Cut the dole!! Way too many leeches

beggars_bush

I find it ridiculous that the government will not cut the amount of dole paid to people. How many people are leeching the system

we're subsidising people to not work ffs. as well as paying for their accommodation through rent relief. Its a joke

fair enough there are a lot of people who need the €€€€ to survive. But there are so many people on the dole who have never held down a job in their lives. they should be put out working for the tidy towns or something

how many people on the dole are also working a few days for cash - lots. its a disgrace

Zynks

beggars_bush wrote: »

I find it ridiculous that the government will not cut the amount of dole paid to people. How many people are leeching the system

we're subsidising people to not work ffs. as well as paying for their accommodation through rent relief. Its a joke

fair enough there are a lot of people who need the €€€€ to survive. But there are so many people on the dole who have never held down a job in their lives. they should be put out working for the tidy towns or something

how many people on the dole are also working a few days for cash - lots. its a disgrace

Hmmm, so force the ones who need the cash to tighten their belts because other people are abusing the system. Yeah right. Maybe you are proposing the right thing, but for the wrong reasons. Abuse of the system should be greeted with jail time or serious reprimands.

Keith in cork

so you agree some folk need it to survive, yet your answer to leeches is to cut the dole? Or is it to cut for some and not for others? How exactly would you suggest to work that out?

Or is what you mean to say is, there should be more stringent measures taken to show your genuine, activly seeking work and have no other source of income, and regular checks carried out?

Your thread needs a little thought, and rewording.:rolleyes:

mikemac

No probs, can I expect my PRSI to be cut too?

bobbbb

Looks like it wont be cut now anyway.

banshee_bones

beggars_bush wrote: »

as well as paying for their accommodation through rent relief.

Not everyone gets rent relief.

beggars_bush wrote: »

fair enough there are a lot of people who need the €€€€ to survive.

yes there are,in cases where both earners have been let go from their jobs they have a family to support and a mortgage to pay.

beggars_bush wrote: »

But there are so many people on the dole who have never held down a job in their lives.

where did you get that nugget of information? any statistics to back that up? what about the thousands of people who have paid their contribution of PRSI and are currently claiming that back?

beggars_bush wrote: »

they should be put out working for the tidy towns or something

and what about the people in the local county councils that actually do that job? i suppose we should just make them do teh work for free too yeah?

beggars_bush wrote: »

how many people on the dole are also working a few days for cash - lots. its a disgrace

again i would love to know where you find these gems of information? Plenty of people are not on full dole. They work a three day week and are subsidised by the social welfare for the days they do not work.
Admittedly there will always be the few who abuse the system but why should everyone suffer?

Keith in cork

This is a pity, good topic for discussion, but thrown out there in jest.

trackcar

would have agreed with you about 3-4 years ago when we had lots of Irish people on the dole but has tens of thousands of eastern european people coming into this country for work, why were these unemployed Irish people not in the jobs that the eastern europeans were getting, times have changed and we see lots of people who want to work loosing there jobs in companies like Dell & SR technics + people in the building sector, motor trade, accounts, solicitor, truck drivers etc etc

P. Breathnach

Sometimes, when I am feeling evil, I quietly wish that those able-bodied people who occupy parking spaces for the disabled should find themselves qualified for those places.

Likewise, I have a wish about those who attack those who are dependent on social welfare.

AlekSmart

Oh but we don`t like poor oul Beggars_bush`s wording....do we ?

However as with much of the present situation,we know that something must give...the system is stretched beyond breaking point.

Not everyone gets rent relief.

True indeed,BUT a vast amount DO and with little rhyme or reason to it.
Remember this PRAA was removed some time back only to be re-instated by the late Seamus Brennan when he took up the DSFA reins.

His actions were in response to a concerted campaign by various representative bodies and agencies representing the "poor" who were expected to be made homeless should the State cease the payments.

what about the thousands of people who have paid their contribution of PRSI and are currently claiming that back?

Nobody is disagreeing with maintaining the basic principle of Insurance ,but I think the OP is focusing on the VERY substantial numbers of NON Contributors who have been accepted into our system and who are recieving it`s benefits.

(As an aside,I was recently involved in a situation concering an M50 Junction beggar which resulted in some documents falling onto the road,as I helped her retrieve them I could not but help noticing her identification documents which included a Medical Services Card and a DSFA Identity Card,which would tend to show evidence that she was in the benefit chain)

The DSFA is bleeding the States funds away in a misguided effort to maintain peace and quiet amongst the Lower Orders....someday soon that is going to become impossible to continue....!

Lockstep

I could tolerate such tirades in the days of the Celtic Tiger but not these days.

1) There are a lot of people losing their jobs as we speak. These people worked and paid PRSI. Why should their welfare be lowered now?
2) I doubt lowering the dole would have a significant impact on the "leeches". If they're too lazy to work then cutting the dole will not really have much of an impact, it would have to be cut to horrendous levels to theoretically cause any real incentivisation to such people.

Shiny

I would prefer if they just cut the leeches tbh.

Absolutely nothing wrong with someone loosing their
job and needing a bit of support.

I do have a serious problem with the "long term unemployed"
who still can get the dole even when they return to work!

Mr.Micro

The dole would not be an issue if the incompetents at the top and the fat cats had done their jobs right. Most people would be in a job, end of.

is_that_so

banshee_bones wrote: »

where did you get that nugget of information? any statistics to back that up? what about the thousands of people who have paid their contribution of PRSI and are currently claiming that back?

4% is generally recognised as full employment in this part of the world. Anyone in that 4% tends to be either on some form of disability or are deemed "unemployable". Within that group there are those who are effectively welfare scroungers. For some elements in our society welfare payments are seen as a right. There is still no proper system in my view to make people look for work, like say the German system which used to give people a job after a certain length of time. Refusal meant losing benefits.
There is also a phenomenon known as "generational unemployment" which was very common even up to the early 90s, where you had grandparents, parents and children all unemployed together.

My own view is that welfare should be given to those who genuinely need it but it is too high in some areas and really needs some serious review. A lady I know receives over €1000 in various payments, perfectly legally, from the state, to stay at home. Her husband works in the public service and earns above the average industrial wage. As a result of her being laid off they also now save €1500 a month in childcare. We've spoken about this and she herself finds it quite bizarre that aside from the pleasure of spending a lot more time with her kids, various welfare payments are actually leaving them a lot better off. And that to me is completely wrong. There are suggestions that some of it will be cut next year, using a similar type of index-linking that has allowed such payments increase over the last number of years.

P. Breathnach

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The dole would not be an issue if the incompetents at the top and the fat cats had done their jobs right. Most people would be in a job, end of.

Most people are in jobs. Things are bad, but not yet that bad.

Yes, many of our problems are home-grown. But even if we did not have the bursting of the property bubble, we would have severe problems. A lot of the big layoffs in industry would almost certainly have happened anyway, triggered by competition and the international problems. We almost certainly would have lost Dell, Waterford Glass, and SR Technics. Many of the staff reductions in other firms like pharmaceuticals, healthcare products, and motor industry component suppliers were not caused here.

jimmmy

is_that_so wrote: »

My own view is that welfare should be given to those who genuinely need it but it is too high in some areas and really needs some serious review. A lady I know receives over €1000 in various payments, perfectly legally, from the state, to stay at home. Her husband works in the public service and earns above the average industrial wage. As a result of her being laid off they also now save €1500 a month in childcare. We've spoken about this and she herself finds it quite bizarre that aside from the pleasure of spending a lot more time with her kids, various welfare payments are actually leaving them a lot better off. And that to me is completely wrong. There are suggestions that some of it will be cut next year, using a similar type of index-linking that has allowed such payments increase over the last number of years.

I do not doubt you, but can you explain how a lady you know " receives over €1000 in various payments, perfectly legally, from the state "

Shiny

Although if alot of people were cut from the dole who have been scroungers
for years and have become dependent on it, what would happen if they were
cut off ?

They wouldn't find it easy to get a job....result...crime ?

is_that_so

jimmmy wrote: »

I do not doubt you, but can you explain how a lady you know " receives over €1000 in various payments, perfectly legally, from the state "

Unemployment Benefit is c. €800, child benefit and early childcare supplement for 2 kids comes to €300 or so a month.

Mr.Micro

is_that_so wrote: »

My own view is that welfare should be given to those who genuinely need it but it is too high in some areas and really needs some serious review. A lady I know receives over €1000 in various payments, perfectly legally, from the state, to stay at home. Her husband works in the public service and earns above the average industrial wage. As a result of her being laid off they also now save €1500 a month in childcare. We've spoken about this and she herself finds it quite bizarre that aside from the pleasure of spending a lot more time with her kids, various welfare payments are actually leaving them a lot better off. And that to me is completely wrong. There are suggestions that some of it will be cut next year, using a similar type of index-linking that has allowed such payments increase over the last number of years.

If the woman is entitled, which she obvoiusly is then good for her IMO. If TD's can claim expenses up to as much as their salaries without receipts or proof, then its not a problem. Brian Cowen getting paid according to another post, fourth highest in the world...........

at 4. Brian Cowen (Ireland) $341,000, for making our country a shambles in his role as previous Finance minister and now the leader. Why should the ordinary people not get it if they can, or even have a conscience about it, the politicians sure don't ?

Peiking Duck

beggars_bush wrote: »

I find it ridiculous that the government will not cut the amount of dole paid to people. How many people are leeching the system

we're subsidising people to not work ffs. as well as paying for their accommodation through rent relief. Its a joke

fair enough there are a lot of people who need the €€€€ to survive. But there are so many people on the dole who have never held down a job in their lives. they should be put out working for the tidy towns or something

how many people on the dole are also working a few days for cash - lots. its a disgrace

I wonder how you would cope on the dole. Especially if it was cut.

is_that_so

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If the woman is entitled, which she obvoiusly is then good for her IMO. If TD's can claim expenses up to as much as their salaries without receipts or proof, then its not a problem. Brian Cowen getting paid according to another post, fourth highest in the world...........

at 4. Brian Cowen (Ireland) $341,000, for making our country a shambles in his role as previous Finance minister and now the leader. Why should the ordinary people not get it if they can, or even have a conscience about it, the politicians sure don't ?

As you can see from my post she wouldn't disagree nor would I. However my own point is that there is something very wrong with a system that is that so generous that someone not working now has more money than when she was working. Furthermore it does not appear to take into account that there is also an extra income going into the household. Welfare should be designed to support people when they need it and not help generate a lifestyle , which is where overgenerous payments can lead people.

Cowen does get too much but it is a salary for work. I fail to see the connection between an overinflated salary and overgenerous welfare payments. Personally have always felt that this type of argument is hypocritical and merely reinforces the whole culture of graft we all like to rail against.

Mr.Micro

is_that_so wrote: »

Cowen does get too much but it is a salary for work. I fail to see the connection between an overinflated salary and overgenerous welfare payments. Personally have always felt that this type of argument is hypocritical and merely reinforces the whole culture of graft we all like to rail against.

The whole system needs to be looked at both for dole, Politicians salaries, expenses etc for the longer term. Start with the politicians at National and local level.

jimmmy

is_that_so wrote: »

Unemployment Benefit is c. €800, child benefit and early childcare supplement for 2 kids comes to €300 or so a month.

Thanks for that.
Do women whose husbands are working get unemployment benefit ? And what is "early childcare supplement "?

is_that_so

jimmmy wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Do women whose husbands are working get unemployment benefit ? And what is "early childcare supplement "?

Yes they do. It is based on their own employment and runs for 12 months. After that means testing comes in. All of this is very well explained on the Welfare site.

pickarooney

It's amazing the number of people who don't know the basic difference between Jobseeker's (prev. Unemployment) Allowance and Jobseeker's (prev. Unemployment) Benefit.

Darragh29

Well one way or another, I reckon social welfare cuts are coming next Tuesday, I'd say a cut of somewhere between 5% and 10% cut on dole payments will be the order of the day...

mikemac

Split the difference, 7% cut will bring it to about an even number of 190 euro.

That's my predication anyway

jhegarty

pickarooney wrote: »

It's amazing the number of people who don't know the basic difference between Jobseeker's (prev. Unemployment) Allowance and Jobseeker's (prev. Unemployment) Benefit.

Nothing uprising about it at all. Lots of people 35 and under are for the first time in a situation were they can't get a job.

For the last 15 years it's been about not wanting a job , but this has now changed.

mealone43

beggars_bush wrote: »

I find it ridiculous that the government will not cut the amount of dole paid to people. How many people are leeching the system

we're subsidising people to not work ffs. as well as paying for their accommodation through rent relief. Its a joke

fair enough there are a lot of people who need the €€€€ to survive. But there are so many people on the dole who have never held down a job in their lives. they should be put out working for the tidy towns or something

how many people on the dole are also working a few days for cash - lots. its a disgrace

I am 58 and nver on the dole in my life until February this year. Last year alonbe I paid 16000 tax plus PRSI. So I am not entitled to payments? On you nelly. How much have you paid in your life? Hey everybody who makes a purchase is paying taxes and should we have a minimum payment before we can get dole payments?I think not.:mad:

Bottle_of_Smoke

If they do cut it they should also cut minimum wage.

That would create more jobs and more overtime for people doing those jobs.

If I get a jobb in the summer I'll be looking at min wage and I wouldn't have a problem if it went down. I would accept if overtime was given preferably to full time permanent staff

professore

is_that_so wrote: »

4% is generally recognised as full employment in this part of the world. Anyone in that 4% tends to be either on some form of disability or are deemed "unemployable".

Wrong ... most of the 4% are people who have left one job and are going to start another one in a few weeks / months.