Man Utd vs FC Porto

Dave!

This thread is going quite well

m@cc@

Iang87 wrote: »

no no i was saying it to bring some joy to you cos you seem really annoyed for some reason cant put my finger on it. seriously though good luck

Amateur trolling. Seriously.

Chardee MacDennis

jaysus this thread has fallen apart!!

deisedevil

m@cc@ wrote: »

I disagree, we've coped without him before. The confidence of the whole team is shot.

I disagree aswell. We were missing him for a lot of those clean sheet games aswell and we managed, Evans played a blinder but tonight he looked like he was caught in headlights at times, the look on his face showed how worried he was.

Getting Rio back could be a boost though, he does a fair bit of bossing about onthe pitch andI think we could badly do with that at the moment.

Dub13

I am locking this ontill we go through the thread,we have got loads of reported posts.

Dub13

Right I am opening this again,I went through the thread and I think I got everything but will give it a once over again when I get time.

From here on in anybody who Threadspoils,Debating moderation,flaming or trolling etc etc on this thread will be meet with a instant 2 week ban.Man Utd fans should have the right to discuss this game in peace without provocation.

Dub13

eagle eye

Wayne Rooney played very well tonight.

Porto were still unfortunate to only come away with a draw.

Yet another team don't get a penalty at Old Trafford.

Hulk is some player, I don't think he will be with Porto next season.

United were brutal tonight. Porto deserved a win imo. I suppose two away goals is a win.

Podge2k7

I thought Utd were really poor in the first half and were very lucky to get an undeserved goal but they really picked it up in the second half.Now that Porto have two away goals lets just hope that they can hold on next week.!

copacetic

Seemed to me like a great result for Utd having played pretty poorly. Two ways of looking at it, either they have 'lost it' and are done for. Or are going through a pretty shocking spell but haven't come out of it too badly. Poor displays against Villa and Porto and they come out of it with a win and a draw still in the driving seat in the league and not of of the CL at all.

Truth is probably in between and a stroke of luck either way in next couple of games will shape their season. I thought that the last minute winner on Sunday would be the turning point but they need another couple of similar inputs by their senior players by the looks of it.

deisedevil

eagle eye wrote: »

Wayne Rooney played very well tonight.

Porto were still unfortunate to only come away with a draw.

Yet another team don't get a penalty at Old Trafford.

Hulk is some player, I don't think he will be with Porto next season.

United were brutal tonight. Porto deserved a win imo. I suppose two away goals is a win.

I can't argue with any of that.

Anyone know of any highlights with the peno shout?

I thought Fletch could have had one too,two hands pushing him down. Tevez one looked a lot more straight forward though.

keane2097

copacetic wrote: »

Seemed to me like a great result for Utd having played pretty poorly. Two ways of looking at it, either they have 'lost it' and are done for. Or are going through a pretty shocking spell but haven't come out of it too badly. Poor displays against Villa and Porto and they come out of it with a win and a draw still in the driving seat in the league and not of of the CL at all.

This is a very valid point - for all that they've been an absolute shambles recently they're still in a reasonably tenable position in all the competitions.

While their form makes things look a bit more bleak, hopefully with players coming back in they can lift it to some extent...

opr

Whats with all the Liverpool fans cheering for Porto ?

UTD look the much easier draw if we manage to get into the Final :pac:

Opr

Dub13

opr wrote: »

Whats with all the Liverpool fans cheering for Porto ?

UTD look the much easier draw if we manage to get into the Final :pac:

Opr

2 week ban,I did warn you.

Dave!

copacetic wrote: »

Seemed to me like a great result for Utd having played pretty poorly. Two ways of looking at it, either they have 'lost it' and are done for. Or are going through a pretty shocking spell but haven't come out of it too badly. Poor displays against Villa and Porto and they come out of it with a win and a draw still in the driving seat in the league and not of of the CL at all.

Truth is probably in between and a stroke of luck either way in next couple of games will shape their season. I thought that the last minute winner on Sunday would be the turning point but they need another couple of similar inputs by their senior players by the looks of it.

Who are you and why are you making reasonable posts in here???!?!?! :eek:

PHB

Considering how we played, I'll take a score draw. Woulda preferred 1-1, but i'll take it.

It was the team I expected, and it performed worse than I expected. O
Only Fletcher and Rooney played well.
Scholes and Carrick were especially shocking.


I think if theres one person in the world who doesnt think Ferdinand is the stalwart of United's defence they should really look at the last few games. He is at the core of how we perform, and I'm absolutely desperate to get him back.

All in all, similar disappointing United. Defence has crumbled in the last while, while the attack has stayed at a similar level. One of them needs to step up if we've any hope of winning the CL. The PL, I still think we'll win either way.

Advantage Porto obviously, but I think a full strength United team that we'll have next week will do enough to just get through. They should be 3-2, that was a defo penalty, but if we go through, I'll take it as Karma for 4 years ago.

LOL's at the arrogant United fans earlier in the thread, especially after Fergie's warning. Have the greeks thought us nothing?

eagle eye

Dub13 wrote: »

2 week ban,I did warn you.

Whats wrong with that post? Its both funny and true in fairness. Liverpool have two wins in the PL over United this season. So while they are current title holders they would seem to suit Liverpool better than maybe Porto would.

MisterAnarchy

PHB wrote: »

Scholes and Carrick were especially shocking.

Carrick seems to have gone to the dogs over the last 6 weeks.
He looks like a shadow of the player he used to be.
Cant pass the ball 5 yards.
Gone very deep and negative in his general play too.
Scholes I'm afraid is past it at this level,his legs are gone.
He barely gets past jogging speed and his passing has become erratic and overcautious.

Porto looked very impressive,especially on the counter attack,Lisandro and Hulk were very impressive.
They have good control,pace,and good shots.
United are going to have to score at least twice in Porto as those boys will be hard to shutout.

dfx-

I did say during the CL draw that Villareal and Porto are teams I'd want to avoid similar to PSV in 2005. But they were hammered by Liverpool last season, Arsenal this season and looked to be about their level against Atletico Madrid despite Helton throwing the ball in the net..

daithijjj

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats wrong with that post? Its both funny and true in fairness. Liverpool have two wins in the PL over United this season. So while they are current title holders they would seem to suit Liverpool better than maybe Porto would.

Agree with the above, porto gave us (liverpool) a very tough test last season in the competition, we nearly didnt get out of the group.

murpho999

I am a Liverpool supporter but I am not commenting here to slag Utd Supporters.

I really am amazed at how Utd have been playing the last few games.

Having had that great run with 13 or 14 clean sheets they looked to have the season wrapped up, but since the Milan CL game something has changed.

Big players not performing, sloppy in defence and leaking goals. However the biggest change for me is the decline in standard of passing resulting in ball being given away and then lack of urgency in players to track back and win ball back. If your opponent has more of the ball then you're always going to be under pressure and eventually will crack.

I really think that they are giving the initiative to Liverpool/Chelsea and I would say that AF is a very worried man at the moment despite being positive in interviews.

Whilst still in the driving seat, they seem to have lost the momentum and if they don't perform in their next 4 games ( 2 Premier , 1 CL & 1 Fa Cup) then their season could turn into an absolute disaster.

Of course I'd love to see Liverpool win the league but either way its all making great entertainment, has the potential to be the most intriguing season in decades!

carlop

We miss Owen Hargreaves so much at times like this. I actually think I would sacrifice Ronaldo for the next 8 games if it meant having a fully fit Hargreaves.

Evra and Carrick have suffered a massive drop in form, though I guess in Evra's situation his season has been disrupted by injury. More worryingly, Vidic looked far from assured tonight. I'd hoped he'd come back fresh after his ban and with the Liverpool match behind him. We really need a clean sheet this weekend against Sunderland, just to restore some confidence in the defence.

No one should take away from Porto though, they played very well tonight and are a better team than they have been given credit for.

When is Anderson expected back?

ghouldaddy07

I really miss our back four of Brown,Rio,Vidic,Evra with Hargreaves as backup.

internelligent

Another pool fan here not here to cause trouble.

Was seriously shocked at how good Porto were. I know that you don't get to the 1/4 finals of the CL and meet an easy team but still. I thought their ball control was brilliant especially when I saw some players being given wayward passes and yet holding onto it comfortably.
First goal was well taken. Terrible error by Evans but WHY doesn't Ronaldo feel any urgency to retrieve the ball when he has given it away in his own half? Rooney showed today that he truly wears his heart on his sleeve when playing for United. He showed so much desire and determination to win back a ball and I'd imagine it kills him a little when his display doesn't inspire the likes of Ronaldo who consistantly throws his arms in the air or whatever whilst play is continuing. Fletcher played well and I feel he deserves a mention.

So what do Utd do to stop the rot. I know PHB has mentioned that Rio would settle things right down but I honestly don't believe this is the case. I'd agree that with his experience and talent he'd better Evans but he's looked as lost as the rest of the defence since things have started going wrong. Rio and Vidic depend on one another. I believe if confidence has been lost in one, i imagine it would automatically pull the other out of position to cover, (if only slightly), and these movements leave holes which is what we are seeing being exposed. Porto's second goal showed the team in 6's and 7's.

I still expect Man U to win the league but not the CL. After that performance not a hope because what I feel is wrong with the team takes more than an inspiring speech in the dressing room. It takes a couple of convincing wins to regain confidence and that confidence I feel will not be restored to the team before the second leg which is where United would be lucky to win.

deisedevil

internelligent wrote: »

I still expect Man U to win the league but not the CL. After that performance not a hope because what I feel is wrong with the team takes more than an inspiring speech in the dressing room. It takes a couple of convincing wins to regain confidence and that confidence I feel will not be restored to the team before the second leg which is where United would be lucky to win.

That's what has me bothered. We have only one game between now and 2nd leg and I think it's gonna be a massive game for us. A good solid performance would do them the world of good and we could go to Porto with our tails up a bit.

cournioni

Absolutely woeful. I don't think I've ever seen a United team so collectively bad in one season. The basic elements of United's game were ****ing abysmal. Passing, marking etc. etc. Rooney is the only player that actually played last night and even he wasn't at his best.

Porto are no great shakes either when you look at the two goals they conceeded, they were very poor defensively too. So we can be confident enough going out there to try and get a goal. That is only if we improve, big time. We will have a few players back by then too, Rio, Wes, Berbatov, Anderson etc. so hopefully they will be able to have some impact on our performance.

The second leg really is all about how we perform, but going on tonights performance I'm not very confident of that happening. I think a 1-1 draw out there will be the result.

whatawaster

I don’t believe for a second that Rio coming back will solve all your problems. Wasn’t he there for the shambolic defensive performance against Inter? He certainly was against Liverpool. If you think Ferdinand has the character to come in and single-handedly fix what’s been going on in the last few games I think you’re going to be disappointed. As the pundits said last night on RTE – Ferdinand was beside Vidic for his gaffes against Liverpool, and his alleged calming influence and solidity didn’t stop Vidic making mistakes. Indeed Ferdinand made one of his own.
United are definitely looking mentally fragile at the moment. Your fans were slagging Evans last night, but he’s a good defender and has had a good season. Likewise O’Shea. He’s not as bad as people have been making out. Vidic, Evra and Carrick were three of your better players at the start of the season, but they look lost at the moment. Evra’s pathetic attempt to get back and defend for the last goal was particularly damning. While I don’t think now is the time to be blooding youngsters for the sake of it, I would play Fabio in the next game, because that was disgraceful stuff from Evra and he needs to be taught a lesson.

The whole team needs to work harder. Only Fletcher and Rooney really did so last night.
Rio coming back should help things. Of course it should, he’s one of your best players. But he’s by no means going to make Vidic stop making mistakes, make Evra work harder or give Carrick back his urgency.

whatawaster

whatawaster wrote: »

Your fans were slagging Evans last night, but he’s a good defender and has had a good season.

Have to agree with this although Evans looked seriously nervous in the first 15-20 minutes last night. He was like a statue in the tunnel before they came out and I commented to my Dad at the time that he looked very unsure of himself.

He has had a cracking season and is one of the people who have kept United's season ticking by coming in at crucial times and standing up to the challenge but I think last night the occasion got to him. For the first goal he shifted to allow Rodriguez come inside instead of showing him down the outside and cutting off the angle. After that though I think he got his head right and seemed far more assured which is a real testament to his character.

I don't think I can say anything about Rooney really. He is simply amazing.

I don't really think Vidic, O'Shea or Evra played particularly poorly to be honest. I thought the midfield let them down in a big way by being so sloppy in possession and letting Porto run at them so much.

There is no point in criticising Ronaldo or Park for not tracking back because that is not their job. The United system relies on Carrick and Fletcher to be mobile enough to slot over and cover in behind them when United lose possession so Ronaldo and Park can focus on carving out chances and don't have to worry about busting a gut back 50 yards to help their full back. Considering how much Porto moved the ball down Carrick's side when they could and how much they tried to avoid Fletcher at all costs shows what a good game Fletcher had and what a poor one Carrick had.

To be fair though, with this United team they could travel away to Porto and just stuff them ruthlessly. Don't fall foul of the trap of writing their obituaries just yet. They are still in a great spot to win 5 trophies.

m@cc@

internelligent wrote: »

Was seriously shocked at how good Porto were.

Me too and I think United were. The last game I seen Porto in was then they were spanked at the Emirates and the keeper than night had a mare. So was expecting similar things last night.

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair though, with this United team they could travel away to Porto and just stuff them ruthlessly. Don't fall foul of the trap of writing their obituaries just yet. They are still in a great spot to win 5 trophies.

That's true, but the problem is that we don't look like winning any game. A lot is going to have to happen between now and next week.

eZe^

Rio, although he may be playing shakily this season, would have used his leadership skills last night. That's what Man Utd need more than anything, the skill is there, so is the desire, it's just at times much too disjointed. A leader to constantly marshall and shout at players during a match is all that's missing imo.

PHB

Oh, and a special note for Neville, who was without a doubt at fault for the 2nd goal. O'Shea took up a position to stop his marker from getting the ball, and did enough to take it away from him. Neville instead of marking his man, runs up to O'Shea's marker, so when O'Shea does what he's meant to do, the ball lands perfectly to Nevilles marker. Shocking shocking defending, why Fergie brought him on I've honestly no ****ing idea.

United are missing a leader in defence and that leader is Ferdinand. He has been out captain de facto for the last year or two, and one of the few players who will actually tell Carrick and Scholes to cop on and get it together.

Fergie's gona have to earn his money in the next 4 days.

raven136

why were people surprised at how good Porto were?they are unbeaten in 24 lost 2 cup games and won ten drew one away and put out athletico

LuckyLloyd

raven136 wrote: »

why were people surprised at how good Porto were?they are unbeaten in 24 lost 2 cup games and won ten drew one away and put out athletico

Because they were 50 / 1 before the game to win the competition, the media had written them off, they have no worldwide stars, and no - one here watches Portuguese football.

Spud83

PHB wrote: »

Oh, and a special note for Neville, who was without a doubt at fault for the 2nd goal. O'Shea took up a position to stop his marker from getting the ball, and did enough to take it away from him. Neville instead of marking his man, runs up to O'Shea's marker, so when O'Shea does what he's meant to do, the ball lands perfectly to Nevilles marker. Shocking shocking defending, why Fergie brought him on I've honestly no ****ing idea.

United are missing a leader in defence and that leader is Ferdinand. He has been out captain de facto for the last year or two, and one of the few players who will actually tell Carrick and Scholes to cop on and get it together.

Fergie's gona have to earn his money in the next 4 days.

Evans was injured thats why Neville came on.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

United are missing a leader in defence and that leader is Ferdinand. He has been out captain de facto for the last year or two, and one of the few players who will actually tell Carrick and Scholes to cop on and get it together.

Fergie's gona have to earn his money in the next 4 days.

But did Rio not play against Inter, Fulham and Liverpool. I think it's gonna take more than him coming back. The squad as a whole needs to pull together.

Draupnir

No need for panic in my opinion, Porto were a very, very good side and deserved exactly what they got. In fact, that may have deserved more.

I was very impressed by some of their players, particular Hulk with his direct running and Lisandro is a real handful. Cissocko [sp?] at full back got forward well and also tracked back superbly, he looks a top player with fantastic physical quality.

All United will want now is for the Sunderland game to arrive so that they can get playing again, I think there are plenty more twists and turns in this season so I am not about to jump on the "we are doomed" bandwagon nor am I going to say that we are fine. We were crap last night but the great thing about the final few months in football is that each game can be treated as a single entity.

MisterAnarchy

Its setup now like the semi final in 99.
Utd fortuitously drew the first leg 1-1 and went to Turin and we all know what happened.
However we had Roy Keane then and a more attack minded side.
Ferguson has alot of work to do in the next week.

PHB

whatawaster wrote: »

But did Rio not play against Inter, Fulham and Liverpool. I think it's gonna take more than him coming back. The squad as a whole needs to pull together.

Ferdinand coming back will do a couple of things. First off, it will keep Neville out of the squad. He has been directly, directly, at fault for a goal in the past 2 games he has played.
Second, it will give somebody in the squad to bollock at people. We were bad vs. Liverpool, we were fairly solid vs. Inter as much as you can be, and we were piss against Fulham.
There's only so much he can do when he's getting little to no protection from midfield, but he would have made a big difference, especially in terms of defensive organisation at corners.

Liam O

Neville had to cover the player in the center or else he had an easy header, Fletcher was the one ball watching at the edge of the box. Ronaldo too has been directly responsible for goals in the last 2 games and he's not even a defender!

internelligent

raven136 wrote: »

why were people surprised at how good Porto were?they are unbeaten in 24 lost 2 cup games and won ten drew one away and put out athletico

I didn't know their run of form before I read it here but still, if I had read it here before the game started I'd have just thought, 'Portuguese League, means nothing when compared to the Premier league'. sure look what happened to Sporting Lisbon against Bayern and it's not as if Athletico Madrid were trounced. Wasn't too long ago when real madrid were on an amazing run before and then they played an English team only to be shown up for the cracks they have in their team.
I feel people here will have a new found repect for Porto!

PHB

Liam O wrote: »

Neville had to cover the player in the center or else he had an easy header, Fletcher was the one ball watching at the edge of the box. Ronaldo too has been directly responsible for goals in the last 2 games and he's not even a defender!

Well the problem started with Vidic, he got drawn out. O'Shea then had to take an inbetween position, but he still managed to keep the ball away from his marker. Neville shouldn't have been drawn in, especially when he wasn't even effectively stopping the other player from doing anything.

Spud83

PHB wrote: »

Well the problem started with Vidic, he got drawn out. O'Shea then had to take an inbetween position, but he still managed to keep the ball away from his marker. Neville shouldn't have been drawn in, especially when he wasn't even effectively stopping the other player from doing anything.

It started with Evra. Evra was caught out of position. Vidic moved across to deal with the threat from the player with the ball. O'Shea moved across to mark who Vidic should have had, Neville moved across to deal with who O'Shea would have had. Nobody was watching who Neville should have had. Due to

A) Evra being out of position in the first place
b) Flecther being too central and therefore not seeing or at least not reacting to who was coming from the right. Not really Fletchers fault as I think he was playing CM a that stage.

Pro. F

Evra and Carrick started the problem by not tracking back and closing down. Vidic got drawn out because of this.

I wouldn't blame Neville here. He had to make a judgement on whether the man in the centre was a threat. He didn't know that JOS was going to get his head to it, it was a close thing. No point blaming Vidic, JOS or Neville when Evra and Carrick let their man run past them.

Carrick I'm not surprised at - he often lacks urgency. But, Evra not tracking back was a weird one. I wonder if it was tiredness. I know he has been making defensive mistakes recently. Maybe he could do with a rest - both mentally and physically - which might also give him a bit of a kick up the arse. Fabio to start against Sunderland?

PS I do think that Neville is a liability for us at the back - at CB or RB

UnitedIrishman

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

It started with Evra. Evra was caught out of position. Vidic moved across to deal with the threat from the player with the ball. O'Shea moved across to mark who Vidic should have had, Neville moved across to deal with who O'Shea would have had. Nobody was watching who Neville should have had. Due to

A) Evra being out of position in the first place
b) Flecther being too central and therefore not seeing or at least not reacting to who was coming from the right. Not really Fletchers fault as I think he was playing CM a that stage.

This is true, but also the fact that our right winger doesn't track back doesn't help either. That said, I think Nevilles days are over despite what a great servant he's been. Sunday proved against Villa that he wasn't big enough to deal with Carew nor fast enough to deal with Young/Agbonlahor. With Brown and Rafael returning from injury I can't see him getting a look in.

Disappointed with result and performance last night. Rooney looked to be buzzing and it's a pity a few more weren't like him.

The negatives from last night/last few games:
- Scholesy was giving everything back to Porto by trying to optimistic (to say the least) passes around the middle of the park. I counted at least 6 times in the first half alone when he gave away possession from a pass. needs to simplify it a bit more.

- Our defensive problems are stemming from our midfield. We've been missing something in midfield all season - both creatively and defensively. Look back on the Liverpool, Fulham and Villa games. Pretty much everything that was created by the opposition was coming through the middle, which forced our defenders to retreat from the man on the ball to mark their own men. It comes down to lack of concentration but also the fact that there's so little competition in the middle at the minute with Anderson and Hargreaves both out. I remember saying it last August, Hargreaves is a massive loss come the business stage of the season and right now we could do with someone with his drive in the middle of the park. Compare our midfield with that of Liverpool's or Chelsea's at the minute (Scholes, Carrick and Fletcher vs. Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso or Essien, Lampard, Ballack)

Positives:
- We're still in the tie despite playing poorly and Porto having plenty of chances.
- Despite our recent loss of form, we're weathered it pretty well considering. We could have bottled the league, gone out of CL. Instead we're still forging ahead in the league and still in the CL.
- We've got big players returning from injury in the near future.

Daemos

Paddy Power odds on who will reach the semis:

Porto: 5/6
Man Utd: 5/6

Dub13

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats wrong with that post? Its both funny and true in fairness. Liverpool have two wins in the PL over United this season. So while they are current title holders they would seem to suit Liverpool better than maybe Porto would.

I had about 10 reported post to deal with,I locked the thread and issued several yellow cards mostly against Liverpool fans trolling this thread.I was protecting this thread so you lads could talk about the game with no provocation.

I then posted a warning that no more off topic,thread spoiling or trolling will be tolerated and will be met with a instant 2 week ban.This drastic action was needed to keep the thread alive.

This is my last post on this here as this is not the place to discuss mod decisions.