Further action against Hamilton possible

vectra

A spokesman for F1's governing body late Thursday would not rule out ‘further action’ against McLaren Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton.

Following a reconvened stewards hearing at Sepang, the reigning world champion was excluded from the results of the Australian Grand Prix, having been found guilty of ‘deliberately misleading’ the Melbourne inquiry.

"We could not rule out further action at this stage," the spokesman said in Malaysia.

It is Hamilton and McLaren's breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code that could carry penalties ranging from reprimands to total exclusion from the championship. :rolleyes:

Rumours at Sepang suggested the matter could be referred by the FIA to the World Motor Sport Council.

McLaren Team Principal Martin Whitmarsh, however, insists that neither the team nor Hamilton 'lied'.


"I don't know what they meant by (deliberately misleading), you'd have to ask them," he said as he addressed swarms of media in the paddock.

"They believe that the omission of the information about the radio conversation between the team and Lewis was withheld and that is what they believe was misleading."

Triple world champion Niki Lauda told the German broadcaster RTL that he considers it ‘the biggest joke of all time’ that the FIA took four days to come to a definitive ruling about the incident.

amacachi

Lauda seems to be trying to live his lift through Hamilton.


I think a 5 or 10 place grid penalty this weekend would be sufficient, anything more is OTT IMO.

amacachi

Aye any punishment should just be at this race. Firstly I think that's all that's needed, secondly it would hopefully prevent the usual cries of victimisation from sources in the media.

amacachi

Having said all that, what people forget was that if this was the early/mid-nineties it would be more likely than not that there'd be a couple of races exclusion in store.

amacachi

My dad used to always say that, it's only in the last couple of years looking back at championships on wikipedia that I see how many DQs and race bans were thrown around back then. Then again his only interest in it back then was for gambling, so once he got the result on a Sunday night that was him done paying attention for 2 weeks :P

vectra

Well.
Vettel got a 10 spot penalty for defending his line
What should Hamilton get in that case for defending "his" points?

Dcully

I cant believe some people thinking this lying and cheating only deserves penalties like starting next race from pits or similar.
It was a blatant insult and mockery of the rules.
I think he and the team deserve to be banned from 2-3 races at the very least.

amacachi

We don't know all the facts. From what I've read it seems like a very small oversight by McLaren in the Stewards' meeting. I may be mistaken, but it's simply because we don't have the exact account of what happened.

RayM

On more than one occasion last year (but particularly at Spa), I thought Hamilton was treated unfairly by the FIA. However, this time, he's clearly as guilty as sin and should have the book thrown at him. I've just been listening to the audio files on the FIA's website, and the tone of his voice during that post-race interview reminded me of Schumacher whenever he was trying to defend his little misdemeanours. Pretty desperate stuff, just for the sake of one point (and in a season where he's unlikely to be fighting for the championship anyway).

He should be banned for at least one race. And as the team is up to its neck in it too, they shouldn't be allowed to temporarily replace him with De La Rosa or whoever.

T-Maxx

Bye-bye 3rd place...

and 4th, 5th, 6th......10th.:D

vectra

Well,
He lied so he knew about it.
The team are saying it was an oversight on their behalf.
The know they are as guilty as sin and are lying again to try an cover it up
mclaren as a team should be made an example of to send out the message that there will be no if's and but's this year.
Give the whole team a 2 race ban.

BUT
Not now when they are struggling
Hold that ban until around August or September when things are hot

Transcript of McLaren radio communication:


Phil Prew (race engineer to Hamilton): OK Lewis, you just need to make sure your delta's positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn't matter, but no overtaking. No overtaking.

Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in the second to last corner I overtook him is that OK?

PP: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.

LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

PP: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

(Hamilton yields to Trulli, unseen on TV screens)

LH: He's slowed right down in front of me.

PP: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We'll get back to you. We're talking to Charlie (Whiting, race director).

LH: I've let him past already.

PP: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

LH: Ask Charlie I already overtook him and I've just let him past so...

PP: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G5, yellow Golf 5.

LH: If I don't have to let him past then I should be able to take that position back, because he made a mistake.

Dave Ryan (team manager): Yes, we understand Lewis. Let's just do it by the book. We're asking Charlie now. You are in P4, if you hold this position. Just keep it together.

PP: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrott 2.

LH: Have you found out from Charlie on whether I can take it back or not?

PP: We're till waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

PP: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

DR: Lewis, If we are able to use, to deploy KERS that would be good. If you can deploy KERS please do so now.

PP: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

(Hamilton finishes the race fourth, behind Jarno Trulli)

amacachi

Based on that transcript I would like to know what was supposed to have been said in the stewards' meeting to contradict it.

mickdw

Judging by that transcript, it appears it was just normal confusion during the safety car in a situation where the rule isnt clear.
The part the stewards have a problem with is after that because I believe hamilton went crying to them looking for his 3rd place and obviously mislead them because Trulli got shafted. If it had only been genuine confusion over trulli being off track, I think the stewards would only have changed Trulli back to 4th.
Overall, I think they are of the opinion that Hamilton went out to shaft Trulli for his own illegal gain and this does deserve major penalty.
Race ban I say

Biro

The stewards are partly to blame for promoting him in the first place after the race without looking at the whole thing. He should have been told that he did the right thing, but is being penalised for lying, and quote his lies to him. Looks like he did the right thing in the race alright.

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

Based on that transcript I would like to know what was supposed to have been said in the stewards' meeting to contradict it.

you mean the stewarts meeting after the race?
if so
Hamilton blatently told the stewarts that he was NOT instructed to allow Trulli pass.
In other words he was saying Trulli illegally passed him

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

Hamilton blatently told the stewarts that he was NOT instructed to allow Trulli pass.

From the transcript:

PP: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We'll get back to you. We're talking to Charlie (Whiting, race director).

LH: I've let him past already.

PP: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

I don't see him being told to let Trulli back past.

Alun

amacachi wrote: »

From the transcript:

I don't see him being told to let Trulli back past.

Me neither. Being told it's OK that he'd let him past already is hardly the same as telling him to let him past, and therefore he wasn't lying to the Stewards when he said he hadn't been told.

As for Hamilton / McLaren going crying to the stewards after the race, do we actually have any evidence that this was the case, or did the stewards instigate the whole thing off their own bat?

Azza

Did you guys read the line before that???

Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

Alun

Azza wrote: »

Did you guys read the line before that???

Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

Ah, I hadn't seen that, I jumped into the thread half way through.

But what could he have gained by claiming he hadn't been told to let him through, when it was clear that the radio transcript would have shown that he was? Doesn't make sense to lie knowing that you could be found out that easily, does it?

vectra

Alun wrote: »

Ah, I hadn't seen that, I jumped into the thread half way through.

But what could he have gained by claiming he hadn't been told to let him through, when it was clear that the radio transcript would have shown that he was? Doesn't make sense to lie knowing that you could be found out that easily, does it?

Simple
He is a twat that thinks he owns F1 and can lie his way to the crown

Chopper888

Hamilton facing possible exclusion from the entire championship!!!

http://www.crash.net/Formula+One/News/144739/1/hamilton_facing_f1_world_championship_exclusion.html

lovinit

It sounds to me like McLaren were just desparate to get some points, but if they are lying now, when is it likely to end?? I would not be surprised if they penalised McLaren further.

EvilMonkey

Once again McLaren are outed as a team of cheats and liars. :pac:

Slutmonkey57b

Again, I haven't seen a single piece of information about what Hamilton supposedly said in the original steward's meeting that means he lied about something. Until the incompetent race officials provide that information, I'm holding off judgement.
The radio transcript certainly doesn't show a driver who's attempting to cheat.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Once again McLaren are outed as a team of cheats and liars. :pac:

And rightly so.

I laughed when I read the last comment on this report

In the wake of the hearing that saw the 2008 World Champion and his team
stripped of third place in Melbourne, accused of acting "in a manner prejudicial to
the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the
Stewards", an FIA spokesman has admitted that the Englishman could face
further sanctions.
"We cannot not rule out further action at this stage," said the spokesman.
While it is highly unlikely that possible action will be as draconian as some
sections of the media are claiming - some outlets claiming Hamilton could be
thrown out of the championship - there are bound to be calls for some form of punishment after the McLaren driver was found not only to have been guilty of being 'economical with the truth', but also remaining silent while Trulli was punished.
After all, there are some in F1 who believe Hamilton owes Toyota, even if they are referring to Trulli's teammate, Timo Glock.

:rolleyes:

Alun

vectra wrote: »

Simple
He is a twat that thinks he owns F1 and can lie his way to the crown

I don't believe that for a minute, he may be a bit young, immature and star-struck but I don't believe he's that stupid, and I believe there's more to this whole thing than initially meets the eye. If the FIA would release a transcript of their first meeting (if it exists, that is) that would help. After all, they did say last year that they'd be more open and transparent in all these kinds of dealings didn't they?

I'd be interested also to hear what exactly the now sacked Dave Ryan's part in all this was .. maybe pressure was put on Hamilton to say "the right thing" by him, I don't know.

vectra

Alun wrote: »

I don't believe that for a minute, he may be a bit young, immature and star-struck but I don't believe he's that stupid, and I believe there's more to this whole thing than initially meets the eye. If the FIA would release a transcript of their first meeting (if it exists, that is) that would help. After all, they did say last year that they'd be more open and transparent in all these kinds of dealings didn't they?

I'd be interested also to hear what exactly the now sacked Dave Ryan's part in all this was .. maybe pressure was put on Hamilton to say "the right thing" by him, I don't know.

I guess that the fact McLaren are not appealing the decision is enough to say it is 100% true

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

I guess that the fact McLaren are not appealing the decision is enough to say it is 100% true

Not really, since Toyota dropped their appeal too, despite being in the right according to the latest verdict.

Alun

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5137953,00.html

Seems like he was just doing as he was told ...

amacachi

I expect someone will be getting an extra storey on their house.

Firewalkwithme

Alun wrote: »

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5137953,00.html

Seems like he was just doing as he was told ...

I suspected that the team might have tried to lead him in that direction, after all they have been doing F1 for longer than he has and I have no doubt that they discussed what to say at the meeting prior to attending it. It looks very bad for McLaren and only slightly less so for Hamilton but at the end of the day, if he was told buy his employers to say what he did then he was in a very difficult position.

Biro

Alun wrote: »

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5137953,00.html

Seems like he was just doing as he was told ...

I had a feeling they'd spin it that way.

muckwarrior

Well obviously it couldn't be Lewis' fault.

sbEdge

In the stewards meeting, Lewis Hamilton and Dave Ryan were both asked if McLaren instructed Lewis to allow Trulli through. They both said no. The radio transcripts prove that this was a lie. They both lied. This was completely idiotic of them as they should have known that the radio communications would be available to the stewards. McLaren are now covering Lewis' ass by suspending Dave Ryan, who nobody really knows or cares about. They did not attempt to cheat on track, but lied to the stewards afterwards to make it appear that Trulli overtook illegally, very low and very sneaky, but not very well thought out. The punishment is justified, and more punishment to come I would think.

thegoth

On Planetf1.com Lewis is quoted as saying "I honestly acted as a team member. If the team have asked me to do something I have generally done it. I didn't have time to think about it, to think about what I was going to do."

Emmm, how about when the told asked you to let your lighter fueled teammate past in QUALIFYING in Hungry 2007. You seem to have ignored that request when it suit you !!!!

Its not my fault, blame Dave. You make me sick Haminton. Your full of sh*t and only out for yourself. Blaming another member of the team in public like this is discraceful. I'm sure alot of the McLaren team will be disappointed in him. What a team player he is.

Cookie_Monster

amacachi wrote: »

Not really, since Toyota dropped their appeal too, despite being in the right according to the latest verdict.

Surely Toyota dropped their appeal because they got the third place back and that was the end of thier involvement in the issue.

amacachi

thegoth wrote: »

On Planetf1.com Lewis is quoted as saying "I honestly acted as a team member. If the team have asked me to do something I have generally done it. I didn't have time to think about it, to think about what I was going to do."

Emmm, how about when the told asked you to let your lighter fueled teammate past in QUALIFYING in Hungry 2007. You seem to have ignored that request when it suit you !!!!

Its not my fault, blame Dave. You make me sick Haminton. Your full of sh*t and only out for yourself. Blaming another member of the team in public like this is discraceful. I'm sure alot of the McLaren team will be disappointed in him. What a team player he is.

Do you really think he just went and said that himself rather than having discussions with the team?

amacachi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Surely Toyota dropped their appeal because they got the third place back and that was the end of thier involvement in the issue.

They had already dropped the appeal.

vincenzolorenzo

Chopper888 wrote: »

Hamilton facing possible exclusion from the entire championship!!!

http://www.crash.net/Formula+One/News/144739/1/hamilton_facing_f1_world_championship_exclusion.html

Thats about as likely as Ian Paisley becoming pope in the morning! There isn't a hope in hell that Bernie would let F1 continue without lewis, current F1 champion and like it or not, one of the biggest draws all over the world!!! While he may deserve a race ban i doubt very much he'll get it

BoardsRanger

As much as i dislike Lewis, i think the exclusion from the OZ gp and a hefty fine for both team and driver would suffice. Gotta feel sorry for Vettel who was merely involved in a racing incident and recieves a 10 grid place penalty. This does nothing positive for the sport.

#Edit# Was just thinking, to make something good come from the whole Lewis situation- fine him and use the money to educate the stewards so that they know the difference between a racing incident and reckless driving.

vincenzolorenzo

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Gotta feel sorry for Vettel who was merely involved in a racing incident and recieves a 10 grid place penalty. This does nothing positive for the sport.

absolutely. It was a 50-50 racing incident really. He was fairly optimistic but he was alonside Kubica who could have left more room to avoid the collision as well. The FIA bring in the biggest rule changes in decades to try and promote overtaking and then as soon as someone tries it they get penalised. What is the point.....

Ping Chow Chi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Surely Toyota dropped their appeal because they got the third place back and that was the end of thier involvement in the issue.

no, they dropped it before all this came to light

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Gotta feel sorry for Vettel who was merely involved in a racing incident and recieves a 10 grid place penalty. This does nothing positive for the sport.

yeah I thought this at the time

thegoth

amacachi wrote: »

Do you really think he just went and said that himself rather than having discussions with the team?

I'm sure that he had discussions with the team about letting lower fueled team mates past in qualifying before Hungry 2007, but that didn't stop him doing what was best for No 1 did it ?

I think he and the team deserve at least a 1 and at most a 3 race ban. This is a very very serious issue. I would be saying the same thing regardless of the driver. The only thing is that I wish that he had a world championship winning car this year. That would make it all the sweater

Jor

My understanding, from all that happened last year, is that Toyota realised that Trullis alleged offence would have been punishable by a drive-through penalty, had it happened earlier in the race. As drive-throughs cannot be appealed, they dropped the matter.

As it turned out, all Trulli was gulity of was going off the track while under safety car conditions.

I have to say I am really annoyed with Hamilton and McLaren. I have defended them from many comments made on this forum, only for them to do something stupid like this. One of the last things I said after all the anti-Hamilton (not just Lewis, his family as well) stuff last season was that those who just hate Hamilton should go elsewhere and leave this forum for the reasonable discussion of F1. This episode will do nothing to help this at all.

amacachi

thegoth wrote: »

I'm sure that he had discussions with the team about letting lower fueled team mates past in qualifying before Hungry 2007, but that didn't stop him doing what was best for No 1 did it ?

Since McLaren have voluntarily suspended him I'm going to guess it was a set-up and Hamilton didn't act on his own.

thegoth

This Dave guy is a scape goat. I'm I sure that there is no way he would have done this unless there was a culture of rule breaking at McLaren.

I think the FIA will take care of Lewis being suspended though :-)

De Hipster

I thought I had LH 'issues' there is a LOT of venom directed at him on this forum.

While, I'm not a fan I have no malice towards the guy, he was programmed to lead, win and succeed.

Having said that it does not excuse that fact that he must take responsibility for his actions, but there is a lot of pushing and decision-making done in his life & on his behalf.

He is driven, talented, ambitious, arrogant, sometimes wreckless and the youngest WC F1 has ever seen.

Lets just put the handbags away, comment on facts & enjoy the fact that F1 is again a spectacle worth watching.

matty55

Did anyone else see the press conference with Lewis after the stewarts meeting? The lad was almost in tears!! Never thought Id see this kind of emotion from him! He always seemed so calm and collected in other difficult circumstances!

vectra

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

no, they dropped it before all this came to light

Exactly.
Toyota dropped their appeal as the had no idea at the time that Hamilton and McLaren were lying about the incident.
Common sence would tell you that.

De Hipster wrote: »

he was programmed to lead, win and succeed.

As far as I am aware, all F1 drivers fit that description.

De Hipster

vectra wrote: »

As far as I am aware, all F1 drivers fit that description.

McLaren signed Lewis & began moulding him from the age of nine.

Although the most may be driven, ambitious & spurred by zealous parents, not many were signed and mentored from such a young stage.

thegoth

De Hipster wrote: »

He is driven, talented, ambitious, arrogant, sometimes wreckless

Are you talking about Schumacher, Senna, Villenvue, Kimi or Alonso there, as that sentence descripes alot of world champions to me, not just Lewis.

I dont hold what he did against him, I hold the fact the he is buying into using this Dave guy as a scape goat against him

Does anyone think, for one second, that if this exact thing happened in to Michael Schmuacher with Ferrari, that they would have reacted in the same way ? Of course not. They would have stuck together as a team. NOONE would be mentioned by name at any interview. It would be something like "The team made some questionalbe decisions maybe, and we have been punished. We are looking forward to the rest of the weekend. Thank you"