct
He is a lying self centred Twat that will do anything to gain a few points.
Show me where Kimi or any other driver carries on like him.
I have no respect for him.. Never did and Never will have,
If you dont like what I say or if I upset you by putting your golden boy down then tough.
Get on with it or maybe go visit him and you can both spit your dummies out together.

smooch71

Hamilton has beed disqualified from Australian results

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74146

thebman

Its kind of silly to argue talent. They are both extremely talented. Barely a 1/10th separates different drivers on the grid at different times.

To say one is more talented than the other especially with title chasers is doing them a disservice IMO.

I think it inevitably comes down to personalitity at that level if your going to support someone or another factor but I don't think skill comes into, maybe driving style would be a better choice of words.

Personally I dislike Hamilton after ITV's biased over the top coverage. Can't stand the sight of him and don't want to hear about him. I like Kimi but dislike Ferrari and most of the manufacturer teams and prefer private teams because of the level of passion they usually have for the sport and because they have to work up from nothing I think it means more to them.

So I will be supporting Brawn F1 this year. I prefer Barichello over Jenson because I followed him when he was with Jordan and like the guys attitude. Button isn't a bad guy I guess but I don't know there is just something about him. It could just be ITV's biased coverage again.

Firewalkwithme

vectra wrote: »

I dont have "an argument"
I have a point of view
My point of view has just been proven to be correct
He is a lying self centred Twat that will do anything to gain a few points.
Show me where Kimi or any other driver carries on like him.
I have no respect for him.. Never did and Never will have,
If you dont like what I say or if I upset you by putting your golden boy down then tough.
Get on with it or maybe go visit him and you can both spit your dummies out together.

Vectra you are seemingly incapable of understanding the point that is being made here by myself and others so I won't be posting about it again after this. There is a saying that you should never try to argue with an idiot since they only bring you down to their level and I don't want to go there.

Hamilton and McLaren were wrong to do what they did in the stewards meeting in Aus. and were rightly punished for it. I have no problem with that other than to say that it should never have been allowed to happen because the teams and stewards should have known what to do on the track.

Hamilton is not my golden boy and you won't see any dummies being spit out here because I agree with the penalty.

The whole point of the majority of this thread has simply been to prove that you cannot even acknowledge Hamiltons ability because of your blind hatred of him which is pretty immature. You have proven that that you are incapable of that simple thing many times now so there is no point dragging this on any further. Myself and others here have all said we may not like certain drivers but we do have to ability within us to recognize their talent - that seems to be an ability you either lack completely or are refusing to admit to - either way it's idiotic.

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Vectra you are seemingly incapable of understanding the point that is being made here by myself and others so I won't be posting about it again after this. There is a saying that you should never try to argue with an idiot since they only bring you down to their level and I don't want to go there.

Hamilton and McLaren were wrong to do what they did in the stewards meeting in Aus. and were rightly punished for it. I have no problem with that other than to say that it should never have been allowed to happen because the teams and stewards should have known what to do on the track.

Hamilton is not my golden boy and you won't see any dummies being spit out here because I agree with the penalty.

The whole point of the majority of this thread has simply been to prove that you cannot even acknowledge Hamiltons ability because of your blind hatred of him which is pretty immature. You have proven that that you are incapable of that simple thing many times now so there is no point dragging this on any further. Myself and others here have all said we may not like certain drivers but we do have to ability within us to recognize their talent - that seems to be an ability you either lack completely or are refusing to admit to - either way it's idiotic.

Dude,
I wouldnt be bothered wasting my time to associate with a Supporter of a Liar and Cheater.
if thats who you support and try to elevate as true sportsmen then go ahead.
But if I was like you then I would be burying my head in shame right now.

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Vectra has repeatedly stated he doesnt like the chap due to his attitude and behaviour. He has never said he is a crap driver or anything like that. I dont like the chap either but I know he is a quality driver. And Mclaren defo favoured Lewis in the 2007/2008 season anybody who thinks otherwise has their head in the clouds.

In a nutshell.

On another note
Did anyone read anything about Ferrari are considering NOT running Kers this weekend??