Liverpool - Chelsea...Round 9.....FIGHT!!!

Aidric

I would just like to congratulate Chelsea on tonights performance. They have all but killed the tie as a contest.

dannydiamond

Well what can I say,Chelsea were superb,controlled the game,and well deserved their win.
Drogba was awsome.
Terry played great.
Cech showed he's one of the worlds best 'keepers.
Essien,well....
And what were the odds on Darragh Maloney spouting "Ivanovic is on a hatrick"

Tbh I never thought Chelsea were capable of that performance,they've been saving it up all season,and in contrast our defence was poor to say the least.

I will never write off a Benitez Liverpool team in europe but jeez we're up against it now,we need an Attaturk proportion fightback.

I've long since given up watching champions league games on Sky,RTE ftw,what fantastic entertainment they provide with one notable exception of course.
I loved him as a footballer when I was a kid and what a great player he was, but as a pundit,what a fkin idiot Ronnie Whelan is.

Well played Chelsea.

LuckyLloyd

ImJohn wrote: »

The thing is we are conceding goals from set pieces in nearly all of our big games

Hmmm

Utd at home: nope
Chelsea away: nope
Arsenal away: nope
Chelsea at home: nope
Utd away: nope

---

CL group stages: one away at PSV?
CL second round: nope
CL QF: two

---

YOUR CASE IS ROCK SOLID SIR.

Villain

keane2097 wrote: »

But what's to say they'd be easier to defend against by man-marking? I'm sure Benitez is clever enough to know whether or not that's the case tbh...

Well if you go man for man you can pick who you want players to mark but with Zonal it's pot luck who marks who which is fine if you are playing most teams but against big teams who are strong in the air I would want my best players in the air marking their best players in the air.

All I'm saying is why does it have to be zonal or man marking surely it can be mixed up depending on the game?

citytillidie

Ahhh well need 3 goals next week and with no Terry might have a slim chance.

As for the Zonal marking tonight is the 1st time i can remember all season Liverpool conceding direct from a corner.

Guy:Incognito

mada999 wrote: »

looked off-side to me from the aerial view

Maybe you should have told the people at RTE, Sky, the players, match officials, the crowd and all of use watching at home. Cos we all missed that.

Headshot

citytillidie wrote: »

Ahhh well need 3 goals next week and with no Terry might have a slim chance.

As for the Zonal marking tonight is the 1st time i can remember all season Liverpool conceding direct from a corner.

nope not with Carvalho being his replacement

x in the city

Awesome from Chelski



kudos to them

Highsider

Zonal marking works...FACT. It just did'nt tonight:o

keane2097

Villain wrote: »

All I'm saying is why does it have to be zonal or man marking surely it can be mixed up depending on the game?

I'm sure it's entirely possible to mix it up. I'm just not sure whether doing so would have a positive impact, and I'm very much inclined to think Mr. Benitez would know either way.

x in the city

citytillidie wrote: »

Ahhh well need 3 goals next week and with no Terry might have a slim chance.

As for the Zonal marking tonight is the 1st time i can remember all season Liverpool conceding direct from a corner.

They let in Everton twice for corners also.

really crap marking from corners in fairness, zonal my ass, who invented this zonal word

Highsider

mada999 wrote: »

looked off-side to me from the aerial view

Please don't be silly.

mada999

Villain wrote: »

Ok I get Zonal marking works against many teams but surely if you are playing against a team that this especially strong in the air you adjust to defend against that team.

Why is it he can't alter it for some games? Its not as if the players won't be able to adapt to man marking for a one off game?

don't understand this....chelsea have prob 5 players that are taller and better in the air, even in you man mark them they could still score...

liverpool need to buy taller players imo

LuckyLloyd

Ok, I have placed a sticky at the top of the forum on setpiece marking. We'll see how it pans out over the next few months...:)

shotamoose

redout wrote: »

of Course there is something in it otherwise all 3 broadcasters wouldnt be barking on about it :rolleyes:

The broadcast analysts are the televisual equivalent of tabloids, they leap to the easiest conclusion every time and they've got the memory of goldfish. Liverpool's defensive record over the season doesn't suggest big problems with zonal marking, but tonight the players just ballwatched and got punished for it.

Headshot

mada999 wrote: »

don't understand this....chelsea have prob 5 players that are taller and better in the air, even in you man mark them they could still score...

liverpool need to buy taller players imo

peter crouch

citytillidie

Headshot wrote: »

nope not with Carvalho being his replacement

Yea who is returning from injury Neville is still trying to cope for United and hes had 2 games after injury

ImJohn

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmmm

Utd at home: nope
Chelsea away: nope
Arsenal away: nope
Chelsea at home: nope
Utd away: nope

---

CL group stages: one away at PSV?
CL second round: nope
CL QF: two

---

YOUR CASE IS ROCK SOLID SIR.

Everton home (cahill), 2 for Chelsea, Lescott for everton too. All big games we needed to win.

Villain

mada999 wrote: »

don't understand this....chelsea have prob 5 players that are taller and better in the air, even in you man mark them they could still score...

liverpool need to buy taller players imo

If you man mark you can run with player and attack the ball and complete on a level footing and tussle with the player rather than try compete from a static position.

Tim Cahill isn't the tallest

eddiehead

Headshot wrote: »

man is a legend

best DM in the world

FYP Essien you beast!

citytillidie

Villain wrote: »

If you man mark you can run with player and attack the ball and complete on a level footing and tussle with the player rathen than try compete from a static position.

Tim Cahill isn't the tallest

Yep but he is also very good in the air and has got lots of goals or set up goals for Everton at set peices while been man marked

mada999

Highsider wrote: »

Please don't be silly.

all i'm fookin sayin is the lad that crossed the ball for Drogba's goal was off-side..

Guy:Incognito

eddiehead wrote: »

FYP Essien you beast!

Ah the old "best player in the world" tag . He's not even in the top 5 goalkeepers on Chelse's books.

ShiverinEskimo

citytillidie wrote: »

Yea who is returning from injury Neville is still trying to cope for United and hes had 2 games after injury

Neville is 4 years older and had a full season on the sidelines with injury - oh, and is completely irrelevant to this tie...

mada999

Headshot wrote: »

peter crouch

ok - liverpool need to buy taller players who can head the ball and who do not perform the robot dance..

keane2097

citytillidie wrote: »

Yea who is returning from injury Neville is still trying to cope for United and hes had 2 games after injury

Luckily for Chelsea they don't have Neville playing CB for them then...

LuckyLloyd

ImJohn wrote: »

Everton home (cahill), 2 for Chelsea, Lescott for everton too. All big games we needed to win.

So in three of the many important games we've played this season? So "nearly all" then like you said. :rolleyes:

And maybe, just maybe, the fact that Arteta, Ballack, Lampard whip in great deliveries and Lescott, Cahill, Terry, Ivanovic are brilliant in the air might be our real problem. But that would be rubbish, right? :rolleyes:

mada999

Villain wrote: »

If you man mark you can run with player and attack the ball and complete on a level footing and tussle with the player rather than try compete from a static position.

Tim Cahill isn't the tallest

yeah but he's good in the air....

Villain

citytillidie wrote: »

Yep but he is also very good in the air and has got lots of goals or set up goals for Everton at set peices while been man marked

So you think Rafa was correct to use Zonal marking against Chelsea tonight?

Forget all the other games.

keane2097

ImJohn wrote: »

Everton home (cahill), 2 for Chelsea, Lescott for everton too. All big games we needed to win.

This argument would maybe have some validity if Tim Cahill never managed to score a header against any team who man mark him from corners.

Unfortunately...

mada999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So in three of the many important games we've played this season? So "nearly all" then like you said. :rolleyes:

And maybe, just maybe, the fact that Arteta, Ballack, Lampard whip in great deliveries and Lescott, Cahill, Terry, Ivanovic are brilliant in the air might be our real problem. But that would be rubbish, right? :rolleyes:

i'd agree that Arteta, ballack, lampard's corner deliveries > than liverpool's corner deliveries

Headshot

citytillidie wrote: »

Yea who is returning from injury Neville is still trying to cope for United and hes had 2 games after injury

your trying to compare nev injuries and Carvalho's

Nev has probly had more games yes
but nev is pass his sell by date for along time now
(edit) forgot to mention nev is a RB
Carvalho is still a beast

eddiehead

Stekelly wrote: »

Ah the old "best player in the world" tag . He's not even in the top 5 goalkeepers on Chelse's books.

Pfft, nonsense, the only reason he isn't recognised as Chelsea's best 'keeper is because he hasn't played there yet

Guy:Incognito

Theres a two word answer to the tall people are automatically great in the air myth. Peter Crouch.




EDIT. Dammit, just saw Headshot's post a min ago. Boo urns.

monkey9

First of all, just want to say that i haven't read this thread yet and won't now until tomorrow because i know full well the way it's gonna descend and i really couldn't handle it!!

Have to say, Chelsea were brilliant. Completely deserved to win and to be honest,they could have and probably should have won by more!

I have no idea what happened to Liverpool tonight. We got the goal early and i thought we would kick on from there and go through (over the two legs). But we just became so scrappy. We were awful!!

In saying that though, i don't want to take anything from Chelsea. They were absolutely brilliant and professional tonight. They realised they needed an away goal and once they conceded, that seemed to set them free.

We missed Mascherano so much tonight. I'm not gonna have a go at Lucas cos that's just too easy, but basically the game passed him by. He is not a defensive midfielder, he is better as an attacking one.

I'm not sure what anyone else thinks, but i kinda got the feeling that Rafa got a bit carried away with the league form. In a straight choice i would choose the league as it's a monkey off our back and we've already won the lChampions League. But tonight was so much like a Premier League match and normally, Rafa knows how to turn them into European ties. It suited Chelsea so much more that it was played in the Premier League tempo.

Anyway, i have no complaints. Well done Chelsea. They completely deserved it and so much more. They took they the game to us and we either didn't expect it or couldn't handle it or probably both.

Just one more thing. The RTE panel!!!! I know the idea of them is to annoy and provoke and not really to give good analysis. It's about entertainment and viewer figures. But i genuinely feel that they mean what they say about the zonal marking. Liverpool rarely concede from corners or free kicks, but when we do, they hop on it! They go on as if it's a problem for us. But when do they ever go about man marking whenever that system concedes a goal! They are so naive in their knowledge, their lack of research is a joke, they are the WWE of football analysis!

Anyway, I bid you's all goodnight!

K-9

And we conceded 2 in total, against Man U at Old Trafford, Real at home, Villa at home and Fulham away.

Giles, Dunphy and Whelan are old school players who hate it.

UTV and Sky just need something to talk about that sounds like they know what they are talking about.

Handsome Bob

I am at a loss for words. We got a head of ourselves and got too gun-ho, and Chelsea made us pay. When we went 1-0 up it was a time for calm heads, to sit back and counter Chelsea. Instead it was the other way round with us continuing to attack in numbers while Chelsea were happy to counter. I said to my brother at half time that we were in dire shape at the back and Chelsea were going to beat us if we continued to entertain an end-to-end game. And that's exactly what happened. Disaster.

And I have had just about enough of listening to Ray Haughton and Ronnie Whelan; two clowns who think they are brilliant pundits just bcause they are critical of the team they used to play for. That doesn't make you good pundits you muppets, calling the game as it is and straight down the middle does. I actually think they were delighted to see us lose.

citytillidie

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Neville is 4 years older and had a full season on the sidelines with injury - oh, and is completely irrelevant to this tie...

It was not a dig on Man Utd i was only commenting on another defender who has come back from injury recently, would you Man Utd fans get down off your high horses

citytillidie

Villain wrote: »

So you think Rafa was correct to use Zonal marking against Chelsea tonight?

Forget all the other games.

Well i would say go with what you know, but that does not always works.

Tusky

Villain wrote: »

So you think Rafa was correct to use Zonal marking against Chelsea tonight?

Forget all the other games.

GAH. I hate this narrow minded view of things. ZONAL MARKING had nothing to do with the goals conceded tonight. On the other hand, BAD DEFENDING has everything to do with them.

Zonal and man marking are two different systems, neither are better or more effective than the other. Dozens of goals are scored around the world each week against teams that use man marking. In that case, pundits blame the player, never man markings as a whole.

When a team concedes a goal using zonal marking, pundits blame the system. Why cant it just be the player performing badly within the system ?

Ive no problem with the pundits blurting out their ignorant opinions. What really annoys me is the effect they have on football fans who take their opinions to be fact. If Dunphy said it, it must be true.

rossie1977

Headshot wrote: »

nope not with Carvalho being his replacement

there is always a chance no matter how slim, of course it would take a shock of Foinavon proportions at this stage

if villa can score four against a terry less chelsea at the bridge (which included carvalho) http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7157291.stm

if spurs can score three against a terry less chelsea at the bridge (which included carvalho) http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/6415115.stm

it will take a miracle and i can't see it happening, i don't think any liverpool fans would want to face barca in the form they are in at present, leave it to chelsea to get whacked :P

el rabitos

zonal marking has nothing to do with players day-dreaming.

both goals we skrtle and gerrards fault respectively.

Villain

Tusky wrote: »

When a team concedes a goal using zonal marking, pundits blame the system. Why cant it just be the player performing badly within the system ?

I would bet my years wages that if all the teams that use man marking switched to Zonal Marking more goals would be conceeded from corners.

The problem is bad defending, but trying to compete with a player running and attacking the ball from a static position makes it a harder imo

ImJohn

So who is at blame for the goals conceded against us? Skrtel? Maybe he should of been closer to Ivanovich.

keane2097

citytillidie wrote: »

It was not a dig on Man Utd i was only commenting on another defender who has come back from injury recently, would you Man Utd fans get down off your high horses

People don't need to be on high horses to notice and point out bad comparisons tbh

citytillidie

rossie1977 wrote: »

there is always a chance no matter how slim, of course it would take a shock of Foinavon proportions at this stage

if villa can score four against a terry less chelsea at the bridge (which included carvalho) http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/7157291.stm

if spurs can score three against a terry less chelsea at the bridge (which included carvalho) http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/6415115.stm

it will take a miracle and i can't see it happening, i don't think any liverpool fans would want to face barca in the form they are in at present, leave it to chelsea to get whacked :P

Sure not turn up next week and just rest the team after the Blackburn for the Arsenal game, i think the loss tonight might just put a reminder to the team after the recent run of games that still a lot of work needs to be done

K-9

el rabitos wrote: »

zonal marking has nothing to do with players day-dreaming.

both goals we skrtle and gerrards fault respectively.

At last, sense.

Listen to this man, will yas!

JerryHandbag

I never saw that performance or result coming from Chelsea, totally outstanding performance. They'll be lying in the long grass for the Premiership title if they play like that from now on. JT will be a huge loss for return leg though.

astrofool

Zonal marking is exploitable, if you can switch zones, or over load a certain zone, Liverpool would of course train to combat those situations, they likely forgot about it tonight, but it was two free headers for ivanovic, it wasn't a case that he lost his marker and made space, no one picked him up at all, and he got two free headers and scored.

x in the city

Villain wrote: »

So you think Rafa was correct to use Zonal marking against Chelsea tonight?

Forget all the other games.

Lads stop using /zonal/ marking

who the fook invented this word. how hard is it to pick up players from set pieces

no 'zonal Scientology' required.

In any event, Barca will walk away with the CL, they are head and shoulders above anyone else in the world right now, Chelski played well tonight but they have no hope of beating Barca.