Tonights Prime Time on Pensions: The Public Sector Pay Parity Gravy Train

jimmmy

segaBOY wrote: »

My Dad once told me Santa Claus existed-lying backstard.

More than a few Dads in the state do get state pensions of over € 100,000, as the RTE programme exposed. Do you not think that is a bit excessive, given the state of the economy / small size of the country ? After all, those same people were well looked after when they had a job. In retirement, most if not all would have their mortgage paid off, kids raised etc.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

More than a few Dads in the state do get state pensions of over € 100,000, as the RTE programme exposed. Do you not think that is a bit excessive, given the state of the economy / small size of the country ? After all, those same people were well looked after when they had a job. In retirement, most if not all would have their mortgage paid off, kids raised etc.

Agreed, these should be capped.

You say 'more than a few', could you say how many exactly?

segaBOY

jimmmy wrote: »

More than a few Dads in the state do get state pensions of over € 100,000, as the RTE programme exposed. Do you not think that is a bit excessive, given the state of the economy / small size of the country ? After all, those same people were well looked after when they had a job. In retirement, most if not all would have their mortgage paid off, kids raised etc.

I'm not arguing that jimmmy just that his source of information is a bit narrow.

NewDubliner

segaBOY wrote: »

I'm not arguing that jimmmy just that his source of information is a bit narrow.

When jimmmy needs 'facts', he just looks into his heart.

segaBOY

NewDubliner wrote: »

When jimmmy needs 'facts', he just looks into his heart.

Source please? :P

dresden8

segaBOY wrote: »

Source please? :P

His friends and their dad told him.

bobbbb

NewDubliner wrote: »

When jimmmy needs 'facts', he just looks into his heart.

Even Chuck Norris cant argue with Jimmys "Facts" from his heart.

jimmmy

"More than a few Dads in the state do get state pensions of over € 100,000, as the RTE programme exposed. Do you not think that is a bit excessive, given the state of the economy / small size of the country ? After all, those same people were well looked after when they had a job. In retirement, most if not all would have their mortgage paid off, kids raised etc. "

NewDubliner wrote: »

Agreed, these should be capped.

You say 'more than a few', could you say how many exactly?

No I could not say how many exactly. I watched the RTE programme, was was exclusively devoted to this public service gravy train. It mentioned and named some of the people on government pensions of over 100,000 per annum. If you want to find out how many exactly , good luck to you.....government departments or the C.S.O. I am sure will bend over backwards to help you ! lol

dresden8

Did George Lee not tell you how many private sector types have huge pension? Are your only friends public servants? This is odd since you hold them in such contempt.

Perhaps you should go hang around with Michael Fingleton for a while.

Lol, (or something)

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

Did George Lee not tell you how many private sector types have huge pension?

No, because that is the private business of them. Out of the 1.8 million or so people in the private sector, ( are directly or indirectly collect and send vat, corporation tax, income tax etc + send it to the government ) the vast bulk do not have pensions as generous as those previously employed by the government.

dresden8 wrote: »

Are your only friends public servants? .

No. I have lucky enough to count many relations, neighbours, club members, sporting colleagues etc as friends.....some are from the public sector, most are from the private sector. This is as you would expect, considering there are considerably more private sector than public sector people in the country.

dresden8 wrote: »

This is odd since you hold them in such contempt.

I do not hold any friends in contempt, thank you.

dresden8 wrote: »

Perhaps you should go hang around with Michael Fingleton for a while.

No thanks.

Perhaps you would concentrate more on the ball, not the player. No more personal attacks please.

dresden8

But Jimmmy, the private sector earn 2 million a year. Did you not see the RTE programme?

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

But Jimmmy, the private sector earn 2 million a year. Did you not see the RTE programme?

source please....assuming you have not had a holiday drink too many.

dresden8

Brian Goggins salary has been widely discussed. If you are not aware of the discussion I hardly think you're qualified to take part in a private versus public hatefest.

And yes we know, George Lee says the average public sector pay is 966 per week.

Just thought I'd spare you throwing that one out. Again. And again. And again. And again. Etc.

assuming you have not had a holiday drink too many

And concentrate on the ball, not the player. No more personal attacks please.

jimmmy

You did not mention Brian Goggins so how could anyone know you were talking about this one individual ?

dresden8 wrote: »

But Jimmmy, the private sector earn 2 million a year. Did you not see the RTE programme?

Nobody could interpret your complete post above / statement as a true fact, or indeed make sense of it. If you said a number of individuals ( out of the 1.8 million people in the private sector, some of whom do business outside the country ) earn 2 million a year, that would make sense. Or indeed if you clarified average earnings in the private sector.

dresden8

It's all part of the game of using unrepresentative individuals to represent the whole.

I didn't start that.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

No I could not say how many exactly.

Less than 10?

jimmmy

dresden8 wrote: »

It's all part of the game of using unrepresentative individuals to represent the whole.

You miss the point of the original posters post:

"However what i found most illuminating is the The Public Sector Pay Parity Gravy Train
eg: Garret Fitz retired on 18.5k and inflation would have made it 34k now but the pay parity scandal means he is on 105k
It can be seen at time 09:20 on the clip.
This applies to all public servants and the scandal is exacerbated when you have people on receipt of multiple ministerial and other pensions "

While the original poster and RTE did mention Garret Fitzgerald ( and other ex- Taoiseach ), the point is that other public sector people also got large pension rises since retirement.

Private sector people are generally not entitled to such large pensions. There was a lot in the programme about the 2 tier system of Irish society ...the public sector versus the worse off, larger private sector.......and yet you actually defend the public sector pensions, in this time of national crises ?

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

the point is that other public sector people also got large pension rises since retirement. Private sector people are generally not entitled to such large pensions.

Numbers please?

jimmmy

NewDubliner wrote: »

Numbers please?

Approx 300,000 public servants....according to Lee of RTE their average weekly wage is 966 euro....its therefore not unreasonable to deduct that average weekly government pension is therefore € 483 plus gratuity ( worth one and a half times yearly salary I believe ). Of course politicians pensions often exceed that, as the RTE programme highlighted.

There are approx 1.8 million people in the private sector. Their government pension is I believe just over 200 a week ? I know some self employed people who did not get any government pension after many years of collecting and paying various taxes to the govt ( eg vat, corporation tax, income tax etc )...but maybe that has changed.

NewDubliner, if you want numbers, ask your friends in the Central Statistics Office....and see their efficient response lol.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

There are approx 1.8 million people in the private sector. Their government pension is I believe just over 200 a week ?

If you're referring to the State Contributory Social Welfare pension, 400, if having a married dependent? And their non-government pension, paid for by tax-relieved contributions and employer contributions which are funded by charging everyone extra for products and services.....how much is that?

jimmmy wrote: »

NewDubliner, if you want numbers, ask your friends in the Central Statistics Office....and see their efficient response lol.

None of my friends works at the CSO.

You're the one putting making vague and misleading statements, back them with facts yourself.

Firetrap

jimmmy wrote: »

Approx 300,000 public servants....according to Lee of RTE their average weekly wage is 966 euro....its therefore not unreasonable to deduct that average weekly government pension is therefore € 483 plus gratuity ( worth one and a half times yearly salary I believe ). Of course politicians pensions often exceed that, as the RTE programme highlighted.

Is this €996 before or after tax?

kippy

Firetrap wrote: »

Is this €996 before or after tax?

I would assume it is gross.

NewDubliner

kippy wrote: »

I would assume it is gross.

OK, so for a public servant, half of 966 is 483/week, regardless of whether or not there is a dependent.

For a private sector worker with a dependent over 66 years, it's 436 euro a week plus possibly some kind of work-related pension on top of that.

But, since the 966 is an average and some get paid more than others, their total pension could be less than the state pension?

dustbabe

Hey guys,
Just been reading this thread on the pensions lark.
Interesting stuff, ten years ago when i was 5 years qualified as a nurse, i looked after people in construction and girls making cds who were getting my monthly salary in a weeks wage packet. Did i not feel hard done by?? Now those very people are probably out of work. Our salaries did increase but hey jimmy never let it be said that the nurses have the gilt edge salary or pension.
Believe it or not our public service is not as over inflated with staff as you all think, read MAev Ann WRens book called How Ireland Cares, for a shocker of a read. U will see how we do not have enough physios or socail workers to do their jobs and who is paying for that? The poor person like you waiting to be seen for 8 months etc. Be under no illusion though that we need 45000 admin staff in the HSE to administer 65000 clinical staff. I met someone from the HSE once, and still
no one knows what they do. They went on strike a few years ago and guess what no one noticed!!
But do not compare me a nurse to bertie ahern getting 165000 euro when he has not even reached retiring age, as my pension will never be that.

jimmycrackcorm

It simply boils down to two issues:

1) Through benchmarking and other increases, the public service pay packet increased dramatically in line with the tax revenue - now that must contract in line with the decrease.

2) We're all more than aware that there are huge inefficiencies in staffing - witness the proportion of admin staff in the HSE.

Both these issues need to be corrected. But I think the general feeling might be that we wouldn't mind paying for an efficient quality of services, we just don't get that now. We put up with it when we were flush but the belt is getting tighter now and we need to diet.

jimmmy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It simply boils down to two issues:

1) Through benchmarking and other increases, the public service pay packet increased dramatically in line with the tax revenue - now that must contract in line with the decrease.

2) We're all more than aware that there are huge inefficiencies in staffing - witness the proportion of admin staff in the HSE.

.

+ 1

Well said. Public expenditire increased from 36 billion to 63 billion over the past 6 years. The govt wasted a great opportunity to slash it 4% in the budget ( at least ), because inflation is minus 4%. It means the public service + their pensioners got another 4% increase in real terms.

gurramok

Benchmark backwards, the only fair way of an alternative to widespread cutting of numbers.(still cut those HSE admin staff)

grahamo

jimmmy wrote: »

+ 1

Well said. Public expenditire increased from 36 billion to 63 billion over the past 6 years. The govt wasted a great opportunity to slash it 4% in the budget ( at least ), because inflation is minus 4%. It means the public service + their pensioners got another 4% increase in real terms.

GROAN!:( Its like listening to a broken record, the same posts over and over,
the same copied and pasted 'facts' plagiarised from some second rate tabloid.

The big earners in the public sector are in a SMALL minority.
The wasters in the public sector are in a SMALL minority.
The average joe in the public sector has been hit with pension levies, income levies and health levies and a pay freeze for the next few years resulting in a significant drop in income. i.e. a PAY CUT!!!!
The so called gold plated pension may exist if your a member of the gardai and can retire early or a TD where you get it after a term in office but the majority of post 1995 employees will be lucky if they get the money back they pay in to it.
Some people on here have got some neck calling public sector workers they don't even know lazy or a waster while at the same time they spend all day on here moaning and whingeing because an economic downturn means that for the first time in their young, inexperienced lives things aren't going their way.
If they put as much energy into turning their circumstances around as they put into moaning on boards they wouldn't have any problems!

jimmmy

grahamo wrote: »

GROAN!:( Its like listening to a broken record, the same posts over and over,
the same copied and pasted 'facts' plagiarised from some second rate tabloid.

Its not copied and pasted. How dare you. It was on national radio the other day. Which part of the post do you not agree with ( before you copy + paste something irrelevant ) ? :
"Public expenditure increased from 36 billion to 63 billion over the past 6 years. The govt wasted a great opportunity to slash it 4% in the budget ( at least ), because inflation is minus 4%. It means the public service + their pensioners got another 4% increase in real terms"

stevoman

grahamo wrote: »

GROAN!:( Its like listening to a broken record, the same posts over and over,
the same copied and pasted 'facts' plagiarised from some second rate tabloid.

+ 1,000,000