Interaction with Women

Das Kitty

This one has been on my mind for a while.

I'm the only girl in an a family of 4. My Dad is a pathetic male role model.

Throughout my life I've always found it easier to interact with boys / men. I feel I can comfortably talk to them without editing what I'm saying. They always take things in the spirit that I intend them. I can get along with pretty much any guy.

With girls however, I find myself very uncertain about what I'm saying. Am I upsetting them? Do they think I'm a donkey? How do they perceive me? I worry a lot about what female acquaintances and colleagues think of me. I want to be recognised as one of them, but in reality I feel like an outsider. I started in my current office over a year ago and I'm just about getting to the stage where I reckon the girls might actually like me. I know it's ridiculous, but I really can't read the signals. If they were guys I'd be thinking, "well if they don't like me, that's their problem!".

I have 4 close female friends, and they're all like me in the sense that you can witter on about anything and if you upset them, they'll tell you.

In very general terms, I find that women would rather wait and snipe behind your back than outright disagree with you to your face (something I've never been afraid of).

I'm in a situation in the office now where I asked twice to be let know when they're going for lunch (we all go to brekkie together, it's grand) and they still don't I end up going with my former colleagues or with a stray male that's around the office, and I'm too afraid to ask the third time! I'm imagining that they don't like me, when all the real indications are that they do and merely didn't take in the request.

Is it just me or do other women feel this way, feel slightly afraid to let your personality hang out with other chicks?

Xiney

Actually, I never had a problem getting along with women until I moved here. I don't know - the fact that I wasn't particularly knowledgeable about whatever the hell was in HEAT and all those types of magazines really worked against me in the office, I think.

With that said, and this is slightly horrifying for me to admit, I've been without true social interaction for so long at this point that I think I may have lost my personality. I'm not sure if that's possible but it seems to have occurred.

Fletch123

I'm kind of the same Das Kitty. I went to an all girls Secondary School which was possibly the bitchiest place in Ireland (we regularly had talks from the teachers to tone it down to no avail). As a result I am extremely paranoid with new female friendships. When I first went to college I couldn't believe that some girls genuinely wanted to be my friend rather than just use me or use me as a tool in rumour spreading.

In my last work place I found it very difficult to fit in with the other girls and was very reserved with my true feelings and opinions about things for fear of back lash...

pow wow

I'm pretty much the same, though I find I will interact with girls who I actually have something in common with. For example, idle chit chat when I'm at a wedding or whatever....don't really do that, but idle chit chat at a work conference....someone stop me.

I don't know if I would say I think girls are judging me or wouldn't find me interesting, I just find I usually have very little in common with them. I live with two screechy party girls and we have nothing to idly chit chat about :cool:

Das Kitty

Xiney wrote: »

With that said, and this is slightly horrifying for me to admit, I've been without true social interaction for so long at this point that I think I may have lost my personality. I'm not sure if that's possible but it seems to have occurred.

I definitely see no lack of personality with you for what it's worth!

Edit -

I just caught myself pausing over the submit button wondering if you would take that in the wrong way! I decided you wouldn't and hit submit. This is what I'm talking about!

liah

I'm the same way... I can't think of a single close female friend I've kept over the years. ALL my mates are male.

Girls are just too catty and gossipy, imo. Like it better this way.

Das Kitty

You see I don't think the problem is with the women necessarily but moreso with my perceptions and expectations, I know there are women out there who find it very easy and natural to interact with others of the same sex. I suppose when it comes to it I wish I had that.

Oryx

Oooh. Wow. I must be normal after all.

I grew up with brothers too. I work with men, and somehow, tend to socialise with em more too. I just find it more relaxed, its what Im used to. Conversation is always easier. I hug men no problem, but would never hug a female friend. I cant do female chit chat. I even bore myself when I try. Its weird.

I have girlfriends, but they are friendships that have developed over years with people who are similar to me. Ive lost contact with more girls I knew than I can count, simply because we had little in common. Male friends I tend to stay in touch with for donkeys years. I have a kind of male sense of humour which only my closest female friends 'get', cos they are the same.

Xiney

I think the thing was that in school and in University I tended to hang out with girls and guys who were, I suppose, a little less stereotypically girly. We would discuss politics, ethical issues, current events, cool gadgets etc. as well as the latest celebrity stuff.

Now, I KNOW, realistically, there must be women who are interested in the same things I am. I suppose I've just had bad luck and tend to end up surrounded by the "screechy" type of woman that someone previously mentioned in this thread. The type that, in the absence of drama in their lives will create some (possibly because they model their lives after eastenders? that would be my theory) and therefore "take things the wrong way" - instant drama!

If there is a woman in the office who does not "fit in" then all the easier to create drama that will not backfire.



Yeah. Catty.



I hate drama, although I can be quite blunt at times if I know the person can take it.

Xiney

Das Kitty wrote: »

I definitely see no lack of personality with you for what it's worth!

Edit -

I just caught myself pausing over the submit button wondering if you would take that in the wrong way! I decided you wouldn't and hit submit. This is what I'm talking about!

If a woman would have been insulted by someone saying she had "no lack of personality" then I personally wouldn't care if I offended her

Anyway, I don't mean lacking personality online. I seem to have developed social awkwardness in person though.

DancingDaisy

Most of my good friends, and definitely my longest friendships are with guy's. For the first time in my life I now have a very small group of female friends who I really click with, and surprisingly enough, I actually met them through my male friends.

I have avoided female friendships for a long time, mainly because, after attending an all girls secondary school, I couldn't deal with the drama, back-stabbing, and general cattiness. I tried to make friends in secondary school, but each time someone ended up starting a rumour about me etc. so I just gave up and stuck to the guys.

At least with the male species, the will generally tell you exactly what they are thinking, and you aren't left guessing.

jellie

i can understand how theres certain women youd avoid, weve all come across a few evil b*tches at some time or another..

but i dont understand how so many women seem to be so anti-female maybe thats not how its intended but thats how its coming across. not all girls are about drama and screeching and cattiness.

personally i use my own judgement on a person - theres some people ill instantly click with, some who seem nice but we dont have much to talk about, some who theres just that SOMETHING you cant put your finger on thats irritating/annoying/whatever, and some people i plain just dislike. however, thats just people.

most of my close friends are female, but thats more due to length of friendship rather than because they are female. i spend my day in work surrounded by men, i travel to work with male friends and for about 75% of my week im just surrounded by men.

i dont think interact with men much differently than i do with women (& if i do, its not intentionally)

Das Kitty

I agree with ya totally sar.

This thread wasn't meant to woman bash, I was really looking to see if anyone else finds it difficult to communicate with other women.

I accept that this is my problem and not theirs. In fact I've had good friendships with women with whom I started off on a shaky footing, so called "screechy girls". Just because you're a bit flighty has no bearing on how good a person or company you are, I just wish I could find it easier to talk to them.

The problem isn't that I have nothing in common with them either, I have a good bit, but I am quite insecure when making new female acquaintances, and I wouldn't view myself as an insecure person in the slightest.

I suppose any fallings out I've had have been with other womenfolk and as a person who hates confrontation and drama I shy away from potential issues like this.

A new girl started in the office 2 months ago, already she is going out for drinks with and texting the other girls in the office. I wish I could do that, they're fun girls.

Cathmandooo

My closest mates are women and I've been friends with some of them for most of my life, the others are around at least a decade anyway and I could count on my hand the number of fights any of us have had with each other over the years. We're not gossipey 'must know what's in this weeks Heat' kind of girls either. To be honest if you're seeing those type of girls in work then perhaps they're just trying to be friendly and avoid the boring 'isnt the weather lovely / too hot / too cold / too wet' etc. conversations. After all you're most likely seeing these girls all day every day, you're bound to run out of things to talk about or they don't want to talk about personal things in an office group.

I too get confused seeing (like Sar84 said) many women being 'anti-women', perhaps you're just not giving them a chance, perhaps you yourself aren't making the effort you could be with other women?

Don't get me wrong, I know women that I'd rather eat a dirty sock than spend any time talking to. I don't expect to get along with everyone but I don't expect to not get along with everyone either. I'd be sure it's my problem rather than a problem with all the women around me.

To the OP, perhaps you could get the ball rolling and suggest a lunch venue and time to meet yourself rather than relying on being invited somewhere? You might have asked the wrong people the two times you mentioned it. Some people aren't reliable to keep others informed. Maybe suggest it at breakfast on Thursday if you finish up for Easter then? If you're seen to organise it you'll most likely be invited along next time if they're decent.

Xiney

I tried to "get the ball rolling" and it didn't work out. It kind of made me feel worse. After a while you feel like you're Tai in Clueless.

shellyboo

Xiney wrote: »

I tried to "get the ball rolling" and it didn't work out. It kind of made me feel worse. After a while you feel like you're Tai in Clueless.

But she's so cute! And she turns out ok in the end

Seriously though, I get what you mean. It's no fun being the "outsider" in any group, much less a pet project. After a while you're kind of like "why am I making the effort with these people when they're not making an effort with me?"

I get on well with girls, but I am different in female company than I am in male company - in male company I'd say I'm more 'myself'. In female company, I kind of have to tone myself down a bit almost. That said, I do have close female friend who I can be fully myself with.

Das Kitty

Ah you see the only place around is the work canteen so we all go to the same place and there are only 5 of us, so I could be in the middle of a bit of work and look up and they'll all be gone, either to lunch or maybe off working elsewhere, all I asked for is a "we're heading out now kinda vibe". We've gone out on nights out etc and it all went well, I suppose I just want to know where I stand really.

It's not a huge problem anyway as I always have someone to go with. It's just the overall insecurity around wimminz that I don't get with men that I was wondering about.

Cathmandooo

Xiney wrote: »

I tried to "get the ball rolling" and it didn't work out. It kind of made me feel worse. After a while you feel like you're Tai in Clueless.

That's freaky, I had 'I'll be seein ya.....I hope not sporadically' in my head today

If it made you feel worse then that's an awful shame but at least you did make the effort

Nevyn

I gave up toning myself down for people on a regular bases, it was too much work and effort and I invariably ended up miserable.

I am not a stereotypical female, I have never been, will never be and I have always been on the outside or fringes of female groups. I tend to be honest upfront and a lot of my
interests have always seemed to be different then what ever the female trends were/are.

I gave up long ago with fitting in or needed to fit and and found I was happier and less frustrated if I just went for lunch by myself and brought a book, worked in school
and worked in damn near every work place I was in where there was not more lads then wimmin.

Oh and mother and toddler groups and the primary school coffee morning mammys are just as bad.

Das Kitty wrote: »

It's not a huge problem anyway as I always have someone to go with. It's just the overall insecurity around wimminz that I don't get with men that I was wondering about.

Cos having sat with them you know how they talk and gossip esp about the other people in the workplace and if you are not sitting with them then you know you are a target for their talk.

I've been there, done that, played the game and won at it, I am good that but I don't like the mental space I have to be in to see them as cogs and counters to play that game and again
it's too much effort and I don't like the bitchiness it brings out in me so I don't play that game.

jellie

Xiney wrote: »

I tried to "get the ball rolling" and it didn't work out. It kind of made me feel worse. After a while you feel like you're Tai in Clueless.

are they them horrible clique-ey kind of girls? i guess thats where guys are easier, they dont go in for that stuff..

how long have you been there?

Das Kitty wrote: »

Ah you see the only place around is the work canteen so we all go to the same place and there are only 5 of us, so I could be in the middle of a bit of work and look up and they'll all be gone, either to lunch or maybe off working elsewhere, all I asked for is a "we're heading out now kinda vibe". We've gone out on nights out etc and it all went well, I suppose I just want to know where I stand really.

It's not a huge problem anyway as I always have someone to go with. It's just the overall insecurity around wimminz that I don't get with men that I was wondering about.

possibly not the best solution, but how about suggestiing lunch sometime before they all go - "im heading for lunch, anyone else ready?". theres always the chance that they wont be.. but you do that a couple of times maybe theyll start to realise hey maybe she wants to eat lunch too!

if theyre still acting like b*tches then, then theyre just b*tches

LouOB

Am exactly on same page as Theadydal
I have tried to play game when I was younger to be nice to those type girls and suffered same consequences as you Xiney - feeling like outsider.I now take pride in being different.
Your whole life doesnt resolve around work. Meet up with diff friends for lunch. Bring in new magazines into work - they will be leaching off you in no time. Their interests arent so much as HEAT , as what gossip they have on other people or YOU.

A good saying I like (kinda goes like this)
People you talk about others have small minds
People who talk about events have average minds
People who talk about ideas are best of all

They just seem nasty really

IMO I only have girl friends as men as friends only want one thing - even if there isnt a chance. Thats the only reason they are hanging around with you. I dont trust men an inch regardless of sexual tendancy - in some cases they are worse than women.

With my friends, well with me you have to learn to speak your mind. If I think something is up I will ask. Something happing similar at moment with recent friend - she was starting to act strange i.e. quiet, weird looks etc. Are you ok? Am ok, response. This has gone on for over a month. So I have put her on long finger - but still no communication. You have to be wary - regardless of gender, people are WEIRD.

And repeat when necessary - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU

allabouteve

A thread with women bitching about women who bitch about other women.

I can't be the only one who sees the irony, am I?

DancingDaisy

I don't think it's bitching, I think it's more a case of saying that I find it difficult to get into a particular mindset, one that exists in both females and males in society. (That's my opinion anyhow)

Each to their own, and my own is spending time with people that I don't feel awkward or unwanted around. I'm sure that there are women out there who wouldn't want to spend time with me because they feel that I'm too quiet, have different interests, or that I'm just plain weird.

Nevyn

I am not bitching about them bitching I am saying I am who I am and it is bloodly marvelous to be able to meet other women who think like I do and are different like me
and that we can talk about how we are the one who eats lunch by ourselves and are
excluded by other's of our own gender because we do not conforum and don't give a damn.

Different is not lesser or bad it's just different, still it is nice to know I am not alone

allabouteve

Xiney wrote: »

I wasn't particularly knowledgeable about whatever the hell was in HEAT and all those types of magazines really worked against me in the office, I think.

Fletch123 wrote: »

...just use me or use me as a tool in rumour spreading.

meanie boots wrote: »

I live with two screechy party girls and we have nothing to idly chit chat about :cool:

liah wrote: »

Girls are just too catty and gossipy, imo. Like it better this way.

DancingDaisy wrote: »

I couldn't deal with the drama, back-stabbing, and general cattiness. .

sar84 wrote: »

i can understand how theres certain women youd avoid, weve all come across a few evil b*tches at some time or another..

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh and mother and toddler groups and the primary school coffee morning mammys are just as bad.

Cos having sat with them you know how they talk and gossip esp about the other people in the workplace and if you are not sitting with them then you know you are a target for their talk.

Now, let me be the first to say that the above comments are taken completely out of context. But they are hardly flattering comments.

There are a lot of derogatory comments directed towards other women in this thread, which I personally find uncomfortable to read.

And I don't think the disclaimer that its okay, because the poster is different from other women, excuses it.

Das Kitty

LouOB wrote: »

IMO I only have girl friends as men as friends only want one thing - even if there isnt a chance. Thats the only reason they are hanging around with you. I dont trust men an inch regardless of sexual tendancy

I can't agree with this, I have lots of male friends with whom I have great friendships with where sexuality never comes into it. I can honestly say that apart from my hubby, my next closest friend is a man, we have similar interests that our spouses don't share and it's good to have someone to talk about these things with and share a platonic passion regardless of gender.*

*what do you mean Eurovision is lame?!

Nevyn

allabouteve wrote: »

Now, let me be the first to say that the above comments are taken completely out of context. But they are hardly flattering comments.

They are our experiences.

allabouteve wrote: »

There are a lot of derogatory comments directed towards other women in this thread, which I personally find uncomfortable to read.

Any each of us has been made feel uncomfortable numerous times in our lives
by women who exclude us as we do not meet their standards of what is is to be female and feminine.

I will always meet people and be open to who they are and interact with them
based on how they are and treat me. Maybe I make them feel uncomfortable
and that is why the exclude me, just because it makes uncomfortable reading doesn't make it any less true.

allabouteve wrote: »

And I don't think the disclaimer that its okay, because the poster is different from other women, excuses it.

So you think that we as women should not talk about our experiences as women in a forum for that remit as our experiences of being different from the norm is not comfortable reading ?

allabouteve

Thaedydal wrote: »

They are our experiences.

Any each of us has been made feel uncomfortable numerous times in our lives
by women who exclude us as we do not meet their standards of what is is to be female and feminine.

I will always meet people and be open to who they are and interact with them
based on how they are and treat me. Maybe I make them feel uncomfortable
and that is why the exclude me, just because it makes uncomfortable reading doesn't make it any less true.



So you think that we as women should not talk about our experiences as women in a forum for that remit as our experiences of being different from the norm is not comfortable reading ?

I think its a pity you got me so completely wrong.

I think its also a pity that women cannot speak of their experiences with others, pleasant or otherwise without being as derogatory to those they speak of, as they are acused of being in the first place.

At no point did I suggest that it was inappropriate to speak of ones experiences with like minded people.

At no point did I suggest that this is an inappropriate forum for sharing those experiences.

I merely pointed out that the same type of language is being used to describe those experiences that made the posters unfairly comfortable in the first place.

You are entitled to share whatever you want.

And I am entitled to find it uncomfortable if I consider it, in my opinion, to verge on hypocrisy.

Nevyn

If you have an issue with any of the language used then please use the report post function.
Yes we do have to be careful not to use anti women language and other then the Bitch word
I don't see that here.

I don't see this thread as ganging up on women who are 'different' then those who are posting their experiences I do see it as those who have been excluded speaking out which is always a good thing.

Oryx

allabouteve wrote: »

A thread with women bitching about women who bitch about other women.

I can't be the only one who sees the irony, am I?

I wasnt bitching. Neither was the op, as far as I could see. She wanted to know if anyone else shared her experience.

Others can post what they like, thats what this is all about. The comments may not have been nice, but I bet they are honest.
My theory is that we tend to attack what threatens us, be it masculine women, or girlie girls. If you dont fit in, you feel weak and that brings out the worst in you. Perhaps thats whats demonstrated here, I dont know. Ironic? No. Human nature? Yeah.

Women can be catty, anyway. I include myself in that. But for me personally, I dont think its the reason I dont relate particularly well with the female gender (in spite of being a woman).

Xiney

We are not being hypocritical, in my opinion.

I think those of us who have experienced "cliquey" women will agree that we were excluded without them getting to know us, on the basis that we were outsiders.

Whereas we are complaining about their treatment of us - this is a valid reason to complain about someone, imo. We are not complaining about women in general, I would wager most of us have someone in mind when we make these comments.



However, I think exposure to exclusion leads women to be isolatory against other women. And I think this is the crux of what Das Kitty and others are experiencing - rather than be rejected, she would rather not put herself out there.