Liverpool - Chelsea...Round 9.....FIGHT!!!

rossie1977

el rabitos wrote: »

zonal marking has nothing to do with players day-dreaming.

both goals we skrtle and gerrards fault respectively.

alonso was a fault for the first goal, its not the first time either he has been day-dreaming on a corner which led to a goal in the last 2 years.

keane2097

x in the city wrote: »

Lads stop using /zonal/ marking

who the fook invented this word. how hard is it to pick up players from set pieces

no 'zonal Scientology' required.

You don't seem to understand what's going on at all tbh.

"picking up players" is called Man Marking. Marking space instead of opposition players is called Zonal Marking.

This seems to be eluding you...

growler

what a perfect blue day


got a bit of myself and booked a speculative flight to barcelona

happy days

ivanovic who'd have thought it

so fecking happy really expected us to lose that and even ballack looked kinda interested after 70 minutes

eddiehead

Did I hear correctly that only one team has progressed after losing the 1st leg? Who was that?

x in the city

keane2097 wrote: »

You don't seem to understand what's going on at all tbh.

"picking up players" is called Man Marking. Marking space instead of opposition players is called Zonal Marking.

This seems to be eluding you...

since when was 'zonal' marking used to describe defending [or non defending]

I don't think Alex Ferguson used 'zonal' marking during his decade of success at Man U up to now to win so much trophy's :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Its a fancy way of saying to pick up your markers or defend properly but whatever floats your boat

Sincerely,

Mr.Zonal

Villain

eddiehead wrote: »

Did I hear correctly that only one team has progressed after losing the 1st leg? Who was that?

Ajax in 1995/96, coming back from a 1-0 home defeat by Panathinaikos to win the away leg 3-0.

keane2097

x in the city wrote: »

since when was 'zonal' marking used to describe defending [or non defending]

I don't think Alex Ferguson used 'zonal' marking during his decade of success at Man U up to now to win so much trophy's :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Its a fancy way of saying to pick up your markers or defend properly but whatever floats your boat

Sincerely,

Mr.Zonal

Are you actually serious?

raven136

The better team won tonight,we were totally outclassed and outplayed bar a 6minute start to the game.

Chelsea had us nailed on from there and thoroughly deserved the win and possibly by more.Zonal or Man it doesnt matter if you defend like kids.

On the Zonal thing,while Rafa has used this have liverpool not equalled and set new defensive club records.
If done right it is very effective and anyway Liverpool use an almost Hyprid version of it where in tonights case Alonso should ahve marked his man and not let him run past.

Game over now and onwards towards a hopeful league push.

Terry out and Masch back will make a difference but not enough to win it.

K4t

growler wrote: »

ivanovic who'd have thought it

United were chasing him along with Chelsea. Class player. Kept Riera (who has been on form recently) quiet until he was taken off and the two headers (first one especially) were superb. And he's naturally a CD!

Barca ran riot against one of the worst defensive performances I've ever seen in the CL tonight. Chelsea will give them no such chances and your midfield tonight was like a machine. Keep Mikel out and get Ballack and Essien a few games and you'll beat Barca imo.

Edit: Raven's post reminded me. The difference between a Liverpool performance with and without Mascherano is phenomenal. He was sorely, sorely missed tonight. Lucas was more negative than Scholes and carrick last night!

redout

eddiehead wrote: »

Did I hear correctly that only one team has progressed after losing the 1st leg? Who was that?

No the lads had wrong info as:

(They were talking about deficit btw)

Deportivo came from 4-1 down against Milan to win 2nd leg 4-0 in the quarters in 2004

Barca came from 3-1 down against Chelsea in 2000 to win 2nd leg 5-1 in the quarters in 2000

Panthro

hes here,
hes there,
he scored two goals from cor-o-ners..
ivanovic...ivanovic...

rise it up chelsea!

keane2097

papagormo wrote: »

hes here,
hes there,
he scored two goals from cor-o-ners..
ivanovic...ivanovic...

rise it up chelsea!

Poor attempt imo

Frisbee

papagormo wrote: »

hes here,
hes there,
he scored two goals from cor-o-ners..
ivanovic...ivanovic...

rise it up chelsea!

That's embarrassing...

x in the city

keane2097 wrote: »

Are you actually serious?

why wouldn't i, pool were gash at set pieces, nothing new there. they conceded a fair few and chelsea obviously did their homework so fair play to them

pool should learn how to defend properly


errr and use the zonal technique of marking opposition players of course :rolleyes:

elshambo

papagormo wrote: »

hes here,
hes there,
he scored two goals from cor-o-ners..
ivanovic...ivanovic...

rise it up chelsea!

You should submit this and other pieces of your work to the RTE there
they would probably give you the prime monday night comedy slot:rolleyes:

Tusky

x in the city wrote: »

since when was 'zonal' marking used to describe defending [or non defending]

I don't think Alex Ferguson used 'zonal' marking during his decade of success at Man U up to now to win so much trophy's :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Its a fancy way of saying to pick up your markers or defend properly but whatever floats your boat

Sincerely,

Mr.Zonal

*chuckle* I don't think you understand what youre talking about. I mean that in all seriousness. Im not trying to insult you.

Headshot

raven136 wrote: »

The better team won tonight,we were totally outclassed and outplayed bar a 6minute start to the game.

Chelsea had us nailed on from there and thoroughly deserved the win and possibly by more.Zonal or Man it doesnt matter if you defend like kids.

On the Zonal thing,while Rafa has used this have liverpool not equalled and set new defensive club records.
If done right it is very effective and anyway Liverpool use an almost Hyprid version of it where in tonights case Alonso should ahve marked his man and not let him run past.

Game over now and onwards towards a hopeful league push.

Terry out and Masch back will make a difference but not enough to win it.

im not sure will masch be a benefit to liverpool in the next leg tbh
he is a DM after all

maybe im wrong?

Villain

redout wrote: »

No the lads had wrong info as:

(They were talking about deficit btw)

Deportivo came from 4-1 down against Milan to win 2nd leg 4-0 in the quarters in 2004

Barca came from 3-1 down against Chelsea in 2000 to win 2nd leg 5-1 in the quarters in 2000

Barca were away in first leg AFAIK, they said only one team lost first leg at HOME and went onto win which was Ajax in 1995/96, coming back from a 1-0 home defeat by Panathinaikos to win the away leg 3-0.

RichTea

Well that was unexpected.

Liverpool should be as good as out, but looking at recent Champions League results that is by no means a certainty.

raven136

Headshot wrote: »

im not sure will masch be a benefit to liverpool in the next leg tbh
he is a DM after all

maybe im wrong?

would be nice to have a liverpool player who might tackle.

Hey Essien might actually let the Liverpool centre midfielders play in the next game

SlickRic

a wonderful chelsea peformance first and foremost.

us pool fans can have no complaints really. apart from that kuyt chance we didn't have anything as gilt-edged as the numerous chances chelsea created.

essien and drogba make that team scary as f**k to be honest. stevie didn't have a kick, while carra and skrtel didn't have a clue how to handle didier.

if we were able to defend set-pieces tonight we could still have got out of this with an ok result.

masch was a HUGE miss, and would have made a big difference I reckon.

once the third went in, our play noticably deteriorated. and it all had started so well. a mate of mine put a bet on after the torres goal for Liverpool to win the Double

here's to at least giving it a right go in the 2nd leg.

eZe^

Unlucky Liverpool, the tie isn't over, but it will take something of Istanbul proportions to pull it off. Not impossible, but realistically I think Chelsea would be the easier tie if for Barca if they end up qualifying for the semis..

Panthro

hah!:D cheers frisbee.

i lay down the gauntlet, try putting ivanovic into a rhyme..
granted its no "who let the drogs out" or "steve gerrard gerrard" but its an attempt.

CHD

eZe^ wrote: »

Unlucky Liverpool, the tie isn't over, but it will take something of Istanbul proportions to pull it off. Not impossible, but realistically I think Chelsea would be the easier tie if for Barca if they end up qualifying for the semis..

LOL

Iang87

awful just awful is the only way to describe liverpool tonight, who knows if gerrard is let out of essiens pocket for the next game maybe just maybe we'll get the istanbul again. thats only maybe. either way chelsea fully deserved their victory tonight and fair play to them

Iang87

damn you keane2097 making me apologise, either way i apoogise for being ridiculous last night

eZe^

CHD wrote: »

LOL

There's no team in world football more capable at shutting down a possession and attacking based team than Liverpool.... I'd definitely be more afraid of facing Liverpool than Chelsea...

therecklessone

Can I just point out that while this thread has progressed pretty well so far, referencing any behaviour from last night in relation to other match threads will do it no good.

Stick to match discussion please.

eagle eye

This zonal vs man marking debate is so silly really.

Both types of defending will work nearly everytime if you have the right players to play the system.

There are some teams that one might not work against where the other will. Chelsea would be one of those teams where zonal seems less effective but the reason for that is the amount of players who are good in the air.

You can't train your team to do one, and then expect them to automatically be able to do the other when the occasion requires it. That zonal system will work against the other big four teams and most teams in Europe. Its rare that you meet a team with the arial prowess of Chelsea.

I do think that Hypia would have been a better player for Liverpool in Central defense but thats only because Anelka did not start. Benitez does not have this information when he picks his team so the point is irrelevant really. I'm quite sure also that if he was brought on, you would have seen Hiddink immediately counter with the introduction of Anelka.

whatawaster

CHD wrote: »

LOL

you may be getting a little carried away with tonights result. Liverpool have proved time and time again they are the best off the ball team in Europe. tonight hasn't changed that.

x in the city

Tusky wrote: »

*chuckle* I don't think you understand what youre talking about. I mean that in all seriousness. Im not trying to insult you.

when the fook did anyone use zonal marking in analysis.?

I think it arised from Liveprool, or Basketball or something.

or it might be a unique way to describe nondescript defending from elite sky 4 teams.

zonal marking >

http://www.imemc.org/attachments/mar2009/eu_img.jpg

Iang87

whatawaster wrote: »

you may be getting a little carried away with tonights result. Liverpool have proved time and time again they are the best off the ball team in Europe. tonight hasn't changed that.

being the best off the ball team counts for nothing when you lose 3 1 at home in the first leg of any competition

Headshot

whatawaster wrote: »

you may be getting a little carried away with tonights result. Liverpool have proved time and time again they are the best off the ball team in Europe. tonight hasn't changed that.

see whatawaster liverpools trump card is gone now (anfield) but its not impossible but I wont be putting money on it

liverpool will have to attack so I see chelsea getting some success from the counter attack

whatawaster

Iang87 wrote: »

being the best off the ball team counts for nothing when you lose 3 1 at home in the first leg of any competition

did i say it did? Chelsea beat us tonight. We've beaten Chelsea twice this season. Oh well

whatawaster

Headshot wrote: »

see whatawaster liverpools trump card is gone now (anfield) but its not impossible but I wont be putting money on it

liverpool will have to attack so I see chelsea getting some success from the counter attack

i wouldn't put a penny on it either to be honest. And unless we have a good first half i wouldn't be surprised to see Gerrard and Torres come off, with Arsenal at the weekend.

Iang87

whatawaster wrote: »

did i say it did? Chelsea beat us tonight. We've beaten Chelsea twice this season. Oh well

ok man didnt mean to come across like i was slagging you. just who knows what next tuesdays game. we were given 45 minutes to score 3 against milan. why not do it in 90 against chelsea minus terry.

whatawaster

Iang87 wrote: »

ok man didnt mean to come across like i was slagging you. just who knows what next tuesdays game. we were given 45 minutes to score 3 against milan. why not do it in 90 against chelsea minus terry.

let's just do it in 6 minutes again!

CHD

whatawaster wrote: »

you may be getting a little carried away with tonights result. Liverpool have proved time and time again they are the best off the ball team in Europe. tonight hasn't changed that.

Not carried away at all. I expect us to beat Liverpool over two legs and would expect us to advance to the Final if we do.

Iang87

whatawaster wrote: »

i wouldn't put a penny on it either to be honest. And unless we have a good first half i wouldn't be surprised to see Gerrard and Torres come off, with Arsenal at the weekend.

couldn't agree with that more. if rafa feels its beyond us he will take them off. we wont like it next tuesday but we might love it sunday week

Iang87

whatawaster wrote: »

let's just do it in 6 minutes again!

fine i wanted to avoid that to give chelsea a chance but ya i'd take that if it was offered to me

x in the city

zonal marking update!!

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/770/198752.JPG

Nalz

eZe^ wrote: »

Unlucky Liverpool, the tie isn't over, but it will take something of Istanbul proportions to pull it off. Not impossible, but realistically I think Chelsea would be the easier tie if for Barca if they end up qualifying for the semis..

LOL

Panthro

x in the city wrote: »

zonal marking update!!

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/770/198752.JPG

hah! contro!...sure that plan didnt work out so good either!

Unearthly

It feels so wrong

but I LOVED Chelsea winning tonight

keane2097

Unearthly wrote: »

It feels so wrong

but I LOVED Chelsea winning tonight

To be fair, they played some gorgeous stuff - it was hard not to enjoy it from a (somewhat at least) neutral point of view.

ScholesyIsGod

Essien makes a massive difference in the Chelsea midfield super player the tie is as good as dead.

tony1kenobi

eZe^ wrote: »

Unlucky Liverpool, the tie isn't over, but it will take something of Istanbul proportions to pull it off.

More chance of getting pulled off by the tramp on the ha'penny bridge.

Mr Alan

x in the city wrote: »

why wouldn't i, pool were gash at set pieces, nothing new there. they conceded a fair few and chelsea obviously did their homework so fair play to them

pool should learn how to defend properly


errr and use the zonal technique of marking opposition players of course :rolleyes:

x in the city wrote: »

Lads stop using /zonal/ marking

who the fook invented this word. how hard is it to pick up players from set pieces

no 'zonal Scientology' required.

x in the city wrote: »

since when was 'zonal' marking used to describe defending [or non defending]

I don't think Alex Ferguson used 'zonal' marking during his decade of success at Man U up to now to win so much trophy's :rolleyes::rolleyes:

oh god, your trend of embarrasing yourself continues

first off, SAF uses a mixture of zonal marking & man marking as far as i know. as do many of the top managers in world football.

secondly, liverpool as far as i'm aware, have conceded 3 goals all season directly from corners. the first was an Alonso og against Middlesborough, the second two came tonight.

Thirdly, Liverpools defense has been quite outstanding since the arrival of Benitez & the introduction of zonal marking at the club. Reina claiming the golden gloves (conceding the least amount in the league) the last 3 years is testament to this.

Finally, pool being "gash" at set pieces was something new-despite what you may like to claim.

What we saw tonight was simply zonal marking being carried out poorly, similarly to the way every weekend up & down the PL we see man marking being carried out poorly. it was not proof of zonal marking not working or it being an inferior style, despite wat the RTE embarrasments might like to make out.

now...

Chelsea were awesome tonight & were good value for their win.

We can win by 3 clear goals at Stamford Bridge, we are more than capable, see the recent Utd match as an example....or we can match the score line tonight & take it to extra time & penalties BUT both these are unlikely. Tonights result could prove to be a blessing in disguise, but it was still hard to take.

redout

Do you not think that after conceding the first goal this evening that Rafa could have changed tactics obviously knowing that if it happened once then it could happen again given the space Ivanovic had was shocking. I think Giles explained it well and showed that its a flawed system after the game in the analysis.

EDIT: One can bitch and argue and throw all the stats you want at it but Giles really did show that its a flawed system. Not only is a player confined to mark a certain space he is also at the disadvantage of not being able to attack the ball immediately putting one's self at a disadvantage to the attacker.

Mr Alan

redout wrote: »

Do you not think that after conceding the first goal this evening that Rafa could have changed tactics obviously knowing that if it happened once then it could happen again given the space Ivanovic had was shocking. I think Giles explained it well and showed that its a flawed system after the game in the analysis.

EDIT: One can bitch and argue and throw all the stats you want at it but Giles really did show that its a flawed system. Not only is a player confined to mark a certain space he is also at the disadvantage of not being able to attack the ball immediately putting one's self at a disadvantage to the attacker.

Do i not think Rafa should have changed to a totally different system mid match because we failed to do what we were meant to do right, in a champions league quarter final?

No redout, no i don't. I think Rafa should have stayed with the tried & tested system that has us about the tightest defence in England, particularly from set pieces.

Giles exposed himself tonight when he talked about how tactics didnt really have anything to do with football.....tbh, i'm starting to worry a little bit about the guys mental health.

They kept talking about how we concede so much from set pieces yet Rafa is too stubborn to change. Quite confusing when you take into account that we very very very very very rarely concede from set pieces & our goalie has won the golden gloves 3 years on the trot for conceding the least amount of goals in the league.