N4/N5: How should they be developed?

Sponge Bob

Ren2k7 wrote: »

I remember hearing a while back about a possible cross country route from sligo via cavan to dundalk. As someone who used the cavan to dundalk stretch a lot I can tell you it's badly needed.

You did indeed, it is mentioned in other threads.It was a proposed Sligo-Dundalk road 'via' Cavan. Pete Cavan then excises that border hopping road and also the N4 from Mullingar to Carrick on Shannon and proposes to extend the M3 in between them instead. These traffic stats are related to that border road proposal I think.

However we have done the N5 quite extensively in this thread and the fact is that it only carries something like 5000 vehicles a day across Roscommon and east Mayo as far as Swinford...thereafter to Westport is busier.

There is no justification for HQDC on that eastern part of the N5 as in zero as in zip. None at all.

Once the N5 and N4 join then something approaching HQDC may be justfiable THEREAFTER to Mullingar and Westip has made an excellent case for doing so in Carrick on Shannon not in Longford and abandoning the current N5 across Roscommon to an R road...in the main.

2+2 could be considered on the N5 only in extremis but best build hybrid 2+2 and offline single ( widen it out from single to 2+2 for 5km every 20km so you can dodge the doddery micra driver and then back to single again. The Charlestown bypass could be retrofitted as 2+2 it is so wide.

If you build offline single and stop the locals from building country and western lounges, tractor dealerships and the like along its length then you can widen it in future. Not protecting such an alignment would be criminal. I would do the same with the N21 and N22 , mix 2+2 and s2 offline and ruthlessly protect the alignment.

Pete_Cavan

Jayuu wrote: »

I can't really agree with this idea. Given the upgrade of the A5 in the north to DC standard it would seem to me that it makes more sense that the M3 be routed to meet this north of Monaghan which would give Derry a proper DC quality link to Dublin and justify in some way the construction of the M3.

It would make a lot more sense to continue the N3 to Sligo, not Monaghan. For Monaghan traffic and traffic coming from the North using the A5, using the M1 is a much more direct and much faster route to Dublin with Castleblaney and Carrickmacross bypassed. Extending the M3 to Monaghan would just add a lot of time and distance to the journey by bringing Monaghan and Northern traffic south-west towards Cavan while the M1 is less of a journey as the crow flies.

Jayuu wrote: »

I also think that the N5 improvements could be done starting now even given our restricted financial situation as they wouldn't be massive costs involved. The N4 could be worked on in tandem.

Why bother with improving both of these roads when, again, they take a very indirect route to Dublin. Doing constant small improvement works and the odd bypass is not going to improve things in the region. Just build a new N5 to Castlebar but route it almost due west from Longford, running to the north of Ballyhaunis and to the south of Knock airport. This would be a lot shorter than the existing N5. Then downgrade the existing N4 and N5 to R roads, which better reflects their condition, and let the county council maintain them.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

2+2 could be considered on the N5 only in extremis but best build hybrid 2+2 and offline single ( widen it out from single to 2+2 for 5km every 20km so you can dodge the doddery micra driver and then back to single again. The Charlestown bypass could be retrofitted as 2+2 it is so wide.

2+2 would be good enough for the N3 and N5 I am describing. Bear in mind that it will be at least 10 - 15 years before these projects could progress to construction in which time all the other major roads projects would be completed. At this stage spending money to improve the roads in the part of the country which has the poorest network could be justified. You may say there is not the volume of traffic to justify 2+2 but the only way to spark investment and development in this part of the country is to build proper roads there.

This is my view for the primary road network in the west and border region. Note the Atlantic Corridor is not shown but the new N3 and N5 would tie into this.

L1011

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Then downgrade the existing N4 and N5 to R roads, which better reflects their condition, and let the county council maintain them.

Barring the north-of-Castlebaldwin section, the N4 is one of the most consistantly high quality single carraigeway N roads in the country and also has DC sections at Roosky and in to Sligo (HQDC there). Its nothing like the N5!

marmurr1916

The link from the M1 to the N2, along with improvements to the N2 will probably go ahead at some point - whenever's there's money!

But I can't see your proposed road from the M3 to Sligo ever being built, or the other road.

It's most likely that the NRA will develop the N4 as dual carriageway (a mixture of 2+2 and HQDC) from Mullingar to beyond Boyle, and from Castlebaldwin to Sligo.

L1011

They're not going to leave a 10km gap between Boyle and Castlebaldwin either (I expect you meant that, just it reads like two distinct stretches with a gap left)

Ren2k7

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It would make a lot more sense to continue the N3 to Sligo.

The N3 already serves a large town, Enniskillen. The existing alignment is fine but i see your point about the N5. If its ever upgraded the NRA will probably realign it in a similar fashion to what was done with the N6 past Athlone to Galway.

Jayuu

Don't want to go off topic here and talk too much about the M3 but I really don't agree with an N2 link to the M1. All that will do is push all the old N2 traffic into the same corridoor as the M1 with potential for problems at the end of the M1/M50.

If the M3 was going to be extended as far as Cavan anyway then the distance between there and the A5 at the border is actually less than the distance between the A5 and the M1. It would be better to create an alternative route into Dublin for this traffic that pushing it all onto the M1 and it makes the M3 a far more useful route.

Actually I don't think either route will be built in the near future but I'd hate to see no improvement on the N4 which needs it now for the sake of some future possible M3 project.

veryangryman

Jayuu wrote: »

Don't want to go off topic here and talk too much about the M3 but I really don't agree with an N2 link to the M1. All that will do is push all the old N2 traffic into the same corridoor as the M1 with potential for problems at the end of the M1/M50.

Wow - one bottleneck. For the sake of the money saved by doing the N2-M1 link, they could use whats spare to sort out the junctions.

Even if they didnt, and it added an extra 5 minutes at M1/M50, who would care. You could have the Derry and Belfast routes covered at such a reduced cost. Id sooner sit 5 mins in traffic than be paying for this through the nose in tax.

The N3 idea is not a runner IMO. Its already DC for too far and hopefully the voting public will realise this and vote pokerface Dempsey out come next election.

Chris_5339762

The M1 will not be linked to the N2 as then everyone will avoid the M1 toll. Its not going to happen, and is the sole reason why the Slane bypass still isnt being pushed.

Pete_Cavan

Jayuu wrote: »

Don't want to go off topic here and talk too much about the M3 but I really don't agree with an N2 link to the M1. All that will do is push all the old N2 traffic into the same corridoor as the M1 with potential for problems at the end of the M1/M50.

A short section of the M1 is currently being upgraded to 3 lanes at the Dublin end and this can continue to be upgraded. The M3 coming into Dublin is by no means the ideal approach into the city. The M1 approach will require upgrading anyway so makes more sense to upgrade the M1 approach to accommodate N2 traffic then it does to redo all the work currently being done on the M/N3 approach in a few years time to accommodate N2 traffic.

Jayuu wrote: »

If the M3 was going to be extended as far as Cavan anyway then the distance between there and the A5 at the border is actually less than the distance between the A5 and the M1. It would be better to create an alternative route into Dublin for this traffic that pushing it all onto the M1 and it makes the M3 a far more useful route.

The M3 may be closer to where the A5 meets the border then the M1 but to link the A5 and M3 you would have to bring the traffic south-west towards Cavan, adding a lot to the journey. As the crows flies, the shortest (and cheapest to construct) route from the border to Dublin is via Castleblaney, Carrickmacross and Ardee and onto the M1.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The M1 will not be linked to the N2 as then everyone will avoid the M1 toll. Its not going to happen, and is the sole reason why the Slane bypass still isnt being pushed.

The M1 toll is south of Drogheda and Ardee so the N2 could be linked to the M1 through the N33 at Ardee and traffic travelling to Dublin would have to pay the toll. Makes a lot more sense to improve the short stretch of N33 between Ardee and M1 then to improve the N2 from Ardee to link with the M2 at Ashbourne. The M2 is the most pointless motorway in the country and should never have been built.

westtip

Jayuu wrote: »

Would seem to be a fairly sensible route in that it necessitates only one crossing on the Shannon and avoids the railway line. It would be great to see this project completed as Carrick-on-Shannon is a major bottleneck on the N4. Are there definite plans to build this or is it just a case of bringing it to the design stage?

I travel the N4 quite a bit and TBH, this plan looks great but I cannot see it getting high up the priority list, Carrick on Shannon can be a bottle neck but the traffic does not go through the town centre anymore, and the real hold ups tend to be when there is flooding of the road between the Tesco Roundabout and the second roundabout coming in from Dublin, and if that road is flooded there must be weather bad enough to say don't bother driving!On the whole the N4 is now a pretty good route, I think the priority on the route has to be the DC from Longford to Mullingar, and long term to Carrick, but that said passing through Carrick as a bottle neck does not fill me with the kind of depression one would have approaching Enfield a few years back.

Ren2k7 wrote: »

I remember hearing a while back about a possible cross country route from sligo via cavan to dundalk. As someone who used the cavan to dundalk stretch a lot I can tell you it's badly needed.

.

Yesterday I had to travel back to the northwest from Drogheda and took the cross country - route - Slane, Kells, Cavan, Belturbet, Derrylin, blacklion (via Florencecourt), on to Sligo on the N15. My god it made me angry about the promise for a cross border route from either Newry/Dundalk to sligo as promised in the programme for Government. The new DC from Kells to just short of Virginia is a massive fillip but the N3 approaching Belturbet and the border remains one of those roads I must put on the to be avoided at all costs list. Its a death trap - and it doesn't help when a horse trotting rally/meeing is allowed to use the road for a meet on a Sunday afternoon (yes only in Ireland would a national route be allowed for this kind of shenigans).

On the N4/5 debate I stick with the idea of develop the N4 to Carrick (although I can't see the Dromod Carrick section happening too soon) and throw in a link road to the N5 across north roscommon (less pavement to be laid and avoids the Tulsk issues), but man oh man - that cross border route is important - for the North and for the North west, it was promised in the programme for Government but very little has been done. For the kind of journey I undertook yesterday I would be quite happy to drive to Dundalk and take a left to cross the country on a safe border straddling East-West axis route - Indeed this route could have been the solution for dublin bound (and Dublin Airport bound traffic in particular) for Monaghan/Cavan/Leitrim/Donegal/Fermanagh/Tyrone/Derry an indeed Sligo - as the primary route to Dublin. It should have been the priority to fill in the grid system on our national road network instead of harking back to the radial routes from Dublin (ie following the old route plans), alas the powers that be just wanted to try and get a motorway to everytown and county and Dempsey wanted three motorways to his county.

saywhatyousee

i travel the n4 quite a bit
i think it is a decent enough road except for small parts. The changes i would make are
HQDC from castlebaldwin to sligo
By pass carrick
the rest is fine i think castlebaldwin to colloney is a dangerous death trap
and needs the be sorted immeditaly

marmurr1916

MYOB wrote: »

They're not going to leave a 10km gap between Boyle and Castlebaldwin either (I expect you meant that, just it reads like two distinct stretches with a gap left)

A good part of that stretch was improved in the 1990s with climbing lanes added on the hilly sections, bends removed etc. I don't think it's going to be upgraded to 2+2 because of the hilly nature of the terrain and the fact that the 1990s upgrade has given a v. good quality road, with sufficient overtaking opportunities (except for the very impatient!).

westtip

Jayuu wrote: »

Don't want to go off topic here and talk too much about the M3 but I really don't agree with an N2 link to the M1. All that will do is push all the old N2 traffic into the same corridoor as the M1 with potential for problems at the end of the M1/M50.

.

The M1 is under utilised for its capacity. M1/2/3 north south axis should all have been on the same axis corridor. M2 or HQDC of the N2 is totally unnecessary - steer all the traffic to M1, makes sense and fully utilises the M1. Most Irish motorways bar the few miles of radial routes into dublin and the M50 at peak times are totally underused in terms of capacity.

this thread though is steering off topic from N4/5 to M3/2/1 so perhaps the conversation should take place elsewhere.

Pete_Cavan

Ren2k7 wrote: »

I remember hearing a while back about a possible cross country route from sligo via cavan to dundalk. As someone who used the cavan to dundalk stretch a lot I can tell you it's badly needed.

Extending the N3 as I described (via Cavan, Carrick-on-Shannon and on to Sligo) along with the Leinster Outer Orbital Route (Navan to Drogheda section) would basically cover this border route. The LOOR has a good chance of being built, although unlike in the next 10 years. Extending the N3 to serve Cavan, Leitrim and Sligo, with a combined population of 150,000, would make more sense then having two national primaries to serve the region.

westtip

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Extending the N3 as I described (via Cavan, Carrick-on-Shannon and on to Sligo) along with the Leinster Outer Orbital Route (Navan to Drogheda section) would basically cover this border route. The LOOR has a good chance of being built, although unlike in the next 10 years. Extending the N3 to serve Cavan, Leitrim and Sligo, with a combined population of 150,000, would make more sense then having two national primaries to serve the region.

Pete I wouldn't disagree with you nor would many others - trouble is no one with a nouse of sense was ever involved in the planning of these routes. A grid system of national motorways or HQDC's should have been the plan from day one:

East - West route straddling the border (to serve North west and north) - on an an across and down route to dublin or across and up route to Belfast.

East - West rout on the N6 - done.

East - West "loop" route running from Limerick to Thurles and Carlow with spurs to Cork and waterford - would have delivered good connectivity with less road pavement laid.

connect up the ends of each of these east west axis with north south axis either side of the country.

It would have meant a lot less road pavement and delivered a more equal motorway system to the entire country - no one would have been more than a 40 minute drive from a DC system that would link the entire country. Yes routes would not have been as direct but traffic management woudl have been perfect.

Ren2k7

TBH, I don't think the govt has the stomach to go about overhauling the national roads network. The Dublin centric National Primary Routeways will probably remain as the template for any future dc/motorways despite if more sensible route alignments are suggested.

Neworder79

"The Taoiseach, who was accompanied by officials of the Department of Transport, told the deputation that both the Longford bypass and the Ballaghaderreen bypass would go to construction in 2011....In relation to the 35km stretch between Scramogue and Frenchpark — another key concern of the Mayo Industries Group — he said that an environmental impact study would be a priority"

Mayo industries group met with the the Taoiseach again last week to discuss the N5 following the expansion announcement by Hollister in Ballina. If those two schemes do survive the budget it will probably be the last we'll see on N5 for a long time.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/32538

Sponge Bob

Neworder79 wrote: »

"The Taoiseach, who was accompanied by officials of the Department of Transport, told the deputation that both the Longford bypass and the Ballaghaderreen bypass would go to construction in 2011.... If those two schemes do survive the budget it will probably be the last we'll see on N5 for a long time.

Yep, until they accept Westtips plan to go straight from Ballaghadereen to Carrick on Shannon.

Pete_Cavan

I remember seeing on etenders last week that the consultancy contract for the Longford bypass has been awarded.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT177441

They are only at prequal stage for appointing consultants on the Ballaghaderreen Bypass.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT177355

marmurr1916

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yep, until they accept Westtips plan to go straight from Ballaghadereen to Carrick on Shannon.

It makes no sense to have the N5 starting at Longford, especially given the archaeological complex at Rathcroghan near Tulsk.

It would be much better to start the N5 either at Carrick on Shannon, roughly following the line of the R370 or at Boyle, roughly following the line of the R361.

Tech3

Drove the entire length of the N4 last week and have to say it is one of the better N roads in this country. Carrick-on-Shannon was ok passing by but I can imagine this is the most congested bit of the N4. The worst bit of the whole route is from Cloonamahon-Castlebaldwin where the road is narrow single carriageway with dangerous bends.

When I passed this stetch it has crosses erected along it to symbol the deaths this part of the N4 has caused over the past few years. It's also part of a campaign to get this stretch upgraded promto:

White crosses on N4 mark rising death toll of road









White crosses have been erected on the notorious stretch of the N4 between Castlebaldwin and Cloonamahon to highlight that there have been 29 deaths on the road over the past 40 years.

The wooden crosses were put up along the road side on Sunday morning by members of the N4 Action Group, which has been campaigning for the past three years to have the stretch upgraded.

Action group member Bernard Mulhern said that they had erected the crosses to highlight to drivers just how dangerous the road is.

“Already the feedback we are getting is that traffic has slowed down.

“I think it has had a spine-chilling affect on motorists. People are shocked at the number of crosses, each of which represents a death, on such a short stretch of road.”

And he said that apart from the fatalities there were numerous other crashes.

“They are happening on a weekly, even a daily basis. A lot of them are not even reported. People travelling that road on a daily basis will have had numerous near misses.”

This 11kms section is the only part of the Sligo-Boyle road which has not been upgraded. That is one of the reasons why Bernard Mulhern feels it is so dangerous.

“People are coming off very good roads from both ends on to what is a substandard road.”

He said that they had got permission from families of the deceased to erect the crosses. But he said that out of sensitivity they were not in the exact spot where someone was killed but close to it.

Those erecting the crosses also cut grass and bushes along the roadside so that the crosses would be very visible.

“We want to alert people to just how dangerous the road is and get them to slow down.”

He said that the group wanted to see the road prioritised for upgrading but that in the meantime remedial work should be carried out to the most dangerous parts.

“That work needs to be done now and a lot could be done for very little.”

The action group are hoping that their initiative will help save lives by making drivers aware of the danger.

“If it prevents even one fatality it will have been worthwhile,” said Bernard.

link

munchkin_utd

tech2 wrote: »

Drove the entire length of the N4 last week and have to say it is one of the better N roads in this country. Carrick-on-Shannon was ok passing by but I can imagine this is the most congested bit of the N4. The worst bit of the whole route is from Cloonamahon-Castlebaldwin where the road is narrow single carriageway with dangerous bends.

link

Strangely, I was thinking about this yesterday (when pondering over various threads that claim that Sligo is the most shafted place on the PLANET)

The N4 as a whole is pretty high standard. The new longford bypass (of the by pass) though seems to be the most extravagant waste of money proposed by the authorities that be.
Dangerous sections like Castlebaldwin that have never been upgraded to a decent standard surely must take priority over building a dual carraigeway, to replace a reasonable standard of road, linking the least (Leitrim) and second least (Longford) populated counties in Ireland!!

Well..... if the road is THAT important, maybe the 10s of millions a year in subsidising a rail Line through the 2 least populated counties in Ireland could be diverted into upgrading the road

BTW talking about low population!
I never realised that the population of the entire COUNTY of sligo was a mere 60,000 . Only Monaghan or Carlow are lower, aside from Longford/ Leitrim.

Is the importance of the N4 more a factor of its low numbering then, as opposed to any major importance in linking up ANY centres of population?
(and i say that half in jest, half brutal seriously)
Cork/ Kerry/ Limerick have a joint population of 806,000, 13.5 times that of Sligo yet somehow Sligo must have a motorway/ dual carraigeway to Dublin according to the din from that part of the country just like other "outlying areas" do

Madness

L1011

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Strangely, I was thinking about this yesterday (when pondering over various threads that claim that Sligo is the most shafted place on the PLANET)

The N4 as a whole is pretty high standard. The new longford bypass (of the by pass) though seems to be the most extravagant waste of money proposed by the authorities that be.
Dangerous sections like Castlebaldwin that have never been upgraded to a decent standard surely must take priority over building a dual carraigeway, to replace a reasonable standard of road, linking the least (Leitrim) and second least (Longford) populated counties in Ireland!!

Well..... if the road is THAT important, maybe the 10s of millions a year in subsidising a rail Line through the 2 least populated counties in Ireland could be diverted into upgrading the road

BTW talking about low population!
I never realised that the population of the entire COUNTY of sligo was a mere 60,000 . Only Monaghan or Carlow are lower, aside from Longford/ Leitrim.

Is the importance of the N4 more a factor of its low numbering then, as opposed to any major importance in linking up ANY centres of population?
(and i say that half in jest, half brutal seriously)
Cork/ Kerry/ Limerick have a joint population of 806,000, 13.5 times that of Sligo yet somehow Sligo must have a motorway/ dual carraigeway to Dublin according to the din from that part of the country just like other "outlying areas" do

Madness

The N4 doesn't solely serve Sligo, it serves Donegal, Leitrim, Roscommon and parts of Mayo too.

County Sligo + County Donegal = over 200,000 people alone. There's probably another 50,000 in the catchment of the sections which are to be upgraded to DC.

Bear in mind that Donegal has *nothing* in terms of other transport. The airport is in a very isolated part of the county nowhere near the population bases; it has no rail line; and even going through another country to get back to the Republic still requires a relatively poor road (A5) and a very poor road (N2 or N53).

Traffic counts are higher than you'd likely imagine if you think its just for Sligo.

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yep, until they accept Westtips plan to go straight from Ballaghadereen to Carrick on Shannon.

Believe me Sponge this is the only show in town - as the debate long ago I think on this very thread clearly showed Tulsk and the surrounding townlands is a complete non-starter. They lay down less pavement and solve the whole issue of connectivity to the west and northwest from Dublin with the northern link road. I must fish out the letter I got from Fred Barry on it - he certainly did not deny this idea - in fact he referred directly to it as Plan B. As ever with planning in this country when the flabby white boys start making comments - it gets frightening, how we can leave the plannnin of our infrastucture down to the decision making abilities of our politicians is quite beyond comprehension. As that well known irish supermarket says.

The difference is we're irish. (in fact this supermarket has far fewer irish shareholders than Tesco's - the irish supermarket is owned by one family as opposed to thousands of worker company sharescheme share holders and people whose pension funds have some ownership in Tesco - another aside but......

Neworder79

Despite all the progress of the last 10 years, the W/NW region stands out as the last access blackspot in our national road network. It will likely remain that way for at least the next 5 years as most of the BMW region road projects are on hold or without funding.

I doubt a new Government will have much to offer with further budget austerity likely to hit capital spending, unless part of a stimulus plan. Latest policy from Fine Gael is an "Adopt a road" scheme to attract private funding, which doesn't inspire much hope.

An article in this weeks Mayo News shows Mayo Co Co have given up on progressing long planned projects as NRA funding projections look grim. Some minor realignments going ahead but most of the budget now for maintenance.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11962:road-block-for-n5-and-n26&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Having a look around online at current project status in Connaught region:

Probably safe
N5 Longford bypass Funded, scheduled to commence 2011
N17 Tuam bypass PPP Tender stage
N59 Westport - Mulranny Funded 2011 (realignment)
N5 Ballaghaderreen bypass passed CPO/OH but not on NRA program for 2011.

Life support
N5 Westport - Castlebar Design funded 2011, pre CPO
(Reduced scheme includes Westport northern relief road and Castlebar bypass).
N17 Tuam to Claremorris Not funded 2011
N17 Tobercurry - Knock Bypass Not funded 2011
N17 Colooney - Tobercurry Not funded 2011

Dead
N26 P2 Ballina - Bohola Not funded (may as well be Suspended).
N60 Castlebar - Claremorris Suspended (some funding for realignment)
N5 Scramoge to Ballaghderreen Suspended
N59 Ballina Relief Suspended
N59 Ballina - Crossmolina Suspended
N84 Ballinrobe Relief Suspended
N60 Ballyhanus Relief Suspended

(couldn't find any details on Sligo projects)

Tech3

This might ruffle a few feathers but why develop the N5? The N17 is more priority as it is part of the Atlantic corridor. Why not invest into the N17 Tuam-Claremorrris project and upgrade the N60 after the M17/M18 is built or during construction?

saywhatyousee

Tech3 wrote: »

This might ruffle a few feathers but why develop the N5? The N17 is more priority as it is part of the Atlantic corridor. Why not invest into the N17 Tuam-Claremorrris project and upgrade the N60 after the M17/M18 is built or during construction?

between colloney and tubbercurry is in bad need of an upgrade,i hate collecting friends and relatives in knock,i feel embarrassed by the state of the road

Cosmo Kramer

So despite the shelving of most of the planned road schemes in Leo Varadkar's announcement, it looks like there may be hope for the Ballaghaderreen bypass. Even then, there doesn't seem to be anything definite in terms of timescales for its development, but at least it seems to have jumped the queue a bit. It would at least take away a portion of the misery involved in travelling by road from Mayo to Dublin at present.

veryangryman

Tech3 wrote: »

This might ruffle a few feathers but why develop the N5? The N17 is more priority as it is part of the Atlantic corridor. Why not invest into the N17 Tuam-Claremorrris project and upgrade the N60 after the M17/M18 is built or during construction?

Combined demand of Westport, Ballina, Castlebar, Swinford, Foxford and the fact that all have been poo-poo'd for individual bypasses makes it remotely viable. Plus the fact that Taoiseach is from Mayo.

Neworder79

Allergan, Baxter (x2), Hollister, Coca Cola... etc all on N5. Would actually be worse off in terms of longer haulage journey times via N60-N17-M6 than the current N5-M4.

The big Westport-Bohola DC plan was already scrapped. I dont expect any major work on N5 for a long time.

Most of the Mayo N5 is wide good quality SC with hard shoulder. Carracastle-Charlestown, Swinford, Bohola, Ballyvary bypassed over last 30 years so it has less ribbon development than some other N routes.

Westport-Castlebar is in contrast a very poor narrow windy section with reglar accidents and some of the highest traffic numbers on the whole N5. That and removing Ballaghaderreen bottleneck would make a huge improvement to the route.

Not sure if remaining Ballaghaderreen-Strokestown section will ever be tackled but some smaller schemes and passing areas could improve safety.

Neworder79

N5 Ballaghaderreen bypass tendering to start "immediately" with construction to begin in 2012 according to Roscommon FG TD Frank Feighan. He says he has assurance that "the money has been ring-fenced" by minster Varadkar to fast-track completion of the project which is considered shovel ready.

http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/5452-construction-to-begin-next-year-of-ballaghaderreen-by-pass.html

gally74

First stroke from Kenny n 17 more important

road_high

Neworder79 wrote: »

N5 Ballaghaderreen bypass tendering to start "immediately" with construction to begin in 2012 according to Roscommon FG TD Frank Feighan. He says he has assurance that "the money has been ring-fenced" by minster Varadkar to fast-track completion of the project which is considered shovel ready.

http://www.midwestradio.ie/mwr/news/5452-construction-to-begin-next-year-of-ballaghaderreen-by-pass.html

Has Enda Kenny writen all over it!! Road improvement (albeit badly needed) serving his constituency ala Cowen and Tullamore bypass. And also soften the blow of the A&E closure in Roscommon so the local FG TDs can point to something positive locally.

L1011

At least its not actually *in* Mayo, but the N5 in Mayo was already Flynned up to a rather high standard...

dubhthach

One of the obvious issues with working on the N5 in Roscommon will be the amount of archaelogical remains around "Cruchain Ai" (Tulsk) it would be Tara Mark II

lotusm

Ballaghaderreen-Strokestown is the worst part of the N5 and I would say also in national road terms... its badly needs to be upgraded... Tourists will not travel long distances from Dublin, commuting time has to be bought doen to 2.5 hours to get to the likes of Castlebar /Ballina.

dubhthach

Tbh damaging Cruchan Ai won't get you anymore tourists, there needs to be a new road alignment that completely avoids the site.





I see that it's been listed as a potential UNESCO world heritage site (along with other royal sites)

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5528/

Cosmo Kramer

It is of course Kenny related and with Longford being sorted as well it will make major inroads in terms of Mayo to Dublin travel. However as neither scheme is in Mayo it doesn't look too obvious in terms of looking after his own constituents.

The remaining 20 miles of the N5 are practically unfixable as discussed above and will remain in place for a long time, however the journey to Mayo is becoming increasingly easier and this can only be good news for an area that was massively overlooked in terms of infrastructure in the last decade.

Sponge Bob

Ballaghadereen and Longford, if bypassed, remove the 'variability' involved in travelling to and from Mayo. Westtips proposal to send the N5 due east from Ballaghadereen to Carrick on Shannon is the only game in town to my mind now that Royal Complex is in UNESCO land.

It could take up to 10 years for that World Heritage Site application to be decided, game over for Frenchpark/Tulsk .....surely.

dubhthach

Not only that the geophysics and Magnetic survey have found some fairly large structures. For example Cruchan mound (Rathcrogran) was found to have a palisaded circular enclosure 360metres in Diameter around it which has a Rock cut ditch about 5meteres wide. Here's an image of the geophysical survey



Image taken from this PDF:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/documents/waddell_2009_rathcroghan.pdf

PDF specifically on the mound and the buried inner circle in it.

http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/oldsite/documents/the_innermost_rathcroghan.pdf

Cruchan Ai is by far one of most important sites in Irish mythology and history. Not only does is it the starting point of the Táin (as well as site of the battle between the two bulls) but also the center of power for the Connachta and their descendant dynasties. The Uí Briúin Ai continued inaguration there until the 17th century (The O'Connor Don), plus the earliest writings on the Uí Néill state that Niall reigned from Cruchan and not Tara, thence the stories about the likes of both Niall and Laoghaire been buried in and around Cruchan.

Also "Uaimh na gCat" is the point where the dead are suppose to enter the world of the living on Oíche Shamhna (Halloween).

Neworder79

Public information day on the proposed N5 Westport to Turlough road project are being held this week in Castlebar, Westport and Turlough (Museum). Final designs on display and 3D renderings of major junctions. The project is in phase 4 and ready to move to CPO & EIS, subject to approval and funding.

No major changes to the recent plan, despite some concerns raised about T2 DC design (central wire barrier) and lack of a junction between Westport and Castlebar. There are several underpass and link roads provided for affected housing and villages such as at Islandeady.

Junctions are compact GS joining the N5 at Turlough, GS interface with N84 & N60, and 80m roundabout crossing existing N5 at Castlebar and again terminating at Westport.

The Westport - N59 northern relief road has been moved slightly further north to route around the IDA park which has has recently been purchased by Allergan Pharma.

Cosmo Kramer

Neworder79 wrote: »

Public information day on the proposed N5 Westport to Turlough road project are being held this week in Castlebar, Westport and Turlough (Museum). Final designs on display and 3D renderings of major junctions. The project is in phase 4 and ready to move to CPO & EIS, subject to approval and funding.

No major changes to the recent plan, despite some concerns raised about T2 DC design (central wire barrier) and lack of a junction between Westport and Castlebar. There are several underpass and link roads provided for affected housing and villages such as at Islandeady.

Junctions are compact GS joining the N5 at Turlough, GS interface with N84 & N60, and 80m roundabout crossing existing N5 at Castlebar and again terminating at Westport.

The Westport - N59 northern relief road has been moved slightly further north to route around the IDA park which has has recently been purchased by Allergan Pharma.

Anyone know whether there are up to date online plans available to view for this stage of the project?

dubhthach

Documents on the scheme can be seen here:
http://www.regdesign.com/projects/n5westport-to-turlough.html

PDF map of scheme here:
http://www.regdesign.com/pdf%20files/n5westport-turlough/maps-drawings-photos/overallmap-of-scheme.pdf

Neworder79

Those files are over 2 years old, hopefully they will put up the latest designs also. Can never understand why planning offices can organise brochures and open days but can't upload the content to their websites.

spacetweek

In fairness with Longford nearly done, Ballaghderreen starting this year, if you built this scheme pretty much the whole N5 would be up to scratch standardwise.

dubhthach

Neworder79 wrote: »

Those files are over 2 years old, hopefully they will put up the latest designs also. Can never understand why planning offices can organise brochures and open days but can't upload the content to their websites.

Not all of them, the Map is from September 2011, there is also an update from December 2011. This contains following titbit:

Following the decision by An Bord Pleanála (ABP) to refuse the N26 Ballina to Bohola Stage 2 Road Scheme a separate study was undertaken to check the validity of the connection point of the N26 and N5.   Based on the conclusions of this study it was decided to terminate the N5 Westport to Bohola Road Project at a point east of Turlough village from where the route may be continued as best suits the future re‐evaluation of the N26 connection. The new scheme resulting from this decision, the N5 Westport to Turlough Road Project is the scheme currently under consideration.

http://www.regdesign.com/pdf%20files/n5westport-turlough/project-update/Project%20Update%20161211.pdf

The older documents on route selection show all the way to Bohola, the map that from September however confirms to above paragraph.

lotusm

Think I should have put this link here regarding the N5 from strokestown to french park:D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055673984&page=76

SeanW

It's a shame the Mullingar to Longford dual carriageway was suspended because I use that road a lot and I routinely find it choc-a-bloc, indeed I was coming home last Friday evening and the narrow stretch between Longford and Edgeworthstown was closed because of a head-on collision (not surprising given the massive volume).

I know there's no chance of the project going ahead even this decade because of the state of the economy, but I wonder, could it be cut up into those little projects the gov't is now doing?

By that I mean having Motorway grade bypassees of Ballinalack and Rathowen, and a 2+2 with roundabouts realignment from Longford to after Newtownforbes, all built with a view to including them as pieces of a much larger realignment to be completed in phases later on.

I've attached some pics: blue line = suggested T1DC, dark green line = T2DC and light green = new RS2 for temporary/side roads, and black circle = roundabout.

L1011

It'd be entirely possible (indeed that's how the N4 got to its current fairly OK standard further north - many small schemes) but it'd involve a total redesign from the current plans.

Newtownforbes is probably the most urgently needed of any sectiondue to the two 90 degree turns and the speed at which most traffic enters the town when heading west.

Ballinalack and Rathowen would be better served by one single stretch of road - the existing plans were to go south of the two towns and then back online almost till the railway bridge at Edgesworthstown.

The online sections are pretty extensive and could be done piecemeal also - Roosky to where the road diverges to bypass Newtownforbes and Mullingar to Ballinalack (barring one minor diversion) are entirely online. The only major diversion is Edgesworthstown to Newtownforbes.