The GAA at it again

cournioni

stovelid wrote: »

For a club with such independence from the wider GAA, they don't seem to be taking sole responsibility for paying their astronomical legal fees following the comprehensive hiding they received in court.

Again, most clubs receive funds from the GAA. It is up to the clubs how they use that funding.

CiaranC

Theres little point responding to Pornapster.

Hes a classic GAA head. When the GAA are caught out with their despicable behaviour, its the responsibility of the individual or an individual club. When the GAA do something perceived to be positive, its down to the wonderful organisation which we are all jealous of.

They know well what Tallaght was about. That Thomas Davis, and the GAA by proxy, be (quote) "the last man standing" and that "a diet of association football" be prevented in the area. That they drag proceedings out long enough that our fan-owned, volunteer-run club go bankrupt in the process.

They spinned their sickening lies all through that campaign, painted us a greedy corporation because we pay our part-time players €200 a week to live on (while the simultaneously lobbying the government to pay their players from the public purse), banned sitting TDs from their clubhouses, ignored the fact that they were handed a site and the promise of taxpayer help to build on it in Rathcoole, pretended that putting a GAA pitch into the existing site was feasible without any more redesign or reconstruction, when it was no more feasible than putting a golf course on the site, delay after delay after delay as soon as the decision was made to complete the site.

The spent over a million euro on trying to ensure that this stadium didnt happen. A million euro that could have gone into all this wonderful work they supposedly do in the "community". I hope they enjoy paying it back to the courts for wasting everyones time.

The only reason we had any hope of surviving this onslaught is that it was taken up at national political level, and our 22 year struggle to find a home resonated with a couple of politicians who remembered us from a time when football used to be popular on this island, alongside seeing the potential vote winning stance in the local area. I firmly believe that practically any other club in the country would have buckled under the pressure, not having the unique set of political circumstances the history of struggle and the mania to finally get home that people in SRFC had.

This exposed in the open and for all to see the policy of the GAA, an openly political organisation akin to those of 1930s Europe, which exists to promote their distasteful brand of cultural nationalism, with a few made-up sports tacked on to help promote these backward notions. The membership might be ordinary Joes, but I dont see any great movement to make any changes, do you?

SRFC Tallaght 2009.

Des

Des wrote: »

Again, the directive to plough the field came from Croke Park, so in this case the GAA club in Kerry were acting on the orders of the National Body.

Why can't GAA people grasp that?

Cause you don't understand what you are talking about. When you refer to the FAI or the LOI you are speaking about the people who run it.

When we talk about the GAA we mean the people in every town and village in Ireland. When you say you hate the GAA I assume you mean me directly as a member and I am not even the most active member of the GAA, people who give dozens of hours each week to the development of their club (and the local club is the absolute heart of the GAA) take statements like:

DSB wrote: »

Bigoted joke of an organisation.

and

DSB wrote: »

LOL at my example, but I'm sure there were decent and honest members of the Nazi party, who disagreed with the actions of their leaders, that doesn't change the fact that the GAA would willingly eradicate soccer from Ireland.

As personal attacks on something they love.


Oh, and this is to you Des. I used to respect you but to be so stupid as to post something like this, branding all members of the GAA as bigots, rednecks and "gahzi's" has made me realise how bitter you are.

Des wrote: »

Everyone in the GAA IS the same

"ah shure, tis nawthin te dew wit me shure, that was dowin in Kerry so it was, nawtin te dew wit me at all, at all, well holy god"

You are the epitome of this mindset.

Are you going to bring this incident up with your club to take to county and ultimately national lever?

Thought not, shure, it doesn't affect you.

Just like Tallaght didn't affect you, just like Lusk doesn't affect you.

This act of ploughing the field was nothing short of reprehensible behaviour by a group of rednecked bigots, typical of those in power in the GAA up and down the land, from under twelve to senior county to national council.

Nothing has changed.

Gahzis.

Here's a few pieces of information you might like:

1. Many if not most GAA people disagree with what happened in Tallaght and as someone who lives about 10 minutes away from Lusk and knows many GAA people in Fingal all that they want is to be included in a fantastic new facility that hopefully will help drive Sporting Fingal into the Eircom League.

2. You had a poor experience with the GAA. Get over it. I have been attacked at Eircom League games (Drogheda v St. Pat's by the away fans) but I don't hate the FAI. I have played a junior game for a GAA club in Ovens in Cork and been knocked unconscious by a big hateful focker who kept calling me "townie" and decided to catch me with a high tackle "to show me who's boss". (He also stayed in the hospital with me till I was discharged covered in muck and annoying the nursing staff in CUH to be fair) GAA is a dog rough game at local club level, just like soccer and rugby are. Singling out GAA is nonsense.

3. Most GAA fans and players also like soccer and rugby. Like most people they are sports fans as well as GAA fans.

4. Look over at the GAA forum and you will see that the vast majority of posters there abhor the actions of the members of Castlemaine GAA club who did this.


So why don't you drop your righteous indignation and take a moment to realise that what you are saying about GAA people is hateful and unnecessary.

therecklessone

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Most GAA clubs have financial backing from the GAA, it doesn't mean that Croke Park actively participates in the court proceedings.

The GAA were fully aware of the conduct of the case, so in giving material support to Thomas Davis they facilitated it's attempt to deny Rovers a future in Tallaght.

Just because one member from one GAA CLUB wants to see a soccer team out of business doesn't mean that all GAA members want to see a soccer team out of business. Now is that hard for you to grasp??

And what of the submission by Tomas Davis that "the youth of Tallaght will be restricted to a diet of Association football' and that a soccer-only ground would place the 'applicant at a severe disadvantage in attracting the youth of Tallaght to the club, the sport and the GAA culture"? They knew that the changes they were demanding would severely dent the financial viability of Tallaght Stadium as a home for Rovers.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

As was said before, I would highly doubt that the GAA would give the go ahead to plough the pitch unless the GAA club in question actually owned the pitch.

According to a member of MIlltown/Castlemaine the GAA instructed them to put a stop to soccer being played on GAA property or face expulsion from county competition. They didn't order the midnight ploughing, but they are complicit in it.

Hard Worker

At the time of the Tallaght Stadium issue, Thomas Davis GAA club notified all their members ( some of whom were Rovers fans ) not to vote for Conor Lenihan in the following elections as he supported the SDCC and Rovers campaign. Of course, the GAA are not a political organisation, allegedly.

cournioni

CiaranC wrote: »

Theres little point responding to Pornapster.

Hes a classic GAA head. When the GAA are caught out with their despicable behaviour, its the responsibility of the individual or an individual club. When the GAA do something perceived to be positive, its down to the wonderful organisation which we are all jealous of.

They know well what Tallaght was about. That Thomas Davis, and the GAA by proxy, be (quote) "the last man standing" and that "a diet of association football" be prevented in the area. That they drag proceedings out long enough that our fan-owned, volunteer-run club go bankrupt in the process.

They spinned their sickening lies all through that campaign, painted us a greedy corporation because we pay our part-time players €200 a week to live on (while the simultaneously lobbying the government to pay their players from the public purse), banned sitting TDs from their clubhouses, ignored the fact that they were handed a site and the promise of taxpayer help to build on it in Rathcoole, pretended that putting a GAA pitch into the existing site was feasible without any more redesign or reconstruction, when it was no more feasible than putting a golf course on the site, delay after delay after delay as soon as the decision was made to complete the site.

The spent over a million euro on trying to ensure that this stadium didnt happen. A million euro that could have gone into all this wonderful work they supposedly do in the "community". I hope they enjoy paying it back to the courts for wasting everyones time.

The only reason we had any hope of surviving this onslaught is that it was taken up at national political level, and our 22 year struggle to find a home resonated with a couple of politicians who remembered us from a time when football used to be popular on this island, alongside seeing the potential vote winning stance in the local area. I firmly believe that practically any other club in the country would have buckled under the pressure, not having the unique set of political circumstances the history of struggle and the mania to finally get home that people in SRFC had.

This exposed in the open and for all to see the policy of the GAA, an openly political organisation akin to those of 1930s Europe, which exists to promote their distasteful brand of cultural nationalism, with a few made-up sports tacked on to help promote these backward notions. The membership might be ordinary Joes, but I dont see any great movement to make any changes, do you?

SRFC Tallaght 2008.

I see, a classic GAA head that spends up to €10000 following Soccer each year. Very informed post mate. Well done.

You have already shown up your ignorance on GAA matters in this thread so don't go around banding me "a classic GAA head" unless you have something to back it up.

You have no idea how the GAA is run.

_blank_

Deleted User wrote: »

So why don't you drop your righteous indignation

Erm, I have, did you not see the apology for the language used upthread?

Des

Des wrote: »

Erm, I have, did you not see the apology for the language used upthread?

I apologise Des, must have missed it. My bad.

stovelid

Deleted User wrote: »

When we talk about the GAA we mean the people in every town and village in Ireland. When you say you hate the GAA I assume you mean me directly as a member and I am not even the most active member of the GAA, people who give dozens of hours each week to the development of their club (and the local club is the absolute heart of the GAA)
.

While I don't dispute this, why do you assume that the inverse applies to 'soccer'? That thousands of unpaid volunteers all over the country don't work with junior clubs that have been in the community for years? That thousands of volunteers (right up to LOI level) don't flog lotto, volunteer and pay their subscriptions too?

Or do Brit sports not count as community sports?

CiaranC

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I see, a classic GAA head that spends up to €10000 following Soccer each year. Very informed post mate. Well done.

You are a classic GAA head. When the GAA does good, its the association in all its glories which is responsible. When it acts the bollox, its down to individuals, and then you deny it ever happened at all.

I fail to see what the €150 euro you spent going to see Dundalk FC and the 9 and a half grand you spent on plane tickets and hotels and match tickets in England has to do with anything. Lots of GAA fans are "soccer" fans.

You have already shown up your ignorance on GAA matters in this thread so don't go around banding me "a classic GAA head" unless you have something to back it up.

You have no idea how the GAA is run.

Im all too familiar with how the GAA is run Im afraid, having witnessed it first hand.

cournioni

stovelid wrote: »

While I don't dispute this, why do you assume that the inverse applies to 'soccer'? That thousands of unpaid volunteers all over the country don't work with junior clubs that have been in the community for years? That thousands of volunteers (right up to LOI level) don't flog lotto, volunteer and pay their subscriptions too?

Or do Brit sports not count as community sports?

Where has he made that assumption? He is merely pointing out that when people are talking about the GAA they are talking about every member in the country. When you are talking about Thomas Davis or any other GAA club, you are talking about that club. No one here is attacking Soccer, we wouldn't post here if we were.

stovelid

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

When you are talking about Thomas Davis or any other GAA club, you are talking about that club. No one here is attacking Soccer

When I talk about Thomas Davis, it's hard to discuss the monkey without the organ grinder.

stovelid

stovelid wrote: »

While I don't dispute this, why do you assume that the inverse applies to 'soccer'? That thousands of unpaid volunteers all over the country don't work with junior clubs that have been in the community for years? That thousands of volunteers (right up to LOI level) don't flog lotto, volunteer and pay their subscriptions too?

Or do Brit sports not count as community spohttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=4rts?

It's not that at all. What I mean is that soccer fans do not associate themselves personally with the FAI or LOI. GAA members do directly associate themselves with the organisation as a whole so when you attack that you attack the people involved with it.

I am a registered member of the GAA and the Leinster Senior League (soccer). If someone says the FAI is **** then it doesn't affect me at all. Nor would it affect you I assume. However when people call the GAA "gahzis" or refer to "typical GAA heads" then it offends me.

cournioni

CiaranC wrote: »

You are a classic GAA head. When the GAA does good, its the association in all its glories which is responsible. When it acts the bollox, its down to individuals, and then you deny it ever happened at all.

I fail to see what the €150 euro you spent going to see Dundalk FC and the 9 and a half grand you spent on plane tickets and hotels and match tickets in England has to do with anything. Lots of GAA fans are "soccer" fans.

Im all too familiar with how the GAA is run Im afraid, having witnessed it first hand.

Do you have anything to back that up? Where on this forum have I praised the GAA for something that they've done. I may have praised the way it is run where all profits go into the grass roots from Croke Park, that is all. I see nothing wrong with that because its on a broad scale across the country.

Where as Thomas Davis and this incident in Kerry are not. You don't see it happening anywhere else in the country. I certainly haven't seen it happen in my county, although there is one tosser from Cavan with the same mentality as the two clubs I've previously mentioned. That is what you call isolated incidents. Quite similar to crowd trouble at some soccer matches, it does not represent soccer or soccer fans. I would have thought that was pretty easy to grasp.

Regarding your second paragraph there, most "proper" soccer fans must only follow soccer must they? Otherwise they're GAAH heads or rugger buggers are they? You sound more and more like a soccer version of some Thomas Davis members with each post mate, you really do.

You know nothing about the GAA. Simple as that.

_blank_

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone says the FAI is **** then it doesn't affect me at all. Nor would it affect you I assume.

Becasue "soccer-heads" can admit that the FAI is chock full of imbeciles.

Deleted User wrote: »

However when people call the GAA "gahzis" or refer to "typical GAA heads" then it offends me.

Because any criticism of the GAA from outside it's ranks is met with derisory cries of "you don't know anything about the GAA" to "ah well, it's nothing to do with me, I'm only an aul member".

Why don't you, as a member, take the issue up with your club/county board/at national level?

cournioni

Des wrote: »

Becasue "soccer-heads" can admit that the FAI is chock full of imbeciles.

Because any criticism of the GAA from outside it's ranks is met with derisory cries of "you don't know anything about the GAA" to "ah well, it's nothing to do with me, I'm only an aul member".

Why don't you, as a member, take the issue up with your club/county board/at national level?

We admit that there are some idiots in the GAA too. Its the same with any organisation. What we don't accept is that the whole GAA (meaning all of its members) are getting **** from soccer fans for it.

GAA members will always accept criticism as long as it is reasonable. However in most cases it isn't. It is normally just an attack on the whole sporting organisation, which I will always defend to the death.

Des

Des wrote: »

Becasue "soccer-heads" can admit that the FAI is chock full of imbeciles.

I have explicitly stated that the GAA has its dinosaurs at the top in the last post on page 3. The sooner they become a thing of the past the better.

Also, I never referred to "soccer heads" as I consider the term "GAA head" to be one that is meant in an offensive manner and would not stoop to that level.

Des wrote: »

Because any criticism of the GAA from outside it's ranks is met with derisory cries of "you don't know anything about the GAA" to "ah well, it's nothing to do with me, I'm only an aul member".

Where have I said that? I have repeatedly agreed that the actions of Castlemaine were abhorrent and disgraceful. The Thomas Davies affair was a complete debacle also and really shows up the mess that is the internal politics of the Dublin County Board. I have never, and will never, defend it. Nor has any member of my club.

Des wrote: »

Why don't you, as a member, take the issue up with your club/county board/at national level?

This is an area where not being an active member might place you at a disadvantage. In my club, and as far as I know at every club, we elect representatives to county board meetings but they are not compelled to vote as the club votes. Rather they are free to vote as they see fit at the actual council meeting, be it national or county level. That's why I made the earlier point about the new generation of members moving the association away from the idiotic mentality some of its more prominent and elder members are caught up in.

therecklessone

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

GAA members will always accept criticism as long as it is reasonable. However in most cases it isn't. It is normally just an attack on the whole sporting organisation, which I will always defend to the death.

Here's where I have a problem: you guys choose to identify yourselves as part of the body of the GAA, you identify with the Association and attach yourself to it. When posters attack the GAA you take offence as you see it as an attack on yourself, yet you fail to realise that the actions of entities within the GAA family reflect badly on you all precisely because you choose that connection to the Association

If people are aware of opposition to Thomas Davis vs SRFC within the GAA family then make that known here. You would do the image of your organisation a world of good.

That aside, I have a problem with Rule 44. Considering what we all face in the coming years financially, there are communities the length and breadth of this country that could benefit from acts of solidarity. Unfortunately, Rule 44 precludes cooperation between the different codes, and perpetuates the "them and us" mentality that has soured this debate.

Orizio

Woah woah woah...do you mean when an organisation does something good it shouldn't be praised?

Really this debate is dead. GAA people clearly think the actions of the club were wrong, and GAA people repeatedly attack the buerocrats above us. Wht more do you reasonably want?

If you want some kind of campaign of en masse letters/complaints to the Kerry County Board and Croker then again people are demanding standards that they never expect of themselves. Is everyone here sending letters/complaints to Castlemaine soccer about their vandalism? Does everyone here send letters/complaints to the FAI or their club everytime they do something wrong? How many have sent letters/complaints to Belfast about the inability of people to ensure security and stamp out bigotry at soccer games from last weekend? Beyond soccer, how many send letters/complaints everytime the state does something wrong, something illiberal or something undemocratic?

I mean I would like to bring my nieces/nephews to an international/club soccer match, but I dislike the booing, insults, diving and mediocre ability of Irish soccer teams - any chance the die-hard soccer posters on this site, no doubt players/members of their local clubs, could do something about the ****ty nature of Irish soccer? Besides saying they do something on ie boards? :rolleyes:

As I said, its hypocrisy and double standards, and little else.

EDIT: This post is aimed is no particular individual, just a general point.

cournioni

therecklessone wrote: »

Here's where I have a problem: you guys choose to identify yourselves as part of the body of the GAA, you identify with the Association and attach yourself to it. When posters attack the GAA you take offence as you see it as an attack on yourself, yet you fail to realise that the actions of entities within the GAA family reflect badly on you all precisely because you choose that connection to the Association

If people are aware of opposition to Thomas Davis vs SRFC within the GAA family then make that known here. You would do the image of your organisation a world of good.

That aside, I have a problem with Rule 44. Considering what we all face in the coming years financially, there are communities the length and breadth of this country that could benefit from acts of solidarity. Unfortunately, Rule 44 precludes cooperation between the different codes, and perpetuates the "them and us" mentality that has soured this debate.

I have no problem with SR fans attacking Thomas Davis GAA club. Nor do I have a problem with people attacking this club in Kerry if they have good reason to. They are not my clubs and I have no affinity with either of them. But they don't. They attack the GAA as an organisation. An attack on the GAA is an attack on me as a member.

therecklessone

Orizio wrote: »

If you want some kind of campaign of en masse letters/complaints to the Kerry County Board and Croker then again people are demanding standards that they never expect of themselves. Is everyone here sending letters/complaints to Castlemaine soccer about their vandalism? Does everyone here send letters/complaints to the FAI or their club everytime they do something wrong? How many have sent letters/complaints to Belfast about the inability of people to ensure security and stamp out bigotry at soccer games from last weekend? Beyond soccer, how many send letters/complaints everytime the state does something wrong, something illiberal or something undemocratic?

As I said, its hypocrisy, and little else.

EDIT: This post is aimed is no particular individual, just a general point.

I don't see the comparison.

You guys choose to circle the wagons when the GAA is criticised. I'm not a member of any organisation that vandalised a GAA pitch, you are a member of organisation which ordered the local GAA club to cease soccer access to the ground, therefore the GAA and it's members are complicit. Likewise, the GAA provided support to Thomas Davis in it's mean-spirited and bitter campaign against SRFC, financial support underpinned by the effort of volunteers up and down the country who continue to do good work and raise money to benefit the game. That reflects on you as members of the Association, unless you actively oppose it. Having a whinge on a message board then sitting on your hands in public counts for nothing IMO.

Like I said, if there's proof of opposition within the GAA then make it known, and people might soften their opinions.

therecklessone

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

They attack the GAA as an organisation. An attack on the GAA is an attack on me as a member.

An organisation that bears some responsibility for what has happened in both cases, is it that hard to see the links?

Jesus1222

I find it highly ironic that people are making these comments while whinging about the GAA and becoming hysterical over what was a very reasonable position on the local GAA club's part (Thomas Davis, not Kerry which was stupid and not even local GAA people agree with it). I find it ironic that these comments are made by soccer fans (exclusively soccer it seems, and I've yet to meet a GAA person in Dublin who did not like soccer on some level, even only Champions League / World Cup) who support an English team like they would a local team, putting thousands of euro into a billion euro corporate entity called a football club in a foreign country yet criticise the GAA for spending money going after public facilities for it's own clubs. The funny thing is it would have been cheaper for the authorities to involve the GAA as they would have contributed something to the facility financially. It was a mistake and it wouldn't happen today. Unfortunately, due to the farce that Shamrock Rovers are and have been due to them selling their own ground beneath themselves to develop property and wandering around like Moses in the desert for 20 odd years I doubt they were or are in a position to contribute ANYTHING to the stadium. They should be grateful they got anything and didn't go out of business.

The bile spewed at the GAA is disgraceful, you wonder who the sporting bigots are. The GAA has a duty to look after their own and the bottom line is a public sports facility should have been given to all sports, not just one professional soccer club.

As for the comments about GAA sports being "made up", every sport you watch on TV has been formalised somewhere along the line hasn't it? What an incredibly stupid and ignorant comment.

I am not a member of the GAA for that matter. I'm a fan of sports in general and a fan of the success and professionalism (in the best sense of the word) of the GAA and a critic of the mealy mouthing of hard done by soccer fans, who happen to throw around the bigot comment every time somebody disagrees with them. Look in the mirror guys.

therecklessone wrote: »

Here's where I have a problem: you guys choose to identify yourselves as part of the body of the GAA, you identify with the Association and attach yourself to it. When posters attack the GAA you take offence as you see it as an attack on yourself, yet you fail to realise that the actions of entities within the GAA family reflect badly on you all precisely because you choose that connection to the Association

If people are aware of opposition to Thomas Davis vs SRFC within the GAA family then make that known here. You would do the image of your organisation a world of good.

That aside, I have a problem with Rule 44. Considering what we all face in the coming years financially, there are communities the length and breadth of this country that could benefit from acts of solidarity. Unfortunately, Rule 44 precludes cooperation between the different codes, and perpetuates the "them and us" mentality that has soured this debate.

iregk

Jesus1222 wrote: »

The GAA has a duty to look after their own and the bottom line is a public sports facility should have been given to all sports, not just one professional soccer club.

So if the Rovers stadium should be open to the GAA why should the rule exist that bans other sports from using GAA grounds. Should it not go both ways?

The fact is your post is written with an over whelming ignorance to the situation that was Tallaght Stadium. I'm not going to rehash it, simply read through this thread and you will see the full extent of Thomas Davis/GAA's attempts at destroying Rovers.

therecklessone

iregk wrote: »

So if the Rovers stadium should be open to the GAA why should the rule exist that bans other sports from using GAA grounds. Should it not go both ways?

Public sports facility vs privately owned sports facility (albeit with some public funding at times)

There's your difference.

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

I find it ironic that these comments are made by soccer fans (exclusively soccer it seems, and I've yet to meet a GAA person in Dublin who did not like soccer on some level, even only Champions League / World Cup) who support an English team like they would a local team, putting thousands of euro into a billion euro corporate entity called a football club in a foreign country yet criticise the GAA for spending money going after public facilities for it's own clubs.

Have you read this thread at all, because you are making yourself look very foolish with this comment.

99% of the Soccer supporters in this thread support League Of Ireland teams.

:rolleyes:

Jesus1222

iregk wrote: »

So if the Rovers stadium should be open to the GAA why should the rule exist that bans other sports from using GAA grounds. Should it not go both ways?

Rovers didn't pay for and don't own the stadium. It's a public sports facility for a community. A professional soccer club shouldn't have a monopoly on it.

The fact is your post is written with an over whelming ignorance to the situation that was Tallaght Stadium. I'm not going to rehash it, simply read through this thread and you will see the full extent of Thomas Davis/GAA's attempts at destroying Rovers.

I doubt if their objective was to destroy Shamrock Rovers. More hysteria.

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

Have you read this thread at all, because you are making yourself look very foolish with this comment.

99% of the Soccer supporters in this thread support League Of Ireland teams.

:rolleyes:

Do you visit England to go to football matches? How many in the last 2 years and at what cost?

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

I doubt if their objective was to destroy Shamrock Rovers. More hysteria.

It was the explicitly stated objective of the Secretary of Thomas Davis.

So, not hysteria, just plain facts.

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Do you visit England to go to football matches? How many in the last 2 years and at what cost?

No, I support Shelbourne Football Club.

I get my weekly fix of live football from that.

It costs €15 to get into a match.

Any away trips I go on I usually get a lift.

For your information, the only exclusively Premier League supporter who has posted on the Soccer-side of this debate is Mr Alan, with one post in this thread.

The rest of the Soccer people, CiaranC, SectionF et al, are supporters of Bohemian FC, Shamrock Rovers FC, and I think a couple of Cork City supporters have chimed in also.

Where does that leave your assertion?

In fact, some of the "GAA People" have admitted to spending big bucks on going to England to support English sides.

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

No, I support Shelbourne Football Club.

I get my weekly fix of live football from that.

It costs €15 to get into a match.

Any away trips I go on I usually get a lift.

For your information, the only exclusively Premier League supporter who has posted on the Soccer-side of this debate is Mr Alan, with one post in this thread.

The rest of the Soccer people, CiaranC, SectionF et al, are supporters of Bohemian FC, Shamrock Rovers FC, and I think a couple of Cork City supporters have chimed in also.

Where does that leave your assertion?

Not sure as you didn't answer my question.

cournioni

therecklessone wrote: »

An organisation that bears some responsibility for what has happened in both cases, is it that hard to see the links?

What do you suggest the GAA do? Take away their funding?

The Thomas Davis vs SRFC case was a claim for PUBLIC land. If the GAA seen it as Thomas Davis staking their claim for public land for their own use I can't see why the GAA should refuse any funding. Now TD may have been staking their claim for reasons other than their own use but how are the GAA supposed to be held responsible for that?

Likewise with the case in Kerry. If it was the Milltown/Castlemaine GAA clubs land and were given the go ahead to plow the pitch, why should the GAA be held responsible?

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

It was the explicitly stated objective of the Secretary of Thomas Davis.

So, not hysteria, just plain facts.

Well the fact is the GAA pitch was dug up first, such is the prejudice and bigotry shown on this thread that the events were switched around. It was the GAA who acted first
according to them but that's not correct.

Do you have a source for this statement by Thomas Davis?

bohsman

"Following the nighttime ploughing of the sportsfield, which is regularly used by the local soccer club, a hole was dug in the middle of Milltown/ Castlemaine GAA pitch late on Saturday night, forcing an under-21 game to be moved to another venue on Sunday afternoon."

Reading comprehension ftw.

Ive spent 0 going to the mainland for games in the last 2 years btw and the same amount on english merchandise, whatever point that helps you prove.

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Do you visit England to go to football matches? How many in the last 2 years and at what cost?

Des wrote: »

No

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Not sure as you didn't answer my question.

Yes I did, perhaps you'll answer mine now, instead of dodging it..

Des wrote: »

Where does that leave your assertion?

************************

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Do you have a source for this statement by Thomas Davis?

Unless someone gets there before me, I'll dig out.

Does this mean you won't answer my first question though?

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

Yes I did, perhaps you'll answer mine now, instead of dodging it.

No you didn't.

How many times have you gone to England in the last 2 years and how much did you spend?

It's 2 numbers, not waffle.

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

No you didn't.

How many times have you gone to England in the last 2 years and how much did you spend?

It's 2 numbers, not waffle.

ok.

0 and 0.

Now, will you answer my question.

therecklessone

Jesus1222 wrote: »

No you didn't.

How many times have you gone to England in the last 2 years and how much did you spend?

It's 2 numbers, not waffle.

You asked him does he go to England for games, he said no. It's not that hard to extrapolate that he has spent €0 on football in England in the last 2 years.

Jesus1222

therecklessone wrote: »

You asked him does he go to England for games, he said no. It's not that hard to extrapolate that he has spent €0 on football in England in the last 2 years.

He didn't quite say no.

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

ok.

0 and 0.

Now, will you answer my question.

What question exactly?

bohsman

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Well the fact is the GAA pitch was dug up first, such is the prejudice and bigotry shown on this thread that the events were switched around. It was the GAA who acted first
according to them but that's not correct.

bohsman wrote: »

"Following the nighttime ploughing of the sportsfield, which is regularly used by the local soccer club, a hole was dug in the middle of Milltown/ Castlemaine GAA pitch late on Saturday night, forcing an under-21 game to be moved to another venue on Sunday afternoon."

Reading comprehension ftw.

conveniently ignoring this aswell. Or maybe the Kerryman are prejudiced and bigoted against the GAH aswell?

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

What question exactly?

OK, I've had enough.

You can read can't you?

Go back through the thread to before you started your bluster and find it for yourself.

Orizio

therecklessone wrote: »

I don't see the comparison.

You guys choose to circle the wagons when the GAA is criticised. I'm not a member of any organisation that vandalised a GAA pitch, you are a member of organisation which ordered the local GAA club to cease soccer access to the ground, therefore the GAA and it's members are complicit. Likewise, the GAA provided support to Thomas Davis in it's mean-spirited and bitter campaign against SRFC, financial support underpinned by the effort of volunteers up and down the country who continue to do good work and raise money to benefit the game. That reflects on you as members of the Association, unless you actively oppose it. Having a whinge on a message board then sitting on your hands in public counts for nothing IMO.

Like I said, if there's proof of opposition within the GAA then make it known, and people might soften their opinions.

Alright then - another comparison, a non-sport one. You are, I assume, an Irish (or English, not really relevent to the comparison) citizen, and do then pay taxes to the state. You fund the state, legitimise their actions by taking part of a democratic system then puts them in power and are thus complicit in their actions unless, going by what you say above, you leave the state and stop paying it taxes. You are partly responsible, through taxes and the democratic system, for their incompetent economic polices, or their immoral foreign policies towards the people of Gaza, Iraq etc - it doesn't really matter, the point is the state do things that you disagree with, but that you are complicit with because you fund it.

Of course you have options - you can refuse to pay taxes on the basis of your conscious dictats, you can move to somewhere corrupt like Italy where getting away with not paying taxes is easy or move to Sweden where the state may be more competent and reasonable. You can, if you wish, refuse to pay taxes to a state that doesn't do what you wish, but does what you feel may be unethical or immoral with your money.

My point isn't that we should all be leaving Ireland or refusing to pay taxes, rather my point is that it is unreasonable to expect us to act as such. Human beings are egoists, we act the bulk of the time in a way thatp uts ourseklves first, and view our world, very obviosuly, through our own personal senses and feelings. We act first and foremost for our personal benefit. We give tax to this particular state because we believe that the positives outweigh the negatives of being part of said state, that the security and materail beneftis of the state outweigh the considerations of some one suffering in a foreign country. Again, this to me is natural, reasonable to expect of human beings.

You can view our relationship with the state in a very similar way to our membership with organisations (sport organisations, trade unions, political parties etc). We join and fund them, even though every organisation is flawed and acts in ways that go against our morals, because we view the personal benefit of being part of the organisation as more important then any moral considerations. Likewise, I'd rather not give the Cork County Board a penny but I have to because I want to support my team in person. Similarly, I'm sure no one here wants to give Delaney and the FAI any of their money by going to Ireland vs Bulgaria, but they do so because they feel a certain consideration less important then folowing thier team in peson.

As far as I am concerned, our membership, or funding, of the state or any organisation essentially comes to the same thing. What happens to us personally outrages us far greater then what happens to other - its why if the state have a particurly abhorrent foreign policy, I may make some nominal attempts at criticism, completely to make me feel better and heal my ego, but if the state decided to kick me out of my house I would react most differently, because it would actually effect me personally. Likewise, I largely don't give a damn about Castlemaine - its in ****ing North Kerry or somewhere like that for christ sake - but if my local GAA club was to act in a similar way I would have a different reaction, again because it effects me personally.

This point about the vast majority of people acting in this way is that it has to effect us personally for us to truly act or have a sufficently angry reaction. This isn't an Orizio thing, it isn't a GAA thing, its a human thing, its what egoists do.

Jesus1222

bohsman wrote: »

conveniently ignoring this aswell. Or maybe the Kerryman are prejudiced and bigoted against the GAH aswell?

Typical soccer fan, the world is out to get you. I don't post back to you within 10 seconds so I'm ignoring you, relax a tad bit and wait for a reply.

therecklessone

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

What do you suggest the GAA do? Take away their funding?

I suggest in both cases that the Association look at the details carefully before blindly following the course of action chosen.

Demanding senior GAA access to Tallaght meant a redesign of the stadium, reducing it's possible capacity, thus threatening the viability of the project for SRFC and by extension the very survival of the club. Demanding access to all sports was ridiculous, would you support a demand that the stadium be made available for pitch and putt?

Thomas Davis were not fighting the good fight, they were trying to resist SRFC encroaching on their patch, which was clear from the "diet of Association Football" argument advanced during the legal proceedings.

A mature and conciliatory approach would have been to request council funding for further GAA developments away from Tallaght Stadium, to accept that the demand for senior access would make the future of another sporting club very precarious, and accept that as it was designed the stadium could accommodate junior Gaelic games.

The situation in Kerry is by no means as clear as "it's their land to do with as they please", and I believe the actions of the county board and further up the chain have damaged community relations in the area.

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

OK, I've had enough.

You can read can't you?

Go back through the thread to before you started your bluster and find it for yourself.

Less of the abuse. I honestly can't find any question.

Orizio

Orizio wrote: »

This point about the vast majority of people acting in this way is that it has to effect us personally for us to truly act or have a sufficently angry reaction. This isn't an Orizio thing, it isn't a GAA thing, its a human thing, its what egoists do.

Brilliant post. Explains it perfectly.

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Less of the abuse. I honestly can't find any question.

Here's some context

Jesus1222 wrote: »

I find it ironic that these comments are made by soccer fans (exclusively soccer it seems, and I've yet to meet a GAA person in Dublin who did not like soccer on some level, even only Champions League / World Cup) who support an English team like they would a local team, putting thousands of euro into a billion euro corporate entity called a football club in a foreign country yet criticise the GAA for spending money going after public facilities for it's own clubs.

Des wrote: »

99% of the Soccer supporters in this thread support League Of Ireland teams.

Here's the question now

Des wrote: »

Where does that leave your assertion?

I'll make it easier for you.

Are you still of the opinion that "these comments are made by soccer fans who support an English team like they would a local team, putting thousands of euro into a billion euro corporate entity called a football club in a foreign country"

Or do you now accept that you were, in fact, talking bullshít?

Jesus1222

Des wrote: »

Here's some context





Here's the question now

I'll make it easier for you.

Are you still of the opinion that "these comments are made by soccer fans who support an English team like they would a local team, putting thousands of euro into a billion euro corporate entity called a football club in a foreign country"

Or do you now accept that you were, in fact, talking bullshít?

That's rhetoric, not a question. I think it's yourself who needs to read back, seeing I was responding to somebody who identifies themselves as a member of Tottenham Hotspurs.
And you do seem to invest a lot of time talking about Manchester United.

_blank_

Jesus1222 wrote: »

That's rhetoric, not a question. I think it's yourself who needs to read back, seeing I was responding to somebody who identifies themselves as a member of Tottenham Hotspurs.

You directed the post at plural fans, did you not.

Nice piece of backtracking there.