Metro North Oral Hearing

Metrobest

markpb wrote: »

Hardly surprising though... IE (Dart) and RPA (Luas) already have different models, there's no reason to think they'd change that when the two new routes open. We'll be lucky if they speak to each other about operating hours, etc.

You'd have to hope by 2015 Irish Rail will be running the DARTs and CIE the buses until 00.30am, like luas, but who knows.....

Will Irish Rail and Dublin Bus still exist then in their current form? Let's hope not!

Metrobest

murphaph wrote: »

Exactly! We just need to get the core in place so people can see that mass rapid transit IS possible in Dublin!

...And is is possible. The success of Luas has shown that Dubliners don't want to use their cars, they will gladly switch modes as soon as they are given a halfway decent (ie. not bus-based) alternative.

Philip Treacy will have to make a special-edition "metro north" hat, to be eaten by Frank McDonald and his fellow critics sometime around 2015!

godtabh

Metrobest wrote: »

It won't be a major issue thanks to smart card we'll all be using by then.

the rate at which this is been integrated it should be ready for use in 20 years. Probably 10 years before MN is up and running

Victor

MICKEYG wrote: »

Seems that in Stephens Green you will need to go through barriers to connect from Metro North to the interconnector. Maybe I am mistaken but if not that is annoying.

There will be a platform to platform connection.

VanBosch

Does anyone know what the next step after these oral hearings is? How long is it likely before planning permission is granted/refused?

If it is approved is the next step the announcement of the winning tender?

If all goes to plan when is construction expected to start?

gjim

dowlingm wrote: »

The distance between Lissenhall and Donabate is only 2-3km so we're only talking about development east of Donabate. The green belt can only be impacted if the County Council allows it and/or fails to ensure they defend ABP appeals viciously. We can't have joined up public transport as it would endanger the environment - jesus mary and joseph...

I don't get this either. I realise that the RPA seemingly have to be beaten into providing connections to commuter rail lines - the Drumcondra stop wasn't on any of the originally proposed routes I seem to recall. However, the existing northern line is packed; allowing a switch to metro at Donabate surely would have increased projected metro passenger numbers. It's a badly missed opportunity to significantly increase the overall utility of the transport system and I'm surprised more fuss wasn't made of it.

ihatewallies

denizens living north of Malahide should not be allowed on MN until they adjust to modern civilisation

Victor

http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/metro_airport_swords/build_and_operation_permission/Pages/MetroNorthRailwayOrderOralHearingEvidence.aspx

Metro North Railway Order Oral Hearing

On Wednesday 22nd April 2009, An Bord Pleanála's Inspector announced that he will temporarily adjourn the Metro North Oral Hearing after the completion of Module 1 (RPA’s evidence), to allow the Inspector and his technical advisors and other observers consider RPA's evidence and the supporting data provided by RPA in response to questions from the Inspector and his technical advisors. The adjournment is expected to be for a period of approximately 4 weeks.

Stupido

3D video flyby of the stations. Go to

http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/metro_airport_swords/build_and_operation_permission/Pages/MetroNorthRailwayOrderOralHearingEvidence.aspx

then click on

Metro North Oral Hearing 3D Simulation Overview of Scheme Rory O'Connor 010409

It gives an impression of the stations.

whosedaddy?

Stupido wrote: »

3D video flyby of the stations. Go to

http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/metro_airport_swords/build_and_operation_permission/Pages/MetroNorthRailwayOrderOralHearingEvidence.aspx

then click on

Metro North Oral Hearing 3D Simulation Overview of Scheme Rory O'Connor 010409

It gives an impression of the stations.

Nice.. i know its artist impression, but a lot of much glass that can be broken and spray-painted by vandals...

crocro

VanBosch wrote: »

Does anyone know what the next step after these oral hearings is? How long is it likely before planning permission is granted/refused?

If it is approved is the next step the announcement of the winning tender?

If all goes to plan when is construction expected to start?

In theory, the plan is this...

Railway order approval: 2009
Second stage of tendering, following railway order, starts in 2009.
Contract awarded: 2010
Construction starts 2010
Completion: 2013

Everyone would be surprised if the project completes by 2013.
Most people will be surprised if a contract is awarded in 2010.

If no contract is awarded, this will look bad for Ireland as the bidders will have spent millions for no reward. It will discourage serious players from competing for future projects in Ireland. There is a possibility of the state compensating bidders in this case.

If a contract is awarded then the project will likely complete unless the bidding consortium goes bust or the state defaults on its payments.

godtabh

crocro wrote: »

If no contract is awarded, this will look bad for Ireland as the bidders will have spent millions for no reward. It will discourage serious players from competing for future projects in Ireland. There is a possibility of the state compensating bidders in this case.

The last 4 bidders were paid to carry out their tenders I thought?

crocro

kearnsr wrote: »

The last 4 bidders were paid to carry out their tenders I thought?

Frank Allen said that the preferred bidders had spent €10m a piece on their proposals.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0302/1224242083966.html

ihatewallies

are 'people' always like this or is it just MN that seems to be plagued by myths and misinformation re just about everything?

the consortia had to pay for their own tenders. total cost for 4 tenders close to 50 million Euros.

Planning is expected to be through the system by around Nov which should also be the time the preferred bidder is selected.

construction could start in early 2010.

where did the 2013 completion date come from?

if it starts in early 2010 construction will be completed around the end of 2015.

crocro

ihatewallies wrote: »

where did the 2013 completion date come from?

The government:
http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Metro_-_Luas/Metro_North.html
The minister for transport http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10717&lang=ENG&loc=2262
The RPA http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Railway%20Orders/Metro%20North/Metro%20North%20EIS%20Vol%203%20Bk%202/EIS%20Metro%20North%20Volume%203%20Book%202%20of%202%20(Annex%20I%20Part1).pdf

ihatewallies

crocro wrote: »

The government:
http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Metro_-_Luas/Metro_North.html
The minister for transport http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10717&lang=ENG&loc=2262
The RPA http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Railway%20Orders/Metro%20North/Metro%20North%20EIS%20Vol%203%20Bk%202/EIS%20Metro%20North%20Volume%203%20Book%202%20of%202%20(Annex%20I%20Part1).pdf

if you looked more closely at that stuff you'd see it's years old and was predicated on MN construction starting around 2008

crocro

ihatewallies wrote: »

if you looked more closely at that stuff you'd see it's years old and was predicated on MN construction starting around 2008

In fact all of these documents are less than a year old.

The transport 21 prediction of 2013 was last updated on 6/april/09 - 3 weeks ago.
The transport minister's prediction of 2013 is from a parliamentary question 10 months ago.
The RPA prediction of 2013 is from an EIS published 8 months ago.

Few expect to see metro north in 2013 but this is still the officially predicted date.

The original date given for completion of metro north in transport 21 was 2012 as seen in the november 2005 press release on transport 21:
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7048-4.pdf

Carawaystick

Metrobest wrote: »

You'd have to hope by 2015 Irish Rail will be running the DARTs and CIE the buses until 00.30am, like luas, but who knows.....

Bus Éireann already run a 24 hour on the hour service to Belfast,
Last passenger train leaving Drogheda is at 18 mins past midnight.

ihatewallies

crocro wrote: »

In fact all of these documents are less than a year old.

The transport 21 prediction of 2013 was last updated on 6/april/09 - 3 weeks ago.
The transport minister's prediction of 2013 is from a parliamentary question 10 months ago.
The RPA prediction of 2013 is from an EIS published 8 months ago.

Few expect to see metro north in 2013 but this is still the officially predicted date.

The original date given for completion of metro north in transport 21 was 2012 as seen in the november 2005 press release on transport 21:
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7048-4.pdf

wasn't fully updated. you're very trusting of gov documents.

VanBosch

It's now almost 2 months since the last day or the Oral Hearing.Does anyone have any idea on when a decision is likely to be reached? If a railway order is granted when should construction start?

ad hoc

That wasn't the last day of hearings - they've just been adjourned so that ABP and third parties can process the documentation presented by the RPA, (the applicant). Once this has been done, the hearings will resume at which point third parties will make presentations.

G_R

anyone have any idea when??

Victor

"NOT soon" was the unofficial word I got.

VanBosch

I appreciate your response was "unofficial" but did you get any feeling that it was:"Not Soon" as we have a lot of research etc to do or"Not Soon" as in lets not proceed as we have no money!

Sponge Bob

VanBosch wrote: »

I appreciate your response was "unofficial" but did you get any feeling that it was:"Not Soon" as we have a lot of research etc to do or"Not Soon" as in lets not proceed as we have no money!

Both. The RPA has already been 'abolished' and this is the only jobbie that justifies it existing at all.

Giving a dead quango a 3 year job inevitably means that the dead quango will drag it out for 13 years if possible.

The fact that the intended 'live quango' is not yet actually live means that MN is now controlled by Zombies and a Larval rather than a Pupating Homunculous .

Only in Ireland

Slice

So which completion date are we supposed to go by given that there's been so many for Metro North over the course of the planning stage so far? And which one are we meant use to determine whether or not it's been completed on time?

It's easy to claim a project like this is on time when they continually revise the completion date, is it not?

Metrobest

The only quango that needs to be abolished here is An Bord Pleneala. It is needlessly delaying Metro North's progress with this oral hearing, which apparantly is being conducted "at the Board's discretion" (ie. it's not neccessary).

One arm of the state delaying a mission-critical piece of national infrastructure while the citizens of north Dublin remain trapped to their cars.

An Bord Pleneala should hang its head in shame.

Victor

Metrobest wrote: »

The only quango that needs to be abolished here is An Bord Pleneala. It is needlessly delaying Metro North's progress with this oral hearing, which apparantly is being conducted "at the Board's discretion" (ie. it's not neccessary).

Well, in fairness the application is 3,000 pages and 300 drawings. Then the RPA added all this additional information at the oral hearing:

http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/metro_airport_swords/build_and_operation_permission/Pages/MetroNorthRailwayOrderOralHearingEvidence.aspx

While you might not feel an oral hearing is necessary, if it wan't held, people would just drag it through the courts.