Does poverty exist in Ireland?

mikemac

Possibly a thread for Humanities forum, mods feel free to move if needs be

Well to start with from stats from Combat Poverty Ireland

Consistent Poverty enforced deprivation 216,232 people 5.1%
At Risk of Poverty relative poverty 699,575 people 16.5%

Are you outraged at close to one million people close to poverty?
Or are you like me and saying, huh I never realised such a problem existed??

At Risk of Poverty

This is also known as relative poverty or income poverty . It means having an income that is below 60% of the median income (the median is the mid-point on the scale of incomes in Ireland). In 2007, that was an income of below €228.65 a week for an adult.

Consistent Poverty

This means having an income below 60% of the median and also experiencing enforced deprivation. This means being on a low income and not being able to afford basic necessities such as new clothes, not having the money to buy food such as meat or fish, not being able to heat your home, or having to go into debt to pay ordinary household bills.

Some definitions there.
Now I've read plently of posts here that welfare needs to be cut. Does this post change your opinion or not at all?

You see it there folks, the dole rate puts people at poverty levels! They don't make reference to medical cards, rent allowance or other benefits that PAYE workers can't avail of though.
Don't flame me for posting 2007 stats, that's all that's all available atCPA (Combat Poverty Ireland)

Debate away
Or let this thread fail

maxwell smart

There is a large amount of poverty in Ireland. There are plenty of people who the Celtic Tiger never even bothered to piss on. Some of them are trapped in a vicious cycle that is only going to get worse....I fear for lots of people in that position

dave-higgz

This whole 60% poverty line seems very unusual to me. Should there not just be an international working definition of poverty. We're still a very wealthy country and so to be paid under 60% of the median is satisfactory for some and to those in other countries is a blessing.

Maybe I'm being inconsiderate and apologies if I am, but I would have thought that €200 weekly is enough to live on. I know some people are caught in debt after being given reckless mortgages etc. however those who aren't should be able to afford the seldom purchase of new clothes, in Penny's for example. Also meat, fish and other foods shouldn't amount to more €50 weekly for meals. With Aldi and Lidl it's very cheap to eat these days.

Also, if any of these people who are at risk continue to drink or smoke or indulge in any other discretionary products then they hardly deserve the sympathy of being called "in poverty".

I realize that these are unacceptable cuts in household budgets considering our countries recent wealth, however when your forced onto the dole by the loss of your job you have to prioritize.

Keith186

To answer your question, of course poverty exists in Ireland, I can't think of state where it doesn't exist apart from possibly somewhere like Monaco.

To say that's it's at 60% is a lie. 6 out of 10 people are not in poverty in Ireland. Their may be no exact definition of poverty but if it's definition results in 60% of people in this country being classified as 'in poverty' it's clearly wrong as it's clearly not the case.

jhegarty

By the 60% definition we just need to loose loads of jobs and drop wage enough that the dole is 61% of the average wage.

Then no one will be in danger of poverty.

gurramok

Just count the homeless that survive a night in the cold and also count those in hostels relying on charity meals to survive.
And then count all those who live in deprived areas with no escape living crap lives so yes there are lots of people poverty stricken.

NewDubliner

mikemac wrote: »

Well to start with from stats from Combat Poverty Ireland

They are referring to 'relative' poverty.

It's commonly accepted that there is 'absolute' poverty and there is 'relative poverty.

The former is where you don't have enough food for basic survival, no access to drinking water, no sanitation, no education, no justice. These are the unfortunate, wretched, doomed people you'll see in charity appeals. This is absolute poverty.

'Releative poverty' is where people have a significantly lower lifestyle to that enjoyed by the majority of their fellows.

jhegarty

NewDubliner wrote: »

'Releative poverty' is where people have a significantly lower lifestyle to that enjoyed by the majority of their fellows.

In the same way someone in Monaco is relatively poor becuase they only have a small yacht and only one Ferrari.

conlonbmw

Anyone who has visited India knows what real poverty is.

The term poverty is being used lightly in describing poor Irish residents. The majority of poor people here are in self inflicted poverty, usually due to lack of parential responsibility.

gurramok

conlonbmw wrote: »

The term poverty is being used lightly in describing poor Irish residents. The majority of poor people here are in self inflicted poverty, usually due to lack of parential responsibility.

Born with a wooden spoon. Its their fault alright.:mad:

Maybe, they should of went to a private college for education.

Karlusss

dave-higgz wrote: »

This whole 60% poverty line seems very unusual to me. Should there not just be an international working definition of poverty.

Are you joking? Standards of living differ wildly from country to country. If there was an "international working definition" other than a %-based one, no-one in Ireland would be below the poverty line, possibly including homeless people who beg the value of a hostel.

As for the lack of "parential responsibility" referenced in the post above this one: that makes no sense at all. It's not like everyone starts with an equal income and loses it or increases it based on how responsible their parents were. If there's no tradition of education in a family, education isn't prioritised. Without education there's no inclination to break out of the malaise of inner-city/estate life, and not a whole lot of prospects beyond truly exceptional self-making efforts (which are rare in every social group).

This poverty trap stuff is pretty broadly accepted, like. I'm not coming from left-field with this.

Zynks

This looks more like an issue of semantics. To me this 60% figure measures distribution of wealth, not poverty.

MoominPapa

Poor people find themselves in self inflicted poverty due to their parents? Does not scan

Black Swan

Keith186 wrote: »

To say that's it's at 60% is a lie. 6 out of 10 people are not in poverty in Ireland. Their may be no exact definition of poverty but if it's definition results in 60% of people in this country being classified as 'in poverty' it's clearly wrong as it's clearly not the case.

They are not saying 60% of the population of Ireland or 6 out of 10 people are in poverty. You are not reading the definition used correctly. Poverty was defined in the OP as those people falling 60% below the median income. The median income is the mid-point in the population distribution; i.e., if you rank-ordered income from highest to lowest for all the people in Ireland, whom would be at the middle, with half the people above them and half the people below them? Thus, who is 60% below that median (mid-point) in income distribution is in poverty, not 60% of the total population.

old boy

conlonbmw wrote: »

Anyone who has visited India knows what real poverty is.

The term poverty is being used lightly in describing poor Irish residents. The majority of poor people here are in self inflicted poverty, usually due to lack of parential responsibility.

as a disabled person i have to disagree with you, as disabled people are dependant on the state and friends /relatives for what little they get, also go into any house in any deprived area kids will have play stations etc etc because the parents have prositiuted themselves to make them advailable, how come that around christmas comunnion and conformation times the amount of new electrical items on the for sale ads are so plentyful, they are got on h.p. then sold to have ready cash for the day, then the pay back is real pain. it is the understanding of actual poverty not the statistics which is required, both sides of the coin need to be experienced to appreciate the meaning of poverty.

gurramok

700 queue for food parcels in Dublin.

http://examiner.ie/ireland/ididmhcwid/