Anyone planning to pick up a GTX 275 or a Radeon HD 4890

ColonelCarnage

So Nvidia and ATI have released new cards to dominate the 250 euros market and they both have a lot going for them and appear to be the new sweet spot for performance bang for buck upgrading at the moment and anandtech have a new review and comparison article out for both of them including benchmarks and spec tech. Its quite lenghty at near 20 pgs but it also goes into great detail about PhysX in games.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3539

Long story short appears to be the radeon for reso. under 1920 and the Nvidia for anything over that!

Solitaire

Haven't even read up on the GTX275 yet, but I'll be eyeing up a HD4890XT for my next (summer) build for sure. Better than the HD4870 in every respect :P

Most peeps haven't realised that the HD4890 isn't an overvolted HD4870 but is a completely different card with a new GPU. Said GPU has similar computational characteristics to the old RV770 but the redesign gives a huge increase in stability and speed and a huge decrease in power and heat. Win-win

Seifer

Solitaire wrote: »

Most peeps haven't realised that the HD4890 isn't an overvolted HD4870 but is a completely different card with a new GPU. Said GPU has similar computational characteristics to the old RV770 but the redesign gives a huge increase in stability and speed and a huge decrease in power and heat. Win-win

The article posted above seems to disagree with you:

For the Radeon HD 4890 our hardware specs are pretty simple. Take a 4870 1GB and overclock it. Crank the core up 100 MHz to 850 MHz and the memory clock up 75 MHz to 975 MHz. That's the Radeon HD 4890 in a nutshell. However, to reach these clock levels, AMD revised the core by adding decoupling capacitors, new timing algorithms, and altered the ASIC power distribution for enhanced operation. These slight changes increased the transistor count from 956M to 959M. Otherwise, the core features/specifications (texture units, ROPs, z/stencil) remain the same as the HD4850/HD4870 series.

cherryghost

no.

we have enough cards on the market. another two cards its just pointless.

Inquitus

The GTX 275 looks like a great top end card at a very decent price, I will be picking one shortly. Generally scores slightly better than the HD4890 in most games, plus it can fold, and ATI's cards are ****e at folding.

Inq

Solitaire

New PCB, new RV790 GPU. Sorry Seifer, Anand are talking crap yet again (althought the PhysX mini-rant was pretty funny ) I also notice some results for the HD4890Pro they reviewed are way off, especially the system power usage - it should be a lot lower.



Either they used a bad GPU-driver combo or Asus' HD4890Pro is having issues that the Powercolor HD4890XT doesn't - it used a fraction of the power (lower than HD4870 actually, as the RV790 was designed to do) Also heard that Asus tried to include some kind of integrated voltmod on their card. This may be contributing to the power issues.

Solitaire

Hmm... Wondering if XBit actually managed to get an unusually good RV790 there... everyone else's results are different, though XBit did claim the results were unexpected and repeatable.

In any case the GTX275 is both more powerful and more expensive than expected. The crucial bit is that I've already seen HD4890XTs popping up cheaper than the most basic GTX275, and they whoop a lot more ass than the base HD4890. And I'm amused how far behind Pixmania is this time... GTX275 €40 more than HWVS and only one HD4890 and no XTs at all... :rolleyes:

Nehaxak

I got an ATI 4890 during the week. For me it was a huge jump up as I previously only had an ATI 3850.
Still waiting on decent drivers for it though and ATI only released 9.4 Catalyst the other day, which don't even fully recognise the card yet.
I was about to buy the 4870 on Overclockers when I just noticed they had the 4890's for sale so thought I might as well.
It's the Gigabyte model, nothing special and bog standard reference cooler attached (as all the 4890's so far I've seen seem to have).

As I "kind of" had to upgrade my PSU for the new card, well I thought I'd upgrade the case as well so bought the new CoolerMaster ATCS 840 case https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-159-CM and a lovely Tagan 1100W modular PSU https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-018-TG

Oh and also bought a set of Philips AmBx premium kit speakers https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SP-006-PH - lights, fans, rumble strip After a bit of farting about with drivers for the Ambx speakers and reverting back to XP (I /spit on Vista 64 :mad: ) they look brilliant.

Overclockers are also now doing an Easter deal on the 4890 cards, works out about 14 pounds cheaper for the Gigabyte 4890 card anyway than what I paid for it last week.

TerrorFirmer

Nehaxak wrote: »

As I "kind of" had to upgrade my PSU for the new card, well I thought I'd upgrade the case as well so bought the new CoolerMaster ATCS 840 case https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-159-CM and a lovely Tagan 1100W modular PSU https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-018-TG

Jesus that's ridiculous, a decent 450w/500w psu would power a 4890 no problems.

54kroc

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Jesus that's ridiculous, a decent 450w/500w psu would power a 4890 no problems.

I'm sure just because it is a 1100w psu doesn't mean it uses 1100w of power, If the system is drawing 400w of power and you have a 1100w or 500w psu are they not both usin the same amount of power?

AlmightyCushion

cork45 wrote: »

I'm sure just because it is a 1100w psu doesn't mean it uses 1100w of power, If the system is drawing 400w of power and you have a 1100w or 500w psu are they not both usin the same amount of power?

More or less but a 500w power supply is a damn sight cheaper than an 1100w power supply.

Nehaxak

Well, I only had a 500w PSU (Tagan also) and needed to keep that in the old case for building another PC later when I'm bothered. That plus I was half thinking about buying a 4870x2 at the time or another 4890 at some stage in the future, so at least now I'm not limited at all on the power side of things.

uberpixie

cork45 wrote: »

I'm sure just because it is a 1100w psu doesn't mean it uses 1100w of power, If the system is drawing 400w of power and you have a 1100w or 500w psu are they not both usin the same amount of power?

"For a given power supply, efficiency varies depending on how much power is being delivered. Supplies are typically most efficient at between half and three quarters load, much less efficient at low load, and somewhat less efficient at maximum load. Thus it is still important to select a supply with capacity appropriate to the device being powered."

E.g. if you get a huge 1100w PSU chances are you are using more power to power your PC than a smaller 500W PSU that is @ 75% load.

Your PC gets the same amount of power, but you burn more leccy using the 1100W psu than the 500W one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS

54kroc

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

More or less but a 500w power supply is a damn sight cheaper than an 1100w power supply.

Good point

TerrorFirmer

cork45 wrote: »

I'm sure just because it is a 1100w psu doesn't mean it uses 1100w of power, If the system is drawing 400w of power and you have a 1100w or 500w psu are they not both usin the same amount of power?

That wasn't the point (though efficiency can vary), the point was that he bought a 200 euro PSU when a 100 euro one would have done the job just as well, for his current machine and any near-future upgrades. Dual 4890's or a 4870x2 would work absolutely fine on a good quality Corsair or similar 650w PSU....

The only reason you would need a 1100w PSU would be something like tri GTX295 to be honest, if even.

Not trying to belittle anyone, but I'd hate to see people reading this forum and going 'Hmmm, looks like I need a 1100w psu for my new 4890' when a 450/500w Corsair is absolutely fine for 1 and a 650w adequate for 2 of them..

Nehaxak

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That wasn't the point (though efficiency can vary), the point was that he bought a 200 euro PSU when a 100 euro one would have done the job just as well, for his current machine and any near-future upgrades. Dual 4890's or a 4870x2 would work absolutely fine on a good quality Corsair or similar 650w PSU....

The only reason you would need a 1100w PSU would be something like tri GTX295 to be honest, if even.

Not trying to belittle anyone, but I'd hate to see people reading this forum and going 'Hmmm, looks like I need a 1100w psu for my new 4890' when a 450/500w Corsair is absolutely fine for 1 and a 650w adequate for 2 of them..

Alright, alright, calm down, calm down...I never even hinted at anything like suggesting people should get a **** off PSU just because I did ! wtf :rolleyes:

I use the computer not you and the PSU I bought is not for a couple of weeks/months it's to last me as long as it can do, years if I can help it.
My previous Tagan 500W did me well for over 2 years and it's still in the old case, I might even throw the 4890 in with it and give it to my son to play with now as I wasn't happy at all with the 4890 as it generates way too much heat, the fan creates rediculous noise and the driver support is bloody rubbish from ATI so I've gone and bought a BFG 285 OC2 http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-084-BG&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=1341 today to replace it as FPS in wow (of all games) was dreadful and also experienced tearing and artifacts in Fear 2.
Depending on how well the 285 performs, I'll probably get another one and SLi them up together at some stage. Not interested in the 295 at all.

Nehaxak

For what it's worth, according to http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp my system comes in at requiring a PSU of 744W with a single 285. SLi with 2 x 285's = 900Watts.
Does not include any overclocking on top of that either.

With a single 4870 (they don't have the 4890 available to spec) = 704W and crossfired up it would be 827W - again, no overclocking included.

So...I wasn't that far off now really. Only thing I could do is probably take out 2 x 2GB DDR2 RAM sticks to shave a few watts as I've gone back to XP 32 and dumped Vista, but that's not knocking off much anyway.

cherryghost

that doesnt sound right

uberpixie

Nehaxak wrote: »

Alright, alright, calm down, calm down...I never even hinted at anything like suggesting people should get a **** off PSU just because I did ! wtf :rolleyes:

I use the computer not you and the PSU I bought is not for a couple of weeks/months it's to last me as long as it can do, years if I can help it.

Tis a pet hate of mine also: oversized PSUs for a build :pac:. That and the arguments you have with someone until you can explain why they don't need a 1200W PSU for a bog build.:rolleyes:

1100W should last a few years to say the least! Only real issue I would have personally would be the wastage on leccy usuage Vs getting a smaller PSU which would be more efficent for the load placed on it.

Still each to their own.

Nehaxak wrote: »

with now as I wasn't happy at all with the 4890 as it generates way too much heat, the fan creates rediculous noise and the driver support is bloody rubbish

Well the 4870 I have used to run 60 degress @ idle and 80 @ load. Card ran fine. I assume you had similar temps with your 4890?

I did end up replacing the stock cooler as the fan noise was annoying me. Temps were no problem at all, even over long sessions.

Arctic Cooling Accelero Twin Turbo did the trick:the x2 fans running at 41% constant through Riva Tuner. Highest the card gets is low 60s at most, at idle ranges from 47-50 degress depending on room temp.

Most importantly I can bearly hear the card at idle: and as i have the fans at a constant speed, not at all under load with a game going full tilt.

Might be worth considering for your son if the noise gets to him with the stock cooler.

Annoying thing is the cooler itself is a wee bit fiddly to mount and they don't supply long screws with the cooler either: the default screws with the 4870 are very short, required a lot of brute force to get the screws to hold the heatsink mount in place and even then you have the top of the screw holding the mount in place.

EDIT: I have seen many power benchies that rate a GTX295 rig with an icore 7 overclocked to hell and back using 450-470W in power @ full load.

Ran the calculater myself for a Q6600, raptor 10,000rpm + x2 SATA HDDs + DVDRW + soundcard and a 4870: got 321W

Changed the card to a 295 and it came out @ 402W Which sounds about right...

Nehaxak

Ah it's not a bog build though, this is an on-going project now for the last, oooh, 6+ years anyway.

Only single part that's lasted that long through-out up until last week was the case, an original Coolermaster Stacker (brilliant case btw).

I have currently roughly 8 TB of internal storage, which I'm trying to whittle down to just 2 TB internal and 1 TB external eSata for backups.

XiFi Fatality with IO Front.
1 x Sata DVDRW
1 x BluRay drive
1 x TV Tuner/capture card
1 x Satellite PCI card (which I could probably remove as it's unused since I moved house)
AmBx speaker set (bit of a power draw on them it seems)
4 x 140MM case fans
1 x 120MM case fan
4 x 2Gb RAM sticks (forget the make/model offhand) I had Vista 64 installed.
CoolerMaster V8 CPU cooler to be added this week.
G15 KB.

All adds up with the other USB bits I have on externally to come to the figure that site gave.
I would've bought the 900W Tagan (I had intended too) but it wasn't available in stock, so just got the step up from it as that was available as I didn't want to underspec it either as I have/had plans to xfire or Sli the graphics cards up, whichever ones I went for in the end.

I'm also trying to get it as quiet as it possibly can be via air cooling (I'm not sold on the water cooling stuff) and the 4890 threw that right off. At 20% fan speed it was hitting 100C in World of Warcraft which is rediculous. Anything above 25% fan speed was annoying and if I left it on auto it would fly up to 40+% in no time at all, just playing Wow :mad: stupid amount of noise.
On Idle the PC is quiet, only fan I can hear really is the stock cpu fan (which I'm changing). Case fans are grand and quiet. Anything under load though and the 4890 fan kicks off if it's on auto and it's really annoying.

I was looking around for another third party fan for the 4890 but I'm not sure if the ones for the 4870's will work with it.

Nehaxak

EDIT: I have seen many power benchies that rate a GTX295 rig with an icore 7 overclocked to hell and back using 450-470W in power @ full load.

Ran the calculater myself for a Q6600, raptor 10,000rpm + x2 SATA HDDs + DVDRW + soundcard and a 4870: got 321W

Changed the card to a 295 and it came out @ 402W Which sounds about right...

I've an E6850 (not OC'd at the moment).

You're also forgetting to add in capacitor ageing, which I did at 25% (should probably be set at 30%) - as I said, I plan on having this PSU for a few years and the PC undergoes heavy usage.