M3 progress

Amtmann

Thanks for that leitrim lad. And don't worry; I doubt if they've cursed you!

Just getting back to the misrepresentation of the M3's route by certain parties, my first real encounter with this phenomenon was back in 2007, when I went on a roadtrip from Cork to Donegal with my then girlfriend, who was an American. She brought a copy of Lonely Planet's Irish travel guide with her, and we were finding it to be really useful. One day she decided to look up Tara, as we were thinking of going there. She read the first paragraph of this section...



...to me as I was driving along, and while I had no real interest in roads at that point, I just knew that it couldn't be right. I wonder how many backpacking free spirits/alternative types read that passage that year, and how much misinformation was spread globally because of it?

Bog Butter

Furet wrote: »

Thanks for that leitrim lad. And don't worry; I doubt if they've cursed you!

Just getting back to the misrepresentation of the M3's route by certain parties, my first real encounter with this phenomenon was back in 2007, when I went on a roadtrip from Cork to Donegal with my then girlfriend, who was an American. She brought a copy of Lonely Planet's Irish travel guide with her, and we were finding it to be really useful. One day she decided to look up Tara, as we were thinking of going there. She read the first paragraph of this section...



...to me as I was driving along, and while I had no real interest in roads at that point, I just knew that it couldn't be right. I wonder how many backpacking free spirits/alternative types read that passage that year, and how much misinformation was spread globally because of it?

Now that is misleading. It's disgracefull actually; no wonder you had crazy Americans writing to the national papers and the M. Chronicle.

Irish and Proud

leitrim lad wrote: »

furet
...i even met relations of mine that i never knew i had , when we went trough there land with the new road , im not sure of the exact townland but i think its in stamullen would that be right, thats the navan side of dunshuaghlin not far from that postoffice between navan and dunshuaghlin is that tara post office,

and i liked the tara na ri aswell great spot

Stamullen is in East Meath near the M1 Gormanston Interchange - I think it's Lismullen you're talking about, where some of the main M3 confrontations took place.

Regards!

Irish and Proud

malman wrote: »

Now that is misleading. It's disgracefull actually; no wonder you had crazy Americans writing to the national papers and the M. Chronicle.

It's a disgrace - no wonder people (on the news a good while back) came to Tara to get a so-called last opportunity to see it before it was to be destroyed by the M3! :rolleyes:

Liars! :mad:

Irish and Proud

leitrim lad wrote: »

furet

its not badly built but, the amount of bad things that happened everyone involved there , like how many companies went bust, everyone else had machinery damaged and i got off lightly with mine, compared to others, an then the hippies,

Apparently, a bridge at Bohermeen is subsiding and cracking - what's the storey there?

Many thanks!

Irish and Proud

upmeath wrote: »

Well it is Bohermeen :rolleyes:
You'd have more joy in building a tunnel under Bangor Erris than in building a road anywhere around Tullaghanstown/Greetiagh/Bohermeen. The Drogheda-Mullingar road is a disgrace in that area, it's subsiding and has been for 15 or 20 years.

...well if the area is bog, then piles should be used for bridge abutments/pillars, while roads should be built on embankments - about a decade ago, I spoke to an elderly man who worked on the roads in England - he said that when embankments were being constructed, bushes would be thrown down first, (forming a raft I take it) to counter subsidence - apparently, the timber was known not to rot over the suceeding years!

Regards!

leitrim lad

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Stamullen is in East Meath near the M1 Gormanston Interchange - I think it's Lismullen you're talking about, where some of the main M3 confrontations took place.

Regards!

thats the one lismullen, its been a while since i was there so i got mixed up, thats where my poor windows lifes ended

thanks

leitrim lad

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Apparently, a bridge at Bohermeen is subsiding and cracking - what's the storey there?

Many thanks!

the ground was outrageous bad ,no matter how deep you went down the worse it got ,not really bog, more like floating sand, mixed with wet greasy clay,


meath is renouned for its good farming land ,or atleast where i come from it is, but on this occasion all i could bring up in the bucket was soup,

now i dont want to upset the mods with this comment but there was serious financial problems out there aswell had nothing to do with the nra,or the council,but when men were not getting paid and subcontractors ended up going bust ,its no wonder the effort was not put into the work,

why do you think i abandoned ship, if i didnt i wouldnt be trading today

Amtmann

No doubt the solstice worshippers and crystal wearers will blame it all on the Tuath de Danan and the Fir Bolgs. We need to see a picture of this reportedly dodgy bridge! Piles should have been driven down 30 metres into the earth if necessary to add support.

Bog Butter

As someone who has an interest in archaeology I would be interested to know if the M3 protesters have shaped or changed your opinions about archaeology. Do people see archaeology as an nuisance, getting in the way of development?

Amtmann

Some of my friends are actually archaeologists. Their opinions on the M3 vary, but most were not against the construction. My own opinion is that archaeology is an invaluable discipline within the humanities, and always will be.

The protestors are a different affair, and I don't have much time for them. I don't associate them with archaeology anyway, though Vincent Salafia did post an interview with an elderly archaeologist on Youtube a while back.

Rarely have I heard such gross hyperbole. It was frankly stupid to compare the M3 works to a concentration camp. An academic specialising in things past should know better.

pullandbang

malman wrote: »

As someone who has an interest in archaeology I would be interested to know if the M3 protesters have shaped or changed your opinions about archaeology. Do people see archaeology as an nuisance, getting in the way of development?

From what I saw of these "M3 Protesters" they were a bunch of good for nothing hippies. A "rent a mob" who moved from one confrontation to another. Glen of the Downs, Carrickmines...etc...etc..a lot of imported yobs with nothing better to do than cause havoc. I wouldn't mention these yobs and archaeologists in the same breath....they are breeds apart. These muppets who claim to want to protect our heritage want nothing other than confrontation and to make a name for themselves - publicity seekers.
In fact I'd say they have tarnished the reputation of genuine archaeologists who do have an interest in protecting our heritage and history.

leitrim lad

malman wrote: »

As someone who has an interest in archaeology I would be interested to know if the M3 protesters have shaped or changed your opinions about archaeology. Do people see archaeology as an nuisance, getting in the way of development?

i love it ,i love our history, and i enjoy archeology, i can even trace my family back to the 3rd century , on the same farm of land we are on today, thats how origional i am

them hippies are no good wasters ,and i noticed they all disapeared every thursday/friday for a few hours to collect their benefits, i was face to face with them and i raced after them with one of my diggers in fast track , that put the sh2ts up them ,and fair play to navan and dunshaughlin gardai they were backen me all the way, even arrested a few of the dirty f111ers

then they wouldnt let the diesel lorry in to fill up the machines, so again the digger was put into action and they got another chase, an english one in an ould white citroen car with one of them speakers that can pick you up from a mile away, taught she was smart until she seen me heading for her car with a fairly big CAT ,she wasnt long dropping the speaker and moving her crock then,

one fella got into the bucket of my 330 one day so i put him up as high as she could reach and turned her off ,left him up there for the best part of the day, gaurds and every one making a laugh of him

and that post office between navan and dunshuaghlin, go down that road half a mile to the new m3 crosses it i think thats lismullen or near it anyway, one side is the navan gardai and the other is dunshuaghlin, well the fun we had with the hippies there , purposely having machines crossing the road just to annoy them ,

more of them near got ran down ahh such craic

upmeath

Furet wrote: »

we need to see some pictures of the M3 on boards.ie.
It's amazing - after the M50, it is already the most notorious motorway in Ireland, yet we have no photographs of it... ...But no M3! Given the reports made about several bridges on the scheme, I'd like to see some evidence.

I cross the route on my way to Kells from Trim every day, and any one of three routes I can take brings me over the flyovers so I'll bring a camera with me some reasonably good day this week and take a few shots. Do I need to create a designated M3 thread or is there already one there?

Amtmann

Hi upmeath, you can use this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055504912

or this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055514626

on the Infrastructure forum. Cheers. Looking forward to seeing your photos.

mcwhirter

leitrim lad wrote: »

i love it ,i love our history, and i enjoy archeology, i can even trace my family back to the 3rd century , on the same farm of land we are on today, thats how origional i am

them hippies are no good wasters ,and i noticed they all disapeared every thursday/friday for a few hours to collect their benefits, i was face to face with them and i raced after them with one of my diggers in fast track , that put the sh2ts up them ,and fair play to navan and dunshaughlin gardai they were backen me all the way, even arrested a few of the dirty f111ers

then they wouldnt let the diesel lorry in to fill up the machines, so again the digger was put into action and they got another chase, an english one in an ould white citroen car with one of them speakers that can pick you up from a mile away, taught she was smart until she seen me heading for her car with a fairly big CAT ,she wasnt long dropping the speaker and moving her crock then,

one fella got into the bucket of my 330 one day so i put him up as high as she could reach and turned her off ,left him up there for the best part of the day, gaurds and every one making a laugh of him

and that post office between navan and dunshuaghlin, go down that road half a mile to the new m3 crosses it i think thats lismullen or near it anyway, one side is the navan gardai and the other is dunshuaghlin, well the fun we had with the hippies there , purposely having machines crossing the road just to annoy them ,

more of them near got ran down ahh such craic

I see you were very busy constructing the road then:D

Irish and Proud

Furet wrote: »

Hi upmeath, you can use this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055504912

or this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055514626

on the Infrastructure forum. Cheers. Looking forward to seeing your photos.

Hi Furet,

About the section of M8 between jct 11 and 12, you (among others) were saying the a section of hard shoulder collapsed, resulting in road closure for the repairs. Also, I believe the same section's surface is pretty uneven - now given that the said problems apply mainly to just one section (jct 11 to 12), is the surrounding area another Bohermeen where the ground beneath is like soup? I wonder if areas of such ground conditions should be treated like water and bridged accordingly, or possibly constructed on platoons?

Now about Bohermeen itself, what the hell were the surveyors doing? - there were blatent examples of ground problems in the area - as the M3 EIS says, Route A (the chosen route through Bohermeen) affects only one house - why might that be? :rolleyes: - did these people not have a look at the area and notice the N51 nearby??? :mad: Did they not bore trial holes to check the ground conditions - is that not their job??? :mad:

Also, the funny thing is that Tara Mines nearby goes 800m deep - that's 1/2 mile straight down - equivilant of an inverted Burj Dubai (800m high). Now, I've yet to hear about any flooding problems there @ -800m, so looking at the route selection on the Navan Bypass (section of M3), route C (by the rear of Tara Mines) might have been a better option. Another very funny thing is that the railways (near Bohermeen) built more than a century ago seem to have no problems with subsidence - and given that railways have to be extremely flat and even, what does that say for us and out technology in 2009? :rolleyes:

It's a disgrace - just as well our counterparts from 100 years back didn't hack time travel - they'd be laughing at the world now looking at all the screw ups - ie. the Boston Big Dig with leaking walls and collapsing ceilings, a tunnel in Portugal completely flooding during construction, the 3 Gorges Dam in China with the new man made earthquakes and droughts, etc, etc, etc! :mad:

OMG, professionals can do nothing right these days! :mad:

Regards!

Amtmann

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Hi Furet,

About the section of M8 between jct 11 and 12, you (among others) were saying the a section of hard shoulder collapsed, resulting in road closure for the repairs. Also, I believe the same section's surface is pretty uneven - now given that the said problems apply mainly to just one section (jct 11 to 12), is the surrounding area another Bohermeen where the ground beneath is like soup? I wonder if areas of such ground conditions should be treated like water and bridged accordingly, or possibly constructed on platoons?

No, it's actually good dry ground, not boggy in the least...just poor craftsmanship.

Irish and Proud

Furet wrote: »

No, it's actually good dry ground, not boggy in the least...just poor craftsmanship.

Well I hope the people responsible are made to redo the job at their own expense - that's in addition to penalties for the resulting traffic disruption!

It's time we as a country got very serious! :mad:

Regards!

Amtmann

The motorway was closed about three weeks ago for four days and the subsidence was repaired. Not sure who paid for it, but I reckon the contractors that built it (Roadbridge Sisk JV) were liable.

CUCINA

I took some photos of M3 around Fairyhouse etc., this weekend...perhaps someone out there might be able to explain to me how to up-load them onto this site??
Thanks in advance!

Amtmann

CUCINA wrote: »

I took some photos of M3 around Fairyhouse etc., this weekend...perhaps someone out there might be able to explain to me how to up-load them onto this site??
Thanks in advance!

Cucina, you can register an account on www.flickr.com for free. Once you've done that, you can upload the photos by following the simple instructions. When they are online on Flickr, click on an image and use the "all sizes" button. Then grab the photo's URL and create a post here on this thread, placing the URL between the following code: .

It'll only take a few minutes.

CUCINA

Thanks for that, Furet, not being a techie, it sounds a bit more complicated than I thought, but I'll definitely give it a whirl, maybe this weekend, thanks again for the info...

Bog Butter

Or you could upload your photos onto your boards.ie profile.

- Click on your name
- Click on User CP
- Click on Pictures and Albums which is located in your control panel (the column on the left) under Networking

You create an album here and you then upload your photos into that album.

If the photos are too big they will be resized automatically.

If there is an error in uploading you can resize the photos manually using the IrfanView software.

http://www.irfanview.com/

IIMII

It is an impressive project. But in relation to some of the posters above, what's done is done. And thankfully the hippies are gone. But the point still stands that Tara was never just a hill in times gone by - it would have been that whole area around the hill, incl the stretch across to the hill of Skryne. Dev's son (Prof Ruairi De Valera)testified to that effect in the court case where the state bought the hill by compulsary purchase order. Anyway, whatever damage was done is done, and the sooner the whole lot is completed the better. Still shouldn't have followed that route, and the 2 tolls are excessive. It will be good to be able to go Navan Dublin by motorway - that and the M50/N3 upgrade should make commuting less taxing, time-wise if not toll-wise. If FG get in maybe Shane McEntee (the only anti-M3 toll TD) may try to keep his promise to have that situation alleviated. Doubt it somehow

Bog Butter

IIMII wrote: »

It is an impressive project. But in relation to some of the posters above, what's done is done. And thankfully the hippies are gone. But the point still stands that Tara was never just a hill in times gone by - it would have been that whole area around the hill, incl the stretch across to the hill of Skryne. Dev's son (Prof Ruairi De Valera)testified to that effect in the court case where the state bought the hill by compulsary purchase order. Anyway, whatever damage was done is done, and the sooner the whole lot is completed the better. Still shouldn't have followed that route, and the 2 tolls are excessive. It will be good to be able to go Navan Dublin by motorway - that and the M50/N3 upgrade should make commuting less taxing, time-wise if not toll-wise. If FG get in maybe Shane McEntee (the only anti-M3 toll TD) may try to keep his promise to have that situation alleviated. Doubt it somehow

There was no damage done. Archaeological excavations alone, never mind the desk based archaeolgical research, took over 2 and 1/2 years prior to the start of construction to complete.

IIMII

malman wrote: »

There was no damage done. Archaeological excavations alone, never mind the desk based archaeolgical research, took over 2 and 1/2 years prior to the start of construction to complete.

No damage done? Sure there were structures demolished. As I said it doesn't matter now, but I do think another route should have been taken

Bog Butter

IIMII wrote: »

No damage done? Sure there were structures demolished. As I said it doesn't matter now, but I do think another route should have been taken

Structures demolised! Could you be a bit more specific? Are you taking about the archaeological sites which were scientifically excavated? These sites have added so much to the archaeological record. Lismullin for example was heavily damaged by years of agriculture but thankfully the very depths were left to be recorded.

IIMII

This is such a stale fish that I couldn't be bothered arguing about it. I read the thread earlier and said don't bother to myself. I wish I hadn't, and as much as I'm tempted to get into it, I'm not tempted enough

Bog Butter

It is not my intention to argue, nor is it to legitimise the route of the road. It is my intention though to dispel any myth that might exist that structures were destroyed. There were no structures to be demolished. The Lismullin site for example revealed evidence of where timber posts once stood which when viewed in plan formed a double timber circle. The point being that what was found at Lismullin was not a structure but rather firm evidence that a structure once stood; a negative record if you like. That differs from say Newgrange which is an upstanding structure.

"Structures destroyed" - Be warned this probably originated from the protesters.