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Boards platform for radical opinions, a future consideration?

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    #92
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    DeVore wrote: »
    We havent gotten past the "let the Moderators decide" option then? Because I dont think we can come up with a litmus test for when something is racist or not... or can we?

    DeV.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I see a problem with A. Jaysus, of all countries Ireland should know the damage stigmas do. I think that can be relatively easily decided on. Even if over over 50% of somebody does this, does not mean they all do, so that should avoid it.

    Having said that, we all stereotype, but as long as we know they are stereotypes and cop on, I see no major problem in that. AH is full of stereotypes and generalisations and that's part of the fun of it. Half the jokes wouldn't work without it.



    Point 2 is harder and is more down to feelings and is more subjective.
    DeVore wrote: »
    If you were me, what would you decide?

    DeV.

    I suppose let the mods decides and every so often have a thread like this on it!

    I've no major grumble with the "you're a racist" generalisations at the moment because you get plenty "you pc, liberal, student type" responses in the same thread.

    It's funny, many see Boards as the home of racist, "they ate our swans" type and many others see it as a "pinko, liberal" haven.

    Maybe that's the right balance?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #93
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #94
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    DeVore wrote: »
    If you were me, what would you decide?

    DeV.

    The thing is ...you can't have a rational discussion with radically minded people. The essence of radicalism (of any couleur) is the stubborn belief that one's opinion is the only correct one, that the rest of the masses are poor, misguided souls and that one has to shout and drown them out, as the "message" is just sooo important that everyone has to be made aware of it.

    It is pointless to try and provide a dedicated platform to debate radical ideas. These debates never go anywhere.

    Some things simply are wrong and unaccaptable these days and the broad mass knows this (even if they don't buy fully into it as the case may be)

    I think boards as it is works pretty well in keeping this largely undefined standard of "wrong and right". To put up a definition, to legislate that it's ok to say this but not that would only provide wriggle room for the more radical elements to try and erode the boundaries.

    Leave as is, let the mods decide, provide no clear boundaries. So, the odd thread may go over and beyond of what's acceptable, others will be shot down prematurely ...but so what ...on the bottom line I think we have the right mixture.


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    #95
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    DeVore wrote: »
    We havent gotten past the "let the Moderators decide" option then? Because I dont think we can come up with a litmus test for when something is racist or not... or can we?

    DeV.
    What's racist to one person is not racist to another.
    You have to allow a certain amount of leeway for ignorance.

    A while back we had that thing where a guy on AH used what I felt was a racist term against Pakistanis. I can't remember the word now.

    Anyway, I banned him and we did the whole feedback thing and the ban remained.
    On reflection I may have been a bit harsh in my decision.
    The guy may have just been ignorant of the fact that the word he used was a racist term and a warning may have sufficed.

    It may have skewed the thread a bit, but if it was to teach someone that some words are not acceptable in a civilised society, then it would have been worth it.

    Modding is a continual learning process. There are only a certain amount of things that are clear cut in the moderating process and the rest is done on the fly.
    Which leads me to this:

    DeVore wrote: »
    If you were me, what would you decide?

    DeV.

    Decision on a post by post basis.


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    #96
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Sambo is a racist word apparently.


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    #97
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    I've object vociferously against the word "Paddy" on one occasion, but I use it myself on sometimes. The context makes the difference.

    DeV.


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    #98
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    Sambo is a racist word apparently.
    Not in Ireland.
    I can just picture it now though.

    50 year old Dub builder goes to the canteen on a large site for his 10am break and orders a tuna sambo from a black person.
    All of a sudden he's in HR being told by some spotty student that he's racist and is now going to have to be re-educated.

    DeVore wrote: »
    I've object vociferously against the word "Paddy" on one occasion, but I use it myself on sometimes. The context makes the difference.

    DeV.
    That's where I was going with the post by post basis thing, but I'm not quite as verbose as you.
    Context plays a huge part.

    Did anyone see the daily show the other night?
    Jon Stewart was talking to some guy about how his kids can't call the 17th Paddy's day. It's now known as potato day.
    I'll try to find a link later. If not, I'll upload one myself. I'm not at home right now.


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    #99
    Jack B. Badd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,294 ✭✭✭Jack B. Badd


    Terry wrote: »
    Did anyone see the daily show the other night?
    Jon Stewart was talking to some guy about how his kids can't call the 17th Paddy's day. It's now known as potato day.
    I'll try to find a link later. If not, I'll upload one myself. I'm not at home right now.

    Naive little me, I assumed Paddy was used in the context of the name (i.e. short for Patrick) as opposed to the pejorative for Irish people and therefore openly referred to the holiday as Paddy's Day. Conversely, I find Potato Day to be offensive given the "under-the-heel, spud-eater" stereotype it alludes to...
    Context is the key issue really. There's no black-and-white when it comes to offence.


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    #100
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    I'd object to someone calling me a paddy, mick, leprachaun, potatoe, spud or anything else of that ilk if it was in an aggresive context.

    I don't know if racial harassment or xenophobia against Irish people gets taken serious though.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/7701863.stm


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    #101
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    I'd object to someone calling me a paddy, mick, leprachaun, potatoe, spud or anything else of that ilk if it was in an aggresive context.

    I don't know if racial harassment or xenophobia against Irish people gets taken serious though.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/7701863.stm
    Going by my own personal experience (and only my own and I'm not making a generalisation here), English people seem to see us as the same as them.

    They see no difference between Irish and English people. I'm talking about the average English person and not the BNP ****wits.
    I see a differnce, but that's my personal feeling on the matter.
    I'm specifically saying English people and not Scots or Welsh. Our Celtic (hard C) cousins see things differently.

    I'm going to try to sort out that Daily Show clip now.
    Back in either 2 minutes or an hour. Depending on whether it is already on-line or not.


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    #102
    Jack B. Badd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,294 ✭✭✭Jack B. Badd


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    I don't know if racial harassment or xenophobia against Irish people gets taken serious though.

    Which is interesting since historical racism against the Irish has been within the same order of magnitude as that against Blacks.

    Interestingly, the last BNP flier I got through my door featured an alleged Irish woman wittering on about "how they only say what we're all thinking". We're now in the fold apparently :rolleyes:


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    #103
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=223862&title=baracknophobia-obey

    Watch from the start for context. The potato thing is about a minute in. It's quite funny.


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    #104
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Jack B. Badd wrote: »
    Which is interesting since historical racism against the Irish has been within the same order of magnitude as that against Blacks.

    Interestingly, the last BNP flier I got through my door featured an alleged Irish woman wittering on about "how they only say what we're all thinking". We're now in the fold apparently :rolleyes:
    Did you not know that?
    https://excalibur.bnp.org.uk/acatalog/Irish_Folk.html


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    #105
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    DeVore wrote: »
    I've object vociferously against the word "Paddy" on one occasion, but I use it myself on sometimes. The context makes the difference.

    DeV.

    But I'd use the Paddy term to be ironic.

    Sure all us Paddies are drunken, brawling, terrorist layabouts?

    PS. I love the quote in my sig from Blazing Saddles.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #106
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Terry wrote: »
    Going by my own personal experience (and only my own and I'm not making a generalisation here), English people seem to see us as the same as them.

    They see no difference between Irish and English people. I'm talking about the average English person and not the BNP ****wits.
    I see a differnce, but that's my personal feeling on the matter.
    I'm specifically saying English people and not Scots or Welsh. Our Celtic (hard C) cousins see things differently.

    I'm going to try to sort out that Daily Show clip now.
    Back in either 2 minutes or an hour. Depending on whether it is already on-line or not.

    I've been in England a few times and never had anything said to me. I don't know about "them" seeing "us" as one in the same but they see the whole of Ireland as the same. Someone might ask me "oh where in Ireland are you from?" I'd say Dublin. Then they'd say "Oh yeah, I was in Belfast once, lovely place". One woman in Tesco was telling me her husband's from Derry like.

    I've also heard the term "southern Ireland" which is an odd one.

    I'm not sure how many English people are aware of the differences between there and here in ROI. I once shocked a girl by telling her we've no ASDA - her mate said ":eek: But where do they shop ?"

    Jack B. Badd wrote: »
    Which is interesting since historical racism against the Irish has been within the same order of magnitude as that against Blacks.

    Interestingly, the last BNP flier I got through my door featured an alleged Irish woman wittering on about "how they only say what we're all thinking". We're now in the fold apparently :rolleyes:


    I think some of the tourism advertising and products marketed to tourists (the like that you see in Carrolls etc.) has kind of damaged our claims to being discriminated against through racism.


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    #107
    Jack B. Badd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,294 ✭✭✭Jack B. Badd


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    I think some of the tourism advertising and products marketed to tourists (the like that you see in Carrolls etc.) has kind of damaged our claims to being discriminated against through racism.

    The level of racism towards us in the past few decades has significantly diminished too. You no longer find "No Irish" signs around the place any more. You don't find "No Blacks" signs around either but it's much easier to discriminate on the basis of skin colour than nationality - you have to interact with someone to determine whether or not they are Irish while skin colour is immediately apparent at a distance...


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    #108
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    DeVore wrote: »
    We havent gotten past the "let the Moderators decide" option then? Because I dont think we can come up with a litmus test for when something is racist or not... or can we?

    DeV.

    Some things are clearly not acceptable, but there will always be marginal cases which require individual decision making.
    DeVore wrote: »
    If you were me, what would you decide?

    DeV.

    We're talking about AH right? Let the fools be foolish I say, so long as its not in my back yard. These AH people are not to be trusted, they are lazy, ignorant and dirty. If they want to go around doing depraved stuff like racism let them, so long as it doesn't leak into the real fora on boards.


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    #109
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Jack B. Badd wrote: »
    The level of racism towards us in the past few decades has significantly diminished too. You no longer find "No Irish" signs around the place any more.

    At the same time, people are no longer giving out about self deprecating Irish people, and I'm kinda glad that we can go back to hating each other without being told "This country has a highly educated workforce and is at the cutting edge of high tech industry" etc etc.


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