SUPER TUESDAY! Budget discussion thread MERGED

K-9

ShooterSF wrote: »

Link? All I can find is Irish urged not to cut overseas aid...

It's on the official Dept. of Finance budget page.

ShooterSF

K-9 wrote: »

It's on the official Dept. of Finance budget page.

Thanks. I managed to read that now. Didn't hear him mention it yesterday. However I read in a link that a cut of €95m was made in October which accounted for about 10% of overseas aid. That leaves about €755m still from my maths ( I may be wrong.. will continue searching)

Just another reason why I'm glad I don't smoke.

Rented Mule

meditraitor wrote: »

Citizens

Something fishy is going on I tells ya

With the cuts to the Department of Defence, it's all of the Spanish fishing trawlers that are encroaching on our territorial waters.

K-9

ShooterSF wrote: »

Thanks. I managed to read that now. Didn't hear him mention it yesterday. However I read in a link that a cut of €95m was made in October which accounted for about 10% of overseas aid. That leaves about €755m still from my maths ( I may be wrong.. will continue searching)

You might argue it's still too much, but it is a big cut. That would be a 20% odd cut and no doubt more to come. It's an easy politically convenient option.

Biggins

I think the whole god-damn budget was a frackin' non-funny joke.
Fianna Fail (and the spineless, lying Greens that is amazingly still propping them up) are taking the piss and quietly laughting into their drinks at the dail bar as they continue the farce that they are running called "Our Government".

The wife has been on at me for some time that indeed, its time to abandon ship.
I argued A LOT (wanting, trying to stay loyal to Ireland and its decent people) against it till now.
Sadly, the complacent sheep of Ireland just will continue to take the crap being dished out.

I am now as of yesterday looking for a way to move my family and my business out of this country.
I am not the first and I sure as hell will not be the last.

That is a damn shame - a big damn shame - but as the useless lying money/expenses grabbing scumbags are still allowed to perpetuate in the Dail (only 12 have taken pay cuts themselves! Talk about not leading by example!) and rarely occasionally turn up there and actually be where they should be more often, the sad farce that is Irish politics will continue unabated and the rest of us will continue to pay for their luxury homes, cars, perks and junkets.

ShooterSF

K-9 wrote: »

You might argue it's still too much, but it is a big cut. That would be a 20% odd cut and no doubt more to come. It's an easy politically convenient option.

It is still too much. In the current situation, anything is too much. I won't get into a huge argument over it, it was simply the point pulled out of my original post by others but for example people complain we are spending too much on dole payments but we are giving the equivalent of 72,600 yearly dole payments to overseas aid. Crazy.

Another way of breaking it down is if you took the 2% income levy minimum wage workers are paying it would take 2,127,359 minimum wage earners levies just to pay this. Therefore we could easily get rid of that levy on minimum wage at least.

TripleAce

CountingCrows wrote: »

Tax calculator

Great site, thank you!

Net Take Home Pay 2009 Post Budget vs. 2009 Pre Budget €-26.54 (weekly).

Yeah...so about -100€/month

Johnnio13

I know the budget is a kick in the ass for most people and there are still a lot of people slipping through the net and getting away with a lot. But the reasoning behind it is simple.

If you're diving further and further into debt, there comes a point when monetary stimulus ceases to be stimulating
If the markets believe that the public finances are out of control, they demand a higher and higher return for buying government debt. And a higher interest rate for government borrowing means higher rates for everyone else as well. So, the negative impact of that rise in borrowing costs may more than outweigh the positive effect of extra government borrowing. Debt cannot rise indefinitely without raising doubts about the ability to repay. So countries would stop lending to us and we would go broke!

Thanks counting crows for the tax calculator. Down about the ton a month as well.

thelordofcheese

Biggins wrote: »

I think the whole god-damn budget was a frackin' non-funny joke.
Fianna Fail (and the spineless, lying Greens that is amazingly still propping them up) are taking the piss and quietly laughting into their drinks at the dail bar as they continue the farce that they are running called "Our Government".

The wife has been on at me for some time that indeed, its time to abandon ship.
I argued A LOT (wanting, trying to stay loyal to Ireland and its decent people) against it till now.
Sadly, the complacent sheep of Ireland just will continue to take the crap being dished out.

I am now as of yesterday looking for a way to move my family and my business out of this country.
I am not the first and I sure as hell will not be the last.

That is a damn shame - a big damn shame - but as the useless lying money/expenses grabbing scumbags are still allowed to perpetuate in the Dail (only 12 have taken pay cuts themselves out of what, 500+ ? Talk about not leading by example!) and rarely occasionally turn up there and actually be where they should be more often, the sad farce that is Irish politics will continue unabated and the rest of us will continue to pay for their luxury homes, cars, perks and junkets.

Adama wouldn't run away....

Biggins

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Adama wouldn't run away....

No. He'd shoot the fcukers! :mad:
I don't have that option ...yet!

2 stroke

We need some responsible reporting on this budget. My young nieces were very upset last night but didn't tell their mother what was wrong until this morning. They had heard on the telly that "the tshock cancelled Father Christmas".

DrumSteve

the spirit of cromwell is alive and well.

SheroN

Ireland = welfare state.

Aseth

Why when we need to save money the goverment always starts with citizens? Why not start with themselves? Can anyone tell me why member of a Dail needs a salary bigger than 100k pa(which is lot anyway)? Especially they get their money back for transport, have subsidized cantine and can claim other expences as well? It surely is a d@mn big amount of money for someone who's not doing anything except going for meetings, scr*wing the economy and our lives

thelordofcheese

Aseth wrote: »

Why when we need to save money the goverment always starts with citizens? Why not start with themselves? Can anyone tell me why member of a Dail needs a salary bigger than 100k pa(which is lot anyway)? Especially they get their money back for transport, have subsidized cantine and can claim other expences as well? It surely is a d@mn big amount of money for someone who's not doing anything except going for meetings, scr*wing the economy and our lives

Because there are roughly 166 people in the dail and 4 million not.
You'll get more by taxing that 4 million than by making pointless, populist cuts into TD wages.

Wook

I wonder how much of a percentage of the posters here are actual breadwinners, especialy the ones that were saying it wasnt hard enough or it should have hurted even more.

Perhaps some of you should have a discussion in your family home with your mom and dad, and start supporting your parents with selling your Xbox360 or your PS3.

CountingCrows

Wook wrote: »

start supporting your parents with selling your Xbox360 or your PS3.

I don't want to live in a world without high definition consoles

KeyLimePie

SheroN wrote: »

Ireland = welfare state.

I wouldn't say so with england next door to us.



However I'm pleased with the government for halving welfare for the under 20s i took my first trip to the dole office yesterday to support a friend who had to sign on and I must say that I ran into half my class in there

ShooterSF

CountingCrows wrote: »

I don't want to live in a world without high definition consoles

+1 (Im out of thanks and ya made me laugh!)

thelordofcheese

CountingCrows wrote: »

I don't want to live in a world without high definition consoles

*hugs his Wii*

Standard Def for the Win!

DrumSteve

1080i FTW!

thelordofcheese

DrumSteve wrote: »

1080i FTW!

Sir, i challenge you to a format war, in the old navy tradition.
Industry standards at dawn.

Tar.Aldarion

ISO! ISO! ISO! ISO! ISO! ISO! ISO! ISO! ISO!

DrumSteve

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Sir, i challenge you to a format war, in the old navy tradition.
Industry standards at dawn.

Challenge accepted. because of my clearer picture my accuracy will be better and you sir, will find yourself with a mid-priced flatscreen lodged somewhere between your jaw and your duodenum.

skywalker

Apparently the levys will be made permanent in the next budget. Just because they can.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0408/budget.html

nohopengn

We all have to take the pain in the budget. Why then didn't the gov introduce a tax using the pro-rata percentage model e.g.
€17,500 = 2%
€35,000 = 4%
€70,000 = 8%
€140,000 = 16%
€280,000 = 32%

This would indeed be painful for all, would generate more funds and would be seen internationally as a government who were prepared to take the hard decisions.

thelordofcheese

DrumSteve wrote: »

Challenge accepted. because of my clearer picture my accuracy will be better and you sir, will find yourself with a mid-priced flatscreen lodged somewhere between your jaw and your duodenum.

Jokes on you my good fellow, i lost my duodenum in the VHS/betamax wars.

Biggins

Is there anyone actually fooled by these "levy's"?

The government wants to cut down on the use of the word "tax" where possible so they try this minor PR wording stunt.

The only people they are fooling is themselves - but then given their low mental capacity - that comes as no surprise!

"A rose by any other name is still a rose" - or in this case a nettle ...and we all get stung!

DrumSteve

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Jokes on you my good fellow, i lost my duodenum in the VHS/betamax wars.

hmmm you got lucky... this time.
next time ill aim for the spleen.

javaboy

Biggins wrote: »

Is there anyone actually fooled by these "levy's"?

The government wants to cut down on the use of the word "tax" where possible so they try this minor PR wording stunt.

The only people they are fooling is themselves - but then given their low mental capacity - that comes as no surprise!

"A rose by any other name is still a rose" - or in this case a nettle ...and we all get stung!

Part of the reason they use levies is certainly to avoid the bad PR of raising taxes but there's also major practical complications with adjusting tax bands midway through a financial year.

With that said they should really axe the levies in December and adjust the tax bands accordingly but it looks like they're not going to.

marcsignal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bamaWK0C18

Sanjuro

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Because there are roughly 166 people in the dail and 4 million not.
You'll get more by taxing that 4 million than by making pointless, populist cuts into TD wages.

Cuts to TD wages may not make a shred of difference when it comes to taxes and the economy. But to see these feckless hypocrites all telling us solemnly that 'we're in this together' while the lot of them are paying themselves ridiculous wages is sickening. They are (unfortunately) elected public representatives. They have to start leading by example.

Biggins

Sanjuro wrote: »

Cuts to TD wages may not make a shred of difference when it comes to taxes and the economy. But to see these feckless hypocrites all telling us solemnly that 'we're in this together' while the lot of them are paying themselves ridiculous wages is sickening. They are (unfortunately) elected public representatives. They have to start leading by example.

Thats the point I was trying to make earlier.
If they can be bothered to cut Christmas payments to the unemployed (I'm not defending the payments), the miserable money raking in schites should also contribute - but NO - only 12 of the whole lot have taken a cut.
(Simple example: Jackie Healy O'Reay 89,000 in expenses last year on top of 80,000 in wages and additional perks)


One rule for them and one rule for the rest of us who are now getting heavier hammered to still pay their crazy wages, expenses and perks.

jimmycrackcorm

Is it just me or does anyone else realize that the government are basically side-stepping the big bang theory. i.e There is a lot more pain yet to come but it owuld be impossible to do it all in one go otherwise there would be an uprising.

I have to say that the budget wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. I agree that something had to be done to get us out of this mess, however, it pisses me off greatly that everyone says tax the higher earners more but means test everything, meaning that the people who are paying for everything get none of it back! If they means test childrens allowance, I know I wont get it, if they means test college fees, I will have to pay for my child to go to college and yet my husband and I are paying high rates of tax, and for what?! I really don't mind paying tax at all, I just hate that people think it's ok for people on middle incomes to clean up the mess of the banks and to foot the bill for people who can't pay back their loans.

I have not caused any of this! I have a mortgage but no other loans, I own my car, my husband owns his, the only thing I have is a credit card which I do owe some money on, if it came to it I could pay that off in one go so no big deal, I just choose not to. I keep hearing "we were all greedy" "we were having two holidays a year" "we were buying things we couldn't afford" I wasn't greedy, yeh, I might have had two holidays a year but I paid for them with my own money, I didn't borrow off anyone for anything I bought so how is that greedy?

Anyhoo, I'm actually sick listening to the depression but I needed that little rant ha!!!

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

Thats the point I was trying to make earlier.
If they can be bothered to cut Christmas payments to the unemployed (I'm not defending the payments), the miserable money raking in schites should also contribute - but NO - only 12 of the whole lot have taken a cut.
(Simple example: Jackie Healy O'Reay 89,000 in expenses last year on top of 80,000 in wages and additional perks)


One rule for them and one rule for the rest of us who are now getting heavier hammered to still pay their crazy wages, expenses and perks.

Surprisingly enough, one of his sons is being groomed to take over his seat at the next election - because he's getting too old to carry that heavy sack around.

Biggins

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else realize that the government are basically side-stepping the big bang theory. i.e There is a lot more pain yet to come but it would be impossible to do it all in one go otherwise there would be an uprising.

To bang me own drum - I have been saying this for weeks.
They are doing it in phases as to limit at any one stage the uproar without it at any one time causing it to surpass a certain point and bring down the government.

Do it all in stages. Just when we get used to one bunch of cuts, taxes etc, etc... then comes the next lot... wait a few months, then comes the next lot again ...and again ...and again...

I'm off to France at the end of this month for four days on business - I'll be checking out properties while there.
I'm getting the fcuk out with my family, of this country thats run by a gang of thugs, two-faced crooks and liars.

I know its bad there if not worse but at least the population there or elsewhere is not as complacent and more so get up off their collective asses and do something - anything - a lot more!

To steal a quote:
"the government should be afraid of the people,
- not the people afraid of the government!"

Eoin

Biggins wrote: »

I'm getting the fcuk out of this country with my family thats run by a gang of thugs, two-faces crooks and liars.

Jaysus, if I had a family that was run by a gang of thugs, two-faces crooks and liars, I'd probably leave them behind!

pajodublin

Fizman wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance but how much was the dole Christmas bonus?

thelordofcheese wrote: »

It was a double week, so you got twice what you normally get.

Making Cromwell and Linehan the only two people i can think of that have tried to cancel christmas.

May i point out not everyone got the double week. Not sure of the provisions of it.
My parents get it as they are on disability pension whereas I, nor anybody i know who is forced to claim the dole, got it either.

K-9

javaboy wrote: »

Part of the reason they use levies is certainly to avoid the bad PR of raising taxes but there's also major practical complications with adjusting tax bands midway through a financial year.

With that said they should really axe the levies in December and adjust the tax bands accordingly but it looks like they're not going to.

And that they will do.

They've pointed this out already, but sure I suppose nobody was listening.

Darragh29

The people have risen up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uecywt7pB-4