Iarnrod Eireann plans DART extension to Inchicore

extragon

So nobody can explain why a massively expensive tunnel should be built to service the sparse commuter traffic into Heuston - except to suggest that the traffic will pick up later? Enough said.

The TALK about an Interconnector is damaging in two ways
1. It lets the govt. off the hook for not seriously upgrading the Kildare line. Even the few kms of quad track omits the all important inner suburban section. (And it's taking longer to build than the whole TGV Est line, recently opened in France. )

2. It may result in a poorly connected metro north, ending in St Stephen's Green ( "Grand Central Terminus" according to Minister Cullen! )

Of course you could save money by combining the two projects. A metro looping through Connolly, St Stephens Green, Heuston, and ending in Hazelhatch is one idea. It may be a bad idea, but I doubt if anything like this was considered. Our unique Irish way of doing things is to have two rival publicly funded bodies - each, obviously, planning its own tunnel - in one small city.

Nostradamus

ihatewallies wrote: »

Another cousin fondler lost in Dublin.

Why when reading your posts, do I keep getting this image of you in my mind of an angry chain smoking midget?

Nostradamus

extragon wrote: »

The TALK about an Interconnector is damaging in two ways

Tell ya what. Why don't you put a proposal of your masterplan together. Send it to Kildare Street and see what happens. I am sure you are in with more than a shout of having all your ideas implemented at this late stage, and Transport21 Dublin plan being scrapped and replaced with your ideas.

and one more thing:

it is not "Hello Joe"

you have to say it like this: "JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEE, ah JOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE the country is dommeeed. What about the childers, the poor little wans!!! They'll be drownded in the metro tunnelmafications. JOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE JOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

KC61

extragon wrote: »

So nobody can explain why a massively expensive tunnel should be built to service the sparse commuter traffic into Heuston - except to suggest that the traffic will pick up later? Enough said.

The TALK about an Interconnector is damaging in two ways
1. It lets the govt. off the hook for not seriously upgrading the Kildare line. Even the few kms of quad track omits the all important inner suburban section. (And it's taking longer to build than the whole TGV Est line, recently opened in France. )

2. It may result in a poorly connected metro north, ending in St Stephen's Green ( "Grand Central Terminus" according to Minister Cullen! )

Of course you could save money by combining the two projects. A metro looping through Connolly, St Stephens Green, Heuston, and ending in Hazelhatch is one idea. It may be a bad idea, but I doubt if anything like this was considered. Our unique Irish way of doing things is to have two rival publicly funded bodies - each, obviously, planning its own tunnel - in one small city.

The primary function of the Interconnector is to finally segregate trains running to/from Maynooth with those running to/from the Northern Line. It will allow both lines to operate "conflict-free" thus increasing the scope for operating additional services on both routes. At present there is zero scope for adding services through the city centre.

At present for every train running to Maynooth from Pearse, a "path" is used up that could conceivably also service the Northern Line. For every train from Maynooth, a path in both directions is used as it must cross both the northbound and southbound lines at Connolly.

There is no scope for eliminating these conflicts at Connolly due to the confined nature of the locations. The Interconnector provides that ability by re-routing northern line DART services away from the existing lines north of Connolly, thus eliminating any conflicts. That is the primary reason for the tunnel, as it delivers the ability to in the long run have far greater capacity on the Maynooth, Northern and Hazelhatch routes.

murphaph

extragon wrote: »

So nobody can explain why a massively expensive tunnel should be built to service the sparse commuter traffic into Heuston - except to suggest that the traffic will pick up later? Enough said.

Firstly, the Interconnector's purpose is not solely to service West Dublin. It also relieves the congested Loop Line (that's the bit between Connolly and Pearse) which is just 2 tracks wide and for obvious reasons can't be widened. In addition, it serves the south inner city Central Business District which is the number one peak hour destination in the city. Also, it eliminates the termination of commuter services in terminal stations in the city itself by 'through-running' all of them from outer suburb to outer suburb to terminate them 'in the sticks' as it were. It simply ties the dirsjointed network together into a cohesive system which will be more robust against failures.

Secondly, West Dublin does have poor commuter traffic into Heuston.....BECAUSE Heuston is poorly located at the western periphery of the city and because Heuston is congested with other traffic, few commuter services actually run into it. Also to be factored in is the fact that until recently there were only 3 stations in the whole of County Dublin on that route! If you believe west dubliners won't use the Interconnector in large numbers to get into Stephen's Green in 20 mins you are sorely mistaken.

bg07

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it true that loop line bridge is not capable of carrying 2 trains at the same time? (i.e. it is impossible for a train to be travelling south from connolly to tara street at the same time as a train is travelling north from tara st to connolly.). I believe this also has a huge impact on the expansion of existing dart/commuter services with the interconnecter

paulm17781

bg07 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it true that loop line bridge is not capable of carrying 2 trains at the same time? (i.e. it is impossible for a train to be travelling south from connolly to tara street at the same time as a train is travelling north from tara st to connolly.). I believe this also has a huge impact on the expansion of existing dart/commuter services with the interconnecter

I'm fairly certain it can take two trains at the same time. It's just limited by the amount of services that wish to use it.

murphaph

that's not true.

KC61

bg07 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it true that loop line bridge is not capable of carrying 2 trains at the same time? (i.e. it is impossible for a train to be travelling south from connolly to tara street at the same time as a train is travelling north from tara st to connolly.). I believe this also has a huge impact on the expansion of existing dart/commuter services with the interconnecter

The loop line bridge can take 12 trains per hour in either direction. Trains can operate simultaneously on each line in opposite directions, and there is no issue with that.

The resignalling project will increase the number of possible trains over the bridge in either direction to a minimum of 17 and a maximum of 24 per hour.

The issue really is that any train coming from Maynooth has to cross over the northbound line to reach the southbound line. Therefore a "slot" on both lines is used up by one train. Similarly, every northbound train to Maynooth means one less train that could go out on the Northern Line from stations south of Connolly.

That is what the Interconnector solves by avoiding any crossings of lines at grade.

spacetweek

While I think ihatewallies was out of line, I agree than extragon and DWCommuter are talking crap.

DW, your post was unfocussed and didn't make much sense to me. You seem to be saying that instead of building IC, we should be breaking it into smaller projects that have greater economic benefit. As smaller projects, wouldn't there be a risk than many of them would have less economic benefit? In any case, the whole IC project was always a "phased series of projects" -

- 2007 Docklands o/g: sets up temporary terminus for Navan
- 2010 Kildare Route: upgrade capacity for West Dublin and prepare for connection to tunnel
- 2010 Navan Phase 1: Major part of the expanded network of lines
- 2011 City Centre Resignal: Sort out problems on city centre DART sections and prepare Maynooth line for DART
- 2012-2013? Electrify
- 2015 IC

Each of these can be shown to have a particular benefit for its area and certain commuters.

Next you go on about commuter figures along Kildare line. The figures here are depressed for two reasons; first, the service frequency is crap, putting many people off, and second, many of the communities along the line are yet to build out, particularly Adamstown and Kishogue.

How exactly does not going ahead now with IC solve either of the above problems? How is latent demand to be catered for? How is future population growth to be catered for? Where is the forward planning here?

Some of the sources for commuters along Kildare Line:
Celbridge (pop 17000)
Adamstown (target pop 25000 based on 10,000 units)
Kishogue (target pop 15000 based on 6,000 units)
Fonthill Rd (Clondalkin pop 43000, bus drop-off point, large P&R)
Parkwest - major office area, getting more residential, still growing
Inchicore - future station here (pop ?)
Heuston - passengers arriving from regional Arrow trains (Portlaoise, Kildare etc.)
Heuston - passengers arriving on intercity trains (Cork, Limerick etc)
Heuston - Luas Red Line passengers arriving from Tallaght wishing to access south inner city instead of north

DWCommuter wrote: »

Maybe the Dublin rail plan sold in one package was a godsend to a Fianna Fail Government because it required a long drawn out design and planning process that enabled them to long finger it all. A phased staging of projects would certainly have put the gun to their heads and maybe then we'd have seen how committed they were. It isn't too late and the immediate action now required is to ask Government to sanction the funds to put in place a foundation thats prepares the system for an interconnector, because this tunnell will not be built by 2015 or anything close to it. I'd take the electrification of both the Kildare and Maynooth and northern lines before Metro North as I believe it represents better value in terms of an existing and proven public transport system being upgraded in readiness of even bigger improvements.

You're way off here. It's not one package and in fact this will mean that the IC must now be completed. The Docklands station, the soon-completed Kildare Route Project, and Navan Phase 1 which drops people off in the middle of nowhere will indeed become white elephants unless IC goes ahead. Therefore, the gov are now cornered and can't back out.

Nostradamus

spacetweek wrote: »

Inchicore - future station here (pop ?)

Gotta be at least 10K. Not to mention there are a few attractions nearby which bring in outside visitors such as Kimagham Goal, the Museum of Modern Art and Saint Patrick's Athletic FC around the corner at Richmond Park. And looking ahead, if there is one location for a national transport museum it is the rail works at Inchicore.

Personally I was delighted to see Irish Rail show a lot of foresight by moving the tunnel entrance to here and they should be commended along with the government for agreeing with it. This is kind of forward planning we have long complained out and should be very welcomed at a time like this by all of us who want a quality rail system. It should also speed up the construction timeframe as Saint James's Gate always seemed very tricky to me and dependent on too many external factors outside IE's control.

BluntGuy

Well, IE should really be pushing for this, because it looks like Metro North is set to take precedence over it.

Obviously there isn't a problem if both go ahead at the same time, but when it's looking doubtful that either of them will go ahead, if we have to make the choice, it MUST be IC.

Sponge Bob

Interconnector is also defensive. In a years time it will be possible for an express bus to go from central Galway to Heuston in around 2 hours , faster than a train . Gobus are already establishing themselves in that niche. I dont mind being 'stuck' on a bus for two hours whereas BE were taking over 4 hours only 2 years back on the same route.

Once bus journeys are reliably c. 2 hours ( with free wifi ) and with services every hour it really affects the viability of train services.

Shannon-Limerick express bus to Dublin Heuston would be around 2 hours 10 mins .

The completion of interconnector/quad track to the west allows trains to roughly compete with express buses on time and with a rapid platform change anywhere between Hazelhatch and Heuston you get to the city centre where buses cannot go ....or even wheel north towards Balbriggan if you wish :cool:

Sadly I do not see how a fractional interconnector is much good, it is an all or nothing sort of project that requires the guts of €4bn cash to finish .

Maybe there will be an appetite for infrastructure bonds ringfenced for projects like these but with a ( minimum) €90bn bad bank to finance I somehow suspect not .

There is a lot more than €90bn in property related lending on our banks books, anglo alone has a €70bn book that is nearly all property related .

I make the entire property mess out at nearer €200bn and that the government buys that at 50% discount and trebles the national debt by year end to around 120% of GDP

That is back where we were in 1987 by the way , we built a lot of infrastructure in the late 1980s so we did

Nostradamus

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Interconnector is also defensive. In a years time it will be possible for an express bus to go from central Galway to Heuston in around 2 hours , faster than a train . Gobus are already establishing themselves in that niche.

True, but the Dart Underground/KRP should increase Galway and all other IC route timings into Hueston, coupled with easy access to Luas and DART from the station can only be good for all rail travel. This can only enhance the train regardless of bus competition.

The Dart Undergound is THE national rail project, and not just superficially and should be embraced by all Irish people regardless of geography. The way I see it, rail travel in Ireland has an extremely limited future without the Interconnector, and a fantastic future if it gets built. For a country of our size we will achieve one the largest per-populaiton rail ridership in the entire world. What a difference from even the early 1990's passenger levels when Mayonooth was nothing but a pile of overgrown brambles and bracken on the Sligo line.

The sheer numbers of people using the DART network after the IC is built will have massive knock-on benefits for rail travel in every part of the country. Unlike the stupidifying rationale behind the Western Rail Corridor, no one post-Interconnector will ever again question the viability of rail transport in Ireland due to the massive segment of the population using train travel, and between the DART, Metro and Luas, Cork Suburban/IC rail users in Ireland will finally be a major poltical force. We may eventually see the Athlone-Mullingar and Navan lines come back on the network as demand grows.

Let's roll. (Barry Kenny; if you are reading this mate, feel free to use my literary talents to do what ever it takes to push the DART Underground - the Maynooth "brambles" line is a classic you have to admit :cool:).

L1011

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is back where we were in 1987 by the way , we built a lot of infrastructure in the late 1980s so we did

There was quite a bit:
DART
Naas Bypass
M1 Santry bypass
N4 out to Lucan bypass
erm
um


I take your point....

ihatewallies

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Interconnector is also defensive. In a years time it will be possible for an express bus to go from central Galway to Heuston in around 2 hours , faster than a train . Gobus are already establishing themselves in that niche. I dont mind being 'stuck' on a bus for two hours whereas BE were taking over 4 hours only 2 years back on the same route.

Once bus journeys are reliably c. 2 hours ( with free wifi ) and with services every hour it really affects the viability of train services.

Shannon-Limerick express bus to Dublin Heuston would be around 2 hours 10 mins .

The completion of interconnector/quad track to the west allows trains to roughly compete with express buses on time and with a rapid platform change anywhere between Hazelhatch and Heuston you get to the city centre where buses cannot go ....or even wheel north towards Balbriggan if you wish :cool:

Sadly I do not see how a fractional interconnector is much good, it is an all or nothing sort of project that requires the guts of €4bn cash to finish .

Maybe there will be an appetite for infrastructure bonds ringfenced for projects like these but with a ( minimum) €90bn bad bank to finance I somehow suspect not .

There is a lot more than €90bn in property related lending on our banks books, anglo alone has a €70bn book that is nearly all property related .

I make the entire property mess out at nearer €200bn and that the government buys that at 50% discount and trebles the national debt by year end to around 120% of GDP

That is back where we were in 1987 by the way , we built a lot of infrastructure in the late 1980s so we did

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

a little tip. stay away from economics. it's not your forte.

Sponge Bob

I regret to say that is arithmetic not even economics IHW , please differentiate next time .

The overall Interconnector project is being cut back this year. As KC mentioned the 'conflict free' essence of the plan I will expand a tad.

The really big Dublin bottleneck now is Tara ST , the interconnector makes northern darts run through a tunnnel to Kildare not over that bridge

The southern darts get the bridge to themselves and on to Maynooth . resignalling ups the number of trains that can run too.

The interconnector is not so much about the tunnel as about splitting the dart in half . electrification is vital all the way through because the dart is all electric

Sadly Dempsey chopped some projects already this week .

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/ididqlsncw/

Among the public transport projects being postponed this year are:

* Upgrade and resignalling of the Dublin-Maynooth railway line.

* Preparatory work for electrification of the Maynooth line.

* Preparatory work on an upgrade of Cherry Orchard-Inchicore line.

Like I said before , Interconnector is an all or nothing project if it is to deliver.

You could not 'finish' the 'Dart South' Maynooth - Greystones line without the tunnel in place either .

Calina

ihatewallies wrote: »

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

a little tip. stay away from economics. it's not your forte.

a little tip: stay away from posting like this. It may get you into trouble.

DWCommuter

spacetweek wrote: »

While I think ihatewallies was out of line, I agree than extragon and DWCommuter are talking crap.

DW, your post was unfocussed and didn't make much sense to me. You seem to be saying that instead of building IC, we should be breaking it into smaller projects that have greater economic benefit. As smaller projects, wouldn't there be a risk than many of them would have less economic benefit? In any case, the whole IC project was always a "phased series of projects" -

- 2007 Docklands o/g: sets up temporary terminus for Navan
- 2010 Kildare Route: upgrade capacity for West Dublin and prepare for connection to tunnel
- 2010 Navan Phase 1: Major part of the expanded network of lines
- 2011 City Centre Resignal: Sort out problems on city centre DART sections and prepare Maynooth line for DART
- 2012-2013? Electrify
- 2015 IC

Each of these can be shown to have a particular benefit for its area and certain commuters.

Next you go on about commuter figures along Kildare line. The figures here are depressed for two reasons; first, the service frequency is crap, putting many people off, and second, many of the communities along the line are yet to build out, particularly Adamstown and Kishogue.

How exactly does not going ahead now with IC solve either of the above problems? How is latent demand to be catered for? How is future population growth to be catered for? Where is the forward planning here?

Some of the sources for commuters along Kildare Line:
Celbridge (pop 17000)
Adamstown (target pop 25000 based on 10,000 units)
Kishogue (target pop 15000 based on 6,000 units)
Fonthill Rd (Clondalkin pop 43000, bus drop-off point, large P&R)
Parkwest - major office area, getting more residential, still growing
Inchicore - future station here (pop ?)
Heuston - passengers arriving from regional Arrow trains (Portlaoise, Kildare etc.)
Heuston - passengers arriving on intercity trains (Cork, Limerick etc)
Heuston - Luas Red Line passengers arriving from Tallaght wishing to access south inner city instead of north


You're way off here. It's not one package and in fact this will mean that the IC must now be completed. The Docklands station, the soon-completed Kildare Route Project, and Navan Phase 1 which drops people off in the middle of nowhere will indeed become white elephants unless IC goes ahead. Therefore, the gov are now cornered and can't back out.

So I'm talking crap and my point is unfoccused?

First and foremost, if it wasn't for the likes of me, you may never have heard of the interconnector in the first place. If you think Im unfoccused then you only have a basic knowledge of the entire project.

Secondly, I never said we should do anything INSTEAD of building the IC. I said that the electrification aspects should have been offered up as a stage one of the overall project. This delivers immediate benefits and copperfastens the urgent need for the IC. I have never said that the IC SHOULDN'T go ahead now. But I do live in a real world where its chances of being built are deterioating day by day.

Your reason for poor figures on the Kildare line are suspect and demonstrative of either ignorance or blind hope. Yes the current service frequency is poor. But figures on those trains are already dropping. (source: Irish Rail) You can actually get a seat these days. The new developments are now years away due to recession making them irrelevent in the short term. But most importantly, I clearly stated that I wasn't using these low usage figures as a reason NOT to build the IC. So your outburst re figures was a waste of time and Googling.

As for your outlining of the various stages and accusation that I'm "way off", well let me explain a few things to you. Your list is by no means a method to make the IC a must do project. If the IC is not built, the system will carry on its merry way regardless. In the early 1970s CIE devised a similar grand plan. They sought funding for phase one (DART from Howth to Bray) because the existing service was about to implode. It was eventually built with borrowed money as the EU funding was diverted elsewhere. This project didn't corner the Government back then and they did back out of funding the rest of it due to the dire economic circumstances. Since then we have had politically driven, badly thought out incremental add on's that actually caused many of our problems. Today we are in even more dire economic circumstances for different reasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking that the Government are sitting up in Leinster house ****ting themselves because we have a potential white elephant Docklands station and a quad track system into Heuston. They don't care. Study your history, because its about to repeat itself.

And once again questioning the staging of phases for the IC does not deserve a Liveline parody or copious amounts of "thanks" under posts. Bravo to all of you that know how the IC will work, but it is certainly not a solution to West Dublin's public transport problems. The chronic problem in that area is the cross radial congestion. Metro west was proposed as the solution, but its too far west and too light a project to have any real impact. Thankfully it has been shelved for now.

The IC is needed, but now that we are facing severe financial hardship, the focus should be on redevising the stages to deliver benefits, revisualising how the system can work in the short term and not forgetting that a Fianna Fail lead Government blew billions and didn't deliver. If we slag off everyone that attempts to deviate from the unaffordable grand plan, then we will end up with nothing at all. We need to get something out of this and our politicians need to be brought to book for delays in delivering. We got ****ed over decades ago and people forgot. Thats why these cowboys think they can get away with it again. If people want to see the IC delivered then stop procrastinating about its specifics and start breaking it down into simple units that can possibly deliver a stepping stone to its completion and actually put pressure on the Government to deliver any way possible or else this internet generation will be the most connected and informed generation, yet the biggest failure of all generations.

IIMII

DWCommuter wrote: »

The chronic problem in that area is the cross radial congestion.

Yup. Loads of isolated areas, virtually impossible to get to by public transport. You can't get to many places that are only a few miles from each other without a 20 mile round trip into An Lár. They should take those buses they want to scrap (metaphorically) and get people from population centres to where the jobs are

extragon

Thank you KC61 and Murphaph for the non hysterical responses.

So there is a junction north of Connolly, similar to many on the London Underground, the RER in Paris, and in many other systems. And there are capacity issues on the Loop Line, because of inadequate signalling. And the only way to solve this is to spend over four billion on the Interconnector.

It's been quite an education coming here.

paulm17781

extragon wrote: »

And the only way to solve this is to spend over four billion on the Interconnector.

Probably not the only but an absolutely excellent solution. The interconnector will open up new parts of the city and make the whole network a lot more accessible to a lot more people. It is an absolutely fantastic project and one that would have great benefits for Dublin.

BluntGuy

paulm17781 wrote: »

Probably not the only but an absolutely excellent solution. The interconnector will open up new parts of the city and make the whole network a lot more accessible to a lot more people. It is an absolutely fantastic project and one that would have great benefits for Dublin.

The interconnector will finally allow Dublin to have a rail network, rather than just a bunch of lines with seemingly no connections to each other.

The DART will become a proper railway system, rather than just an electrified commuter line, and will complement (and integrate with) the proposed Metro North and Luas lines.

We cannot overestimate the importance of this project.

ihatewallies

DWCommuter wrote: »

So I'm talking crap and my point is unfoccused?

First and foremost, if it wasn't for the likes of me, you may never have heard of the interconnector in the first place. If you think Im unfoccused then you only have a basic knowledge of the entire project.

Secondly, I never said we should do anything INSTEAD of building the IC. I said that the electrification aspects should have been offered up as a stage one of the overall project. This delivers immediate benefits and copperfastens the urgent need for the IC. I have never said that the IC SHOULDN'T go ahead now. But I do live in a real world where its chances of being built are deterioating day by day.

Your reason for poor figures on the Kildare line are suspect and demonstrative of either ignorance or blind hope. Yes the current service frequency is poor. But figures on those trains are already dropping. (source: Irish Rail) You can actually get a seat these days. The new developments are now years away due to recession making them irrelevent in the short term. But most importantly, I clearly stated that I wasn't using these low usage figures as a reason NOT to build the IC. So your outburst re figures was a waste of time and Googling.

As for your outlining of the various stages and accusation that I'm "way off", well let me explain a few things to you. Your list is by no means a method to make the IC a must do project. If the IC is not built, the system will carry on its merry way regardless. In the early 1970s CIE devised a similar grand plan. They sought funding for phase one (DART from Howth to Bray) because the existing service was about to implode. It was eventually built with borrowed money as the EU funding was diverted elsewhere. This project didn't corner the Government back then and they did back out of funding the rest of it due to the dire economic circumstances. Since then we have had politically driven, badly thought out incremental add on's that actually caused many of our problems. Today we are in even more dire economic circumstances for different reasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking that the Government are sitting up in Leinster house ****ting themselves because we have a potential white elephant Docklands station and a quad track system into Heuston. They don't care. Study your history, because its about to repeat itself.

And once again questioning the staging of phases for the IC does not deserve a Liveline parody or copious amounts of "thanks" under posts. Bravo to all of you that know how the IC will work, but it is certainly not a solution to West Dublin's public transport problems. The chronic problem in that area is the cross radial congestion. Metro west was proposed as the solution, but its too far west and too light a project to have any real impact. Thankfully it has been shelved for now.

The IC is needed, but now that we are facing severe financial hardship, the focus should be on redevising the stages to deliver benefits, revisualising how the system can work in the short term and not forgetting that a Fianna Fail lead Government blew billions and didn't deliver. If we slag off everyone that attempts to deviate from the unaffordable grand plan, then we will end up with nothing at all. We need to get something out of this and our politicians need to be brought to book for delays in delivering. We got ****ed over decades ago and people forgot. Thats why these cowboys think they can get away with it again. If people want to see the IC delivered then stop procrastinating about its specifics and start breaking it down into simple units that can possibly deliver a stepping stone to its completion and actually put pressure on the Government to deliver any way possible or else this internet generation will be the most connected and informed generation, yet the biggest failure of all generations.

outside the scope of the forum to explain how wrong this is.
you're living in the past. this is not the 1980s.
for all your interest in the IC you seem to have missed that the IC is planned to be a PPP. there are various ways the money can be raised at affordable interest rates. the political mindset is different also and both the IC and MN will go ahead.

Sponge Bob

ihatewallies wrote: »

there are various ways the money can be raised at affordable interest rates.

Detail all of these !

ofjames

I'm open to being corrected but i was always under the impression that the interconnector would cost around 2billion, not the 4billion referred to several times in this thread. And clearly in a deflationary environment it is very likely that it can be delivered for even less than originally planned

also, the 5 years of construction would clearly have a positive economic effect from the employment generated etc..., although i would be lying if i claimed to know the extent of this benefit (or how it compares to its economic cost)

I live along the maynooth line, and accordingly I am a huge supporter of this project due to for the transforming effect it should have in terms of the quality of the maynooth services. i really hope it is constructed on time

paulm17781

ofjames wrote: »

I'm open to being corrected but i was always under the impression that the interconnector would cost around 2billion, not the 4billion referred to several times in this thread. And clearly in a deflationary environment it is very likely that it can be delivered for even less than originally planned

4Bn is an estimate (I think) including electrifying both lines, possibly signalling upgrade.

ofjames wrote: »

I live along the maynooth line, and accordingly I am a huge supporter of this project due to for the transforming effect it should have in terms of the quality of the maynooth services. i really hope it is constructed on time

I used it all through university and am shocked at how much development there is on that line now. I remember when Ashtown was fields and that big old house... Write to your local TD and try to get him to push for it not to be cut.

Gruffalo

paulm17781 wrote: »

4Bn is an estimate (I think) including electrifying both lines, possibly signalling upgrade.



I used it all through university and am shocked at how much development there is on that line now. I remember when Ashtown was fields and that big old house... Write to your local TD and try to get him to push for it not to be cut.

On the note of contacting TD's, the following site might be useful

http://www.contact.ie/

Carawaystick

ihatewallies wrote: »

IC is planned to be a PPP. there are various ways the money can be raised at affordable interest rates. the political mindset is different also and both the IC and MN will go ahead.

Explain for the slow learners here how a private company can raise finance cheaper than the Govt (3.9% last time out)? The only 6 AAA companies are Pfeizer,Johnson&Johnson, Microsoft,Berkshire Hathaway, Exxon Mobile and Automatic Data Processing. none of them in the heavy construction industry.

The political mindset is pretty much the same as n the early eighties. raise taxes and don't cut any govt spending.

strassenwolf

ihatewallies wrote: »

for all your interest in the IC you seem to have missed that the IC is planned to be a PPP.

I've been posting on this board for some time, and - now, I may have to go back over some things - but I'm fairly sure that the idea the interconnector would be built under a PPP scheme is a reasonably new one.

I certainly don't ever recall reading that this was the desired funding option, prior to reading this thread.

I was always under the impression that government funding was earmarked for this project.