Any news from the FCP today?

chem

What it says on the tin:D anyone here attend or hear anything

bunny shooter

So much info hard to take it all in

Nearly 4pm and still no news

Aw come on lads the suspense is killing me

sikasmicke

bunny shooter wrote: »

So much info hard to take it all in

Nearly 4pm and still no news

Aw come on lads the suspense is killing me

You are not hearing anything because there is nothing to tell, the Misc Bill will be published on Tuesday, the FCP do not know what is in it! Some consultation!

chem

sikasmicke wrote: »

You are not hearing anything because there is nothing to tell, the Misc Bill will be published on Tuesday, the FCP do not know what is in it! Some consultation!

Yea the goverment showed its true colours, on this one alright:mad: Whats that saying, about an animal and spots?

IRLConor

sikasmicke wrote: »

You are not hearing anything because there is nothing to tell, the Misc Bill will be published on Tuesday, the FCP do not know what is in it! Some consultation!

chem wrote: »

Yea the goverment showed its true colours, on this one alright:mad: Whats that saying, about an animal and spots?

Apparently the DoJ may not show the bill to the FCP before it goes to the Dail, it's a matter of parliamentary procedure or some such. I'm pretty sure all members of the FCP have a good idea of what the broad strokes of what the bill contains. The devil will probably be in the details though.

chem

Still be nice to know, what the broad strokes were:rolleyes: The government can say what they like. And blame who they like but it just makes people lose trust in them.

sikasmicke

IRLConor wrote: »

Apparently the DoJ may not show the bill to the FCP before it goes to the Dail, it's a matter of parliamentary procedure or some such. I'm pretty sure all members of the FCP have a good idea of what the broad strokes of what the bill contains. The devil will probably be in the details though.

Why do they not tell us so! who is represented on the FCP, if you are a memebr of the FCP reps assocatiation why is there no infomation.

What has the NARGC, the SSAI, the NTSA got to say to its members. Nothing do you feel well represented!

It is not a matter of parliamentary procedure, consultatoin is the basis of good legislation.

What happens if they ban a 6" knife, what does that do for our deer stalkers?

IRLConor

chem wrote: »

Still be nice to know, what the broad strokes were:rolleyes:

Well, I don't know any more than you do, but expect a ban on a whole rake of pistols would be my guess. Which ones get banned and which ones don't are the details that the FCP may or may not know. Even if they do know they may have been sworn to secrecy on them.

Either way, I'm not happy about the lack of information that comes out of the shooting bodies at the FCP. Even if they said "we know stuff but we can't tell you" it would be a help. Leaving things open to speculation will only lead to strife.

IRLConor

sikasmicke wrote: »

What has the NARGC, the SSAI, the NTSA got to say to its members. Nothing do you feel well represented!

Well, since I'm not willing to get involved in the NTSA* (who would be the only logical ones for me to get involved in) there's only so much I can give out to them for. I'm pretty sure they're representing my interests, but I'd like to see some interim progress reports rather than see it all at the end.

* Mainly because life's too short to deal with the political silliness they get dragged into.

chem

Its the Irish way Lads:rolleyes: Has anyone got any balls in government? Stand up and tell the truth for once!

What about putting forward our own reps for election to run against some of these parties? Lets face it lads, Jobs are few and now the government want to take more away by closing gun shops and ranges. If there are no markets there are no jobs:rolleyes:

jwshooter

practical pistol shooting is to be banned , every thing over 308 is restricted .no more licensing of pistols over .22 and big restrictions on that also .reloading is not going to happen.

pretty much what we have been reading.

sikasmicke

jwshooter wrote: »

practical pistol shooting is to be banned , every thing over 308 is restricted .no more licensing of pistols over .22 and big restrictions on that also .reloading is not going to happen.

pretty much what we have been reading.

Where have you got your information from? is it that you are on the FCP, know someone the FCP or just speculation.

Would be nice if the people who claim to represtent the sport would inform their menbers of the situation!!!!

Rovi

The actual content of the firearms legislation parts of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 are known to very few people, and they're not revealing anything until it's officially published in the Dáil next Tuesday (as we're led to believe).

At that point, we'll all know what's in it.

As a Bill, it must then make its way through the houses of the Oireachtas, where it will be debated and challenged and defended by the Government and the Opposition; it is during this process that we members of the shooting community must make our views known to our elected representatives.

Bills can and do get radically amended and even dropped altogether, so anything that's in it is certainly not set in stone.

Only when the Bill passes a majority vote in the Dáil, will it become an Act, and even then, it (or the component parts of it) doesn't become law until it's Enacted.


It is up to us (the shooting community) to lobby and persuade our representatives (both in the Government and the Opposition) as to the legitimacy of our arguments and points.
This MUST be done in a sensible and responsible manner; some of the vitriol that has been aimed at individual politicians has been little short of embarrassing, and has merely served to diminish the stock of the shooting community as a whole in the eyes of the very people we wish to influence.

There's been a LOT of legislation down the years that hasn't made it all the way through this process, so no matter what's in the Bill when we do finally get to see it, it's by no means a fait accompli.

The sky ISN'T falling, not quite yet anyhow.

foxshooter243

Rovi wrote: »

The actual content of the firearms legislation parts of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 are known to very few people, and they're not revealing anything until it's officially published in the Dáil next Tuesday (as we're led to believe).

At that point, we'll all know what's in it.

As a Bill, it must then make its way through the houses of the Oireachtas, where it will be debated and challenged and defended by the Government and the Opposition; it is during this process that we members of the shooting community must make our views known to our elected representatives.

Bills can and do get radically amended and even dropped altogether, so anything that's in it is certainly not set in stone.

Only when the Bill passes a majority vote in the Dáil, will it become an Act, and even then, it (or the component parts of it) doesn't become law until it's Enacted.


It is up to us (the shooting community) to lobby and persuade our representatives (both in the Government and the Opposition) as to the legitimacy of our arguments and points.
This MUST be done in a sensible and responsible manner; some of the vitriol that has been aimed at individual politicians has been little short of embarrassing, and has merely served to diminish the stock of the shooting community as a whole in the eyes of the very people we wish to influence.

There's been a LOT of legislation down the years that hasn't made it all the way through this process, so no matter what's in the Bill when we do finally get to see it, it's by no means a fait accompli.

The sky ISN'T falling, not quite yet anyhow.

If the FCP had a time machine, they would be fighting for the scraps from
Longshanks table

Sparks

If the FCP had a time machine, they'd be sitting at the table with Longshanks sitting in the chairman's position. Given that the chair of the FCP is the DoJ.

This is the bit I think people don't quite get - the FCP consists of all stakeholders in the Firearms acts, not just the shooting groups. The DoJ, the Gardai, the Sports Council, they're all on there as members as well.

jwshooter

sikasmicke wrote: »

Where have you got your information from? is it that you are on the FCP, know someone the FCP or just speculation.

Would be nice if the people who claim to represtent the sport would inform their menbers of the situation!!!!

know some one on it .

bunny shooter

sikasmicke wrote: »

You are not hearing anything because there is nothing to tell, the Misc Bill will be published on Tuesday, the FCP do not know what is in it! Some consultation!

Even the fact it is to be published on Tuesday is news to some of us :mad:

chem

bunny shooter wrote: »

Even the fact it is to be published on Tuesday is news to some of us :mad:

Id even put money on it, that the indo will have the story monday!:rolleyes:

sikasmicke

Sparks wrote: »

If the FCP had a time machine, they'd be sitting at the table with Longshanks sitting in the chairman's position. Given that the chair of the FCP is the DoJ.

This is the bit I think people don't quite get - the FCP consists of all stakeholders in the Firearms acts, not just the shooting groups. The DoJ, the Gardai, the Sports Council, they're all on there as members as well.

Sparks

What has your answer got to do with the fact that the FCP met on Thursday and there is not one piece of infomration from any of the people who sit on the FCP to their members. I heard that the Misc Bill will publish on Tuesday that none of the group have seen it and it is bull that it would be improper for them to see it before being published.

If all the stakeholders are represented as you say why has none of them infromed their members of real important fact that it will be publishe on Tuesday and without much opposition will pass the first stage, clever really the mini budget is set for Tuesday also, so it will be a real snip to get the Misc bill trhough the first stage unchallenged as everyone will have their attention on the budget! Nice one!

Sparks

it is bull that it would be improper for them to see it before being published.

It's very odd to think that the FCP was going to be given primacy over the Dail. Seriously. Yes, they've got communications problems, yes they need fixing, but no, it's completely wrong to think that the FCP being formed was some sort of rewriting of the Irish Constitution.

If all the stakeholders are represented as you say why has none of them infromed their members

If I could tell you that, it would mean there weren't any communications problems, wouldn't it? In the meantime, what have you done about it? Which FCP bodies do you belong to, and have you written or called your rep on the panel and what did they say to you in response and how are you planning on dealing with that at your next AGM? Or did you think the FCP was something that you had no say in, no control over? They are your representatives, it's not a monarchy. If you really think they're not doing their job, then replace them. With yourself. And tell us everything from the inside.

Nice one!

Okay, (a) I take it you've a plan to save us if we'll only follow where you lead? and (b) until we see what's in the Misc Bill, we won't have much idea of what to do.
Besides, in order to publish a bill, you have to present it to the Dail; if the budget's out on Tuesday, and it's as contentious as we all think it will be, then there may not be enough time to present the bill then.

syconerd

Maybe these people are the people you should be talking to

NARGC – Des Crofton – nargc@iol.ie
IFA Countryside – Bernard Phelan – Bernard.phelan@fbd.ie
SSAI – Joe Costello – shootingsportsireland@gmail.com
Midlands Shooting Centre – John Paul Craven – jpcraven@eircom.net
Countryside Alliance – Lyall Plant – lyall@caireland.org
NTSA – Joe Kinane – joe.kinane@targetshootingireland.org
Liam Crawford – liam.crawford@targetshootingireland.org
Kealan Symes – kealan.symes@targetshootingireland.org
ICPSA – John McCormack – icpsa@eircom.net
Cian Merne – cian.merne@dcu.ie
IGPA & Irish Deer Society – Liam McGarry – lmcgarry@nba.ie
Irish Shooting Association – David Brennan – db@ardeesports.com
Millard Brothers (Ireland) Ltd – Philip Jordan – pjordan@milbro.com
Firearms Dealer – Philip Maher ‐ philip@fishhunt.ie

Sparks

Joe Kinane and Kealan Symes don't actually sit at the table though, they're named alternatives to Liam Crawford in case work or something else prevents him from attending. I don't know why they got listed as having seats there initially, but the NTSA doesn't somehow have three times the representation everyone else does. Same with Cian Merne.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Joe Kinane and Kealan Symes don't actually sit at the table though, they're named alternatives to Liam Crawford in case work or something else prevents him from attending. I don't know why they got listed as having seats there initially, but the NTSA doesn't somehow have three times the representation everyone else does. Same with Cian Merne.

That list came from the document issued last year by the shooting bodies on the FCP. The names were contacts for people who volunteered to answer questions on the document.

And Cian Merne is the ICPSA rep on the FCP.

People just don't seem to understand the 'consultative' part of the FCP. It's not a committee, it doesn't make decisions and it doesn't write the law. It consults and advises, but has no role in whether or not that consultation or advice is taken on board. There are other members of the FCP from the branches of Government who would also consult and advise. How much weight is given to all this can only be seen from the final output which can sometimes take months to arrive at.

As for the content of the Misc Bill, I don't pretend to know anything more than anyone else on here. As Sparks has already said, no-one outside a few in the DoJ, the AG's office and the Minister (and possibly by extension the cabinet) will know it's contents before it's published.

All I do know is that everyone concerned has worked extremely hard in ensuring that any leeway in the Minister's statement will be tipped in favour of the shooting community. Whether their efforts have been in vain or not remains to be seen.

We all just have to wait and see.

Rovi

I think it need to be emphasised that the list posted above comprises the shooting interests on the FCP; the FCP also comprises representatives of the following, and is Chaired by Mr. Garrett Byrne of DOJ&LR:

• An Garda Síochána
• Irish Sports Council
• Department of Community Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs
• Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government

Most of the above travel in packs, so the numbers of individuals attending meetings is variable.

Sparks

And technically the Sports Council is representing the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism (which is why you see the ISC there but not the Olympic Council despite there being two olympic shooting NGBs on the panel).

rrpc

jwshooter wrote: »

practical pistol shooting is to be banned , every thing over 308 is restricted .no more licensing of pistols over .22 and big restrictions on that also .reloading is not going to happen.

pretty much what we have been reading.

Well Practical Shooting is finished since the IPSA wound up, rifles over .308 are already restricted and the Minister said (in his November statement) that no more pistols outside the Olympic disciplines will be licensed.

There's been nothing published on reloading, so I'll take that with a pinch of salt until I hear it officially.

Rovi

rrpc wrote: »

There's been nothing published on reloading, so I'll take that with a pinch of salt until I hear it officially.

DOJ&LR have been saying for ages that reloading will be dealt with during a comprehensive revamp of the Explosives Acts, so I'll be surprised if it gets any sort of mention tomorrow (or whenever).

It wasn't me!

Rovi wrote: »

DOJ&LR have been saying for ages that reloading will be dealt with during a comprehensive revamp of the Explosives Acts, so I'll be surprised if it gets any sort of mention tomorrow (or whenever).

It will be a very interesting piece of legislation, but I agree; hopefully we'll have some sort of restatement of the explosives acts and a mechanism dealing with reloading within the next few months.

Sparks

Just gone through the OP for tuesday - no sign of the Misc Bill. Odds are that the budget bumped it.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Just gone through the OP for tuesday - no sign of the Misc Bill. Odds are that the budget bumped it.

I think it'll only be on the order paper if it's due to be debated. There's usually a delay between publication and debate.

G17

rrpc wrote: »

I think it'll only be on the order paper if it's due to be debated. There's usually a delay between publication and debate.

As a target pistol shooter - could I be more nervous.

This is like GAA players waiting to hear if hurleys will be allowed.

We had a target pistol shoot recently, it was such a great day; I'll probably, actually, cry if my sport is taken away; but I'll respect the law as I have always done.

I have faith that a compromise will be made, surely all the suggestions we've made to our politicians over the recent months/years will be considered. To tighten up the legislation so that the genuine target shooters can continue to compete. The public who are scared of firearms because of media coverage (understandably) don't realise how safe a sport it is. They (the public) can have peace of mind that Ireland's firearm control is the strictest anywhere in the world and should be a shining example of how shooting sports can be carried out while the public are protected.

Here's hoping.....