Cut the dole!! Way too many leeches

Dublin_Gunner

ckristo2 wrote: »

I don't know if Dublin_Gunner has heard the latest news. There are over 300,000 people on the live register in the Republic of Ireland because there is no work.
And if people on the dole are better off financially than those working then the wages out there must be very low indeed and shame on any employer who is offering less than Dole in wages. I was unemployed in the late 1980's and early 90's and know the misery of unemployment. Even with a few nixers here and there you are basically living in poverty.
If anything I'd increase the dole to cope with the huge poverty crash that's going to affect thousands of people in the next year.

And yet another person looking at my posts and assuming I'm tarring everyone with the same brush. **sigh**

So you think INCREASING benefits will help the country get back on its feet?? There's not enough money there to support our welfare system for much longer, so increasing it short term will only lead to it being cut much further in the long term.

And for all of you getting all defensive and attempting to personally insult me, maybe I should re-quote my posts:

The amount of 'dole heads' you see around the place that you know have never had a job in their lives, yet can afford to go to the off licence just about every day for a few beers and smokes with their mates -

Maybe you lot fall into the above category, hence the attitude toward my posts.

However I totally agree that (hopefully) the vast majority claiming the dole are not there by choice, but by necessity. There are however thousands that are claiming that shouldn't be, and this is where the government really need to clamp down.

Whats wrong with stating that?

There is millions being spent on benefits that are not being claimed justly, and this in turn effects the benefits of those that truly need them.

If the false claimants were clamped down, there would have probably been no need to reduce any of the benefit expenditure in the recent budget. But as per usual, the government takes the easy way out - instead of spending a bit more to eradicate the problem, they punish the majority who rely on the benefits that are being claimed honestly.

Or that? Or maybe you people are the ones who aren't claiming justly?

To be honest, I see no reason for the personal attacks I'm receiving for having an opinion on the subject. If you really want to get that upset by someones opinion on an internet board, be my guest.

If people would actually take the time to read the posts, instead of jumping on the bandwagon and only reading the small bits they; for some reason, take offence to, there would be no animosity in this thread.

So please, stop being so narrow minded and assuming these posts are directed at YOU.

KyussBishop

Wrote up a big pissed off reply yesterday, regarding some of the ugly ignorant posts in this thread, and am glad I decided not to post it as I'd have spent a long long time following up the flames. Instead, here is an article I read on the Irish Times website which I thought would be quite relevant to this thread:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0421/1224245068469.html

If someone is scamming the dole and you have definitive proof, and they are obviously not just scraping by, i.e. losing the dole wouldn't cause them to become homeless or unable to provide for a family (just use some common moral sense), then by all means, go ahead and report them.

However, it is wrong, but not entirely uncommon, for people to spread gossip about a person on the dole, speculating that they are scamming it or are 'just lazy', and causing people to harass that person as a result.
I'd imagine that could be one reason why there's such a big stigma associated with being on the dole (though there may be less of a stigma now, seeing as so many people are signing on), as even if you absolutely need it and have no choice in the matter, it can still make you a target for unfair abuse.

CorkFenian

KyussBishop wrote: »

Wrote up a big pissed off reply yesterday, regarding some of the ugly ignorant posts in this thread, and am glad I decided not to post it as I'd have spent a long long time following up the flames. Instead, here is an article I read on the Irish Times website which I thought would be quite relevant to this thread:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0421/1224245068469.html

If someone is scamming the dole and you have definitive proof, and they are obviously not just scraping by, i.e. losing the dole wouldn't cause them to become homeless or unable to provide for a family (just use some common moral sense), then by all means, go ahead and report them.

However, it is wrong, but not entirely uncommon, for people to spread gossip about a person on the dole, speculating that they are scamming it or are 'just lazy', and causing people to harass that person as a result.
I'd imagine that could be one reason why there's such a big stigma associated with being on the dole (though there may be less of a stigma now, seeing as so many people are signing on), as even if you absolutely need it and have no choice in the matter, it can still make you a target for unfair abuse.

Cheers KyussBishop..Thanks for posting that..Great article..I feel the same about those posters you mention..Just have to leave them off for the most part...Looking for work since January 2009.I and thousands of people like me owe those sad people individuals nothing..No point in talking to them...Bloodsuckers IMHO..BTW just to confirm that

-I never said that benefits should be increased.As I have stated before in previous posts.
-I never go drinking in the afternoon or during the week...I have a few pints every 3rd weekend...Sometimes longer
-They should cut down on dole fraud..No one here has said that they shouldn't...As I said those demographic of people do not read these threads..So its pointless going too far into it..

Finally there are 100's of fake jobs on job sites..Which makes it makes it very frustrating at the moment for me and I'm sure..1000s like me..

Executive Steve

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

And I seriously doubt the 'high end tax dodgers' as you call them account for anywhere near the amount that benefit fraudsters do.

LOL

Dublin_Gunner

Has this turned into a 'lets start hatin' Dublin_Gunner' thread??

How very sad.

ckristo2

Forgive me I was not attempting to personalise my comments but this Thread is so long I wanted to direct my statement to the person who originated it.
I don't think cutting or clamping down on anything (except maybe tax havens/loopholes/millionaire phoney foreign citizenship) is supposed to "get the country on it's feet."
The "PLEASE MAKE IT BETTER" attitude of the moneyed right toward the economy is a waste of emotion. Ireland and it's citizens did not make the economic miracle of 1993-2007 and we didn't make the mess of the sub-prime mortgages crisis of last year either and we certainly do not have the financial clout to Make it all better/Fix Humpty Dumpty again.
All we can do is what any good family faced with a crisis can do and that's Look after one another.
We do not want a huge percentage of our citizens living in poverty therefore we need to increase the miserable social welfare payments that people are expected to live on at present.

K-9

ckristo2 wrote: »

We do not want a huge percentage of our citizens living in poverty therefore we need to increase the miserable social welfare payments that people are expected to live on at present.

Have you see how much the country takes in with tax revenue and spends on SW?

thebman

Yeah, there is no way we can increase payments. They are generous enough as is.

I expect them to be lowered in the next budget when cost of living comes down enough.

Dan Akroyd

Brian Lenihan was on RTE after the last budget and stated that 2/3 of all government spending was social welfare and public spending. The high dole figure of €204 a week is not the only issue.

We need to restrict paying the dole to any non irish citizens for a period of at least 5 years upon entering the country. Unless I am wrong we are also paying the dole to any non national who has been working for 2 years and has lost his/her job and is now entitled to the dole INDEFINITELY!.

If this is indeed the case its totally crazy-non irish people should only be entitled to benefits when they are made redundant for the period of time that they were previously employed. I simply don't understand why these 2 issues are not looked into. I'm open to correction on the above though.

Dublin_Gunner

Dan Akroyd wrote: »

Brian Lenihan was on RTE after the last budget and stated that 2/3 of all government spending was social welfare and public spending. The high dole figure of €204 a week is not the only issue.

We need to restrict paying the dole to any non irish citizens for a period of at least 5 years upon entering the country. Unless I am wrong we are also paying the dole to any non national who has been working for 2 years and has lost his/her job and is now entitled to the dole INDEFINITELY!.

If this is indeed the case its totally crazy-non irish people should only be entitled to benefits when they are made redundant for the period of time that they were previously employed. I simply don't understand why these 2 issues are not looked into. I'm open to correction on the above though.

Unfortunately I believe we are bound by international & Irish law to pay SW to foreign workers who have been living / working here.

The only legitimate way of cutting that down would be to decrease the number of Visa's that are granted in the first place.

Its funny, because before this crash happened, I had a completely different attitude. I wanted MORE foreign workers to live / work here, as our population was too small to support an economy of such growth.

As the number of workers increased, as the economy grew, and we were earning plenty of money through tax. and had a massively reduced SW bill - the government mismanaged the situation. I'm sure that doesn't need explaining to anyone here.

Now, the problem is, our SW system is putting a serious strain on our economy as a whole - but there's really not much can be done about it unless A) more jobs are created SW is cut / limited / managed more effectively.

I know its difficult for people who are now relying on SW to understand that they're payments may be cut - but these are not the people I directed ANY of my previous posts towards.

If the dole scammers / foreigners who are literally flying back to claim SW, and other benefit fraudsters were cut out of the equation, the SW bill could be reduced significantly.

I'm not in any way advocating a cut in SW to those that deserve and need it, but in the short term, until the other problems with the system are sorted out, there is probably no other option for the government.

nice_guy80

never said people who claim dole cannot drive cars etc

however, to see them driving in with 08 Audi A4s, souped up boy racing cars etc was unreal. i don't drive anything near a good car and i have a decent enough job

you'd think they'd cut their cloth to measure their unemployment status. but no, they must be well able to afford these fancy cars with the amount of money they get for nothing from the state

97i9y3941

dont mean to sound smart or funny but why do they pay it to people who are gonna drink it away or shoot it up their arm feeding an addiction,whilst a homeless person in the same position would be told F off because they dont have a address to claim it in the first place,the nationals,well they are e.u citizens alot of them did contribute to the state so they are entitled to it,only grumbleing i heard was on joe duffy show when the self employed people who had the 2 houses and the jeeps during the boom whingeing they werent entilted to the dole because they didnt contribute to the state at the time.

thebman

nice_guy80 wrote: »

never said people who claim dole cannot drive cars etc

however, to see them driving in with 08 Audi A4s, souped up boy racing cars etc was unreal. i don't drive anything near a good car and i have a decent enough job

you'd think they'd cut their cloth to measure their unemployment status. but no, they must be well able to afford these fancy cars with the amount of money they get for nothing from the state

They most likely have the cars from before they were made unemployed. You expect them to sell their car (difficult enough in the current climate) just to make you feel better?

It doesn't cost anything extra to run their current car over another car that isn't as flash in most cases.

P. Breathnach

nice_guy80 wrote: »

never said people who claim dole cannot drive cars etc

however, to see them driving in with 08 Audi A4s, souped up boy racing cars etc was unreal. i don't drive anything near a good car and i have a decent enough job

you'd think they'd cut their cloth to measure their unemployment status. but no, they must be well able to afford these fancy cars with the amount of money they get for nothing from the state

I imagine many of those signing on now had decent enough jobs until recently, and bought their cars when they could afford them.

97i9y3941

thebman wrote: »

They most likely have the cars from before they were made unemployed. You expect them to sell their car (difficult enough in the current climate) just to make you feel better?

It doesn't cost anything extra to run their current car over another car that isn't as flash in most cases.

i was about to say that but,made me think aswell,the cost of running them cars does cost a good bit

P. Breathnach

Fred83 wrote: »

i was about to say that but,made me think aswell,the cost of running them cars does cost a good bit

You might find that those people with expensive cars generally cling to the hope that they will not be claiming for long, and will find another decently-paid job soon.

I'd wait another six months before shopping for a good used BMW or Audi.

thebman

Fred83 wrote: »

i was about to say that but,made me think aswell,the cost of running them cars does cost a good bit

Yes but they are useful for getting to job interviews especially if you live outside Dublin where public transport is non-existent.

Don't know what costs more, taxis or cost or running a car. Oh and they are necessary just to apply for some jobs which involving moving to more than one location.

spank_inferno

I dont think the previous posters were refering to recently unemployed as spongers for having nearly new cars.

But many of us live in small towns and I "know to see" if you will, many people who have never worked driving high end vehicles around the town.
In the case of my home town the small time drug dealing probably helps keep the car on the road.

My solution?
Unemployed more than a year? - social welfare reduced by 25%
2 years = 50%

to qualify for full level dole you must have worked for a least 4 months in your last job, to avoid "job hopping"

deadhead13

Not all unemployed people get the same amount. Jobseekers benefit is paid to those who have paid at least 260 PRSI contributions. This benefit is paid for a maximum of 12 months. The amount of money you recieve is then reduced.

ckristo2

I suppose the government wouldn't have to spend so much on Social Welfare payments if the prices in this country were not so high.
The dole is not a mechanism to fix the economy it is a safety net to provide for those who have no work. It is kept deliberately below or just at the poverty line to discourage people from availing of it. Some people work part time and claim the dole but very very few of those have a life style you could describe as comfortable let alone luxurious.
In recent years making a claim has become increasingly difficult with bank account details, savings, landlord documentation, rent, mortgage repayments where you worked ten years ago and for who and how much your father earned and almost a letter from the Pope needed before they'll even see you.
If only we could re-orientate our thinking and stop imagining it's the unemployed who have caused this crisis.
In this crazy world Robin Hood robs from the poor to give to the rich and we don't even think there's anything wrong with that.

nice_guy80

yeah, but if you are making repayments to your bank for a large loan to pay off the AUDI or BMW i think it would be very sensible to trade in the big car for a smaller model and cut your outgoings?

or maybe i'm just living in the real world and the rest of these people aren't

thebman

In the real world at the moment, it probably won't cover the loan if you sell the car let alone make the repayments for a lot of people.

Again its nitpicking and because it makes some people happy to see these people get rid of something that is visually luxurious and a sign of status in society rather than logic that makes people say these things.

Maybe they are paying the loans out of savings in which case they can do whatever the hell they like with their personal money. Hell they'll probably have paid into PRSI too so they are entitled to do what they will with that money too since they it is the fund they paid into and not a hand out like so many here seem to think.

johnnyc

ah i would say cut the politicians wages first. their the leeches

97i9y3941

spank_inferno wrote: »

I dont think the previous posters were refering to recently unemployed as spongers for having nearly new cars.

But many of us live in small towns and I "know to see" if you will, many people who have never worked driving high end vehicles around the town.
In the case of my home town the small time drug dealing probably helps keep the car on the road.

My solution?
Unemployed more than a year? - social welfare reduced by 25%
2 years = 50%

to qualify for full level dole you must have worked for a least 4 months in your last job, to avoid "job hopping"

its been well known for gangsters/criminals to get the dole,because they have "no income"

WillieCocker

I know of a couple who are both on the dole and have been for 15+ years, have 2 cars, and 2 children & a council house.
Total scabs, kids living in poverty.
Ireland is full of them.

97i9y3941

WillieCocker wrote: »

I know of a couple who are both on the dole and have been for 15+ years, have 2 cars, and 2 children & a council house.
Total scabs, kids living in poverty.
Ireland is full of them.

i could never get that,how people can go on it for so long and not be called in for a review,anyways,another reversal of this recession i see is people who used to look down at you during the boom or who where giving out about outsiders doing the small jobs, are now applying for low skill jobs,i.e dublin yesterday 500 people turned up for a job at a londis newsagents!

WillieCocker

Fred83 wrote: »

,i.e dublin yesterday 500 people turned up for a job at a londis newsagents!

Yea i heard that. amazing.:eek:
Just shows there are loads of people prepared to do anything for employment.

97i9y3941

i say alot of them spent and bought like mad ejits during the boom so are under pressure to pay the bills!

WillieCocker

There's a lot of people in that situation.

thebman

WillieCocker wrote: »

I know of a couple who are both on the dole and have been for 15+ years, have 2 cars, and 2 children & a council house.
Total scabs, kids living in poverty.
Ireland is full of them.

I don't think that is possible. How do you know they were on the dole that long?

Maybe they got a job and went back on it later.

There are too many assumptions from people that casually observe other people in their neighborhood and then report on it as if it is fact.

You can't possibly know they were on the dole for 15 years. I don't think they'd still be getting their payments if that was the case and they weren't trying to get a job and had all of what you say.

edit==

Oh and Ireland is not full of them, really generalise much?