Cut the dole!! Way too many leeches

professore

is_that_so wrote: »

Unemployment Benefit is c. €800, child benefit and early childcare supplement for 2 kids comes to €300 or so a month.

You are only entitled to UB if you have worked and it only lasts for 14 months. After that you are means tested. She will get nothing if her husband is working. Is this not right? A lot of people will need some time to adjust their spending and lifestyle if one loses a job, esp a family with young children and probably a big mortgage. Don't know what this "lady's" husband earns but must be north of 100K, they are already rich or they have no mortgage for her to say she doesn't need the money.

professore

mealone43 wrote: »

I am 58 and nver on the dole in my life until February this year. Last year alonbe I paid 16000 tax plus PRSI. So I am not entitled to payments? On you nelly. How much have you paid in your life? Hey everybody who makes a purchase is paying taxes and should we have a minimum payment before we can get dole payments?I think not.:mad:

These people are all students and have never worked in the real world

mealone43

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well one way or another, I reckon social welfare cuts are coming next Tuesday, I'd say a cut of somewhere between 5% and 10% cut on dole payments will be the order of the day...

Would you indeed? Lets cut TD's judges garda soldiers sailors traffic wardens and all public servants by at least 35%. Lets stop sending 900 million to foreign aid. Lets bring our army back from Chad and UN duties. Reduce the army by at least 50%. Shut down the FCA and Slua Muire. Stop costal patrols. Sack all water baliffs as they are only costing money.Ground that private plane the government wasters misuse.Make the TD's produce receipts for their stolen expenses. Send all refugees home. Sack half the doctors as they are not working anway. Now then they can leave the dole alone that most well paid for all their working lives. Go into labour exchanges and make those lazy gits work. In Waterford office they come in as they please, (flexitime, there is no room for that luxury nowadays, so cut that and make them work 40 hours)
Make all public servants earn their keep. As their sick record is the country's highest, then cut their sick pay, that will cure their "sicknesses"
Look at those savings alone:mad::mad::mad:

tolosenc

How about put conditions on the "Job Seekers Allowance":

1. Passports of all to be supported by the payments is surrendered on first receipt of payment and may be collected on the first day they would receive a payment after they have found employment.
2. More rigorous checks implemented to see if people are actually seeking employment, payments after 6 months being refused without evidence of actual job-seeking.
3. ~25 hours a week of community service undertaken by all beneficiaries of the payments not in full time education(ie kids)

This would eliminate a lot unnecessary expenditure, without being unfair, no?

mealone43

obl wrote: »

How about put conditions on the "Job Seekers Allowance":

1. Passports of all to be supported by the payments is surrendered on first receipt of payment and may be collected on the first day they would receive a payment after they have found employment.

2. More rigorous checks implemented to see if people are actually seeking employment, payments after 6 months being refused without evidence of actual job-seeking.
3. ~25 hours a week of community service undertaken by all beneficiaries of the payments not in full time education(ie kids)

This would eliminate a lot unnecessary expenditure, without being unfair, no?

What has a passport to do with it? Some do not have passports
More pressure to be put on waters in Governemnt to create jobs so that people do not have to be harassed to chase jobs that do not exist. Anybody explain to you that our unemployment rate went up to 11%
Community service I agree with especially for students during holiday times to help pay for their dole

cork1

beggars_bush wrote: »

I find it ridiculous that the government will not cut the amount of dole paid to people. How many people are leeching the system

we're subsidising people to not work ffs. as well as paying for their accommodation through rent relief. Its a joke

fair enough there are a lot of people who need the €€€€ to survive. But there are so many people on the dole who have never held down a job in their lives. they should be put out working for the tidy towns or something

how many people on the dole are also working a few days for cash - lots. its a disgrace

brainiacs like this shouldnt be allowed to voice an opinion. some of us have held down jobs and need that money. all ill say is if they do cut it i hope you end up drawing the dole so your can see for yourself why in reality it should be increased.

obl

obl wrote: »

How about put conditions on the "Job Seekers Allowance":

1. Passports of all to be supported by the payments is surrendered on first receipt of payment and may be collected on the first day they would receive a payment after they have found employment.
2. More rigorous checks implemented to see if people are actually seeking employment, payments after 6 months being refused without evidence of actual job-seeking.
3. ~25 hours a week of community service undertaken by all beneficiaries of the payments not in full time education(ie kids)

This would eliminate a lot unnecessary expenditure, without being unfair, no?

1. I'm unemployed at the moment, but my brother is getting married in Spain in September. So i shouldn't be allowed to go to my brothers wedding because I'm unemployed? :rolleyes:

2. What evidence can you give? Take a picture of you holding a Dunnes Application form? No businesses will entertain the idea helping you out if you need "proof" that you looked for a job off them.

3. Community service should be a job that someone gets paid for, not something you make unemployed people do. 25 hours is a ridiculous amount by the way. Besides, if your idea of putting a bunch of people who refuse to find work together, and expect them to actually do something constructive, then you're expecting far too much.




What they SHOULD do, is bring in a sh*tload of new FAS courses for cabinet makers, builders, IT experts, etc. etc. that are really advanced courses, so those that lost their jobs by the recession that were in high positioning in the country can keep working on what they've learned. If you're unemployed for 12months and go on a FAS course, you recieve an extra €30. This should instead be transferred to people who are unemployed under six months (instead of promoting the "get lazy = get cash" idea that's gonna go into your head).


FAS Courses are usually 12 weeks, they should be longer, at about 20 weeks to keep people doing something worthwhile. Fas courses could end with a big project for the course.

What i mean by that is, if you're on a computer course, at the end of it, your course should have to set up a computer network for a big company somewhere (they would obviously pay FAS for this). If you're on a cabinet making course, the course could get split into 5 equal groups, and they each have the job of making and fitting identical kitchens in houses on new estates. If youre on a plumbing course, etc. etc. etc.



Don't get me wrong, the above written is just off the top of my head, so im sure it could be worked upon greatly.


A tthe moment im on a FAS course (im not considered unemployed as i state above, i was just using that as an example). The fas course is a basic computers course and it's a great course. However, after i complete this course, i'm told that i'm disqualified from attending FAS courses for two years. How does that make any sense? It's retarded stuff like that that has people sitting at home instead of doing something worthwhile with their time. I'd love to know computers inside out, but i havent got the money to pay to do a proper course, FAS are telling me i wont get on any of their courses and i sure as hell wont find a job in anything computer-related with no experience. It doesn't make sense. But what does these days?

is_that_so

professore wrote: »

Wrong ... most of the 4% are people who have left one job and are going to start another one in a few weeks / months.

If you use the Live Register with its part-time, supplementary, and all sorts of other claims then this is not true, but it does include them. Even the Quarterly Household Survey does not tell you anything as to the employability of someone who is unemployed. 4% is usually seen as a level of full employment whereby an economy has enough people to allow it to to grow and as you have commented allow for people between jobs.

professore wrote: »

You are only entitled to UB if you have worked and it only lasts for 14 months. After that you are means tested. She will get nothing if her husband is working. Is this not right? A lot of people will need some time to adjust their spending and lifestyle if one loses a job, esp a family with young children and probably a big mortgage. Don't know what this "lady's" husband earns but must be north of 100K, they are already rich or they have no mortgage for her to say she doesn't need the money.

It's not that she doesn't need it but she was very surprised at how much she gets. When it runs out she will be means tested and quite probably will get nothing apart from the child benefit.

banshee_bones

mealone43 wrote: »

What has a passport to do with it? Some do not have passports

I think the poster was referring to foreign nationals who fly in once a month to sign for their dole.

beggars_bush

I was on the dole a few years ago for 9 months after college.
loved every minute of it. Free money. Rent paid for. The life of Riley
no incentive to get off it whatsoever.
Until one day i got fed up and got a job.

But how many people just don't bother looking for work because they live comfortably on the dole and doing a few nixers. There is sweet all incentives to get off the dole.

Think of mothers getting the ridiculous childcare supplement for their children. Is that all being spent on their children's welfare? Is it bollox. Give them food vouchers instead.

How about cutting the dole by 25% for those on it longer than 2 years? O just getting them out to work in the community for their full dole payment. They're not doing anything else with their time.

mealone43

beggars_bush wrote: »

I was on the dole a few years ago for 9 months after college.
loved every minute of it. Free money. Rent paid for. The life of Riley
no incentive to get off it whatsoever.
Until one day i got fed up and got a job.

But how many people just don't bother looking for work because they live comfortably on the dole and doing a few nixers. There is sweet all incentives to get off the dole.

Think of mothers getting the ridiculous childcare supplement for their children. Is that all being spent on their children's welfare? Is it bollox. Give them food vouchers instead.

How about cutting the dole by 25% for those on it longer than 2 years? O just getting them out to work in the community for their full dole payment. They're not doing anything else with their time.

Yg a genius can create those jobs I think where the assholes in Governemnt cannot. Good on ya boy. Create at least 200000 jobs will you to get the lazy bastards off the dole .

mealone43

banshee_bones wrote: »

I think the poster was referring to foreign nationals who fly in once a month to sign for their dole.

Ok thanks

iguy

Ah will ye stop moaning.,.people on the dole do work for tidy towns.,.however if they do they get extra money.!.anyways here's what i want to say.....the disabilty allowance was mentioned once or twice on this thread and i did.nt like what was said.....i'm on it and paid €205 per week plus i get €145,i live in a house(rent is €165 per week)with my girlfriend(who's also on disability allowance and gets only €205 per week)i also get free electricity,phone and rent allowance and tv licence every year and during the late autumn winter and early spring months i get the fuel allowance,also i household benefits allowance every month.....add all of that together and between me and my girlfriend we get €680 per week.....now that may might seem a lot for two people.,.but my point is that i have a friend who gets €1295 after tax per week all for himself and he lives at home with his parents!he should be taxed more.,.the poor people or people who cant get jobs or people on disability allowance should not be targeted.....i would work if i could but no business is insured to take me or my girlfriend on because of mine and her illness..!!!rant over.....

Ordinary man

Would a decreasing payment amount not fix a lot of the problems? Based on previous wages maybe 70% payments for first 6 months of unemployment, reducing every 3 months after until a bare living allowance after 18 months. This would allow people to adjust there living expences and possibly re train for jobs. Genuine people deserve help when they need it and everyone should have an incentive to work

ateam

iguy wrote: »

Ah will ye stop moaning.,.people on the dole do work for tidy towns.,.however if they do they get extra money.!.anyways here's what i want to say.....the disabilty allowance was mentioned once or twice on this thread and i did.nt like what was said.....i'm on it and paid €205 per week plus i get €145,i live in a house(rent is €165 per week)with my girlfriend(who's also on disability allowance and gets only €205 per week)i also get free electricity,phone and rent allowance and tv licence every year and during the late autumn winter and early spring months i get the fuel allowance,also i household benefits allowance every month.....add all of that together and between me and my girlfriend we get €680 per week.....now that may might seem a lot for two people.,.but my point is that i have a friend who gets €1295 after tax per week all for himself and he lives at home with his parents!he should be taxed more.,.the poor people or people who cant get jobs or people on disability allowance should not be targeted.....i would work if i could but no business is insured to take me or my girlfriend on because of mine and her illness..!!!rant over.....

You get €680 a week? For doing what???

Bob Z

Why talk about this now when there no jobs?

icanchange49

Peiking Duck wrote: »

I wonder how you would cope on the dole. Especially if it was cut.

quite well i suspect. i went on the dole 2 years ago after working for 28 years and i wish i had done so 28 years sooner. with no tax to pay and no commuting costs and all the other bits and pieces that i never even knew existed ive never been better off. to anyone working a low wage like i did for years (and listening to ****e all day long) i say cop on and come and join me in the good life.

beggars_bush

Ah will ye stop moaning.,.people on the dole do work for tidy towns.,.however if they do they get extra money.!.anyways here's what i want to say.....the disabilty allowance was mentioned once or twice on this thread and i did.nt like what was said.....i'm on it and paid €205 per week plus i get €145,i live in a house(rent is €165 per week)with my girlfriend(who's also on disability allowance and gets only €205 per week)i also get free electricity,phone and rent allowance and tv licence every year and during the late autumn winter and early spring months i get the fuel allowance,also i household benefits allowance every month.....add all of that together and between me and my girlfriend we get €680 per week.....now that may might seem a lot for two people.,.but my point is that i have a friend who gets €1295 after tax per week all for himself and he lives at home with his parents!he should be taxed more.,.the poor people or people who cant get jobs or people on disability allowance should not be targeted.....i would work if i could but no business is insured to take me or my girlfriend on because of mine and her illness..!!!rant over.....

point is though, he is working. What the fcek does he do for that amount each week? must be savage job

beggars_bush

icanchange49 wrote: »

quite well i suspect. i went on the dole 2 years ago after working for 28 years and i wish i had done so 28 years sooner. with no tax to pay and no commuting costs and all the other bits and pieces that i never even knew existed ive never been better off. to anyone working a low wage like i did for years (and listening to ****e all day long) i say cop on and come and join me in the good life.

and there are thousands more like you out there. Being on the dole is quite comfortable for a lot of people. Especially if you do a day or two of work for cash

iguy

Hey ateam read my post again please!.....my friend works as a steward in a hotel.,.he works 45 hours a week between 4pm and 12am tuesday til' saturday.....sure a majority of my friends who still have a job earn in average of €850-€1600 a week!does.nt everyone get that much?.......

Sqaull20

iguy wrote: »

Ah will ye stop moaning.,.people on the dole do work for tidy towns.,.however if they do they get extra money.!.anyways here's what i want to say.....the disabilty allowance was mentioned once or twice on this thread and i did.nt like what was said.....i'm on it and paid €205 per week plus i get €145,i live in a house(rent is €165 per week)with my girlfriend(who's also on disability allowance and gets only €205 per week)i also get free electricity,phone and rent allowance and tv licence every year and during the late autumn winter and early spring months i get the fuel allowance,also i household benefits allowance every month.....add all of that together and between me and my girlfriend we get €680 per week.....now that may might seem a lot for two people.,.but my point is that i have a friend who gets €1295 after tax per week all for himself and he lives at home with his parents!he should be taxed more.,.the poor people or people who cant get jobs or people on disability allowance should not be targeted.....i would work if i could but no business is insured to take me or my girlfriend on because of mine and her illness..!!!rant over.....

You get €340 a week for yourself for free!!

What are you complaining about, I mean what can you possibily be angry about financially?

Everything is paid for, your well looked after in every aspect from housing, health, electric, tv, phone, travel allowance, heating and have plenty left for leisure/ dining out.

So what if your friend gets a good wage and lives at home, he's obviously skilled/good at his job to be getting that money and has probably spent a long time in full time education.

All I hear from your post is excuses, anger and jealousy.

ateam

iguy wrote: »

Hey ateam read my post again please!.....my friend works as a steward in a hotel.,.he works 45 hours a week between 4pm and 12am tuesday til' saturday.....sure a majority of my friends who still have a job earn in average of €850-€1600 a week!does.nt everyone get that much?.......

All your "income" from the tax payer is disposable income, you don't pay any of the unpleasant things everybody has to. You're doing quite well for doing nothing.

alke

All this talk of cutting the social welfare rates is nonsence. They would be stupid to cut social welfare, the reason being that people on social welfare don't save money, they spend it, the reason there is a recession is because people with money have stopped spending it. People with jobs are so afraid of losing their jobs that they are saving money incase the worst happens. Cutting social welfare would essentialy make the whole situation worse.

P. Breathnach

alke wrote: »

All this talk of cutting the social welfare rates is nonsence. They would be stupid to cut social welfare, the reason being that people on social welfare don't save money, they spend it, the reason there is a recession is because people with money have stopped spending it. People with jobs are so afraid of losing their jobs that they are saving money incase the worst happens. Cutting social welfare would essentialy make the whole situation worse.

There is a lot of merit in that point.

As with so many things, there is a need to get the balance right. There are many saying that tax increases do nothing to help us out of recession (FG are trumpeting it loudly this weekend). The main reasoning is that tax increases reduce demand.

Consider a choice between taxing those on moderately good incomes an extra €10 pw, or cutting SW by €10 pw. The extra tax might be money that would otherwise be saved (perhaps an average weekly spend of €3-4 per taxpayer), whereas the SW payment would almost certainly be spent (perhaps an average spend of €9 per recipient).

[I have a moderately good income, and don't spend it all.]

silverharp

alke wrote: »

the reason there is a recession is because people with money have stopped spending it.

that might be an effect of the recession but it is not the cause of it. At worst you could argue that people that dont have any money have stopped borrowing. Surely you dont want to jump start that pig.

alke wrote: »

People with jobs are so afraid of losing their jobs that they are saving money incase the worst happens. Cutting social welfare would essentialy make the whole situation worse.

Cant see how, the alternative is to tax said scared people into saving more, (I'm in that group) , or borrow in a reckless manner which will create more fear and increase borrowing rates.

joe freethinker

I know a secondary school teacher who told me that if she was made redundant the state would only save 2k a year.so a highly educated person like this who works hard to hold on to their job in this climate is only 2k better off than their unemployed counterpart or worse still the lazy leeches.
cut the dole.
and this shows cutting public sector workers is a backward idea.

iguy

Em.....the person who said i am "looked after" is completly wrong.,.i get €395 not €340.....however me and my girlfriend only get "allowances" not 'everything' is paid for.,.only under 1 third of me and my girlfriend expenses are paid for.,.my girlfriends health is.nt 'looked after'...and may i stress that both off us are on disability allowance.,.i'm in hospital at least 5 months per year.,.and my girlfriend has epilepsy.....and like i said in my earlier post i get the education allowance,people only get that allowance because adult education usually requires "work" yano.....oh and i'm not jealous of anyone either,my point was how is it fair that my friend can live on over a grand p/w with no expenses and two people can have to live on under €700p/w with expenses.....oh and out of that €700 per week me and my girlfriend are left with €120 p/w while my friend is left with €1000 p/w and he can do whatever he wants with it!

P. Breathnach

joe freethinker wrote: »

I know a secondary school teacher who told me that if she was made redundant the state would only save 2k a year...

I find that really hard to believe (not that I am advocating making teachers redundant).

spurious

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I find that really hard to believe (not that I am advocating making teachers redundant).

We'll be losing at least 6 from our staff (of 40) this year. Meanwhile the number of students in the school will go up.
A number of my younger colleagues would certainly have less than €800 per month disposable income, which is what someone living at home on the labour would have (? please correct that if I have the wrong figures).

dlofnep

There just needs to be a more transparent means of means-testing people; and active pursuit ensuring people are looking for work with genuine intentions.

There needs to be a system in place to help people who genuinely can't find work (which is too many people unfortunately in these times), but that system must be protected to ensure it is only for the people who genuinely require it.

Are there people abusing the system? Absolutely. And if they are, cut them off. That includes people who work under the table for cash, and get the dole on the side.