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Shower isolating switch burned out

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  • 02-04-2009 10:55pm
    #1
    Gadgie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭


    A couple of days ago the isolating switch for our electric shower wouldn't turn off properly (switch was stuck in the middle), and when I unscrewed it from the wall I discovered that the incoming live terminal was badly scorched, and the incoming live and neutral wires had blackened and become fused together. I have attached some pictures of this.

    Obviously the wires will have to be trimmed back, but the electricians who wired the house haven't left ANY slack in the cable whatsoever - the cables have been dragged across the beams in the attic from one conduit to the next - so I can't even feed a bit more cable down to wire up a new wall switch.

    I was thinking of putting a ceiling switch in the en suite next to the shower cubicle as this seems to be the only way I will be able to use the existing cabling. How far does this have to be away from the shower?

    I am pretty annoyed about this as the house is only a couple of years old and the shower isn't used excessively. There's only two of us in the house, and my sister was living by herself until I moved in a few months ago, so it was only used once a day until then. Is there any possibility of recourse against the builders or their subcontractors?


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    #2
    bertie1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 509 ✭✭✭bertie1


    If you are putting it in the ceiling , get an crabtree pull cord it is rated for 50A the one burned in the picture is 45A. Usually they are put outside the shower cubicle. There is no need to go turning it on & off every time you have a shower that switch is for maintenance purposes only so that nobody can turn the power on to the shower when somebody is working on it . If you go for a crabtree one it is designed to screw onto a joist & the incoming & outgoing cables come down both sides of the joist the slack will dissapear into the ceiling void without having to cut the cables too short .
    The type of old switch used makes leaving slack in the back of the box nearly impossible as the size of the cables are difficult to manover when screwing on the cover
    If the property is over a year old you have no comeback on anybody. Looks like a combination of loose connections ( which can happen to stranded cable trying to put on the cover) and the fact that is is a 45A switch it is very close to the rating of the newer showers.


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    #3
    Gadgie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Gadgie


    Thanks for your reply. I know the type of switch you are talking about. Is there a minimum distance that the switch has to be sited away from the shower cubicle? I was thinking about putting it on the ceiling just outside the cubicle. It's a small en suite, so there's not much room for manoeuvre.

    Edit: Thought I should mention that the shower is only 8.5kW. Will the 50A switch be too highly rated?

    And I hear what you're saying about the electricians not being able to leave any slack in the back of the box. But there's no slack in the loft cable, either - the cable comes up from the consumer unit, is stretched diagonally across the beams, and then goes straight down to the switch. So I can't even push a few centimetres down to trim the burnt bits off. It's so frustrating that what could have been a simple switch replacement has turned into such a fanny on.


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    #4
    bertie1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 509 ✭✭✭bertie1


    No the switch will not be rated to high it will be fine & a lot of the newer showers have a higher kw rating some up to 10kw. Anywhere at all out side the shower will be fine , what ever suits you house. Go up to the attic ( after you turn the power off )& pull back the cables, you could just put a blank plate on the current switch location. It may be inconvenient but it isn't the end of the world.


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    #5
    sparkyjo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭sparkyjo


    these switches are not just from maintainance isolation that is a stupid thing to say basically when the shower is in standby mode you'll find you have in more showers a neon light to say that the show is powered up in reality you are rght to turn off when not in use and if you down if for any reason you shower is becoming faulty you have a 32 amp supply going to it and if you look inside the show they use 1sq cable not really rated for that type of juice and then thats is were fires start, this is not the full explaination either


    and i haven't looked at the req's since they came out and i don't do much house bashing but i think there is a standard and it is not just outside the cubicle i think it was at least a meter away from the center of the shower


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    #6
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    sparkyjo wrote: »
    and i haven't looked at the req's since they came out and i don't do much house bashing but i think there is a standard and it is not just outside the cubicle i think it was at least a meter away from the center of the shower

    Its 0.6m from the edge of the shower basin i believe. It varies slightly due to the installation in the shower room. Basin, permanent partition etc


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    #7
    aws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭aws


    In fairness of the 45A switch/ pull cord is left on, and the shower is off (stand by as you said) there is no load what so ever ,even a neon indicator is hardly going to cause a fire.


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    #8
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    Gadgie wrote: »
    Edit: Thought I should mention that the shower is only 8.5kW. Will the 50A switch be too highly rated?

    Anything up to 10Kw 40A mcb and a 40A switch is normally adequate.


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    #9
    sparkyjo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭sparkyjo


    the shower does not need a load on it if it becomes faulty in any way there is a hance that it can pull in 32-40 amp which is a lot of current which if you know anything about electricity is what causes fire hence why toaster and kettle ad irons and low voltage down lighter are high causes of fire and as well as that electrical element shower have coils in them and if you have any type of damage to it it willl become hotter because the flow of current is interupted or restricted now your into resistence as i said the first post was not a full explaination


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    #10
    davelerave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭davelerave


    Davy wrote: »
    Anything up to 10Kw 40A mcb and a 40A switch is normally adequate.

    over 9 is exceeding 40amp rating


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    #11
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    ok well 9.2 would be 40a. If it was me a wouldn't leave it that close but i think the rules allow 40a mcb and iso for a 10Kw


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    #12
    davelerave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭davelerave


    Davy wrote: »
    ok well 9.2 would be 40a. If it was me a wouldn't leave it that close but i think the rules allow 40a mcb and iso for a 10Kw

    the rcbo wouldn't be a major concern it's just all the problems with burnt pull-cords as seen here(not all caused by loose connections).the bigger showers need higher rated ,quality switchgear to operate safely


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