Camp Quest - Atheist camp?

Dave!

http://www.camp-quest.org.uk/

Yo,

Does anyone find this a bit disconcerting...?

CQUK is the first residential summer camp for the children of atheists, agnostics, humanists, freethinkers and all those who embrace a naturalistic rather than supernatural world view.

...

The hallmark of any week at Camp Quest is the invisible unicorn challenge. As you may know, there are two invisible unicorns who live at Camp Quest, but who cannot be seen, heard, felt, smelt and do not leave a trace. All counsellors are staunch believers in these unicorns. Any child who can successfully prove that the invisible unicorns do not exist is rewarded with a prize - a £10 Darwin note signed by Richard Dawkins himself! This challenge runs throughout the week.


I thought it might be a parody of Jesus Camp or somethin.... but apparently not

Is this not weird?

Dave!

Dave! wrote: »

Is this not weird?

Any brainwashing camp is weird

kiffer

Considering the Scouts Official stance on religion is basically no atheists (or at least don't ask don't tell) I'm not surprised that such camps crop up... but I this might be making a bit to big a deal of it.

That said...
Philosophy for Children (P4C): Good, basic philosophy, good ground work helps everyone...
pseudoscience: Good, Sometimes it slips our mind as to how easy it is for some people to have trouble telling the difference between pseudoscience and science...
astronomy: Good, Stargazing is fun, space is interesting...
evolution: :-) I really wish this didn't need to be listed as it's own subject, and not just as part of biology, nature studies or such.
critical thinking: Important for all concerned.
nature games: As long as they're not Naturist games
the famous Invisible Unicorns Challenge: I'm not so sure what to make of this activity...

Valmont

Kids don't care about these things, I know I didn't when I was that age. I'd be opposed to anything that serves to indoctrinate children one way or the other. I'm of the make-up-your-own-mind school. Atheist camp, christ.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Hmmm, its a bit odd.

The darwin note unicorn challenge really does seem very like a parody, and hopefully its unwinnable. Would be horrified if everyone won it for saying something like "its not scientific"

Can't wait to see the chick publishing response tract.

Zillah

Dave! wrote: »

The hallmark of any week at Camp Quest is the invisible unicorn challenge. As you may know, there are two invisible unicorns who live at Camp Quest, but who cannot be seen, heard, felt, smelt and do not leave a trace. All counsellors are staunch believers in these unicorns. Any child who can successfully prove that the invisible unicorns do not exist is rewarded with a prize - a £10 Darwin note signed by Richard Dawkins himself! This challenge runs throughout the week.

Haha, that's awesome. I think this is a great idea. Equipping a whole generation to grasp why the whole "You can't prove God doesn't exist" argument is meaningless.

They do need to keep a light touch to prevent it from becoming creepy though. I'd need to know a lot more before I judge.

Hivemind187

I dunno. I can see a lot more positive stuff coming out of camp quest than out of say, "hell house" or any of the "do as we say or you'll ****in burn" religious camps.

Camp was ALWAYS creepy anyway. The hired sex offenders counsellors were always so chirpy it actually made you feel physically sick. The activities were inane or mundane (playing football is something we can do at home you jerk!). The food was mostly compressed hog-anus. All in all a none too enjoyable experience to have topped off with a dollop of fire and brimstone.

So if one camp tries to instil a sense of discovery, exploration and insufferable questioning and analysis of answers given then I'm all for it.

Beisdes ... a brainwashed army of atheistic kiddies would do wonders when the eventual open war between robindch Atheists and PDN religious types comes around

Zillah

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Beisdes ... a brainwashed army of atheistic kiddies would do wonders when the eventual open war between robindch Atheists and PDN religious types comes around

I dunno, they have so much more experience at it than we do

Rev Hellfire

I can see a whole new generation growing up and rebelling against their parents, perhaps this is a cunning ploy by theists for more fundamental recruits.
I can see the anti-Zillah coming out of this

studiorat

A Unicorn???

Goduznt Xzst

studiorat wrote: »

A Unicorn???

They tried it with Santa first, but it turned out most of the Atheist parents still wanted their children to believe he exists, and wheren't too happy when their kids came home and they no longer had a way of keeping them behaved when the inlaws where around for Christmas

PDN

studiorat wrote: »

A Unicorn???

Because of the declining moral standards of young people today (I can't be arsed linking to whatever thread has meandered into that territory) young people might actually have a lion in the attic.

Galvasean

Wahts the odds one of the kids will find a mutilated deer carcass, drags it back to camp yelling, "I won I won!"

kiffer

Galvasean wrote: »

Wahts the odds one of the kids will find a mutilated deer carcass, drags it back to camp yelling, "I won I won!"

Ahhh but that unicorn fails important parts of the test... it's not invisible, it's red and brown... it's just a False Unicorn...

PDN

kiffer wrote: »

Ahhh but that unicorn fails important parts of the test... it's not invisible, it's red and brown... it's just a False Unicorn...

Invisible unicorns become visible when they die. I saw it on a programme on National Geographic.

Galvasean

kiffer wrote: »

Ahhh but that unicorn fails important parts of the test... it's not invisible, it's red and brown... it's just a False Unicorn...

He was invisible, but his cloaking device wears off once killed.

kiffer

Galvasean wrote: »

He was invisible, but his cloaking device wears off once killed.

Sorry but the Campers are fundamental Pink Unicornists ... when killed Pink Unicorns explode in a shower of coloured quarks...

ShooterSF

I don't know, on one side I'd rather it just left out religion and focus on having proper no hidden meaning fun. The kids spend 9 months in school can they not have some childhood? On the other hand even if you don't believe in God your kids are likely to meet the idea in school in this country if they don't live near these new schools (forget the name) and a counter balance might be good.

Thinking over it, I am atm against the idea. Us in our mid-20 grew up in a time when being openly atheist in one's teens was for the most a phase or worse, however we managed to make up our own mind. Hell I didn't have to go to no camp to find out Santa doesn't exist. I have faith in the next generations intelligence along with the fact that more and more will be raised as free to decide themselves and will share their beliefs with other kids.
The most important thing in life is not religion but learning to enjoy yourself and have fun. This is where the focus needs to be.

Zillah

studiorat wrote: »

A Unicorn???

Yes.

Zillah

ShooterSF wrote: »

The most important thing in life is not religion but learning to enjoy yourself and have fun.

When we're talking about Catholicism these two are often mutually exclusive.

studiorat

Zillah wrote: »

Yes.

underground ubiquity?

Phototoxin

its not fair coz since magic doesn't exist on this plane you cannot have a wizard with purge invisiblity so the unicorns get +2 defence and +2 to attack against the kids. The wee things don't have a chance!!

Dades

Bizzare methinks. There's a market for every whim.

Húrin

Richard Dawkins' personality cult is on the ascent. The camp seems to be negative. Are they training an 'army' of atheists to argue religion out of people?

Fanny Cradock

I would find this slightly less odd than the Creationism theme park.

lostexpectation

if most the camps about are religious then its fine to have an atheist one, i'd prefer to go to band camp ;p

Zombrex

Read about this in this weeks Economist.

Personally I think it is a great idea.

According to the Economist the idea of camps are an American concept that stem from the long school holidays and short working holidays in America. May seem a bit creepy to us in Europe but can't see it being any worse than Irish college (*shudder*)

The camps are presented as atheists camps but they actually take people of all religions (unlike many religious camps) and don't instruct people that there is no god. In fact "god" is not mentioned, at least according to the Economist.

So they seem to have their priorities straight, it is not about telling children there is no god but equiping them with the mental reasoning to question supernatural ideas properly.

And again can't be worse than Irish college :pac:

ChocolateSauce

A bit odd, but I don't really see the problem with it. Teaching children how to question the invisible is a valuable skill, and the camp appears to insist it does not claim there is no god, only to question the claim that there is. Furthermore, they don't accept children under 8, which is around (if not slightly past) the age most children start questioning what they're told.

It is especially soft-touch when compared to most bible-camps, where the camps insist their version of events is divine, (sometimes literally) true, and that other people are wrong. Some even go so far as to drill hate and lies about non-Christians into their young minds, not to mention (in the US) a godly-inspired patriotism.

Anyway, check it out! I found a photograph of the invisible pink unicorn! It's right beside that hairy pony:

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Science/Images/Content/mongolian-steppe-737086-sw.jpg

ChocolateSauce

Húrin wrote: »

Richard Dawkins' personality cult is on the ascent. The camp seems to be negative. Are they training an 'army' of atheists to argue religion out of people?

Even if they are, it seems a lot less sinister than many places in the middle east where they train armies of young people to bomb the sh!t out of people.
Muslim fanatics blow people up.
Christian fanatics murder abortion doctors.
Atheist "fanatics" write books.

Goduznt Xzst

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Atheist "fanatics" write books.

What about Stalin... he was an Atheist fanatic? *I miss the old days *

ChocolateSauce

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

What about Stalin... he was an Atheist fanatic? *I miss the old days *

Huh? I thought you were PDN for a second there! No, he was a fanatic who was an atheist.

Goduznt Xzst

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Huh? I thought you were PDN for a second there! No, he was a fanatic who was an atheist.

WHAAA!!! :eek: you've just shattered my ideological bubble. I only turned to Atheism because I thought I'd be in the same gang as the great forward thinkers such as Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot.

I was thinking about sending any future children of mine to this camp but if they aren't going to teach them that abortions are awesome, eugenics is hip and marxist and communist dogma is what all the cool kids read about on their kindles then I think I'll give it a miss. This isn't the Atheism that I signed up for.

drkpower

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Even if they are, it seems a lot less sinister than many places in the middle east where they train armies of young people to bomb the sh!t out of people.
Muslim fanatics blow people up.
Christian fanatics murder abortion doctors.
Atheist "fanatics" write books.

Just because it is less bad does not mean it is good!!

If there are no non-religous camps available to parents of agnostics/atheists, then good on them for organising camps where religon is not an issue. If, however, there are non-religous camps avaialable, and this is a camp specifically for atheists/agnostics, then that seems to me to be entirely counterproductive. If God doesnt exist, why define your 'camp' with reference to God at all......?

ChocolateSauce

drkpower wrote: »

Just because it is less bad does not mean it is good!!

If there are no non-religous camps available to parents of agnostics/atheists, then good on them for organising camps where religon is not an issue. If, however, there are non-religous camps avaialable, and this is a camp specifically for atheists/agnostics, then that seems to me to be entirely counterproductive. If God doesnt exist, why define your 'camp' with reference to God at all......?

I was speaking hypothetically....they really aren't. :pac: But yes, I agree with you that if they were it wouldn't be good. The camps are not for atheist/agnostics; they accept anyone and the emphasis is on critical thought, not theology.

Goduznt Xzst

drkpower wrote: »

If God doesnt exist, why define your 'camp' with reference to God at all......?

Ideally we shouldn't have to but Religion is still prevalent enough that I can see why many parents would view it more as protecting them against having the religious guff from the indoctrinated children they will encounter in school.

Teaching a child the reasoning senses to deal with the evangelical Christians is no different in my mind to teaching them to look both ways when crossing the road.

drkpower

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Ideally we shouldn't have to but Religion is still prevalent enough that I can see why many parents would view it more as protecting them against having the religious guff from the indoctrinated children they will encounter in school.

Teaching a child the reasoning senses to deal with the evangelical Christians is no different in my mind to teaching them to look both ways when crossing the road.

No; teach them the reasoning senses to deal with every issue; stop framing everything by reference to religon. This is the problem with many atheists - everything they do is framed by religon; just ignore it.

ChocolateSauce

drkpower wrote: »

No; teach them the reasoning senses to deal with every issue; stop framing everything by reference to religon. This is the problem with many atheists - everything they do is framed by religon; just ignore it.

It is hard to ignore it when it is institutionalised, and also when people make decisions based not on reason but on the teachings of bronze age barbarians, especially when these people are the leaders of countries.

Goduznt Xzst

drkpower wrote: »

just ignore it.

Good luck with that. I can see where you are coming from though, ignoring a problem always resolves it.

drkpower

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

It is hard to ignore it when it is institutionalised, and also when people make decisions based not on reason but on the teachings of bronze age barbarians, especially when these people are the leaders of countries.

Very true; but we are talking about summer camps here.

drkpower

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Good luck with that. I can see where you are coming from though, ignoring a problem always resolves it.

Isnt ignoring God/religon what athesim is about? If you dont believe in something, why pay it any attention?

And people ignoring religon in the past 20 years (coupled with religon's own faux pas') has caused an unprecedented dimunition in its influence. Ignoring it works. And it will continuie to work.

Confronting it will create a monster. Ignoring it will cause it to wither. Religon is a bit like an internet troll, in that way.

ChocolateSauce

drkpower wrote: »

Very true; but we are talking about summer camps here.

Oh. Well in that case I would say mention it, but don't go into it.

Goduznt Xzst

drkpower wrote: »

Isnt ignoring God/religon what athesim is about?

You ignore the religion, but confront the religious. There is a difference.

Tim Robbins

What's this camp position on Santa, I wonder? Does the god of capitalism exist?

Mark Hamill

drkpower wrote: »

Isnt ignoring God/religon what athesim is about? If you dont believe in something, why pay it any attention?

And people ignoring religon in the past 20 years (coupled with religon's own faux pas') has caused an unprecedented dimunition in its influence. Ignoring it works. And it will continuie to work.

Confronting it will create a monster. Ignoring it will cause it to wither. Religon is a bit like an internet troll, in that way.

How exactly do you explain that to a child of 8? People may have been ignoring religion for the last 20 years, but its still in schools and it still influences politics. How do you explain to a child that has to spend 2 or 3 hours a week in religion class that they should ignore it if they dont believe it? If you dont believe in a religion ignore it? Should the child apply that to everything? What about the other subjects they do? Should they ignore maths or science or english too?
Is it not better to give kids the tools to examine all claims made to them and have them not afraid to confront other ideas?

drkpower

Mark Hamill wrote: »

How exactly do you explain that to a child of 8? People may have been ignoring religion for the last 20 years, but its still in schools and it still influences politics. How do you explain to a child that has to spend 2 or 3 hours a week in religion class that they should ignore it if they dont believe it? If you dont believe in a religion ignore it? Should the child apply that to everything? What about the other subjects they do? Should they ignore maths or science or english too?
Is it not better to give kids the tools to examine all claims made to them and have them not afraid to confront other ideas?

This thread is about 'camps', yes....?
If you want to talk about schools, thats a different issue; naturally, my 'ignore the Church' principle would mean that we shouldnt have education provided by religous Orders (or by organised atheists either...).

Flamed Diving

TBH, I'm a bit creeped out with the way this whole Project Atheist thing has been going, of late.

Rev Hellfire

Flamed Diving wrote: »

TBH, I'm a bit creeped out with the way this whole Project Atheist thing has been going, of late.

How so?

Flamed Diving

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

How so?

It seems to be becoming the very thing it ridicules.

ChocolateSauce

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It seems to be becoming the very thing it ridicules.

Religion? There are many things that can superficially resemble religion, like fan clubs, it doesn't mean there is really a deep similarity.

Zombrex

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It seems to be becoming the very thing it ridicules.

It ridicules untestable beliefs in the supernatural that are used as justification for moral authority .. ?

I don't think atheists, in general, ridicule summer camps. :pac:

Flamed Diving

You know what I mean. It's just this whole Dawkins-esque pseudo-religious crap that bothers me. It's just another form of fundamentalism.

I have begun to stray from the flock!