Photo to be needed to collect welfare

redout

Photo ID is to be required in future for collecting welfare payments at Post Offices.

The Department of Social & Family affairs said in a statement that more than 10% of Social Welfare claimants investigated in a targeted spot check have had their payments suspended.

The Department said the vast majority of those whose payments were suspended were non-Irish nationals.



The Department is introducing stricter identity checks in Post Offices throughout the country for people collecting Social Welfare payments.
Minister Mary Hanafin said tighter security checks were necessary as part of the crackdown on those claiming a jobseeker payment but not resident in the state.

'People legitimately collecting a social welfare payment should be able to produce valid photographic ID, such as a Driving Licence, Passport or National Identity card. Staff working in Post Offices have to be satisfied that they are giving the right payment to the right person,' she said.

Notices will be displayed in all post offices throughout the country in the coming weeks advising customers collecting social welfare payments such as Jobseekers, One Parent Family Payment, Back to Work or Child Benefit payments that they must be able to produce a valid ID to collect their payment.

All claimants should be able to produce valid photographic ID when collecting a payment.

Minister Hanafin also outlined preliminary results of particular fraud investigations in eight areas of the country which have been ongoing since the start of March.

Over 2,200 claimants were investigated, through house visits or mailshot. Of those some 275 have had their claims suspended and are no longer entitled to claim a benefit from the State or are under continuing investigation.

The potential savings from stopping these claims alone would be in region of €2m-3m.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0406/welfare.html

Shocker ! Its about bloody time.

Snowie

its a good idea me thinks

Boskowski

redout wrote: »

The potential savings from stopping these claims alone would be in region of €2m-3m.

...a week?

redout

realcam wrote: »

...a week?

I reckon that must be a year because they are only talking about 275 people.

Milky Moo

It seems like common sense to do this all along!
why did it take until now to come up with this idea?

Boskowski

redout wrote: »

I reckon that must be a year because they are only talking about 275 people.

Ye, 275 out of a spot checked 2200 people. that's more than 10%. If that figure was representative the savings must be a lot more than 2-3 million.

But I reckon you're right, they saved 2-3 million just from that spot check, from those 275 people, that's what the article was trying to say.

Noopti

Milky Moo wrote: »

It seems like common sense to do this all along!
why did it take until now to come up with this idea?

Agreed! Why in Gods name are they only requiring I.D now? I thought that it would have been a given.

Gone Drinking

Milky Moo wrote: »

why did it take until now to come up with this idea?

Because we live in Ireland?

old boy

some one i know went to sign on recently, and had to produce their passport plus a domestic bill. it is not before time.

Milky Moo

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Because we live in Ireland?

Ah it all becomes clear now!

astrofool

I find it amazing that they are moving to reassure people that if the post office knows them, that they still won't be asked for ID.

People go once a week to a building and get free money. Looking for an ID should be the absolute minimum required in order to do this.

Run_to_da_hills

Good excuse for the Government to introduce the National ID.

useful_contacts

realcam wrote: »

Ye, 275 out of a spot checked 2200 people. that's more than 10%. If that figure was representative the savings must be a lot more than 2-3 million.

But I reckon you're right, they saved 2-3 million just from that spot check, from those 275 people, that's what the article was trying to say.

why dont they just have a cam take a pic of you at the counter and then when you collect your money look at it to make sure its you (a la credit union)

But im all for this!

themadchef

It's a great idea, it's shocking though that you never need I.D before this. I think that figure is going to be huge by the end of the year.

Sam Vimes

useful_contacts wrote: »

why dont they just have a cam take a pic of you at the counter and then when you collect your money look at it to make sure its you (a la credit union)

But im all for this!

Don't be ridiculous. That would make far too much sense

patmac

The minister was on the RTE this morning saying that the main culprits were foreign nationals and these were the people that were to be taregeted as the local biddy down the Post Office wouldn't be familiar with them.
Here comes the science bit: if it's 1 in 10 of all claimants, and foreign nationalists are the main culprits and they say for instance make up 20% of all claimants, then that means 1 in 2 of all foreign national claims are fraudulent. Of course these figures might be bollix but it seems staggeringly high and extremely lapse on the government not to ask for ID.

trailerparkboy

patmac wrote: »

The minister was on the RTE this morning saying that the main culprits were foreign nationals and these were the people that were to be taregeted as the local biddy down the Post Office wouldn't be familiar with them.
Here comes the science bit: if it's 1 in 10 of all claimants, and foreign nationalists are the main culprits and they say for instance make up 20% of all claimants, then that means 1 in 2 of all foreign national claims are fraudulent. Of course these figures might be bollix but it seems staggeringly high and extremely lapse on the government not to ask for ID.

Surely this cant be right, everybody knows that non Irish nationals would never con the social welfare system, never cause any crime , i find this report very hard to believe, i think the goverment are just picking on the poor non nationals.

useful_contacts

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. That would make far too much sense

OH I KNOW:rolleyes:

(btw cred union pics just AWFUL- they caught me in mid sneeze- the ceann on me-- oh the humanity)

Lollipops23

i know i'm gonna sound thick, but how does producing ID help weed out fraudulent claims?are people prentending to be others so as to collect their money?surely if i'm pretending to be a single parent when i'm not,producing my passport won't help get me caught...?

Heineken Helen

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Because we live in Ireland?

I don't have to produce ID in England to sign on... and the money's paid into my bank account

patmac

Lollipops23 wrote: »

i know i'm gonna sound thick, but how does producing ID help weed out fraudulent claims?are people prentending to be others so as to collect their money?surely if i'm pretending to be a single parent when i'm not,producing my passport won't help get me caught...?

You'd have to produce a passport and utility bill of the child as well.

Probably more to with multiple claims than anything.

Duiske

astrofool wrote: »

People go once a week to a building and get free money.

Is it possible that some, just a few, of the 1,000's laid off recently were paying something called PRSI ?

Capt'n Midnight

Heineken Helen wrote: »

I don't have to produce ID in England to sign on... and the money's paid into my bank account

that's no longer an option here

really supprising that you don't need photo ID for social services card
you've needed it for ID for Dublin bus tickets since the early 1980's

K-9

patmac wrote: »

The minister was on the RTE this morning saying that the main culprits were foreign nationals and these were the people that were to be taregeted as the local biddy down the Post Office wouldn't be familiar with them.
Here comes the science bit: if it's 1 in 10 of all claimants, and foreign nationalists are the main culprits and they say for instance make up 20% of all claimants, then that means 1 in 2 of all foreign national claims are fraudulent. Of course these figures might be bollix but it seems staggeringly high and extremely lapse on the government not to ask for ID.

In border areas, I'd say it isn't far of. Damn Northern Ireland spongers!

Biggins

I personally look forwards to the day when fingerprint ID scanners are introduced at such collection points as well.
I would also introduce these small scanners at Irish airports making everyone entering having to scan their fingerprints into it as well.

Amalgamate both fingerprint databases and what you get is a MUCH clearer way also to stop/spot any supposed monthly in-flights by scammers as their frequency at flying in coincides with payouts within a day or two!

~ It's not rocket science for crying out loud!

shenanigans1982

I suppose someone should have copped on when the majority of foreign claims were by Prawo Jazdy.

marcsignal

It's a good idea, but a National ID Card with photo, to cover everything, would have helped solve this too. Carrying such a card wouldn't bother me, but how many others posting would be prepared to carry one ?

Biggins

marcsignal wrote: »

It's a good idea, but a National ID Card with photo, to cover everything, would have helped solve this too. Carrying such a card wouldn't bother me, but how many others posting would be prepared to carry one ?

If your determined to defraud the state consistently, such ID's can and I'm guessing, do be faked.
That AND fingerprint ID and a whole community of scammers would be up the creek more so big time.

marcsignal

Biggins wrote: »

If your determined to defraud the state consistently, such ID's can and I'm guessing, do be faked.
That AND fingerprint ID and a whole community of scammers would be up the creek more so big time.

Good point. Retinal scanning is another possibility. I had my pic taken leaving Heathrow last month using one of those cameras. It was a little unnerving, but I can see how it's necessary to stay a step ahead of scammers.

More spot checks on peoples adresses too would catch a few out.

Carawaystick

cost's 88 euros to get a passport and a bit more to get a car to do a driving test which you might fail and another fifteen lids for the license - 40% of a weeks income there..... plus the waiting times to get them renewed - what do you do then?


Of course no-one could fly to Belfast or Derry abd completely bypass your magic stazi system Biggins....

Biggins

Carawaystick wrote: »

cost's 88 euros to get a passport and a bit more to get a car to do a driving test which you might fail and another fifteen lids for the license - 40% of a weeks income there..... plus the waiting times to get them renewed - what do you do then?

If your wanting to get state benefits, surely a person should be willing to secure their own payments by obtaining a more secure form of ID?
(- as regards the cost, what if a euro or two at most was deducted every few weeks from benefit payments? If a person can gripe about that and still soon pay (JUST as an example) a tenner for a pack of cancer sticks A DAY, where is their priorities?).

Carawaystick wrote: »

Of course no-one could fly to Belfast or Derry abd completely bypass your magic stazi system Biggins....

..and what in hell is stopping other countries from doing same?
At the very least Northern Ireland airports can adopt the same system.
Sooner or later, like it or not, they will. What America does this year, Europe does most of the time sooner or later as catch-up!

Such a system as I've suggested would also help stop greatly, cross-border dole scamming also by the way and as regards money lost, in the first year or two alone, such set-up costs would be reclaimed!

Whats so stazi about it?
Your proving your own ID...
No one else can get your payments as easy through fraud...
You can further prove that any false claims by authorities are in turn, baseless...

If one is only getting what they are entitled to, they have nothing to fear!
Scammers will find bigger objection to the adoption of such a system and its easy to see why.