Cut the dole!! Way too many leeches

Appleguy

Was thinking about this today. I'm only young and probably don't fully understand the situation with the dole but this is what i would do to cut some of the leeches to the dole system.

Not sure if theres any truth in it but my mate works in the airport and he says that people come from England and surrounding countries to collect the dole. I firmly believe that if people are entitled to something they should get it. But if true this sounds absolutely ridiculous and is total abuse.

Heres what i would do to correct this. Now maybe it cant be done but its just an idea.

Assuming a requirement for the dole is an address in the Republic. Why cant we do the following?

1: Send a letter to everyone collecting the dole a weekly pin number to their registered Irish address. Your pin and your id is required to collect your cash.

There is one pin per household unless it is proven to be rented accom. and If the accomodation is rented its the responsibility of the landlord/landlady to update the information of their tenants online. A fine for non compliance will be applied to those who don't

2: Implement a hotline for people to call if they believe somebody near them is claiming benefit they are not entitled to.

3: Employ a dole investigation team of 20 nationwide to route out those who are totally playing the system.

4: With the money saved from those not entitled i would increase the dole amount for those with bigger families who actually cannot secure employment no matter how hard theyre trying in this difficult economic climate. Those who have been claiming for years will remain on the same rate as theyre clearly not even looking for work.

I realize that steps 2 and 3 will cost but will be truly worth it if those scamming the system are taken off the register. Also positive as could put up to 50 people back in a job and probably pay for itself for a few years until all of these scammers are removed.

Any thoughts?

Shane-1

Thats true, it was more difficult for us, for example, to register the baby as an unmarried couple, more paper work etc.

Shane-1

Appleguy wrote: »

Was thinking about this today. I'm only young and probably don't fully understand the situation with the dole but this is what i would do to cut some of the leeches to the dole system.

Not sure if theres any truth in it but my mate works in the airport and he says that people come from England and surrounding countries to collect the dole. I firmly believe that if people are entitled to something they should get it. But if true this sounds absolutely ridiculous and is total abuse.

Heres what i would do to correct this. Now maybe it cant be done but its just an idea.

Assuming a requirement for the dole is an address in the Republic. Why cant we do the following?

1: Send a letter to everyone collecting the dole a weekly pin number to their registered Irish address. Your pin and your id is required to collect your cash.

There is one pin per household unless it is proven to be rented accom. and If the accomodation is rented its the responsibility of the landlord/landlady to update the information of their tenants online. A fine for non compliance will be applied to those who don't

2: Implement a hotline for people to call if they believe somebody near them is claiming benefit they are not entitled to.

3: Employ a dole investigation team of 20 nationwide to route out those who are totally playing the system.

4: With the money saved from those not entitled i would increase the dole amount for those with bigger families who actually cannot secure employment no matter how hard theyre trying in this difficult economic climate. Those who have been claiming for years will remain on the same rate as theyre clearly not even looking for work.

I realize that steps 2 and 3 will cost but will be truly worth it if those scamming the system are taken off the register. Also positive as could put up to 50 people back in a job and probably pay for itself for a few years until all of these scammers are removed.

Any thoughts?

They have put in a hotline in England for people to rat out their dole scamming neighbours, great idea, it cuts down on welfare cheats, and also I bet you would treat all your neighbours better if you were afraid they might be inclined to shop you to the authorities for those extra few payments you are claiming Could lead to a better, more polite society.

Your ideas are pretty good, dont know about the feasability of step 1 though, we couldnt even get a few electronic voting machines to work, we would surely make a royal balls of that pincode idea

Someone else put up an idea earlier that every one claiming the dole be called on for 20 - 25 hours community service per week to justify their payments. If they dont do the service they dont get the payment. I thought that was a good idea.

Appleguy

Shane-1 wrote: »

They have put in a hotline in England for people to rat out their dole scamming neighbours, great idea, it cuts down on welfare cheats, and also I bet you would treat all your neighbours better if you were afraid they might be inclined to shop you to the authorities for those extra few payments you are claiming Could lead to a better, more polite society.

Your ideas are pretty good, dont know about the feasability of step 1 though, we couldnt even get a few electronic voting machines to work, we would surely make a royal balls of that pincode idea

Someone else put up an idea earlier that every one claiming the dole be called on for 20 - 25 hours community service per week to justify their payments. If they dont do the service they dont get the payment. I thought that was a good idea.

Id imagine that it could be done without too much hassle almost automatically these days. A random pin code send out and the list that matches it on the other end. Surely easy enough to maintain. I know we don't have the best track record though.

I'm half thinkin of it as a type of chip and pin thing eventually being implemented where your pin is sent out to you every week and your dole card has your photo id, chip and irish address on it. Could be a requirement that you bring your most recent telephone ESB Gas bill etc to prove your still residing there and it cant be more than a month old.

gaeilgegrinds

Hot line a great idea, I believe those abusing the system should be taken up on it.
Also believe community involvement would help people who genuinely do not want to be on S.W. to keep their pride.

AlekSmart

All very laudable Shane-1 and my comments are in no way directed to you or your partner personally,but I can assure you that Feral & Violent are watered down descriptives in relation to some of what I see on a weekly basis.

What is personally worrying is the rapid lowering of the age at which the "Child" disappears,to be replaced with the almost indescribable individuals who then are sent out to mark their territory.

Anybody following the acounts of the vicious child attack in Doncaster (UK) will perhaps not be too surprised at the reported comments of the Mother of one of the accused children,currently in care.

In what could well be described as an anthem for a generation,she is reported as saying "It`s Nothing to do with me".....:(
Doubtless but this woman will feel that actually procreating and having the child had "nothing to do" with her either.

My point was only that there is no incentive to hold a family together

This is indeed a valid point and it behoves further consideration as to what should constitute "Incentive"in this context.
One could ask what were the "Incentives" that held so many Irish Families together in the era predating the Welfare Society.
It is almost as if we have collectively erased so much of what,in many ways,once set Irish culture apart during decades of what by todays standards was REAL poverty,with the infant mortality and adult life-expectancy figures to prove it.

I dont know,but perhaps someday YOUR child may be able to look back on parents and thank them for providing it with some form of reference point devoid of "Dutch Gold".
If that turns out to be the case then You and your partner can be well proud of having at least made the effort.

Completely OT I know,but in relation to your quote....

.Im in college studying a decent course, I know my responsibilities quite well, and well its not as if we actually planned on having the little tike!

How well do you think YOU and your Partners Education actually contributed to any form of understanding of "Planning" in the context you describe ?

Either way,good luck with the chizzler,just be always aware that it`s a long winding road and that YOUR child never actually grows up at all,remaining forever your CHILD

wolfpawnat

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is all well and good,BUT surely in what should be the "Normal" run of such things the couple really needed to assess their ability to fund their new baby BEFORE embarking on the entire Famblymaking process ?

Even people in a stable and happy marriage have unplanned pregnancies. It can happen anyone. And as Shane-1 was saying, its not about scamming the system, it's about not getting the same treatment as others who do even though we are being honest.

As it currently stands our cities and towns are largely surrounded by enclaves largley populated and dominated by groups of feral,violent children whose propensity for violence and large scale anti-social activity are depressingly all too obvious.

Since I have a 12yr old brother and an 18yr old sister, I can honestly say that it is not just the children of celtic tiger "dole monkeys" that are acting like animals, but also the children of respectable middle class families. These children exist regardless of background, some come from Ballymun and Moyross, others from D4 and quiet country lane ways. Don't assume the dole is the reason for these children.:):)

mikemac

bmaxi wrote: »

Listening to Hanafin on the radio news it appears that this will be up to the discretion of the P.O. assistant. She was asked a direct question, " If the claimant is known to the Post Office staff, will they have to produce photo I.D.? The answer was no." FFS, why can't they make a rule, apply it universally, and stick to it? You hand in your photo I.D. along with your claimants card or "next please", people will soon get the message. I can just see the hassle in Post offices on Dole day when bedraggled assistants are getting dog's abuse.

lol, I get this in banks
"What d'ya mean you want ID you young pup! My family has used this bank for years, now get your manager"
"Eh sorry, I don't know you and I have to ask "

AlekSmart

These children exist regardless of background, some come from Ballymun and Moyross, others from D4 and quiet country lane ways. Don't assume the dole is the reason for these children.

A big +1 to that wolfpawnat,anybody who spends a few weekend evenings in or around the Wes in D4 will be well able to identify with that sentiment

It`s not the Dole as being the "reason" for these children that would be concerning me,I believe that within certain parameters the source of the funding is immaterial,it is down to the inherent core values of the individuals.....and it is the disappearance of those Core Values and associated responses that is perhaps facilitating the slide into oblivion...?

wolfpawnat

AlekSmart wrote: »

A big +1 to that wolfpawnat,anybody who spends a few weekend evenings in or around the Wes in D4 will be well able to identify with that sentiment

It`s not the Dole as being the "reason" for these children that would be concerning me,I believe that within certain parameters the source of the funding is immaterial,it is down to the inherent core values of the individuals.....and it is the disappearance of those Core Values and associated responses that is perhaps facilitating the slide into oblivion...?

Sadly yes, and in some cases children who saw mummy and daddy sitting on their arses drinking Dutch Gold and going to Playa de Ingles twice annually and getting all sorts of benefits during the Celtic Tiger will themselves become as I already said "Dole Monkeys".

What really annoys me is the abuse of alot of people of the SW when they don't need it, causing it to be difficult for families, especially now with the recession to get what they need to barely get by.

realismpol

This whole debate is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. We really have hit rock bottom if we think limiting social welfare payments will help save the economy. Its years of neglect, financial mismanagement and greed which left us in the situation we find ourselves in. The powers that be who no doubt are still making the decisions and still earning the high wages will always be happy to cut the life saver for those without a job whilst they are looking for jobs. Of course this will not affect them in anyway.

We need to be more positive about things and start coming up with ways to get out of this mess. All this talk is focusing on the negative and is depressing. Even if the scammers are found out and done away with the overwhelming mess we find ourselves in will continue with no end in sight if people's attititudes remain the same and then we won't be able to borrow any more. Then we'll really be in trouble. We need to focus our attention on job creation.


Also just to awnser some other posters comments

Assuming a requirement for the dole is an address in the Republic. Why cant we do the following?

1: Send a letter to everyone collecting the dole a weekly pin number to their registered Irish address. Your pin and your id is required to collect your cash.

good idea but the logistics of carrying out the above would be impossible to implement. Staff at the sw offices are already overwhelmed enough as it is.

2: Implement a hotline for people to call if they believe somebody near them is claiming benefit they are not entitled to.

really you serious? Whats next george orwells 1984. Desperate times call for desperate measures but not at the expense of civil liberties. That system would only make things 100 times worse as people with vendetta's would no doubt take advantage to settle old scores. Please do not use the u.k as an example for ireland to follow the u.k is turning into a guinea pig state whose citizens are spied on, they are the most videotaped in europe with all their cctv cameras and just recently a law has been passed in the u.k to archive and monitor all email and internet communications for all citizens using the internet in the u.k. The violence level over there is out of control also with teens now carrying out murder. If we head down this path im moving somewhere remote and far away from civillisation. You can live in the cage just to save a few taxes. With all these tools and data gathering for them you'd think they would be safe but alas they are not and are the majority of citizens are not happy with the way they are losing their rights.

3: Employ a dole investigation team of 20 nationwide to route out those who are totally playing the system.

yeah yeah kind of like david caruso on csi miami....

I think the governements recommendations as they stand are good enough to solve the issue.

thebman

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is all well and good,BUT surely in what should be the "Normal" run of such things the couple really needed to assess their ability to fund their new baby BEFORE embarking on the entire Famblymaking process ?

Hang on, people have sex, it is only natural. Contraception fails, it isn't perfect. Abortion is illegal in this country.

As it currently stands our cities and towns are largely surrounded by enclaves largley populated and dominated by groups of feral,violent children whose propensity for violence and large scale anti-social activity are depressingly all too obvious.

No they aren't. largely dominated by groups of violent children. Where the hell do you live? I don't live anywhere like that. There is a very small minority of anti-social activity where I'm from at least.

Appleguy wrote: »

Was thinking about this today. I'm only young and probably don't fully understand the situation with the dole but this is what i would do to cut some of the leeches to the dole system.

Not sure if theres any truth in it but my mate works in the airport and he says that people come from England and surrounding countries to collect the dole. I firmly believe that if people are entitled to something they should get it. But if true this sounds absolutely ridiculous and is total abuse.

Heres what i would do to correct this. Now maybe it cant be done but its just an idea.

Assuming a requirement for the dole is an address in the Republic. Why cant we do the following?

1: Send a letter to everyone collecting the dole a weekly pin number to their registered Irish address. Your pin and your id is required to collect your cash.

There is one pin per household unless it is proven to be rented accom. and If the accomodation is rented its the responsibility of the landlord/landlady to update the information of their tenants online. A fine for non compliance will be applied to those who don't

The post isn't fool proof, what if it doesn't arrive? I don't have a problem with the rest of it. People who have their own houses will usually have mortgages and are unlikely to be on voluntarily be on welfare since it won't pay their mortgages in many cases. I imagine very few people are scamming from this section of society.

2: Implement a hotline for people to call if they believe somebody near them is claiming benefit they are not entitled to.

Good idea if it doesn't already exist.

3: Employ a dole investigation team of 20 nationwide to route out those who are totally playing the system.

I assume there are people already doing this.

4: With the money saved from those not entitled i would increase the dole amount for those with bigger families who actually cannot secure employment no matter how hard theyre trying in this difficult economic climate. Those who have been claiming for years will remain on the same rate as theyre clearly not even looking for work.

Families already get bigger welfare allowances. We won't have any money for social welfare soon anyway so we might as well just try to make the little left, last longer.

bigeasyeah

I think they need to implement more stringent measures to determine genuine cases.
However I cant begrudge anyone Jobseeker Benefit-its their money.
Also I would like to see rigorous pursual of those recieving welfare payments over a prolonged period.

mealone43

bigeasyeah wrote: »

I think they need to implement more stringent measures to determine genuine cases.
However I cant begrudge anyone Jobseeker Benefit-its their money.
Also I would like to see rigorous pursual of those recieving welfare payments over a prolonged period.

Of course that is correct. Chase down the sacmmers and have respect for people on the dole through no fault of their own. The builders are on the dole due 100% to FF incompetents and their failed policies but really we can only blame ourselves for that I suppose as "we" put those idiots into power. FG and Labour are suggesting ways to get us out of this hole but will BIFFO listen? Of course not, the arrogant incompetent.

Appleguy

realismpol wrote: »

Just briefly in relation to your own comments.

1. We need to be more positive about things and start coming up with ways to get out of this mess.

2. We need to focus our attention on job creation.

3. I think the governements recommendations as they stand are good enough to solve the issue.

1.
Correct me if i'm wrong but are these comments i just made not new ways to "get out of the mess" This has been going on far too long and its attitudes like yours oh the government are doing what they can to sort it out is why were in the mess were in. It hasn't been working for years and the Irish government aren't ones to be galvanized into action unless something happens to force their hand.

2.
I think i addressed job creation to the tune of approx 50 -60 people if the above steps were implemented. It takes a maximum of 2 days to get an unregistered letter anywhere in the country so i don't think the letter thing would be a logistical nightmare as An Post are fairly good. Ive never had an ESB bill go missing in my life.

3.
While those who are getting what they shouldn't be are still claiming the Dole the system is not working.

NatDonegal

realcam wrote: »

Dole must be cut.


... Over 200 plus housing and allowances is ridiculous. No incentive to get them off their backsides. Should be cut in half plus a few vouchers or something.

That is a great idea... food vouchers would help keep the money in the country (stop it being spent across the border) ... and keep the ones that are abusing social welfare from spending it on booze and cigarettes... could it be introduced easily enough ?

Neverwhere

in response to the op comment about working the extra days a week.

I hate it when people say ooooh cut back on social welfare! cut back on social welfare!!!

i am on dissability allowance. i dont want it, but i have to be on it for the time being. I have spent a great deal of time in hospital, so that makes holding a job down hard from time to time.

The money sounds good (just over 200 a week), but when you factor in food, rent, bills, transport.....you arent left with much. its hard to live off.

people on dissability and various payments are entitled to work a few hours a week to get a bit of extra money. I am hoping to do this for a couple months while I feel good. And why shouldn't I? It's not my fault I'm sick, and I feel like doing a bit of work gives me something to do and rehabilitates me. It also gets me out of sticky situations. I don't get enough to live on by times, saving is impossible....so if i can work a bit, and save up a bit it helps out with docs appts etc.

thebman

Fred83 wrote: »

...redacted per user request...

Really, evidence please?

JonathanAnon

I was just about to ask a similar question. What would the average wage monthly be in Poland or some of the other Eastern European countries? If the dole is that generous that it is encouraging people to stay here and send the money home, as opposed to going to other countries looking for work (or home of course), then it is unsustainable.

To reiterate, I dont know that this is the case, is 800 euro a month good wages in any country that we have a significant amount of immigrants from?

97i9y3941

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I was just about to ask a similar question. What would the average wage monthly be in Poland or some of the other Eastern European countries? If the dole is that generous that it is encouraging people to stay here and send the money home, as opposed to going to other countries looking for work (or home of course), then it is unsustainable.

To reiterate, I dont know that this is the case, is 800 euro a month good wages in any country that we have a significant amount of immigrants from?

thing is,its a elephant in the room,no1 cant open their mouth due to be afraid been called a racist,this is takeing from citizens info about child benefit

EU/EEA citizens and Swiss nationals working in Ireland, satisfy the habitual residence condition for Child Benefit.

If you are an EU/EEA citizen or a Swiss national and work in a country covered by EU Regulations, the country you work in usually pays Child Benefit even if your family is living in another country. However, if your children are living in another EU/EEA country you should still apply for any Family Benefits you are entitled to there.

If the Family Benefit you get in the country your children are living is less than the Child Benefit payment here, your Irish Child Benefit payment will make up the difference. For more information on how EU rules affect Child Benefit, contact the Child Benefit Section (see 'Where to apply' below).

Countries covered by EU Regulations are: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom (excluding the Channel Islands).

deadhead13

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I was just about to ask a similar question. What would the average wage monthly be in Poland or some of the other Eastern European countries? If the dole is that generous that it is encouraging people to stay here and send the money home, as opposed to going to other countries looking for work (or home of course), then it is unsustainable.

To reiterate, I dont know that this is the case, is 800 euro a month good wages in any country that we have a significant amount of immigrants from?

Over 100,000 immigrants, mostly from eastern europe, have left the country in the past year. Those on the live register, have made at least two years of PRSI contributions and are entitled to the dole.

realismpol

Fred83 wrote: »

its benefiting the forginers anyway,most of them are staying for this,along with the child benefit,sending it abroad

Oh here we go it wasn't long for the zenophobic comments to start. Im sure there are plenty of irish people abusing the system too. Yes i hope they investigate it and publish the findings and i can gaurentee you it won't make pretty reading for the 'dirty foreigners stealing our jobs women and genetics' brigade.

realismpol

Appleguy wrote: »

1.
Correct me if i'm wrong but are these comments i just made not new ways to "get out of the mess" This has been going on far too long and its attitudes like yours oh the government are doing what they can to sort it out is why were in the mess were in. It hasn't been working for years and the Irish government aren't ones to be galvanized into action unless something happens to force their hand.

Yes and im sure if we investigated the government we'd find a lot of dirty linen hidden in the closet. But we all know thats not going to happen. Its atttitudes like mine? No its not attitude's like mine that has caused this problem its greedy corporate financial mismangement and crooks of the highest level that have put us in this position. Scamming the dole office however wrong it is didn't ruin the economy as far as im aware. But thats always how the rich and powerful get their way by having people at the lower level fight amongst each other over trivial issues. Apparently from the above comments its working too. When the economy was doing well not one person was complaining about dole abuse. Its only now that people feel aggrieved its all coming out.

Correcting the abuses in the social welfare system is a good start to fixing problems but in regards to the current economic chaos we find ourselves in its tandtamount to placing a sandbag in an overflooded river.




2.

I think i addressed job creation to the tune of approx 50 -60 people if the above steps were implemented. It takes a maximum of 2 days to get an unregistered letter anywhere in the country so i don't think the letter thing would be a logistical nightmare as An Post are fairly good. Ive never had an ESB bill go missing in my life.

These people are overwhelmed enough as it is without having to write letters out to people. If anything it should be a seperate department dealing with this. And at the rate our unemployment is going it will be at 500,000 letters a week if thats the case. Who's going to pay for all the expenses?

3.

While those who are getting what they shouldn't be are still claiming the Dole the system is not working.

agreed. I guess you got your wish today with the budget annoucements. Under 20's to make 100 a week down 104. Im not concerned about johnny scumbag scamming the dole office. Im concerned about how the super wealthy are playing people off against each other and not paying a cent from their own coffers to taxation. Just look at the salaries the politicans are making. A pension after 3 years ffs whilst the rest of us are forced to pay a levy. Ministers taking state assests such as air corps helicopters to ferry themselves around during economic chaos at the cost of the taxpayers whilst their hired drivers sit around. Junior ministers working 1 and a half days a week on huge salaries, getting their mortages paid off whilst the rest of people stuggle. This is where the real scam lies.

cesarbart

Im sorry and i know theres gonna conflict but, if we dont have the jobs for the foreigners they need to return back home and go on their own countrys dole. There staying here because everything is free, RENT + MONEY + CLOTHES. Everythin in this country should be means tested. This country needs a war of independence (again) to seperate from europe and close down the flood gates.

THANK YOU BERTIE AHERN!! (Sarcastic)

thebman

Appleguy wrote: »

I think i addressed job creation to the tune of approx 50 -60 people if the above steps were implemented. It takes a maximum of 2 days to get an unregistered letter anywhere in the country so i don't think the letter thing would be a logistical nightmare as An Post are fairly good. Ive never had an ESB bill go missing in my life.

An post haven't been good in my area lately. A letter and a parcel and sent to me and neither has arrived in 3 weeks.

You see the problem is when the government reduces their wages with the pension levy they get annoyed, unmotivated and don't work as hard.

realismpol

cesarbart wrote: »

Im sorry and i know theres gonna conflict but, if we dont have the jobs for the foreigners they need to return back home and go on their own countrys dole. There staying here because everything is free, RENT + MONEY + CLOTHES. Everythin in this country should be means tested. This country needs a war of independence (again) to seperate from europe and close down the flood gates.

THANK YOU BERTIE AHERN!! (Sarcastic)

Agreed we need to exterminate these gypsies similar to what the nazis done during ww2. In fact i suggest we open up concentration camps for this vile human filth who have been invading our shores. They are like animals really, subhumans when you think about it. They have nothing to do in life but come over here to get our free generosity. We irish have never done that in the past, i mean emmigrating to other countries. No all they do is steal jobs from the valiant irish workers who clean the toilets and do the jobs the foreigners who sponge off the dole won't do. I second your recommendation only i say we need to exterminate them to perserve the pure clean racialness of our country. Next they'll be after our women...just you wait and see..you heard it here first.

<MOD>Before anyone else reports this post, I invite you to consider the word 'irony'.</MOD>

Mr.Micro

Cutting the dole in half for those under 20.annnounced by Lenihan. So basiclally anybody unlucky enough to be on the dole at this age and in a desperate economic climate, its emigrate is it, as 100 euro will not go far.

thebman

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Cutting the dole in half for those under 20. So basiclally anybody unlucky enough to be on the dole at this ageand in a desperate economic climate so its emigrate, as 100 euro will not go far.

You'd be surprised how far a 100 euro a week goes for someone with very few expenses or responsibilities.

97i9y3941

true,like i said earlier,most people under 20 would still live at home

The Muppet

Fred83 wrote: »

true,like i said earlier,most people under 20 would still live at home

Whats that got to do with it, they still have to eat and clothe themselves on €15 a day now.