Would the USA ever fup off!

pablomakaveli

ejmaztec wrote: »

They didn't want the British to join either - in fact they probably wanted to be in it on their own, with Germany acting as a consultant.

The French have always been against expansion of the EU. They hate the idea of their influence being diluted. The french never seem able to accept the fact their country just isn't important anymore. But i'll take sulking french over interfering americans any day.

bigeasyeah

I dont really think European states have a great track record of responsibly holding power.

We

What's wrong with what he did? Is it because he expressed an opinion over something he has no involvement in or is it because you all think hes wrong?
I'm not seeing the big deal here.. ?

Pepe LeFrits

Biggins wrote: »

They are not doing it for our benefit - but theirs in the long run! To the USA, the EU is like everything else - a means to an end - their end!

Someone looking after their own interests first? Whatever next.

Duck's hoop

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The french never seem able to accept the fact their country just isn't important anymore.

France is a great hulking monolith on an EU level. Them and the Germans. Without them it'd crumble.

Riddle101

People should be weary of what they're asking.

Sarkozy: P!ss of America, don't run our EU
Obama: Fine, I guess we won't build that new missile defence thingie
Sarkozy: Fine

Two hours later
Russia: Stupid EU *invades Europe*

Seriously though the US is only trying to gain more allies between NATO countries and the Middle East. Having Turkey in the EU would build stronger ties. However since I am against EU expansion and think it should only be limited to Europe, I think Obama is wrong in trying to interfere.

Duck's hoop

Riddle101 wrote: »

Having Turkey in the EU would build stronger ties.

Not to mention keep those pesky Kurdish 'terrorists' in check. Fly in the ointment.

wylo

I liked him when he wasnt telling us about how were in more danger from terrorism than the US, or when he wasnt coming over pushing this whole Afghanistan problem on us even more, or when he was going on about reaching out and working together as opposed to his little bitching about North Korea, hes as bad as bush.

Obama has started pissing me off the last week or so to be honest, I think its time he fukked off home!!!!!

daveharnett

the_syco wrote: »

To the Frogs & Krauts: you don't own the EU, and stop acting like you do! They make the US look like a democracy!

Given that they (and the UK) effectively pay for the EU, and would end up paying the massive sums that turkey would receive as an EU member, I'd say they are entitled to be the first to comment.

WRT Obama's comments, settle down. Turkey is a major military ally of the US. This whole song and dance was to keep the Turks happy, nothing more. The US is well aware that it's opinion on how the EU conducts itself means jack s**t.

Edit: Italy kicks in quite a lot too apparently.

marcsignal

Overheal wrote: »

Somewhat apples and oranges. Turkey is a pretty key strategic asset from a NATO perspective. Besides, have ye so quickly forgotten the business with Georgia last summer? The area is not the stablest and there is good reason to want to lock it up within the EU.

but if i remember correctly the Georgians started all that business, and imo, the Russians responded the same way the US would in similar circumstances.

Overheal wrote: »

Remember that border that Turkey shares with Iraq?

True, but Iraq is under US control, and even after US troops leave, the US will still have permanent bases there. What I really meant by Mid East was the Israel Palestine issue. The new Israeli admin doesn't seem to have any quams about illegal settlements, and land grabbing, which simply has to stop.

I genuinely hope Obama can make some headway in this area. If he demonstrates that he is in the pocket of AIPAC, I think we will just get more of the same, and that would be a shame, that he can't bring real 'change' to that region.

Biggins

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Someone looking after their own interests first? Whatever next.

I get your point - but that still don't make it right nor does it mean we have to accept it quietly or take it on the chin either.

I'm for a more peaceful Europe - but I don't like the idea of another superpower piling on the pressure to make us (the EU) decide what way to go.
Hell, this is the same country that re-elected Bush not once but twice!
Who are they to be dictating possible directions?

Fratton Fred

live2thewire wrote: »

agree totally op. problem is the EU lets USA dictate look at all the american base on european soil FFS

they were kind of handy for a while though. they did stop those pesky Russians from invading.

live2thewire wrote: »

i love eu but i hate sarkozy hes a hypocrit of highest order, see his move with the car industry a while back in direct opposition to the law..his face causes me annoyance too

France has flouted EU laws and directives many times and has never been penalised for it.

daveharnett wrote: »

WRT Obama's comments, settle down. Turkey is a major military ally of the US. This whole song and dance was to keep the Turks happy, nothing more. The US is well aware that it's opinion on how the EU conducts itself means jack s**t.

Edit: Italy kicks in quite a lot too apparently.

So does Sweden and the Netherlands apparantly. The UK receive the least from the EU (Or they did) because they don't have as much agriculture and the EU pays loads in the way of farm subsidies. That is why they were promised a big rebate if they kept contributing, which the French tried to block.

I see it the same as you though, it was just a sweatener for the Turks more than anything.

Overheal

marcsignal wrote: »

but if i remember correctly the Georgians started all that business, and imo, the Russians responded the same way the US would in similar circumstances.

Whatever the case, if there was a large constituent of Turks who wish to defect to Russia, like there was in Georgia (..right?) they might be less inclined to do so if they are integrated into the union.

Duck's hoop

marcsignal wrote: »

True, but Iraq is under US control, and even after US troops leave, the US will still have permanent bases there.

Think about that for a second.

cherryghost

that mans full of himself. who does he think he is? the president!!?

LaMer

live2thewire wrote: »

agree totally op. problem is the EU lets USA dictate look at all the american base on european soil FFS

Yes because of a mutually negotiated security treaty and alliance, those b*stards.

K-9

Acacia wrote: »

France didn't want us to join, if I remember correctly.

That was more the Brits and DeGaulle.

randylonghorn

Meh, the same conversation has happened before.

US has to be seen to support Turkey for strategic reasons, Obama knew perfectly well what the response would be, it'll come up again in another year or so when Turkey kicks enough diplomatic shins, that's international politics.

Most of it is posturing and prancing, the important stuff goes on behind closed doors.

Duck's hoop

randylonghorn wrote: »

Most of it is posturing and prancing, the important stuff goes on behind closed doors.

Arms deals etc.

Overheal

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Arms deals etc.

scissoring and snorting coke actually.

jiltloop

Biggins wrote: »

Hell, this is the same country that re-elected Bush not once but twice!

He was only re-elected once.

Biggins

jiltloop wrote: »

He was only re-elected once.

LOL Doh! :pac:

Quite Correct - BIG DOH!!!

Purple Gorilla

Psh..it'll never happen! I'd like to see Germany and France give up their places as the top 2 QMV countries!

K-9

From seeing the RTE news, many Turks don't like Obama either.

K-9

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Psh..it'll never happen! I'd like to see Germany and France give up their places as the top 2 QMV countries!

Why would they?

jiltloop

Biggins wrote: »

LOL Doh! :pac:

Quite Correct - BIG DOH!!!

Sorry could't help pointing it out.

Agent Smith

Acacia wrote: »

France didn't want us to join, if I remember correctly.

The main argument against Ireland Joining was that our trade was too linked to The United kingdom. And the french didnt want them.


anyway Sarkozy ftw.

His wife is far hotter.

Biggins

jiltloop wrote: »

Sorry could't help pointing it out.

...and quite right too!

marcsignal

True, but Iraq is under US control, and even after US troops leave, the US will still have permanent bases there.

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Think about that for a second.

I meant when the Iraqis take over, and the occupying forces leave:o

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

I get your point - but that still don't make it right nor does it mean we have to accept it quietly or take it on the chin either.

I'm for a more peaceful Europe - but I don't like the idea of another superpower piling on the pressure to make us (the EU) decide what way to go.
Hell, this is the same country that re-elected Bush not once but twice!
Who are they to be dictating possible directions?

I suppose you are consistent. Many people here didn't like the EU telling us what to do, though that really isn't what happened.

In this case people are getting all antsy about the EU, because the US is telling them what to do, though that really isn't what happened.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

they were kind of handy for a while though. they did stop those pesky Russians from invading.



France has flouted EU laws and directives many times and has never been penalised for it.



So does Sweden and the Netherlands apparantly. The UK receive the least from the EU (Or they did) because they don't have as much agriculture and the EU pays loads in the way of farm subsidies. That is why they were promised a big rebate if they kept contributing, which the French tried to block.

I see it the same as you though, it was just a sweatener for the Turks more than anything.

Does that count Maggies special little deal?

Agent Smith wrote: »

The main argument against Ireland Joining was that our trade was too linked to The United kingdom. And the french didnt want them.


anyway Sarkozy ftw.

His wife is far hotter.

I know, so much for Irish independence.

On more important matters, surely the Italian PM must have a hotter wife?

book smarts

One of Turkey's conditions for approving Rasmussen for the NATO job was that he apologise for the Danish cartoons, which he refused to do before.

Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest funders of Turkey's EU campaign. They're also pumping billions into building mega-mosques all over Europe and the Islamification of Europe in general.

Do you really want a Muslim majority country that is on the brink of losing it's secular government influencing the rest of the EU? The US would love to see a weaker Europe. They don't need us. Their military was all that protected us from Russia during the cold war, and still does arguably.

nitrogen

A secular Europe is fupped if they ever join. Europe has done pretty well to get religion out of public life in most countries, do we really want a large Muslim country joining that could bring us back to the dark ages...

Witcher

nitrogen wrote: »

A secular Europe is fupped if they ever join. Europe has done pretty well to get religion out of public life in most countries, do we really want a large Muslim country joining that could bring us back to the dark ages...

Turkey is a secular state:rolleyes:

Futhermore even if they weren't what does the fact that its a "large Muslim country" have to do with anything? If they were a "large Christian country" would the argument be the same?

K-9

Blay wrote: »

Turkey is a secular state:rolleyes:

Futhermore even if they weren't what does the fact that its a "large Muslim country" have to do with anything? If they were a "large Christian country" would the argument be the same?

Large Muslim is scarier.

Overheal

K-9 wrote: »

Large Muslim is scarier.

I disagree

book smarts

Blay wrote: »

Turkey is a secular state:rolleyes:

Futhermore even if they weren't what does the fact that its a "large Muslim country" have to do with anything? If they were a "large Christian country" would the argument be the same?

Only barely still secular, and in the future probably not. The present party in government is Islamic, and has caused a furore. They approved constitutional changes in parliament to ease the ban on the wearing of the Muslim headscarf in universities. The secular courts ruled against it though, as tens of thousands of secular protestors took to the streets.

Fundamentalist Islam is creeping into Turkey and ordinary secular Turks are rightly terrified. Do you really want Muslim laws in Europe? Sharia? Because that's the inevitable conclusion years down the line. Look at all those ****holes like Iran, Saudi, Syria etc. Do they live in tolerance beside Christians, Jews and other religions? Give me a fukcin break.

magick

Blay wrote: »

Turkey is a secular state:rolleyes:

Futhermore even if they weren't what does the fact that its a "large Muslim country" have to do with anything? If they were a "large Christian country" would the argument be the same?

yes, ask the Average American if they wanted a "large Muslim country" to join their Union

Cunny-Funt

Turkey also banned youtube as they couldnt stop people saying bad things about turkey on it.

I'd much rather Russia joining the EU over Turkey anyday of the week.

lol picture that now, russia joining the EU. Wonder what the US would think of that.

Nodin

book smarts wrote: »

Do you really want Muslim laws in Europe? Sharia? Because that's the inevitable conclusion years down the line. Look at all those ****holes like Iran, Saudi, Syria etc. Do they live in tolerance beside Christians, Jews and other religions? Give me a fukcin break.

O Noeszz!!!!! Teh Beardies iz commin!!!!!!!

"muslim laws in Europe" my arse. Thats the kind of shite they come out with on crank American talk shows.

How the hell would that happen, exactly? Hordes of Para-Imams dropping out of the sky? Storm-Muslims seizing EU buildings and glueing beards to the MEP's?

pablomakaveli

I know there are a lot of ultra-nationalists in Turkey which would mean Turkey could be difficult to deal with in the EU.

They share borders with Iran, Iraq,Syria which would mean we could see a large influx of immigrants from these countries who would find it easier to get to Western europe. And also make it easier for Islamic terrorists to get into Europe.

Just some of the many reasons why Turkey should'nt join the EU at least not for now anyway.

Nodin

There are a number of very good reasons why Turkey isn't ready to be in the EU, none of which have anything to do with religon. Human rights, the treatment of the Kurds, and the Armys tendency to consider itself the final decider on who governs the state for starters.

0ubliette

i think obama is a cool guy, eh tells other countries what to do and doesnt afraid of anything

asdasd

"muslim laws in Europe" my arse. Thats the kind of ****e they come out with on crank American talk shows.

How the hell would that happen, exactly? Hordes of Para-Imams dropping out of the sky? Storm-Muslims seizing EU buildings and glueing beards to the MEP's?

Or muslims becoming a majority in some European States due to natural demographic differences, and increased Islamic immigration because with Turkey in the EU "Europe" would border Syria,Armenia, Azerbaijan and Iraq. The Turks would have little reason to control these borders if the immigrants were bypassing Turkey for the West ( which would make economic sense).

Do keep up.

Lirange

He only said it to kiss up to Turkey. Neither America nor he really gives a fuck if Turkey joins the EU.

It was serviceable for the occasion. Maybe the Turks should be the one's upset, being patronised again. There's no REAL pressure on the EU from Obama to allow Turkey to join. They want access to Incirlik Air Base and good relations with Turkey for strategic purposes. The voiced support for Turkey's membership goes back to Clinton. But it's hollow. So the paranoid can unwind their knickers.

wes

I reckon the Turks should form there own EU like arrangment Eastwards if they aren't let into the EU.

Anyway, as long as Turkey meets the conditions, I see no reason why they shouldn't be let into the EU. Same goes for any other states that are looking to join.

asdasd

Let's have a Poll!!

Manic Moran

I like Obama but yeah he should shut it whenit comes to the EU, how would the USA like it if we kept telling them how to run NAFTA?

He's only expressing an opinion. Not as if he's saying "Let Turkey in Or Else!"

Besides, Europeans have never felt the need to restrain themselves from expressing their opinions on US issues like the American criminal justice system. Why not allow the American President the right to state an opinion? Or do you have an issue with free speech?

As a thought, given that the main concern that the US has with Turkey is strategic, which is the one thing which the EU has proven repeatedly to be absolutely useless at, he might even be right to think the EU needs Turkey.

NTM

dyl10

No, I've got an issue with manipulative, meddling comments.

wes

Manic Moran wrote: »

He's only expressing an opinion. Not as if he's saying "Let Turkey in Or Else!"

Besides, Europeans have never felt the need to restrain themselves from expressing their opinions on US issues like the American criminal justice system. Why not allow the American President the right to state an opinion? Or do you have an issue with free speech?

As a thought, given that the main concern that the US has with Turkey is strategic, which is the one thing which the EU has proven repeatedly to be absolutely useless at, he might even be right to think the EU needs Turkey.

NTM

I actually agree with you on this. As much as I disagree with a lot of what the US does. The comment by Obama isn't a big deal and I agree with a lot that he says in his speech.

As you point out yourself, we in Europe love to bitch and moan at the US.

Anyone on the Pro-Turkey side actually ever been to the place? They're nothing like Europeans and I don't think they would mesh well at all with other more Western-European cultures.