tractors,diggers,plant being reposessed

redvictoria

Would love to know the solicitors name, having bank problems myself.

leitrim lad

did you get the pm red victoria, i just hope youre not a banker or a baliff trying it on.

david

Not quite a banker/financier/thug/repo man no. :rolleyes:

I hear an awful lot of these sob stories from property developers who hit it big in the boom, lived well beyond their means and now they struggle to make repayments on their treasured Range Rovers.

It is common business practice to try to gear your financing activities evenly. i.e. for every euro of equity your business holds you shouldn't exceed a euro of debt capital/non-current liability. For a sustainable enterprise you should prepare your own forecasts and focus on organic growth; not hop on the construction industry bandwagon at first opportunity just because Paddy down the road got a new fleet of mini diggers etc. Bank shortsightedness and the ease at which they issued large debentures/lease purchase schemes is absolutely no excuse for bad financial planning.

Plant/vehicles are rapidly depreciable consumables. There is always a high risk of getting into negative equity.

I think most people missed the point of my last post. It wasn't to promote aggressive reposession tactics in fact I am strongly against any form of intimidation by hired goons or breach of contract. I just have no sympathy for anybody in the construction industry who is up sh1t creek at the moment.

leitrim lad

yes david but what about the man who wasnt on the band wagon, he was on the silage wagon, seasonal work and the "developers" drove his interest rates sky high,

he now has no silage wagon for the summer , but he has plenty of bruses from the bullies, and still has the repayments , and probably a young family ,

and probably never built a house in his life or even worked on the buildings

dont forget the poor farmer david the back bone of ireland

david

Well thats fair enough but what has changed for the common farmer? The recession has hardly hit them as hard as the developers. As you said yourself the farmer will always have grass/silage to cut. I'd personally never buy anything knowing that I couldn't afford the repayments following slight interest rate fluctuation. That just doesn't make sense.

redvictoria

david wrote: »

Well thats fair enough but what has changed for the common farmer? The recession has hardly hit them as hard as the developers. As you said yourself the farmer will always have grass/silage to cut. I'd personally never buy anything knowing that I couldn't afford the repayments following slight interest rate fluctuation. That just doesn't make sense.

Interest rates have nothing to do with present peoblems, if anything they have helped. Many purchase decisions based on advice / projections by the people ( Government and Banks ) who were paid to know. Bottom line we make a mistake, we pay - they make a mistake WE pay.

leitrim lad

i see your point , david

but if you need and i mean really need a new baler or tractor because the old one is spun out and not worth fixing,

and you go to the bank , you cant really help it if some gubbain has interest rates drove up

just to built a line of matchboxes in the back of a bog meadow on the corner of the local village, and they still havent sold, why doesnt the bank reposess them, rather than let the government buy them

our work is seasonal and that cant be helped neither, and so is the cash flow

laurence997

I heard of a guy who knew his tractor was goin to be repossesed and put a spanner in the gearbox. Was sold at auction and after a few hours the whole gearbox had to be replaced (by john deere) costing more than the tractor was worth.

Why damage the tractor when it doesn't cost the banks It only hits the next poor guy down the road.

leitrim lad

why go to the auction and buy another mans tractor,

i know of a good few cases like that laurence997

there isnt a machine in that auction that isnt tampered with somehow,

one example is a hitachi ex135usr with 4081 GENUINE hours, the last time i moved it for the previos owner it had a quick hitch, an ignition, hyd oil, and 11,000 hours, it is in that yard since last august

no bidders,and i wonder why, it was also resprayed about 4 months before they took it, so it stands out

martinr5232

laurence997 wrote: »

I heard of a guy who knew his tractor was goin to be repossesed and put a spanner in the gearbox. Was sold at auction and after a few hours the whole gearbox had to be replaced (by john deere) costing more than the tractor was worth.

Why damage the tractor when it doesn't cost the banks It only hits the next poor guy down the road.

Because anybody who buys repo equipment is only taking advantage of someone elses misfortune.

And they deserve all they get.

leitrim lad

very true martinr5232

i could buy the whole bloody yard up there, but i wouldnt give the dirty little bast@rd the satisfaction

and i see they are expanding into the printer,fridge trade aswell as plant.

cork1

if they got a total boycott they wouldnt repo gear cause then they would have to store it

jhegarty

I don't think you understand how it works. The less money the repo company get for the stuff the more the original person still owes. The only one hurt by lower prices is the person who had their stuff repossessed.

Builderfromhell

Just stumbled across this very interesting topic.

I have not heard of people having their machinery re-possessed but a rural friend of mine who does a lot of contracting told me of a lot of farmers who had complained of their tractors and other machinery being stolen. The rumour is that the farmers are saying this because they are embarrased to admit that their machines were re-possesed.

On a seperate issue, I don't see anything wrong with buying plant, machinery or cars at auction. I heard of a guy who bought a Land rover 00 reg. for 500 euro as no one else was interested in bidding.
All goods are getting cheaper including property. I don't see anything wrong with buying now if you can afford it. You don't know the reason the items were re-possesed.

leitrim lad

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Just stumbled across this very interesting topic.

I have not heard of people having their machinery re-possessed but a rural friend of mine who does a lot of contracting told me of a lot of farmers who had complained of their tractors and other machinery being stolen. The rumour is that the farmers are saying this because they are embarrased to admit that their machines were re-possesed.

On a seperate issue, I don't see anything wrong with buying plant, machinery or cars at auction. I heard of a guy who bought a Land rover 00 reg. for 500 euro as no one else was interested in bidding.
All goods are getting cheaper including property. I don't see anything wrong with buying now if you can afford it. You don't know the reason the items were re-possesed.

wrong wrong and wrong,

if you buy someones misfortune you deserve nothing but the worst of luck,

builder from hell would you like if your home was reposessed and i bought it for 1/8 the value off the bank ,and left you on the side of the road with your young family, and the other 7/8 of the balance.

i know of 2 other cases which have happened since i last posted here where 2 different mens yards were entered in the middle of the dark night and quite a substainsail amount of machinery taken from each man

2004/2005 machines with 5 year finance in place 2 payments remaining, and you have the cheek to tell me the banks are fully within their rights to send in these scum into peoples yards to steal property that they dont even own in the first place to auction it

leitrim lad

another thing i will gladly point out is that according to a banker very high up in one of the main banks,

tells me that if you owe 90% of the price of the machine you will be more or less left aside because they cannot recover the full balance via auction,

however they are targeting the people who owe 10-20% of the balance ,mainly because they will recoup more than what is owed in the auction,

but they seem to forget firstly that they need a court order to reposess anything that is more than 1/3 paid for, let it be a lease or hp,

and secondly they forget who is paying their wages in the first place , firstly with the interest paid on the loan to the bank, and secondly with the bail out from us the tax payers

they also forget that they are semi state companies now ,due to their mismanagment and wrekless trading, which in turn gives any tax payer the right to more or less what ever he/she wishes to propose to them,

Slig

When I was growing up on the home farm my father was a contractor. He had a 10 year old tractor and a forage wagon to collect the silage. If it was too hot you took the door off the cab (or it fell off)

My uncle is a contractor aswell. But every tractor he owns has air con. He can cut silage in 2 days that took my dad a week. Because he made the investment in better machinery he got more business.

The Celtic Tiger era was all about over extending and over borrowing. If you did you made money and lived comfortably, If you didnt the price of everything was so over inflated that you couldnt afford a house, car or even a McDonalds meal. Everyone over borrowed INCLUDING the banks. The only difference is that they have a louder voice closer to the governments ear and they are getting a bail out. They will get away with these shadow repossessions of machinery and move on to houses and at the end of the day they will make their money.

I know its not fair but the little man is always walked on and it happens in every country the only difference here is that our government make no effort to conceal their actions because they dont have to.

leitrim lad

slig
its good to see some one else talking sense, apart from the few we had here saying it was alright to buy another mans misfortune,

there is a way to stop your machinery being taken and it involves a solicitor, and there is some tricks that can be used in according with a legal binding contract,

anyone who wants can pm me and i will give details of legalities that can be used in your defence as long as the moderator allows it,thanks mod

i know if the thing keeps going the way it is and these bullies keep robben machinery i will be the only contractor left in my general area this year, and according to other men they cannot now get any finance or loans because there machinery was taken and they are now black listed,

and i wouldnt be able to handle a quarter of it between tractors and diggers and lorries ,let alone the whole area, im the only turf man left , and not far off the only digger/baler man left, and every other lorry around me accept roadstone has been auctioned

leitrim lad

this croud of bullies are getting worse

i know of a man in the midlands area ,who had a rockbreaker and 7 buckets stolen from his yard ,thursday night friday morning, between 3-6am

they are now in that auction yard ,to be sold, and no finance used on them in the first place to even buy them,

he had a machine working on the n6 ,that was late with 2 payments ,so the bullies couldnt find the machine ,they decided to enter his yard after watching to make sure nobody was home, and stole what they considered enough to cover the 2 payments and their costs, the breaker was worth about 20 grand, and the buckets about 1500-1800 each, 7 of them,

and he owed the bank about 5 grand in arrears, again the gardai were very help ful ,was aswell off not bothering to ring them atall, he was with the solicitor and he can get the items back when he clears the arrears,

but the auctioneer who has no say in the matter whatsoever(only the part of a thief) told him if he fails to pay what they want his buckets and breaker will be sold and his machine will be lifted also

that was a nice conversation outside mass this morning, i can tell you all that particular auctioneer is coming to a sad sorry end with all the men thats out for him

cork1

this is absolutely crazy! if you go your gear gets taken if you dont go out and you see them they thump you and then your machinery is taken. what happens if you break into theyre yard and take your stuff back it the same thing? but i bet youd be arrested.

Slidey

Look lads a bit of sense is needed here.

If you over extended yourself and bought what you couldnt afford it is going to get taken off you.

Yes I feel sorry for people this has happened to but you cannot expect to keep something for which you cannot pay.

Before the boom builders who needed a teleporter hired one. When things were good they all went out and bought one, alog with the landcruiser and the tri-axle Ivor-Williams.

Now they have no work and have defaulted on the payments.

Answer me this, if they owed you the money, would you take the machine back and try and re coup your losses?

I know I would, and no fence or gate would stop me.

cork1

Slidey wrote: »

Answer me this, if they owed you the money, would you take the machine back and try and re coup your losses?

I know I would, and no fence or gate would stop me.

then you should be arrested like the rest of them! it is illeagal to enter someones property without their permission or a court order.now if you have a court order you dont need to cut locks off gates and you dont do it at 3.a.m! if you went to take a machine and saw the owner would you beat the ****e out of him? were not disputing that you fellas lived beyond their means but not everyone in this situation got there out of stupidity! i know fellas who had machines and they traded them in and upgraded them last year because they had plenty of work ahead of them and all of a sudden work was halted. nobody saw a recession as bad as this coming!

Slidey

Yes it is unlucky for these guys, however this is the way of life.

You take your gamble and it either pays off or it doesnt.

TBH banks should be using the correct procedures to getting these machines back. I know guys who can no longer pay for lorries. They contacted the finance and told them the same. In all cases that I know of the finance company paused the repayments and told them to keep the vehicles for the time being.

As for the people who deliberately mess with the machinery before it is lifted, it is totally childish and petty behaviour and anyone who does it will have no luck

marzic

are the IFA trying to do anything about this? with a lobby as strong as theirs you might think they would get involved!

bladespin

Builderfromhell wrote: »

On a seperate issue, I don't see anything wrong with buying plant, machinery or cars at auction. I heard of a guy who bought a Land rover 00 reg. for 500 euro as no one else was interested in bidding.
All goods are getting cheaper including property. I don't see anything wrong with buying now if you can afford it. You don't know the reason the items were re-possesed.

There's nothing wrong with buying a repo item, it could happen for a variety of reasons, saying that it would carry misfortune is childish.

I'm not condoning in any way the actions of these reposession companies though, legally that sounds very dodgy indeed.
That said a lot of contractors just stopped paying for their equipment when their work dried up, that's not right either.

adne

marzic wrote: »

are the IFA trying to do anything about this? with a lobby as strong as theirs you might think they would get involved!

In Fairness Marzic, This has nothing to the IFA.. Its the Guards / Law that should be controlling this

bushy...

cork1 wrote: »

then you should be arrested like the rest of them! it is illeagal to enter someones property without their permission or a court order.now if you have a court order you dont need to cut locks off gates and you dont do it at 3.a.m! if you went to take a machine and saw the owner would you beat the ****e out of him? were not disputing that you fellas lived beyond their means but not everyone in this situation got there out of stupidity! i know fellas who had machines and they traded them in and upgraded them last year because they had plenty of work ahead of them and all of a sudden work was halted. nobody saw a recession as bad as this coming!

Its could end in tears for someone one of the days , very easily.

Take the example above of the guy owing money on a machine and a few lads take a rockbreaker and buckets instead in the small hours.
This possible situation would be made worse if he was single ( no kids , much less " to lose" ) = quicker to make decisions.

To keep it simple , either loses the plot that his last remaining way of earning money is being stolen or knows the gear is being taken in lieu of an excavator.

Decides f. this , been burying stuff for a living for 10years

Then drops the two of them with a rifle.

Wouldn't/couldn't do it ? Might regret it afterward but thinks at the time he hasn't much to lose anyway.

Farls

Slidey your looking at the smaller picture here I think. If a man needs the machinery to make money and only owes 2 or 3 payments in the winter time then common sense would tell anyone to leave him be till the money making season is in and see how he fairs...even re-negotiate his terms so he pays less for longer thus making you more on interest. Instead of using these bully tactics.

If what these bucks liftin machinery are at is legal then why do they do it under the cover of darkness? I agree with bushy its only a matter of time before a shotgun is taken to one of them and whilst its not the right thing to do they have men drove that far. What about these men with families, parents living with them probably afraid in there own homes after hearing what is happening.

I know a repo man that does this sort of work and I can safely say it takes a different breed of man to do it. His own family wouldn't have him near their place.

I was looking towards auctions up until I heard about this going on a few weeks ago and I'm thankful I never spent a penny at one. How would you have luck buying another mans misfortune.

Slidey

Farls wrote: »

Slidey your looking at the smaller picture here I think. If a man needs the machinery to make money and only owes 2 or 3 payments in the winter time then common sense would tell anyone to leave him be till the money making season is in and see how he fairs...even re-negotiate his terms so he pays less for longer thus making you more on interest. Instead of using these bully tactics.

I agree, it is silly to repossess if this is the case but as I also said if you make contact with the companies involved and talk reasonably to them that there is more chance of a little lee-way

Farls wrote: »

If what these bucks liftin machinery are at is legal then why do they do it under the cover of darkness?

I would imagine it is to try and avoid confrontation. I do see your point however and it is rather sneaky.

Farls wrote: »

I was looking towards auctions up until I heard about this going on a few weeks ago and I'm thankful I never spent a penny at one. How would you have luck buying another mans misfortune.

They are going to have the arrears one way or another. At least if the machinery is sold sooner rather than later they may get more money for it and end up owing less

Farls

Slidey wrote: »

I agree, it is silly to repossess if this is the case but as I also said if you make contact with the companies involved and talk reasonably to them that there is more chance of a little lee-way

Should the banks/companies themselves not make contact with the man owing the money first? If your 2 payments in default a call from the bank asking you in to re-negotiate the payments or just a friendly chat to see if you have work coming up etc could avoid all this. Or a letter asking you to call in for a chat before such a date of further proceedings would avoid this also. It works both ways.

Slidey wrote: »

I would imagine it is to try and avoid confrontation. I do see your point however and it is rather sneaky.

As has been said here many times before its because what they are doing is actually illegal in many if not most cases. They have no warrant or right to enter a persons property never mind lift machinery.

Slidey wrote: »

They are going to have the arrears one way or another. At least if the machinery is sold sooner rather than later they may get more money for it and end up owing less

If the machinery wasn't taken in the first place they would have a method of paying the arrears instead of owing money on a machine that they no longer have. Like most things in this country they are going about things completely the wrong way. Who pays for all this mess in the long run? The likes of us and the men that lost the machines in the first place in bailing out these banks with higher tax rates and income levy's and the likes. :mad:

Banks need to realise too though it was them that authorized the loans in the first place, where is the blame there??