Further action against Hamilton possible

amacachi

He did what others may have done in the same situation and he should be punished likewise.


My attitude to the incident has hardened over the last 24 hours. He has to be excluded from two races, I would've said this one and China, but I'd say it's too late for this weekend.

vectra

De Hipster wrote: »

McLaren signed Lewis & began moulding him from the age of nine.

Although the most may be driven, ambitious & spurred by zealous parents, not many were signed and mentored from such a young stage.

Most if all F1 drivers start at around the age of 6 or 7 driving Karts so it would be the same for all of them on the grid.
No excuses for him

thegoth

I agree, and its not becuase its Lewis. I think that anyone, weather a team or driver that does something like this deserves anywhere in the range of a 1-3 race ban.

What I think should happen is Lewis is banned for 1-3 races and the team cannot score points for the same amount of races, but Hekki is allowed run and score driver points

De Hipster

vectra wrote: »

Most if all F1 drivers start at around the age of 6 or 7 driving Karts so it would be the same for all of them on the grid.
No excuses for him

But not signed to one team for their entire racing education...

vectra

De Hipster wrote: »

But not signed to one team for their entire racing education...

that is irrelevant
They are racing for one reason
One Dream
to become the best

muckwarrior

De Hipster wrote: »

McLaren signed Lewis & began moulding him from the age of nine.

Interesting point. In a way I think Lewis is a personification of the McLaren team. Consistently worried about their public image and what people think of them and as a result, devoid of any soul.

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

Exactly.
Toyota dropped their appeal as the had no idea at the time that Hamilton and McLaren were lying about the incident.
Common sence would tell you that.

The actual incident was this:
Trulli lost control and went off the track - he got passed by Hamilton. This is a legitimate pass under safety car rules.
Trulli then re-took his place from Hamilton because, in his words, "Hamilton was going very slowly". This is NOT a legitimate pass under safety car rules - Hamilton had not crashed, lost control of the car, or gone off the track. Regardless of why Hamilton had slowed down, Trulli was not within the rules to take the place back under safety car conditions, and at the time had no idea that Hamilton had been instructed to let him past.
This is why he was initially removed from 3rd place.
He has subsequently been put back in 3rd to punish Hamilton - not because he was in the right.

I still think if the stewards were being consistent that Glock should be in third. McLaren have clearly found themselves a scapegoat here. Saying that, I do believe that Hamilton was following orders when he lied - otherwise he wouldn't have told the truth to the media when he got out of the car. Now he'll have to wait to see what other punishment comes down and learn that being a company man isn't always preferable to being an honest man.

As for Vettel, that's just an example of how bad the stewards were. They applied two correct punishments - a 10 place grid drop and a fine - but applied them to the wrong incidents. In times gone by the stewards would have been on the ball and black flagged him for driving with 3 wheels. Not this lot though.

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The actual incident was this:
Trulli lost control and went off the track - he got passed by Hamilton. This is a legitimate pass under safety car rules.
Trulli then re-took his place from Hamilton because, in his words, "Hamilton was going very slowly". This is NOT a legitimate pass under safety car rules - Hamilton had not crashed, lost control of the car, or gone off the track. Regardless of why Hamilton had slowed down, Trulli was not within the rules to take the place back under safety car conditions, and at the time had no idea that Hamilton had been instructed to let him past.
This is why he was initially removed from 3rd place.
He has subsequently been put back in 3rd to punish Hamilton - not because he was in the right.

Hamilton let Trulli back past, as he was instructed to do. He later claimed he didn't let him past and that Trulli just overtook him.

Slutmonkey57b

amacachi wrote: »

Hamilton let Trulli back past, as he was instructed to do. He later claimed he didn't let him past and that Trulli just overtook him.

Yes, but Trulli didn't know that at the time. At the time, he just saw an opportunity to take his place back and win some more points. He wasn't entitled to that place, but he took it anyway. Whatever Hamilton was doing at the time, or what orders he had from his team, Trulli couldn't have known.

So in terms of the race, Trulli was in the wrong.
In terms of behaviour after the race, Hamilton is in the wrong.
Both should be punished according to the rules.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Yes, but Trulli didn't know that at the time. At the time, he just saw an opportunity to take his place back and win some more points. He wasn't entitled to that place, but he took it anyway. Whatever Hamilton was doing at the time, or what orders he had from his team, Trulli couldn't have known.

So in terms of the race, Trulli was in the wrong.
In terms of behaviour after the race, Hamilton is in the wrong.
Both should be punished according to the rules.

Wrong again

Hamilton moved over to one side and slowed considerably which seemd like he was having a mechanical problem or something ( Trullis words ) therefore Trulli had no choice only to re-pass him.. making it a legal pass

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Yes, but Trulli didn't know that at the time. At the time, he just saw an opportunity to take his place back and win some more points. He wasn't entitled to that place, but he took it anyway. Whatever Hamilton was doing at the time, or what orders he had from his team, Trulli couldn't have known.

So if someone other than the leader slows right down to 10mph and moves off the racing line under the safety car everyone else behind him should stop?

Again, Hamilton's punishment isn't for overtaking under the safety car, it's for lying to try and get another driver punished and get personal gain.

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

Wrong again

Hamilton moved over to one side and slowed considerably which seemd like he was having a mechanical problem or something ( Trullis words ) therefore Trulli had no choice only to re-pass him.. making it a legal pass

"seemed like" and "is" are not the same thing. Trulli had no idea what Hamilton was doing - he assumed a certain situation that allowed him to justify taking the place back, that he wasn't entitled to.

amacachi wrote: »

So if someone other than the leader slows right down to 10mph and moves off the racing line under the safety car everyone else behind him should stop?

You are not allowed to overtake and gain advantage under the safety car, watch the start laps more often. Cars weave all over the circuit to keep heat in the tyres. Just because he has slowed down, or moved to a new line, you are not allowed to gain advantage by overtaking. If Trulli was "forced" to overtake due to another driver's slow driving, he has to give the place back. He didn't, and he was in the wrong.

Again, Hamilton's punishment isn't for overtaking under the safety car, it's for lying to try and get another driver punished and get personal gain.

Which was my point.

EvilMonkey

I'm pretty sure the safety car rules say you must keep pace with the trail of cars. Hamilton slowed way below the safety car pace and moved offline Trulli passed. This can be seen by Trulli's onboard camera and was said by Trulli.

I think McLaren are scapegoating this guy to avoid any further punishment for the team. Its kind of sad since he worked wit them for so long i hope he doesn't get the sack. I agree with thegoth i don't think any other F1 team would send someone to the slaughter, the would just say we ****ed up and take their punishment. What happened to win with the team loose with the team.

Chopper888

McLaren has been summoned to appear before the FIA's World Motor Sport Council on April 29 to answer charges that it has brought the sport into disrepute.
The team has been summoned on counts that it lied to stewards at the Australian Grand Prix during a hearing into Jarno Trulli overtaking Lewis Hamilton behind the safety car.

Slutmonkey57b

If there's any doubt that F1 is a cynical sport top to bottom, this should contradict it:

From the World Council actual Wording wrote:

Procured its driver, Hamilton to support and confirm this untrue statement to the stewards.

As far as the World Council is concerned, the TEAM lied and TOLD the driver to lie too.
Nice whitewash for all concerned, McLaren get the whipping, Dodge it by telling the WC that the guilty party has been removed, much regret all round, ratings-winning current champ not disqualified, Bernie happy.

Just like the spy scandal last year, the F1 heads will posture about as though nothing of the sort ever happened in the sport before, and the rest of the teams will go "rhubarb rhubarb you'd never catch us doing something like that rhubarb rhubarb" - catch being the operative term.

If the Ferrari boss takes over from Max when he finally retired you can expect the FIA's dealings with McLaren in particular and rival teams in general to get even more cynical.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

If the Ferrari boss takes over from Max when he finally retired you can expect the FIA's dealings with McLaren in particular and rival teams in general to get even more cynical.

Now you are being as blind as you were earlier when you were TRYING to persudae everyone that Trulli was WRONG when in fact he was 100% RIGHT

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

Now you are being as blind as you were earlier when you were TRYING to persudae everyone that Trulli was WRONG when in fact he was 100% RIGHT

Do you honestly believe that a Ferrari die-hard, who has lived and breathed the company all his life, will not stoop to any political machinations against Ferrari's rivals if he attains Mosley's position? The spy scandal is an obvious example - two teams were given the same information. McLaren actually shopped themselves to the FIA - Renault didn't. McLaren got ripped one side to the other in the investigation, Renault's word that the data loaded onto their computers was never used was taken at face value. What penalty did Renault get for stealing information from a rival team? Why? McLaren were rivals for the championship to Ferrari - unlike Renault. Ferrari already have a very unhealthy hold over the FIA and its decisions - from the abandonment of Turbocharging, to the "breaking the rules with illegal moving floors is ok if it's a red car", to the very suspect examples of "one rule for Ferrari, another rule for everyone else" from the stewards (think Raikkonen's shattered exhaust showering bits of burning hot metal all over the track for several laps without getting black flagged).

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

"breaking the rules with illegal moving floors is ok if it's a red car",

Do you honestly think that would be acceptable??
On the above.
That moving floor was done away with after Melbourne as it was deemed not within the rules.

Slutmonkey57b

Were they punished for it? Fined? Docked any points? Made to start in the pit lane? Nope, nope, nope, nope. Toyota, with a wing that flexed a little more than it should have in some conditions - pit lane start. Ferrari - running with a blatantly illegal driver-activated aero mod that made their cars significantly faster for several races: Nada.

McLaren found in possession of Ferrari data: Stripped of all constructers points, fined $100 million, made to pay Ferrari's costs, AND had to hand over full data on their 2008 car.

Renault found in possession of 2 years of McLaren blueprints, in vital years where Alonso won the World Championship, fined ... nothing. No action taken. No points docked. No sanctions for next season.

No, Ferrari have no influence over the FIA.

F1 is one of the most politically corrupt sports in the world and if you don't see that you're very very naieve.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Were they punished for it? Fined? Docked any points? Made to start in the pit lane? Nope, nope, nope, nope. Toyota, with a wing that flexed a little more than it should have in some conditions - pit lane start. Ferrari - running with a blatantly illegal driver-activated aero mod that made their cars significantly faster for several races: Nada.

McLaren found in possession of Ferrari data: Stripped of all constructers points, fined $100 million, made to pay Ferrari's costs, AND had to hand over full data on their 2008 car.

Renault found in possession of 2 years of McLaren blueprints, in vital years where Alonso won the World Championship, fined ... nothing. No action taken. No points docked. No sanctions for next season.

No, Ferrari have no influence over the FIA.

The Flexi floor was in their car BEFORE the rules were agreed to as the Diffuser issue is now in the same state.. Lets see if Brawn..Williams... Toyota will get strippes of any points with the outcome of these.

As for Renault and Mclaren issue..!!!
What does this have to do with Ferrari??

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

The Flexi floor was in their car BEFORE the rules were agreed to as the Diffuser issue is now in the same state.. Lets see if Brawn..Williams... Toyota will get strippes of any points with the outcome of these.

Wrong. The diffusers had been presented to the FIA and the FIA declared them legal before the start of the season. The moving floors were specifically designed to get around a specific bit of the rules, and not only that, were concealed in the car so as to not get noticed at paddock inspections. They were illegal from the start, Ferrari knew they were illegal, they put them on, and hid them. But - No punishment! At all! Amazing, eh?

http://www.formula1latest.com/2007/03/27/the-fia-nails-the-flexi-floor-problem/ wrote:

I can almost hear Charlie Whiting, the FIA’s head of the F1 technical department, spluttering as he wrote in his reply:

“Quite clearly, any such device would be designed to permit flexibility and is therefore strictly prohibited by Article 3.15 of the Technical Regulations.”

This from the same man who passed the Ferraris as perfectly legal at the Australian Grand Prix. It seems that McLaren know from experience that, to get a fair ruling from the FIA where Ferrari are concerned, you must suggest that you are going to do the same thing as the Italian team.

As for Renault and Mclaren issue..!!!
What does this have to do with Ferrari??

You're confused? How?

Team A is found with Team C's data. This is massively punished.
Team B is found with Team A's data. This is ignored.

Conclusion: Stealing data is only a crime if it's Team C's data. Either it's a breach of the regulations and deserves severe punishment, or not. One rule for all? Hardly. One rule for Team C, and the rest can get whatever's being dished out.

A cynic who follows the politics of F1 would suggest that teams are regularly robbing data from each other by whatever means they can, and that the reason Ferrari pushed for McLaren to be punished so hard, while Renault were not is simple:

McLaren got rid of the moving floors, and exposed Ferrari as cheats.

vectra

On McLaren’s protest against Ferrari’s flexi-floor

Ferrari only withdrew the floor device after it was confirmed to be illegal by the FIA. Were it not for Mr Stepney drawing this illegal device to the attention of McLaren, and McLaren drawing it to the attention of the FIA, there is every reason to suppose that Ferrari would have continued to race with an illegal car.

Dennis claimed that Nigel Stepney first contacted Mike Coughlan to alert him to the design of Ferrari’s floor at the Australian Grand Prix. Ferrari won the race using the ‘flexi-floor’, but after McLaren protested to the FIA the rules governing the floor were changed and Ferrari, and other teams, had to change their design.

McLaren defended Stepney, saying he acted “in the interests of the sport” by alerting them to the matter so that they could alert the FIA.

The claim that Ferrari cheated and got away with it is incendiary.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

You're confused? How?

Team A is found with Team C's data. This is massively punished.
Team B is found with Team A's data. This is ignored.

Conclusion: Stealing data is only a crime if it's Team C's data. Either it's a breach of the regulations and deserves severe punishment, or not. One rule for all? Hardly. One rule for Team C, and the rest can get whatever's being dished out.

A cynic who follows the politics of F1 would suggest that teams are regularly robbing data from each other by whatever means they can, and that the reason Ferrari pushed for McLaren to be punished so hard, while Renault were not is simple:

McLaren got rid of the moving floors, and exposed Ferrari as cheats.

So,
Why didnt McLaren Pursue the issue as Ferrari did to them?

vectra

It is possible McLaren will be banned from a number of races should the World Motor Sport Council take a dim view of the 'lie-gate' scandal at the April 29th meeting.

Bernie Ecclestone told the Express newspaper that the serious charge of lying to stewards and bringing the sport into disrepute is worsened by McLaren's recent trouble over espionage.

"It is never good for anyone if you are back in court quickly for something similar," the F1 Chief Executive said.

The FIA body has essentially unlimited powers: from race bans, total exclusion from the championship, to draconian financial penalties, like the $100m fine levied against McLaren in 2007 for spying.


Ecclestone admitted that McLaren figures lying to the stewards to have Jarno Trulli penalised amounted to 'fraud'.

"There are many options open if the charge sticks and it would be a terrible thing if any team were banned from races. But it could happen," he said.

In 2005, BAR Honda was banned for two races for fielding a trick fuel tank.

FIA statement:
"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been invited to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday, 29 April, 2009, to answer charges that, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, it

# on 29 March, 2009, told the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix that no instructions were given to Hamilton in Car No. 1 to allow Trulli in Car no. 9 to pass when both cars were behind the safety car, knowing this statement to be untrue;

# procured its driver Hamilton the current World Champion, to support and confirm this untrue statement to the stewards;

# although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;

# on 2 April, 2009, at a second hearing before the stewards of the Australian Grand Prix, (meeting in Malaysia) made no attempt to correct the untrue statement of 29 March but, on the contrary, continued to maintain that the statement was true, despite being allowed to listen to a recording of the team instructing Hamilton to let Trulli past and despite being given more than one opportunity to correct its false statement;

# on 2 April, 2009, at the second stewards' hearing, procured its driver Hamilton to continue to assert the truth of the false statement given to the stewards on 29 March, while knowing that what he was saying to the stewards was not true."

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

Were it not for Mr Stepney drawing this illegal device to the attention of McLaren, and McLaren drawing it to the attention of the FIA, there is every reason to suppose that Ferrari would have continued to race with an illegal car.

Wrong - the FIA received complaints from more than one team after the complicated floor mechanism was seen in the paddock garage.

The claim that Ferrari cheated and got away with it is incendiary.

Are you following your own quotes here?
I'll assume you're copypasting.
Did Ferrari cheat? Yes they did.
Did they get away with no punishment? Yes they did.

In 2005, BAR Honda was banned for two races for fielding a trick fuel tank.

Is this supposed to disprove my point that Ferrari don't get punished for cheating and have a disproportionate influence within the FIA?

So,
Why didnt McLaren Pursue the issue as Ferrari did to them?

Eh?
They did.
Renault were found guilty of the same thing McLaren were.
But they got no punishment.
How clear does it have to be?

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Wrong - the FIA received complaints from more than one team after the complicated floor mechanism was seen in the paddock garage.

Not wrong.
The device was 100% impossible to see from just looking at the car. This is what threw suspicions as to how exactly Mclaren discovered it.

Oh
By the way.
What I posted above were C/P
Not my words.

BoardsRanger

Not only has lewis been proved a liar, but now it appears he is also stupid...
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45532

Lewis Hamilton and former McLaren sporting director Dave Ryan continued to insist that Jarno Trulli had passed Hamilton of his own volition in Australia even when presented with evidence to the contrary during the second stewards' hearing at Sepang, it has emerged.

vectra

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Not only has lewis been proved a liar, but now it appears he is also stupid...
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45532

LOL
This part is really hilarious
Talk about numbskulls
and there are still members on this board that will stand behind Liar Hamilton

"First of all, Lewis heard the radio exchange," an FIA source told Autosport magazine.

"It appeared that the strategy was to be extremely vague and not be very direct with the answers.

"Then the interview where he said 'I was told to let him through' was played.

"At that point they both got very uncomfortable, but still denied that's what had actually happened.

Talk about a pair of Jackasses

riemann

I hope they don't ban him.

This season we are seeing just how overrated a driver he is and i'm loving every minute of it.

A ban would only further enhance the theory that f1 is racist and every one is against mclaren and lewis.

shamwari

Just to wrap up on this floating floor and Ferrari at the start of 2007, Ferrari were NOT found to be using something illegal. The FIA clarified the rules and altered the testing procedure to confirm that the cars floor conformed with the rules. There was never allegation made that Ferrari, BMW, and a few other teams were cheating. Ferrari's floor passed the test and was judged to be legal, and when the testing procedures were altered following a "clarification request" from McLaren, Ferrari modified its floor and again it passed these tests.

See http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58340 for more info on the FIA side of this

shamwari

Looking again at Autosport, (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74394) it seems they are going into overdrive to emphasise how remorseful Hamilton and co are. They are now reporting that Hamilton and Charlie Whiting from the FIA met up with Hamilton issuing an apology. Bearing in mind (in my opinion) that Autosport is about as pro-McLaren as you can get, there must be real worry in Woking that the WMSC is going to kick their arses. Hard.

vectra

I feel every British journalist and reporter along with the whole of the UK are in a state of panic over the "Little Hero" and are trying to show how sorry Loser Hamilton is to try get the WMSC to have pity on him and leave him alone.:pac:

Slutmonkey57b

shamwari wrote: »

Just to wrap up on this floating floor and Ferrari at the start of 2007, Ferrari were NOT found to be using something illegal. The FIA clarified the rules and altered the testing procedure to confirm that the cars floor conformed with the rules. There was never allegation made that Ferrari, BMW, and a few other teams were cheating. Ferrari's floor passed the test and was judged to be legal, and when the testing procedures were altered following a "clarification request" from McLaren, Ferrari modified its floor and again it passed these tests. See http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58340 for more info on the FIA side of this

Actually, the article is pretty clear that Ferrari only passed the tests AFTER the FIA modified the tests, and they modified the floor. So no, the floors they originally had installed were NOT legal. The floors that they modified were found to be legal - only after the FIA modified things so Ferrari could get away with it. Proving my initial point that Ferrari are not punished when they break the rules - in this case, the rules are bent to accommodate their cheating.

From the article, from Charlie Whiting who is the judge of the rules: (my emphasis)

"Following detailed examination of the cars during the Malaysian and Bahrain Grands Prix it has become evident that some teams are attempting to gain an aerodynamic advantage by designing bodywork which is flexible and/or not flat.

"Explanations for this seem to centre around the need to ensure the front of the chassis or reference plane isn't badly damaged when it makes contact with the ground, however, whilst we acknowledge these arguments may have some validity, such designs quite clearly contravene Article 3.15 of the 2007 F1 Technical Regulations."

vectra wrote: »

I feel every British journalist and reporter along with the whole of the UK are in a state of panic over the "Little Hero" and are trying to show how sorry Loser Hamilton is to try get the WMSC to have pity on him and leave him alone.:pac:

This sort of gibberish has me very tempted to put you on the Ignore list - only the second user in the 10 years I've been using boards...
Yeah, clearly "everyone" in the UK is in tears over what will happen to Hamilton...

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

This sort of gibberish has me very tempted to put you on the Ignore list - only the second user in the 10 years I've been using boards...
Yeah, clearly "everyone" in the UK is in tears over what will happen to Hamilton...

Listen
I have Zero respect for him
Like it or dont.
It is up to you to decide what you want.
me
I cannot stand him and never will.. especially after this.

Be reasonable about it.
If this guy so called ambasador of F1 shows no respect for his team...Other teams.. Stewards.. FIA... How can he expect anyone else to respect him?
Do I appear to be worried if youput me on your ignore list?
Not a chance

shamwari

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Actually, the article is pretty clear that Ferrari only passed the tests AFTER the FIA modified the tests, and they modified the floor. So no, the floors they originally had installed were NOT legal. The floors that they modified were found to be legal - only after the FIA modified things so Ferrari could get away with it. Proving my initial point that Ferrari are not punished when they break the rules - in this case, the rules are bent to accommodate their cheating.

From the article, from Charlie Whiting who is the judge of the rules: (my emphasis)

"Following detailed examination of the cars during the Malaysian and Bahrain Grands Prix it has become evident that some teams are attempting to gain an aerodynamic advantage by designing bodywork which is flexible and/or not flat.

"Explanations for this seem to centre around the need to ensure the front of the chassis or reference plane isn't badly damaged when it makes contact with the ground, however, whilst we acknowledge these arguments may have some validity, such designs quite clearly contravene Article 3.15 of the 2007 F1 Technical Regulations."


This sort of gibberish has me very tempted to put you on the Ignore list - only the second user in the 10 years I've been using boards...
Yeah, clearly "everyone" in the UK is in tears over what will happen to Hamilton...

There was never any acquisation made that the floor used by Ferrari was illegal. Sure the world and its mother knew that the floor would pass the test and behave in a fashion that conferred additional advantage ontrack that was outside the spirit of the rules. Again I have to restate, Ferrari and all of the other teams who used this and similar devices were never accused of cheating, nor did they face punishment or sanction.

As for Hamilton, I couldn't care less if he is sanctioned or not. He isn't my favourite driver either, but then again in this case, he is the architect of his own misfortune.

vectra

The FIA is investigating what role team boss Martin Whitmarsh played in the 'lie-gate' scandal..............

More here >>> FIA requests BBC interview over 'lie-gate'

Slutmonkey57b

vectra wrote: »

Listen
I have Zero respect for him
Like it or dont.
It is up to you to decide what you want.
me
I cannot stand him and never will.. especially after this.

Nobody's asking you to like Hamilton. Just

Be reasonable about it.

and not spend all your time spouting hyperbolic, incorrect vitriol about him all day every day.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

and not spend all your time spouting incorrect vitriol about him all day every day.

What have I said about him that was incorrect??

Ping Chow Chi

maybe we could have a 'i hate hamilton' sub forum?

vectra

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

maybe we could have a 'i hate hamilton' sub forum?

It would probably take up too much room

On another note
if the diffusers are deemed illegal, does that mean Hamilton will get his points back for Australia because Trulli wouldn't have been there to get him in trouble

wellyhead

Dcully wrote: »

I cant believe some people thinking this lying and cheating only deserves penalties like starting next race from pits or similar.
It was a blatant insult and mockery of the rules.
I think he and the team deserve to be banned from 2-3 races at the very least.

I think inter team gamesmanship like what went on in MacLaren goes on in every team. The only difference is that most drivers would not be so spineless as Hamilton as to blame someone else for their own error. This is his third year in the sport so he should have the capacity to know the difference between right and wrong. What a selfish act to come out and instantly end Dave Ryans 35 Year long career by saying " He told me to do it" just to protect his own reputation. I watched Michael schumacher for 15 years and I never heard him utter a negative word about one of his engineers. And you can be sure controversial decisions were discudssed over the radio. You see, it was all about collective responsibility with schumacher and his team, Hamilton is showing very base level immaturity by acting so selfishly to try and attain an image as the consumate flawless professional but it is having the opposite effect and he is being shown up for what he really is.. a spoiled, selfish child.

enzo7

totally agree!! if schumacher was anything he was a team player, everything was "we" with him. if hamilton hadnt blamed dave ryan i think we would have all got over it faster.

it will be intresting to see what will come out about martin whitmarshs involvment in liegate, cant believe he didnt know what was going on. still cant believe they made him team principal if im not mistakeing wasnt he the senior team member in the middle of spygate??

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

if hamilton hadnt blamed dave ryan i think we would have all got over it faster.

Nope
He still openly insulted and embarressed another driver and team with no hesitation whatsoever
he is like a rat on a sinking ship

enzo7

ya there was dat too ur right, it was the dave ryan thing dat really annoyed me ,more than the original "lie" but i do think he will find it very hard to recover from this since he wasnt exactly the most popular driver b4 it.

riemann

Can I just say I am loving the direction this thread has taken.

I took an immediate dislike to hamilton as soon as I seen his beady eyes at the start of 2007.

You guys are all great.

Also I have seen some hilarious comments on UK based blogs defending him, quality stuff.

http://lewisf1.blogspot.com/2009/04/lie-gate-or-lewis-bashing.html