Man Utd v Aston Villa

redout

KevIRL wrote: »

New Desktop background imo

Hey man you stole my pic

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59700362&postcount=14713

Nalz

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yes but you accused people of expecting a goal every time he touches the ball. That is simply nonsense.

As a fan it's not asking a lot for the guy to show a positive attitude for 90 minutes, even if he's not playing well.

I agree completely, if this guy changed his mentality I have no doubt he'd be more likeable but even moreso he'd be a better player

None of this shi't "that just who he is".

Spud83

That was a massive massive win.

If we had lost that game we would have really really stuggled to pick ourselves up. Not only do the three points give us a lift but the manner of the victory should really have the dressing room buzzing.

Delighted for Kiko think a lot of people had a feeling he would do something when he came on. It was just too good a story not to happen. Though breaking into the front line at United is a hard thing to do. Name me the last one to do it? Prob Mark Hughes off the top of my head.

As for Ronaldo the man is priceless. He comes up with the goals and inspiration more than any other player at united. There are only a few players in the world that could replace him and none of the are attainable. He cannot be sold with out some serious and risky reworking of our team.

This will be an interesting run in and will go down to the second last weekend at least IMO. I'm kind of happy with that, a constant challenge should keep the players sharp and focuses. Bring it on.

Headshot

todays game brings it home how much I love this sport

what a weekend of soccer too

best weekend iv experienced for a long time

Fenix

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yes but you accused people of expecting a goal every time he touches the ball. That is simply nonsense.

I think that he may have said that with a touch of sarcasm, but more that some people expected him to show the form of last season and score at least once everytime he starts or somthing along those lines.

As a fan it's not asking a lot for the guy to show a positive attitude for 90 minutes, even if he's not playing well.

Yea of course it would be nice, but its part of his game, while were at taking the negitive attitude out of Ronaldos game, lets get rid of Rooneys dangerous aggression and Berbatovs laziness.

Its part and parcel of the player, but in my opinion, his Pro's heavily outweigh his Con's.

Vampireskiss

He reminds me of solksjaer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CArvh0Ypu-M

Dave!

I felt Kiko would do the bidniss when he came on, but I did a sex wee when I saw that f*cking goal For me, the most exciting and tense United match since Moscow


tbh

whatawaster

Fenix wrote: »

Its part and parcel of the player, but in my opinion, his Pro's heavily outweigh his Con's.

why is it part and parcel? Why is it allowed and why has it been indulged for so many years. No player should get away with sauntering around a pitch, disrespecting your teammates. I can only accept bad attributes from a player if they are those that come from natural ability - touch, speed etc. But workrate and mentality are universal. Everyone can and should do their best.

Xavi6

Fenix wrote: »

Yea of course it would be nice, but its part of his game, while were at taking the negitive attitude out of Ronaldos game, lets get rid of Rooneys dangerous aggression and Berbatovs laziness.

No harm in Rooney's aggression, at least you know he's trying.

Berbatov on the other hand.....well I think his attitude is absolutely disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself. Not the sort of personality I'd want at my club, no matter how talented he is.

Its part and parcel of the player, but in my opinion, his Pro's heavily outweigh his Con's.

Sorry but I don't accept that 'meh' attitude.

If Darren Fletcher displayed the same sort of mannerisms on the field he'd be lambasted left right and centre, despite the fact that he was (imo) the best player on the park today.

It seems that allowances are made for Ronaldo, and I don't agree with it.

Headshot

better vid

_blank_

whatawaster wrote: »

that's rubbish. No player has the right not to work hard for his teammates. No winger should be absolved of any responsibility to help out their fullback. .

People were spouting this same shíte last season too.

And I'll repeat myself here again.

Do you think a manager like Alex Ferguson would keep a player displaying these tendencies?

The manager TELLS him to play like that.

He does it in EVERY single game.

If he was just being a lay bastard, the I'm sure Ferguson would have him out on his arse wuicker than you could say "diving winker".

He does and plays the way his manager, the most succssful manager in the English game, tells him to.

Ditto Berbatov.

Dave!

I thought Fletcher had a cracking game, he really didn't stop hastling people for the whole match, never stopped running. Love that guy.

RasTa

Dave! wrote: »

I thought Fletcher had a cracking game, he really didn't stop hastling people for the whole match, never stopped running. Love that guy.

+1 on that, Man of the Match for me.

Bounty Hunter

I feel robbed as Villa came away without even a point but we just lost to the 08/09 premiership champions elect Manchester United as far as im concerned. To get a victory today when not on top and missing so many starters is a brillant result for those Red Divils

Spud83

Agree with des.

Fergie sets the team up to try free Ronaldo as much as possibly. He is always our best out ball for the defence because of his speed strength and diving. Look at the end of the game today. Ball ftomthe defence to Ronaldo at the half way line. Ball us carried to the opposition corner by Ronaldo with zero support. He takes pressure off the defence by always being available and willing to take the ball.

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

People were spouting this same shíte last season too.

And I'll repeat myself here again.

Do you think a manager like Alex Ferguson would keep a player displaying these tendencies?

The manager TELLS him to play like that.

He does it in EVERY single game.

If he was just being a lay bastard, the I'm sure Ferguson would have him out on his arse wuicker than you could say "diving winker".

He does and plays the way his manager, the most succssful manager in the English game, tells him to.

Ditto Berbatov.

Not buying it.

Ronaldo scored 42 goals last season. That in itself makes his other flaws tolerable, and I believe that's what Fergie does.

Do you honestly think the great Alex Ferguson would put up with the nancy boy attitude if he tapped in 2 or 3 goals every 40 games? Not a chance. Ronaldo plays the way he wants, and no Fergie or anyone else is going to change that.

However, the end product is simply far too good for Ferguson to go rocking the boat.

whatawaster

Des wrote: »

People were spouting this same shíte last season too.

And I'll repeat myself here again.

Do you think a manager like Alex Ferguson would keep a player displaying these tendencies?

The manager TELLS him to play like that.

He does it in EVERY single game.

If he was just being a lay bastard, the I'm sure Ferguson would have him out on his arse wuicker than you could say "diving winker".

He does and plays the way his manager, the most succssful manager in the English game, tells him to.

Ditto Berbatov.

Well now you've said it it must be true. Are you privy to his teamtalks.

I don't believe for a second that Fergie would tell a player to give anything less than his best. Is Ronaldo a work-horse for Portugal? Haven't seen a lot of their games but i doubt it.

Fergie puts up with stuff from Ronaldo he never did with his previous stars.

Berbatov was the same for Spurs so that doesn't really hold up.

_blank_

So, Ferguson manages Ronaldo differently to the way he's managed every player he ever has had under him?

It's this that people "shouldn't buy".

Spud83

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not buying it.

Ronaldo scored 42 goals last season. That in itself makes his other flaws tolerable, and I believe that's what Fergie does.

Do you honestly think the great Alex Ferguson would put up with the nancy boy attitude if he tapped in 2 or 3 goals every 40 games? Not a chance. Ronaldo plays the way he wants, and no Fergie or anyone else is going to change that.

However, the end product is simply far too good for Ferguson to go rocking the boat.

Or maybe fergie realizes how good ronaldo is and therefore insures the team is set up to give him as much freedom as possible. Sadelling him with defense responsabilities would take away from his attacking play.

Is it not the same as Rafa coming up with the 4411 formation for Liverpool to get the best of gerrard.

note: I know rafa did not invent 4411

_blank_

Exactly what I'm saying Spud.

but it just doesn't fit people's agendas top see it that way.

PHB

That's the darn point Xavi. He wouldn't get away with it if he only scored 2 goals a season. But he doesn't, he scores 20+ when playing badly.

He is so amazing up front, that he is allowed not track back. Hell the system has changed to deal with it. 2 deep lying midfielders is what United switch to the season that Van Nist left and Ronaldo became the main man. Co-incidence? Not a chance.

United are built to deal with Ronaldo not tracking back. It's why we've got the best defence in the league this year despite him playing nearly all the games.

Fergie lets him do it, and beyond that, adjusts the team so he can do it.

I honestly couldn't give a **** if he is positive throughout the game, could not care less. I don't care if he doesn't chase down stray causes that once in every ten times result in a block. That's what Rooney's there for, he's got the energy for it.

Ronaldo is able to run at full pace the length of the pitch in the 93th minute because he doesn't do that. He's there to win games. He's not there to stop us from losing.


---

Beyond why he does it, I don't understand why anyone would even want him to do that?

Surely it's better that he stands and waits for the break. That way, you know, he can start the counter attacks and win the bloody game for us?

Spud83

Xavi6 wrote: »

No harm in Rooney's aggression, at least you know he's trying.

Berbatov on the other hand.....well I think his attitude is absolutely disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself. Not the sort of personality I'd want at my club, no matter how talented he is.

LOL Robinho and training camp come to mind

whatawaster

If Ronaldo is to be allowed do what he wants, he should be playing as a central attacker. The wing is too important a part in the defensive system. Anypne playing there must help out their full back. You know this. I know this. Fergie knows this. So why would he not make Ronaldo do what's best for the team when they don't have the ball. I can guarantee you United have been hurt and will be hurt defensively in the future as long as Ronaldo is indulged in this way

Xavi6

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Or maybe fergie realizes how good ronaldo is and therefore insures the team is set up to give him as much freedom as possible. Sadelling him with defense responsabilities would take away from his attacking play.

Is it not the same as Rafa coming up with the 4411 formation for Liverpool to get the best of gerrard.

note: I know rafa did not invent 4411

I'm not debating his defensive responsibilities. I'm talking about his petulent attempt to win free kicks and his sulky attitude and arm flailing that comes about when thing don't go his way. All of that was on display today btw, but two goals will erase peoples' short term memories.

Ferguson tolerates that purely because he knows goals will come eventually. Great to have at your disposal, but to overlook or try justify it by saying "Yeah well that's who he is" is silly.

Xavi6

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

LOL Robinho and training camp come to mind

I'm not exactly sure what you're inferring with that but read the City/Arsenal match thread from yesterday and in the OP you will see me calling for Robinho to be dropped.

whatawaster

Gerrard defends for Liverpool. Even if he does have a free role.

Messi, the best creative player in the world, works hard and defends for the team. Someone, please, tell me, with a straight face, that this takes away from his attacking skill?

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree with Xavi. Ronaldo gets away with a LOT from Fergie because of what he can do but there's no reason why he couldn't do what he does and still put the TEAM first. Does he do this? Not from what I can see. Today he was pouting, throwing his arms around and being the petulant baby that he has been numerous times this season. Did he come up with the goods? Today, yes. But that doesn't brush away the negatives of the man's game today.

ITT-Pat

RE: the Xavi -v- Des argument(I'm only calling it that for the sake of handiness)

Its a pointless discussion, as we'll prob never know the answe0

Edit: Didn't realise xavi was talking about Ronaldo's petualnce:o Have agree with him on that.

_blank_

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ferguson tolerates that purely because he knows goals will come eventually. Great to have at your disposal, but to overlook or try justify it by saying "Yeah well that's who he is" is silly.

Why is it "silly"?

It wins trophies.

League titles, European Cups, World Club Cups.

Who cares if a player is a dickhead?

The manager plays his team to one of his best players good points.

that is what makes him the best manager of his generation.

Fenix

Xavi6 wrote: »

No harm in Rooney's aggression, at least you know he's trying.

Berbatov on the other hand.....well I think his attitude is absolutely disgusting and he should be ashamed of himself. Not the sort of personality I'd want at my club, no matter how talented he is.

Sorry but I don't accept that 'meh' attitude.

If Darren Fletcher displayed the same sort of mannerisms on the field he'd be lambasted left right and centre, despite the fact that he was (imo) the best player on the park today.

It seems that allowances are made for Ronaldo, and I don't agree with it.

A little over the top perhaps ? absolutely disgusting ? I disagree. While i would like him to have the workrate of Tevez for example, thats not him, Fergie knew that when he bought him and utd fans did too, they knew exactly what they were getting for thier money, a finisher who has the ability to show moments of pure class. Hes shown that this season but i agree that he hasn't show enough of it. The 2 late goals in seperate 1 goal victories this season, how priceless are they now ? I still expect more from him next season, but i know he will still have that laziness about him...

All I am sayin is that, I as a utd fan am glad Ronaldo was on the pitch today as if he wasnt i honestly dont think we would have got the result we did.

No player should get away with sauntering around a pitch, disrespecting your teammates.

All I am sayin is that, I as a utd fan am glad Ronaldo was on the pitch today as if he wasnt i honestly dont think we would have got the result we did. If shouting at team mates for screwing somthing up is disrespecting your team mates then why single out Ronaldo as if hes the only player that ever shouted at a team mate ? Week in week out this happens in every team.

PHB

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not debating his defensive responsibilities. I'm talking about his petulent attempt to win free kicks and his sulky attitude and arm flailing that comes about when thing don't go his way.

That's part of him. It's a flaw. Just like Rooney's aggression is part of him. It's a flaw.

But if you took the aggression away from Rooney you'd see a different player. If you took the petulance, the belief in the god given right that he owns the ball, away from Ronaldo, you'd see a different player.

kingshankly

christ that lad who got the winner looks more 27 than 17:eek:

Spud83

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not debating his defensive responsibilities. I'm talking about his petulent attempt to win free kicks and his sulky attitude and arm flailing that comes about when thing don't go his way. All of that was on display today btw, but two goals will erase peoples' short term memories.

Ferguson tolerates that purely because he knows goals will come eventually. Great to have at your disposal, but to overlook or try justify it by saying "Yeah well that's who he is" is silly.

Alright so you have a problem with his attitude. Well TBH him failing his arms around does a lot less damage than Rooneys violent temper. Both are showing frustration in different ways.

But I can't argue with too much as I get pissed off when Keane constantly does the same thing for Ireland. I just feel Ronaldo backs up his attitude with ability and performances more than keane.

Bounty Hunter

tbh i dont think Ronaldo is a winger he plays more like below but with himself dropping deep to pick up the ball while Tevez/Rooney stay up to support Berbs:

.................................Berbatov
..........Rooney/Tevez.....................Ronaldo
.......Giggs/Nani......Carrick/Scholes....Park/fletcher

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Why is it "silly"?

It wins trophies.

League titles, European Cups, World Club Cups.

Who cares if a player is a dickhead?

The manager plays his team to one of his best players good points.

that is what makes him the best manager of his generation.

It appears we want different things from players in our team.

If, and it's obviously a massive if, Ronaldo's goals dried up completely, but his attitude remained the same, do you think United fans would be as tolerant as they are being right now?

Mikeyt086

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what you're inferring with that but read the City/Arsenal match thread from yesterday and in the OP you will see me calling for Robinho to be dropped.

I agree with you, but your argument reeks of thinking Robinho and Ronaldo are the same player and thus treating them the same.

You feel that way about Robinho, I, and alot of people in this thread feel differently to Ronaldo.

If this was the Robinho thread i prob would have agreed with every point. But Ronaldo IS good enough to be allowed to play the way he is. Robinho might not be.

What if Ronaldo's goals dried up... What if i was a girl, i wouldnt like football at all.

Xavi6

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I agree with you, but your argument reeks of thinking Robinho and Ronaldo are the same player and thus treating them the same.

You feel that way about Robinho, I, and alot of people in this thread feel differently to Ronaldo.

If this was the Robinho thread i prob would have agreed with every point. But Ronaldo IS good enough to be allowed to play the way he is. Robinho might not be.

What if Ronaldo's goals dried up... What if i was a girl, i wouldnt like football at all.

TBH I have no idea why Robinho was even mentioned in this thread. AFAIK he wasn't playing today, and has nothing to do with this thread.

Unless someone was merely having a cheap dig.....but that'd never happen.

whatawaster

Fenix wrote: »

All I am sayin is that, I as a utd fan am glad Ronaldo was on the pitch today as if he wasnt i honestly dont think we would have got the result we did. If shouting at team mates for screwing somthing up is disrespecting your team mates then why single out Ronaldo as if hes the only player that ever shouted at a team mate ? Week in week out this happens in every team.

Of course every United fan should be glad he was on the pitch today. But he can be on the pitch, do all the good things he does, but still try harder. He doesn't even need to track back, just chase the ball down more and hassle defenders more. If he put as much effort into improving his attitude as he did into practising free kicks and other techniques then he'd be nearly as good as Messi.

kingshankly wrote: »

christ that lad who got the winner looks more 27 than 17:eek:

I want to see papers!

m@cc@

~Rebel~ wrote: »

well, the most impressive one since Rooney's for Everton against Arsenal anyway. And we all know how that turned out.

Old ladies better be wary of Macheda

Probably being pedantic but Rooney was 16 at the time.

whatawaster

Des wrote: »

The manager plays his team to one of his best players good points.

But makes no effort (and it wouldn't take a lot) to eradicate their flaws?

PHB wrote: »

That's part of him. It's a flaw. Just like Rooney's aggression is part of him. It's a flaw.

One that could be worked on, and he'd then be twice the player he is now. But he's not willing to do that, which i personally find to be an appalling waste.

m@cc@

Dcully wrote: »

Way to go Savman, grats on the most intelligent response ever :rolleyes:

The ironing is delicious.

Mikeyt086

Xavi6 wrote: »

TBH I have no idea why Robinho was even mentioned in this thread. AFAIK he wasn't playing today, and has nothing to do with this thread.

Unless someone was merely having a cheap dig.....but that'd never happen.

I detect sarcasm Xavi so i want to clear up that im not having a go at you or Man City.

But you cant base your criticism on Ronaldo on a "What if"... His goals are still there so he should continue doing what he is doing.

Xavi6

I think it'll be interesting to see if those defending his attitude in this thread will do the very same next time he wants a bumper pay increase or is discussing a move abroad behind United's back.

Will the "that's just the way he is" line suffice then? I doubt it.

Fenix

whatawaster wrote: »

Of course every United fan should be glad he was on the pitch today. But he can be on the pitch, do all the good things he does, but still try harder. He doesn't even need to track back, just chase the ball down more and hassle defenders more. If he put as much effort into improving his attitude as he did into practising free kicks and other techniques then he'd be nearly as good as Messi.

I think someone made the point earlier in the thread (PHB?), if Ronaldo had of chased down every ball, got back to help the full back when villa were in possession etc etc would he have had the energy to be Utds biggest threat and most compotent posesser of the ball ? In the nervous time remaining after Kikos wondergoal I seem to recall him picking the ball up in his own half, running it to the villa byline and winning a throw (iirc). Who dosn't get frustrated when things aren't going well for thier team ? And is that teams fans wondering why such a player isnt showing signs of furstration or caring ? Maybe they will be happy the player is keeping his positive attitude, shame about thier team playin ****.

Fenix

Xavi6 wrote: »

I think it'll be interesting to see if those defending his attitude in this thread will do the very same next time he wants a bumper pay increase or is discussing a move abroad behind United's back.

Will the "that's just the way he is" line suffice then? I doubt it.

I'd be glad to see him get a new contract this summer, put an end to the Real Madrid bull****.

In any case, I've been defending his footballing attributes on the pitch. You're now talking about somthing else.

JerryHandbag

Christ almighty 2 hours later and I've just about calmed down from that finish, only caught the last 15 minutes and what a finish it was! MACHEDA you little beaut....right up there with Steve Bruce in 93, 2 injury time goals against the Pool in 99....

League titles are won and lost on things like that, come on United push on and wrap this thing up once and for all before I suffer death from a persistant case of 'stoppage time last gasp goal disorder'

Yossi Benayoun, anything you can do....

ghouldaddy07

Amazing game,felt the entire spectrum of emotions today watching it.

While Ronaldo's antics can drive me up the wall at times he stepped up to the plate when he was needed. Fair play to ferguson for throwing on Welbeck and Macheda. What a goal to get on your debut at such an important time in the season.

It was great to see the pool supporters reactions when macheda's scored, fairly similar to what I was like yesterday when yossi scored.

_blank_

Moderator, can you move the "Ronaldo attitude debate" to another thread?

jaykay74

_blank_

er...that's Evans