Puppy comes INSIDE to pee & poo!!!

misssaucie

My 4 month old Shih Tzu (Male) is a disaster to try to house train. I got a dog flap put on the back door to encourage more business to be done outside but the mad little thing comes INSIDE, by passes the kitchen tiles, the training mat in the kitchen, the training mat in the hall and the training mat in the sitting room and goes onto the hall or sitting room carpet to pee and poo!!! I'm at the end of my tether and nearly broke from buying puppy training pads. Crate training is not an option for me and I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips??? All the books advise against rubbing their noses in it so I'm not keen to do that either, but does it work .....

pwd

Don't rub his nose in it; it would be disgusting and horrible.

KeeM

I think you may have to rub his nose in it... Maybe just try rubbing his nose gently in the pee for a few seconds and then show him out the back and leave him there for a bit. Do it a few times and he should get the message.

nervous_twitch

We also had a Shih Tzu puppy who had the same problem; our tactic was to lay a newspaper on the floor, and every time we saw him doing his business, we would run over, lift him up (mid-toilet, a tad messy perhaps) and put him on this newspaper. Slowly he got used to the idea of associating the newspaper with the toilet, and then we just began putting it outside. Eventually he concluded that the magic should happen nowhere else but outdoors.

Also, if he manages to do it without you noticing, which will probably happen, take him to the mess and let him know you are less than impressed. Dont be aggressive and certainly don't rub his nose in it (!), but you can be stern and let him know that you are not happy.

I assume you're letting him out frequently enough and at the right times? Remember, the first few times he goes outside, he should be praised, patted and congratulated This is how he'll learn.

nervous_twitch

KeeM wrote: »

I think you may have to rub his nose in it... Maybe just try rubbing his nose gently in the pee for a few seconds and then show him out the back and leave him there for a bit. Do it a few times and he should get the message.

Because thats how most of us have been toilet trained :rolleyes:

Do not do this; its unnecessary, cruel and quite simply unintelligent.

andreac

DO NOT RUB THE DOGS NOSE IN IT!!
This teaches the dog nothing and will only make the dog scared. Unless you catch the dog in the act and say no, there is no point in giving out to the dog as he/she will not know why they are being given out to.

What you need to do is go back to basics, and start toilet training all over again. Positive encouragement and rewarding the dog for doing it outside is the way to go.
If you catch the dog going inside, just say no and pick him up and bring him outside.
Just because you have the flap, he doesnt know that he has to go outside to do his business unless he has been taught to do this.

Try restricting his area that hes allowed in inside the house.

Most dogs wont be toilet trained at 7 months either so you need to give him time, my dog was 7 months before he was fully toilet trained.

Unless you trained the dog from a young age you need to go back to basics, the pup doesnt just know he has to go outside, you need to teach him that.

biggybum

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Because thats how most of us have been toilet trained :rolleyes:

Do not do this; its unnecessary, cruel and quite simply unintelligent.

I think your wrong myself, i've had 3 dogs trained the old fashioned way, by rubbing their noses in it. Yes its disgusting but if your nose was rubbed in your pee would you be inclined to chance it again ?? The best method is to bring your puppy out every half hour regardless of whether they need to or not just to get them used to it. Paper should only be used in moderation and gradually take bits of it away as they get older !!

cos!!

KeeM wrote: »

I think you may have to rub his nose in it... Maybe just try rubbing his nose gently in the pee for a few seconds and then show him out the back and leave him there for a bit. Do it a few times and he should get the message.

This only encourages the dog to hide where they have gone to the toilet, so can make the problem a lot worse

andreac

Dogs dont know to not pee/poo inside by rubbing their nose in it. Its cruel an unnecessary, you might have trained dogs that way, but its wrong.

Thats an old wives tale that people think works, actually it can make the dog scared and pee/poo in areas that cannot be found easy in the house.

No book or dog trainer will recommend this method, why? because its cruel and wrong, end of.

biggybum

andreac wrote: »

Dogs dont know to not pee/poo inside by rubbing their nose in it. Its cruel an unnecessary, you might have trained dogs that way, but its wrong.

Thats an old wives tale that people think works, actually it can make the dog scared and pee/poo in areas that cannot be found easy in the house.

No book or dog trainer will recommend this method, why? because its cruel and wrong, end of.

No offecnce but if it worked on my three dogs i don't really need someone else's advice be it a trainer or a book !! Different strokes for different folks, there are no golden rules here. You may see it as cruel i personally dont tbh and i would'nt do it to my little dotes if i did. If there was one right way of doing things with amimals then they would'nt be open to discussion

KeeM

I've had well over 30 dogs in my home in my 23yr young life and rubbing their noses in it is the way to go! Only going on what I know works...
Dogs do not like to live in their waste hence going in the house. If this is let happen they become spoilt and will continue to go to the toilet wherever suits them... They need light punishment! Dogs want a master and respect the person who takes the upper hand with them.

Once ya get him to go outside, remember to clean the garden every so often for him too.

KeeM

andreac wrote: »

Dogs dont know to not pee/poo inside by rubbing their nose in it. Its cruel an unnecessary, you might have trained dogs that way, but its wrong.

Thats an old wives tale that people think works, actually it can make the dog scared and pee/poo in areas that cannot be found easy in the house.

No book or dog trainer will recommend this method, why? because its cruel and wrong, end of.

I've trained dogs and rubbing their noses in it is very much recommended... It will not frighten them in any shape or form, it's just a way for people to communicate with their dogs. And it does work. There's no need to be rough, you're just showing them it's not acceptable to go indoors.

pwd

KeeM wrote: »

I've had well over 30 dogs in my home in my 23yr young life and rubbing their noses in it is the way to go! Only going on what I know works...
Dogs do not like to live in their waste hence going in the house. If this is let happen they become spoilt and will continue to go to the toilet wherever suits them... They need light punishment! Dogs want a master and respect the person who takes the upper hand with them.

Once ya get him to go outside, remember to clean the garden every so often for him too.

humans are sophisticated enough to train a dog without abusing it

KeeM

pwd wrote: »

humans are sophisticated enough to train a dog without abusing it

Ah will you Shhh... It's not abuse but your milarky is abuse to my eyes. It's painful when people give "advice" on things they know nothing about!

Rubbing dogs noses in their waste is not abuse, it's a training tactic! So stop with this "cruelty" crap.

ISDW

rubbing their nose in it is not recommended by any reputable trainer or behaviourist. Not only can it have the effect outlined by andreac, but it can also damage their sense of smell.

Toilet training takes a lot of time, and a lot of work, perservere with it. I would shut the dog flap when you are trying to get him to go outside, so that he can't bolt back inside.

Mr. Frost

KeeM wrote: »

Ah will you Shhh... It's not abuse but your milarky is abuse to my eyes. It's painful when people give "advice" on things they know nothing about!

Rubbing dogs noses in their waste is not abuse, it's a training tactic! So stop with this "cruelty" crap.

Yeah everything is 'abuse' these days ffs!

Rub his nose in it, he'll be trained in a week. My dogs were.

KeeM

ISDW wrote: »

rubbing their nose in it is not recommended by any reputable trainer or behaviourist. Not only can it have the effect outlined by andreac, but it can also damage their sense of smell.

Toilet training takes a lot of time, and a lot of work, perservere with it. I would shut the dog flap when you are trying to get him to go outside, so that he can't bolt back inside.

It most certainly can NOT damage their sense of smell. Ridiculous!!!

Someone is looking for help here regarding their pet and is being served with alot of pathetic crap from others who have no idea how to take care of animals obviously...
Closing the dog flap - Fantastic idea! But the other nonsense about damaging sense of smell, making them worse for excreting on themselves, etc. - A complete farce!!!

There is no cruelty in rubbing their noses in it. We're not suggesting you shove it in... Just lighty rub it against it and shoo them outside so they know it's not allowed.

pwd

I've had dogs and worked with dogs. Never felt the need to rub sh!t/p!ss in their faces. But sorry my post offended you here's an amended version where I take out that nasty abuse word that bothers you: Most humans are sophisticated enough to train dogs without rubbing sh!t in their faces.

KeeM

pwd wrote: »

I've had dogs and worked with dogs. Never felt the need to rub sh!t/p!ss in their faces. But sorry my post offended you here's an amended version where I take out that nasty abuse word that bothers you: Most humans are sophisticated enough to train dogs without rubbing sh!t in their faces.

Oh christ no, I wasn't suggesting their whole face... Just the nose!!! Silly me.

hadook

KeeM wrote: »

I've trained dogs and rubbing their noses in it is very much recommended... It will not frighten them in any shape or form, it's just a way for people to communicate with their dogs. And it does work. There's no need to be rough, you're just showing them it's not acceptable to go indoors.

I've housetrained puppies and adult dogs without once ever having to do that. I've had foster dogs straight from the pound who were 100% reliable within a couple of weeks and both my collie and dane were completely housetrained as 16 week old puppies even though I didn't expect 100% from them at that age.

The secret to housetraining is to make the dog understand that you want him to pee or poo outside. This is very simply accomplished by taking the dog outside after every single meal and at regular intervals and praising the dog when he pees or poos. Dogs want to please and if you make it clear what you want them to do then they'll do it.

I think the problem here is that the owner isn't home all of the time to supervise the dog and is expecting the dog to understand that outside is where is should go without clearly demonstrating that to the dog. Looking at it from the dogs perspective - why go outside? It's cold, it's wet, it's dark and there's a lovely spot with soft carpet for his bum inside. Rubbing his nose in pee or giving out when you get home to a pile of poo just teaches the dog that when you get home you're angry. How is the dog supposed to connect the pee it did several hours ago to your feelings right now?

OP - it's time to go back to basics. Treat your dog like the small puppy that he is and take him outside frequently for toilet breaks. The trick is not to interact with him until he's done his business and then praise like a mad thing. Repeat. Also, don't leave him alone so that he can just wander into the sitting room to poo - when you're home use a long lead if needed and keep him close by so that you know when he needs to go out. At night restrict his access to only one room (and if you can't then you do need to seriously look at crate training) with training pads and first thing it's out to do the pee'n'poo praise routine. Repeat repeat repeat - dog will figure out what you're on about.

andreac

KeeM wrote: »

It most certainly can NOT damage their sense of smell. Ridiculous!!!


There is no cruelty in rubbing their noses in it. We're not suggesting you shove it in... Just lighty rub it against it and shoo them outside so they know it's not allowed.

Yes there is cruelty, god what century are you living in?? why would you feel the need to rub a dogs nose in its own excrement and urine, its disgusting and totally un necessary.

Rubbing a dogs nose in it is not training it, its scaring the poor dog into not going or hiding it somewhere it wont be seen. How do you think the dog feels when you do this?? Yes they are animals, but theres ways to do things without being cruel.
Dogs can be trained with positive and rewarding methods, not cruel ones.

andreac

KeeM wrote: »

I've trained dogs and rubbing their noses in it is very much recommended... It will not frighten them in any shape or form, it's just a way for people to communicate with their dogs. And it does work. There's no need to be rough, you're just showing them it's not acceptable to go indoors.

Exactly how is this communicating with your dog? and how does the actually rubbing in it show that its wrong?

kassie

What planet are ye ppl living on! Thats dog "training" for cave men, the dog will learn to associate going to the toilet with being punished which makes toileting a worrying time for the dog

To Quote Hadook

The secret to housetraining is to make the dog understand that you want him to pee or poo outside. This is very simply accomplished by taking the dog outside after every single meal and at regular intervals and praising the dog when he pees or poos. Dogs want to please and if you make it clear what you want them to do then they'll do it.


Time, patience, attention and lots and lots of praise will house train any dog!

Enii

We had our Shi Tzu trained in a few days. We just gave him a treat every time he went for a pee outside. He soon got the msg......even tho he is not the smartest!!!

Bribes are best!

Call me Socket

Wow!! I have to say this thread is so educational...I thought elderly farmers were the only ones left who shoved their dog's nose into its own sh1t, but no, there are loads of you STILL believing that this is right! I'm really gobsmacked!

misssaucie wrote: »

All the books advise against rubbing their noses in it so I'm not keen to do that either, but does it work .....

If it did work they wouldn't be advising against it.
If you shove your pup's nose into its poo, the only message he will get is that you are the one with an issue, that you have some problem with him going to the toilet. He won't realise that the location is the problem, only that relieving himself is.

misssaucie wrote: »

the mad little thing comes INSIDE, by passes the kitchen tiles, the training mat in the kitchen, the training mat in the hall and the training mat in the sitting room and goes onto the hall or sitting room carpet to pee and poo!!!

Why do you stand by and watch him on his tour of the house, knowing well that he intends to soil on the carpet? Confine him to the kitchen until he is fully toilet trained, at least then a mop and some tissue can quickly remedy the accident.

KeeM wrote: »

Ah will you Shhh... It's not abuse but your milarky is abuse to my eyes. It's painful when people give "advice" on things they know nothing about!

Rubbing dogs noses in their waste is not abuse, it's a training tactic! So stop with this "cruelty" crap.

KeeM, do you have children? Or do you know anyone with children? Would you not agree that punishing a child when he soils himself is non productive? And before you point it out- I know dogs are not children, but reward based toilet training works as well for dogs as it does for kids. I have 3 kids and 4 dogs, all of which are fully toilet trained without once having to shove any of the 7 noses into sh1t. It is abuse to do that to a dog, have a go of it yourself and see how pleasant it is.
You're right on one thing....It's painful when people give "advice" on things they know nothing about...you take the biscuit on that. Your method of toilet 'training' is very outdated, and has been proved by experts and professionals to be damaging to a dog's emotional wellbeing.

People can't be expected to know everything about training a dog, we're all ignorant in at least a few areas, but when you're given valid reasons on why it's wrong to force a dog's nose into sh1t, and you reply with an argument- then your lack of knowledge is not ignorance, it's pure stupidity and narrow mindedness.
Yeah, there are many different methods floating about in books, NOT ONE of them written in the past 20 years will recommend you toilet train in that manner.


I still can't believe people condone using that method.
And to think- they walk among us!;)

abouttobebanned

A couple of people on this thread, and in this forum, really need a reality check. These are dogs...if rubbing their noses in their urine works, then do it! I'll say again, they're dogs! They sniff **** all over the place, they've even been known to eat **** of the ground, they lick other dog's asses...they generally do disgusting things...don't tell me that it's abuse if someone was to use this method.

I've also read in many parts of this forum "If it's too cold for you to be outside, then it's too cold for your dog" FFS Aye so I should take him to bed with me should i....

Anyway, I digress...

Call me Socket

But why do it that way if a much kinder way works???? There are methods to choose from, so what's the point in picking the more controversial, more complicated, more time consuming one?

As for "I've also read in many parts of this forum "If it's too cold for you to be outside, then it's too cold for your dog" FFS Aye so I should take him to bed with me should i...." - that bears no relevance to toilet training but since you've brought it up.... It depends on the breed of dog. I wouldn't leave a Chinese Crested out in the cold, but a Malamute could cope fine. A lot of breeds have a double coat and are far better equipped to handle cold than us humans, so I agree that statement is partly wrong....it's not as black and white as that- it depends on the breed.

Bluefrog

I say back to basics as well. 4 months is still very young and only the start of when dogs begin to physically get bladder control.

Confine the dog to the kitchen unless you are closely supervising it. Lose the training mats and newspapers - in my opinion they only confuse the animal - they say to the pup that sometimes its OK to eliminate inside but sometimes it is not - why introduce that complication?

Be clear from day one - elimination is for outside. Take the pup out every half hour during the day, 5 minutes after a meal, first thing in the morning and last thing at night. Take them to the same location, on the leash if you have to, to stop them wondering off and losing concentration and wait until there is elimination and then praise wildly. Obviously keep the area outside where they 'perform' clean. Assuming you have a pretty regular daily routine, over time you'll start to see the pup's pattern, when they are more likely to need to go and you can anticipate to cut down on the waiting time outside - at least the weather is improving now - I went through this last December. As time goes on, the pup will grasp why it is being brought there too and will also want to get the task done as quickly as possible.

For accidents inside, if you see it happening, take the dog outside straight away. If you don't catch them in the act, just clean it up and don't make an issue of it with the dog. If the pup is confined to the tiled kitchen then the cleanup effort is minimised. Cause and effect is a here and now thing for a dog so recriminations for past deeds are a waste of time and energy. If the dog is taken out regularly enough, accidents will be rare anyway and happen even less over time as it starts to associate the place outside with eliminating.

Shoving their nose in it is not necessary to get the dog trained so why do it? Taking the dog outside frequently and waitng for it to perform is a time commitment but that's what you signed up for when you got the pup so suck it up and don't take your impatience out on the pup.

As time goes on, watch the pup for signs of asking to go outside - they won't always be obvious and yell - my pup would just stand at the door and if I didn't notice pretty quckly - cleanup time. I think too that the dog flap is just another complication for the pup at this point For now, make the trips outside quality time for you and the pup.

If you take this on consistently, your life will get easier straight away and you will be less stressed and more likely to enjoy this stage of your pup's development. It will be only a matter of weeks before the pup starts getting the idea.

Enjoy the pup, they don't stay that way for long.

misssaucie

Oh to be like you and know it all!!! It must be amazing to be so perfect, you see in the real world people sometimes have to leave a room downstairs to maybe pop upstairs and thus puppy could decide to use his flap to come inside...do you honestly think I sit at the kitchen table and WATCH him soil the carpet!!! Duh!!! All I wanted was some advice on how to train a young puppy, not a lecture on how I should monitor the pup 24 7. And how rude to ask KeeM if he/she has children. This is an Animal/Pet forum. Get over yourself.

Call me Socket wrote: »

Wow!! I have to say this thread is so educational...I thought elderly farmers were the only ones left who shoved their dog's nose into its own sh1t, but no, there are loads of you STILL believing that this is right! I'm really gobsmacked!


If it did work they wouldn't be advising against it.
If you shove your pup's nose into its poo, the only message he will get is that you are the one with an issue, that you have some problem with him going to the toilet. He won't realise that the location is the problem, only that relieving himself is.


Why do you stand by and watch him on his tour of the house, knowing well that he intends to soil on the carpet? Confine him to the kitchen until he is fully toilet trained, at least then a mop and some tissue can quickly remedy the accident.





KeeM, do you have children? Or do you know anyone with children? Would you not agree that punishing a child when he soils himself is non productive? And before you point it out- I know dogs are not children, but reward based toilet training works as well for dogs as it does for kids. I have 3 kids and 4 dogs, all of which are fully toilet trained without once having to shove any of the 7 noses into sh1t. It is abuse to do that to a dog, have a go of it yourself and see how pleasant it is.
You're right on one thing....It's painful when people give "advice" on things they know nothing about...you take the biscuit on that. Your method of toilet 'training' is very outdated, and has been proved by experts and professionals to be damaging to a dog's emotional wellbeing.

People can't be expected to know everything about training a dog, we're all ignorant in at least a few areas, but when you're given valid reasons on why it's wrong to force a dog's nose into sh1t, and you reply with an argument- then your lack of knowledge is not ignorance, it's pure stupidity and narrow mindedness.
Yeah, there are many different methods floating about in books, NOT ONE of them written in the past 20 years will recommend you toilet train in that manner.


I still can't believe people condone using that method.
And to think- they walk among us!;)

ISDW

misssaucie wrote: »

Oh to be like you and know it all!!! It must be amazing to be so perfect, you see in the real world people sometimes have to leave a room downstairs to maybe pop upstairs and thus puppy could decide to use his flap to come inside...do you honestly think I sit at the kitchen table and WATCH him soil the carpet!!! Duh!!! All I wanted was some advice on how to train a young puppy, not a lecture on how I should monitor the pup 24 7. And how rude to ask KeeM if he/she has children. This is an Animal/Pet forum. Get over yourself.

Could you not maybe close the kitchen door before you go upstairs, so that if the pup does come in through the flap, then he can't get into the rest of the house? Or maybe close dog flap?

I'm afraid that with a young pup, housetraining is almost a 24/7 task, otherwise it can take a long time to get it done. From reading your last post, it would seem that the pup is outside a fair bit by itself, so when he does go to the toilet outside, does anybody see it, and praise him? The quickest way (but not the easiest) to toilet train is to take them outside and praise them like mad and give them a treat when they go to the toilet outside. Now that might mean 10/11 o'clock at night in the rain, but there does have to be consistency there, so that everytime he goes outside he gets told its the right thing to do. If he's going outside and nobody is praising him, but then he goes inside and gets a reaction, he will probably want to keep going inside, because any reaction and attention is better than none.

andreac

misssaucie wrote: »

Oh to be like you and know it all!!! It must be amazing to be so perfect, you see in the real world people sometimes have to leave a room downstairs to maybe pop upstairs and thus puppy could decide to use his flap to come inside...do you honestly think I sit at the kitchen table and WATCH him soil the carpet!!! Duh!!! All I wanted was some advice on how to train a young puppy, not a lecture on how I should monitor the pup 24 7. And how rude to ask KeeM if he/she has children. This is an Animal/Pet forum. Get over yourself.

You came on here asking for advice and you got it, a mixture of good and bad and what do you do? insult the people that gave it to you. Dont bother coming on here looking for advice again if thats how you react to people who do help you out.

No one claims to be know it all, they are giving the advice that works best for them and many others they know that have used the method they are advising on.

You didnt get a lecture on monitoring the pup 24/7, you got advice on how best to go about toilet training.

Puppies are very demanding and do take a lot of hard work. Try closing the flap if you dont want the pup coming in, it sounds like you just want this pup to learn all by itself, when thats never going to happen.

So why dont you take some of the advice, not lectures, on board, and put some effort into toilet training. Its called training because it takes time and effort, and a young pup will take a while to train, so be patient.