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Cut the dole!! Way too many leeches

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    #212
    ckristo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭ckristo2


    I agree. i find the title of the thread most charming and the idea of cutting Social Welfare at a time when the numbers of unemployed are growing is .....charming also.


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    #213
    elshambo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭elshambo


    Dublin_Gunner wrote: »
    If the false claimants were clamped down, there would have probably been no need to reduce any of the benefit expenditure in the recent budget. But as per usual, the government takes the easy way out - instead of spending a bit more to eradicate the problem, they punish the majority who rely on the benefits that are being claimed honestly.

    You do realize that if the money it would take to catch dole cheats was used to catch high end tax dodgers instead the goverment would be renumerated in multiples of 1000's if not 100,000's compared to what they could get off the dole cheats AND would not put poor children through untold hardship

    But the rich have lawyers and are not a soft target so leave them off huh?:o:eek:


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    #214
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    ckristo2 wrote: »
    I agree. i find the title of the thread most charming and the idea of cutting Social Welfare at a time when the numbers of unemployed are growing is .....charming also.

    in order to get the economy out of the ditch , we need to provide incentives for those who are still in employment ,not tax the arse off them like the goverment has chosen to do , those who are on the dole are not the ones who will pull the economy out of the ditch


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    #215
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    elshambo wrote: »
    You do realize that if the money it would take to catch dole cheats was used to catch high end tax dodgers instead the goverment would be renumerated in multiples of 1000's if not 100,000's compared to what they could get off the dole cheats AND would not put poor children through untold hardship

    But the rich have lawyers and are not a soft target so leave them off huh?:o:eek:


    Why not do both?


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    #216
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    irish_bob wrote: »
    in order to get the economy out of the ditch , we need to provide incentives for those who are still in employment ,not tax the arse off them like the goverment has chosen to do , those who are on the dole are not the ones who will pull the economy out of the ditch

    Maybe they wont but I dont think the government will either. If the dole is cut what will happen to the crime rate? I work and pay 42 cent in the euro to the government and Im happy to do so. Im not rich but I have a roof over my head, clothes on my back and food in my belly. Every human deserves the same wheather or not their lucky enough to have a job.
    If you think the government can get us out of this recession then by the same logic you have to think the government got us into this recession. There is no logic in that is there? The recession isnt the governments fault and they wont get us out of it but when it ends you can be sure they will take the credit for it. We just have to sit tight and wait for it to pass.


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    #217
    elshambo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭elshambo


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Why not do both?

    no reason, going after both is fine!

    except

    1. Every euro spent on tax dodgers would return
    a lot more than the every euro spent on dole cheats
    SO
    chasing tax dodgers is more value for the little money the goverment have

    2.Its always the "leeches" on the dole who are attacked by people like the op and rarely the tax dodgers, where most of the money is in fact being lost

    How about go after the tax dodgers and THEN with that vast sum of money in the bank, go after the dole cheats

    You know the smart way like a successfull business, not like a business
    hiting the soft targets and leaving the big problem alone

    of course it has nothing to do with the tax dodgers being the type of people who make party donations:eek:


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    #218
    Dublin_Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    elshambo wrote: »
    You do realize that if the money it would take to catch dole cheats was used to catch high end tax dodgers instead the goverment would be renumerated in multiples of 1000's if not 100,000's compared to what they could get off the dole cheats AND would not put poor children through untold hardship

    But the rich have lawyers and are not a soft target so leave them off huh?:o:eek:


    Are you employed by our government? Because that answer shows just the lack of foresight that our government has shown since FF came to power.

    If they spent the money to sure up the system, it would save them billions in the long run - well worth the investment.

    And I seriously doubt the 'high end tax dodgers' as you call them account for anywhere near the amount that benefit fraudsters do.

    And anyway - since the introduction of CAB, large scale tax fraud is increasingly fraught with risk, and the dodgers are getting caught.


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    #219
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    surprised we havent had this in ireland yet,reminds me of some people around town

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5004431/Family-who-are-too-fat-to-work-say-22000-worth-of-benefits-is-not-enough.html


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    #220
    old boy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭old boy


    judging by the press and other media every gang member who appears in court are claiming the dole and end up with free legal aid, now thats something to start with. also all traverers are allowed to draw the dole and trade.


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    #221
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    i highlighted that issue before in here,apparently the gangsters will end up paying anyway since the criminal assets bureau seizes any assets/property that the gangster may have,so money ends up going back to the taxpayer


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    #222
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    gave a friend of mine a lift down to the dole office yesterday for him to sign on.

    was amazed to watch people go in and out for 40 minutes

    no sign of a recession there!

    people driving in with nice cars. some of them top of the range. Well dressed adults. looks like the dole isn't a bad option for a lot of people


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    #223
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    Offy wrote: »
    Maybe they wont but I dont think the government will either. If the dole is cut what will happen to the crime rate? I work and pay 42 cent in the euro to the government and Im happy to do so. Im not rich but I have a roof over my head, clothes on my back and food in my belly. Every human deserves the same wheather or not their lucky enough to have a job.
    If you think the government can get us out of this recession then by the same logic you have to think the government got us into this recession. There is no logic in that is there? The recession isnt the governments fault and they wont get us out of it but when it ends you can be sure they will take the credit for it. We just have to sit tight and wait for it to pass.

    i dont at all think the goverment will get us out of this mess , my post wasnt suggesting they would , what i am saying is that the goverment are crucifying the only people who can get us back on track , small business etc , those who will create innititives and create jobs and employment

    as for your comment that every human deserves the same regardless of whether they have a job , thats bordering on communism and i dont want everyone to be poor in ireland


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    #224
    ckristo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭ckristo2


    Well I should hope that those on the dole are not being given the task of pulling the economy out of the ditch. I don't think the patients in a hospital are asked to engage in medical research either.
    The title of this thread sounds like a column by some right wing journalist in the Sunday Independent.
    I hope the person who dreamed it up should never have to try to live on a single person's welfare assistance.


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    #225
    CorkFenian
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭CorkFenian


    I think what the poster Dublin Gunner is doing is a million times worse than any abuse on this site..He should be IMHO be kicked off by a moderator..I have worked for past 12 years.Being made redundant back during dot com etc in 2002.Off since January now...Paid PRSI...Checked all job sites..As I know them very well..As i contract in IT...My reaction is one of anger to this guy..He is talking complete and utter rubbish..He either is looking for a rise from the people here or he is seriously deluded and shouldnt be entertained or should be booted off for taking the mick, IMHO...


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    #226
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    gave a friend of mine a lift down to the dole office yesterday for him to sign on.

    was amazed to watch people go in and out for 40 minutes

    no sign of a recession there!

    people driving in with nice cars. some of them top of the range. Well dressed adults. looks like the dole isn't a bad option for a lot of people

    This gets to me a little - should people who collect the dole dress in rags and ride a donkey and cart to sign on? What if they've been working for years and have paid their taxes and have just recently lost jobs, as thousands have?

    I'm currently unemployed, have resisted signing on for the last four months while I searched for a job, and when I went in to ask about social welfare I was dressed in a suit because I had an interview later that day. Should have worn the old potato sack I suppose.


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    #227
    CorkFenian
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭CorkFenian


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    This gets to me a little - should people who collect the dole dress in rags and ride a donkey and cart to sign on? What if they've been working for years and have paid their taxes and have just recently lost jobs, as thousands have?

    I'm currently unemployed, have resisted signing on for the last four months while I searched for a job, and when I went in to ask about social welfare I was dressed in a suit because I had an interview later that day. Should have worn the old potato sack I suppose.

    I agree 100%.There is a mindset out there of people who have never worked and are glad of this recession.People always want to point the finger at someone.Even when that person studies\works harder than they've ever done..There are people around who love it when people they see aren't "doing as well as there were" before this recession..


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    #228
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    CorkFenian wrote: »
    I agree 100%.There is a mindset out there of people who have never worked and are glad of this recession.People always want to point the finger at someone.Even when that person studies\works harder than they've ever done..There are people around who love it when people they see aren't "doing as well as there were" before this recession..

    disliking success is part of irish culture


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    #229
    mealone43
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭mealone43


    old boy wrote: »
    judging by the press and other media every gang member who appears in court are claiming the dole and end up with free legal aid, now thats something to start with. also all traverers are allowed to draw the dole and trade.
    Very right, I know for a fact that some travellers, ones that I know, are trading and drawing the dole. Fact is that the investigators are afraid of them. They love it, as do the criminals who drive high powered cars and flash clothes and draw the dole also. It is not the decent unfortunate jobless who should be clamped down on but the criminals. Maybe we should use CAB forn those guys.


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    #230
    Dublin_Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    CorkFenian wrote: »
    I think what the poster Dublin Gunner is doing is a million times worse than any abuse on this site..He should be IMHO be kicked off by a moderator..I have worked for past 12 years.Being made redundant back during dot com etc in 2002.Off since January now...Paid PRSI...Checked all job sites..As I know them very well..As i contract in IT...My reaction is one of anger to this guy..He is talking complete and utter rubbish..He either is looking for a rise from the people here or he is seriously deluded and shouldnt be entertained or should be booted off for taking the mick, IMHO...

    If you want to take any of my comments personally, be my guest. However, I'm fully entitled to my opinion, and I was in no way tarring everyone with the same brush.

    Requesting I should be banned etc for having an opinion is seriously bad form. In fact, you personally attacking me for having an opinion would be more likely to result in moderation.

    I have some friends in the same situation as you, and I know how lazy they have been with regard to getting any sort of job - and I've criticized them personally for it.

    There's always FAS etc to increase your skills and better your chances / scope of finding employment. Some people don't even consider maybe moving to a different area of employment.

    And to be honest, a lot of my points are very valid indeed. Please re-read my posts and stop taking it so personally.


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    #231
    CorkFenian
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭CorkFenian


    Dublin_Gunner wrote: »
    If you want to take any of my comments personally, be my guest. However, I'm fully entitled to my opinion, and I was in no way tarring everyone with the same brush.

    Requesting I should be banned etc for having an opinion is seriously bad form. In fact, you personally attacking me for having an opinion would be more likely to result in moderation.

    I have some friends in the same situation as you, and I know how lazy they have been with regard to getting any sort of job - and I've criticized them personally for it.

    There's always FAS etc to increase your skills and better your chances / scope of finding employment. Some people don't even consider maybe moving to a different area of employment.

    And to be honest, a lot of my points are very valid indeed. Please re-read my posts and stop taking it so personally.

    Your opinion is ignorant, misleading and is something I guarantee you if you said to these people in person.You wouldn't last very long..You're what I would call a "keyboard hardman"..You're a WUM plain and simple..What do you do for a living??Mr High and Mighty..The very small points which you make that are reasonable are obvious and are completely negated by putting everyone else in the same pot.
    You say you've criticized your friends..Great stuff..Save this crap for them then...
    There is no defense for calling people lazy like you have been doing...You don't know anything about people on this site.Pretty sad TBH..Do you actually know whats going on at the moment...The economy is dead for new hires\contracts..Lazy lazy juvenile posting on your behalf..
    With regard to taking it personally..Your view is more or less...
    "Lads theres loads of work out there..Heres some job websites..Anyone who doesnt agree with me is lazy and deserves their dole to be cut..Come on lads get the finger out...No excuses now"
    How do you expect me not to take it personally???I have done nothing wrong..Its just a slowdown in case you hadnt noticed...FFS
    Thats why you serve no actual use for this thread IMHO...
    I have no problem with someone saying to cut the dole for long term abusers of the dole.Those who never have the inclination or will to work and never will..How many of that demographic are reading these threads though...So in going that route...It is a hopeless argument.We all know what should be done..Its up to the govt to do that..(I won't hold my breath)..This idea of scoring points against people like myself caught in a very tough situation at the moment is pure WUM..


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    #232
    Dublin_Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    CorkFenian wrote: »
    Your opinion is ignorant, misleading and is something I guarantee you if you said to these people in person.You wouldn't last long..You're what I would call a "keyboard hardman"..You're a WUM plain and simple..What do you do for a living??Mr High and Mighty..The very small points which you make that are reasonable are obvious and are completely negated by putting everyone else in the same pot.
    You say you've criticized your friends..Great stuff..Save this crap for them then...
    There is no defense for calling people lazy like you have been doing...You don't know anything about people on this site.Pretty sad TBH..Do you actually know whats going on at the moment...The economy is dead for new hires\contracts..Lazy lazy posting on your behalf..

    There you go insulting me, and taking my posts personally yourself. Good stuff.

    What I do for a living is absolutely none of your business Mr. Fenian.


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    #233
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    CorkFenian, if you have a problem with a post, report it, and we'll deal with it if we deem appropriate.

    Let's keep this on-topic.


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    #234
    mealone43
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭mealone43


    CorkFenian wrote: »
    Your opinion is ignorant, misleading and is something I guarantee you if you said to these people in person.You wouldn't last long..You're what I would call a "keyboard hardman"..You're a WUM plain and simple..What do you do for a living??Mr High and Mighty..The very small points which you make that are reasonable are obvious and are completely negated by putting everyone else in the same pot.
    You say you've criticized your friends..Great stuff..Save this crap for them then...
    There is no defense for calling people lazy like you have been doing...You don't know anything about people on this site.Pretty sad TBH..Do you actually know whats going on at the moment...The economy is dead for new hires\contracts..Lazy lazy juvenile posting on your behalf..
    With regard to taking it personally..Your view is more or less...
    "Lads theres loads of work out there..Heres some job websites..Anyone who doesnt agree with me is lazy and deserves their dole to be cut..Come on lads get the finger out...No excuses now"
    How do you expect me not to take it personally???I have done nothing wrong..Its just a slowdown in case you hadnt noticed...FFS
    Thats why you serve no actual use for this thread IMHO...
    Excellent response to that Nootna. I was shocked to read his drivvle and am shocked at people's attitude to the, through no fault of their own, unemployed. How dare they? We paid into the system all our lives and I for one do not like being unemployed but have no embarrassment in getting the Jobseekers Allowance. I paid for it and I get my entitlement, more than I can say about the Government.


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    #235
    CorkFenian
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭CorkFenian


    Dublin_Gunner wrote: »
    Less, yes. None? No.

    Jobs?? Oh yeah..

    http://www.irishjobs.ie/

    http://jobsearch.monster.ie/Browse.aspx

    http://www.recruitireland.com/hotjobs/

    Wow...Great groundbreaking advice...U really are quite the hotshot!!
    The govt should hire you to head up their upcoming jobs taskforce..Inspirational!!!


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    #236
    mealone43
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭mealone43


    CorkFenian wrote: »
    Wow...Great groundbreaking advice...U really are quite the hotshot!!
    The govt should hire you to head up their upcoming jobs taskforce..Inspirational!!!
    Actually on that point, I noticed that some companies are running the same ads for weeks and are we to accept that they dont find a suitable applicant. I can name 4 Employment agencies who advertise for a service manager in Limerick and that job does not exist. Another advertises for a maintenance manager in the west but guess what, they cant find somebody? They fill their pages with non existant jobs IMHO.


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    #237
    Dublin_Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    mealone43 wrote: »
    Excellent response to that Nootna. I was shocked to read his drivvle and am shocked at people's attitude to the, through no fault of their own, unemployed. How dare they? We paid into the system all our lives and I for one do not like being unemployed but have no embarrassment in getting the Jobseekers Allowance. I paid for it and I get my entitlement, more than I can say about the Government.


    If you've actually read the first post in this thread, and understand the topic, you would see that my points are all valid. Once again, I really wish people on the 'net would stop taking posts so personally. Jebus.

    I've never once stated that people who are entitled to it shouldn't get it, but have however stated that there should be an onus on the government to try get the unemployed back to work. If a lot are earning nearly as much on the dole - then where do they get the drive to actually go out and get a job? Look at the system in the UK, there is no way you'd want to stay on their benefit scheme, as the low payments in general give people the want / need to go out an get a job. The same just cannot be said for here though.


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    #238
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Dublin_Gunner wrote: »
    If you've actually read the first post in this thread, and understand the topic, you would see that my points are all valid. Once again, I really wish people on the 'net would stop taking posts so personally. Jebus.

    I've never once stated that people who are entitled to it shouldn't get it, but have however stated that there should be an onus on the government to try get the unemployed back to work. If a lot are earning nearly as much on the dole - then where do they get the drive to actually go out and get a job? Look at the system in the UK, there is no way you'd want to stay on their benefit scheme, as the low payments in general give people the want / need to go out an get a job. The same just cannot be said for here though.

    So we should try to make the lives of citizens actively unpleasant if they are unable to find work. Nice.

    repelled,
    Scofflaw


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    #239
    mealone43
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭mealone43


    Dublin_Gunner wrote: »
    If you've actually read the first post in this thread, and understand the topic, you would see that my points are all valid. Once again, I really wish people on the 'net would stop taking posts so personally. Jebus.

    I've never once stated that people who are entitled to it shouldn't get it, but have however stated that there should be an onus on the government to try get the unemployed back to work. If a lot are earning nearly as much on the dole - then where do they get the drive to actually go out and get a job? Look at the system in the UK, there is no way you'd want to stay on their benefit scheme, as the low payments in general give people the want / need to go out an get a job. The same just cannot be said for here though.
    So we cut the Jobseekers Allowance? I havew no problem with that as long as I get a lump sum for all my contributions over the years and the currently employed can pay for that. No problem


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    #240
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Dublin_Gunner wrote: »
    If you've actually read the first post in this thread, and understand the topic, you would see that my points are all valid. Once again, I really wish people on the 'net would stop taking posts so personally. Jebus.

    I've never once stated that people who are entitled to it shouldn't get it, but have however stated that there should be an onus on the government to try get the unemployed back to work. If a lot are earning nearly as much on the dole - then where do they get the drive to actually go out and get a job? Look at the system in the UK, there is no way you'd want to stay on their benefit scheme, as the low payments in general give people the want / need to go out an get a job. The same just cannot be said for here though.

    So the solution to them finding it difficult to find work is to make them look undernourished, badly dressed (since they can't afford clothes now) and depressed (since they can't afford to do anything).

    I heard those people are first choice for jobs.


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    #241
    ckristo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭ckristo2


    I don't know if Dublin_Gunner has heard the latest news. There are over 300,000 people on the live register in the Republic of Ireland because there is no work.
    And if people on the dole are better off financially than those working then the wages out there must be very low indeed and shame on any employer who is offering less than Dole in wages. I was unemployed in the late 1980's and early 90's and know the misery of unemployment. Even with a few nixers here and there you are basically living in poverty.
    If anything I'd increase the dole to cope with the huge poverty crash that's going to affect thousands of people in the next year.


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