Earthquakes To Return To Europe

prinz

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Me: "Ok, I'll be around to pick you up at 8, when I'm outside I'll give you a sign"
Friend: "What sign?"
Me: "Oh I'm going to kill your dog, when I try to post its body through your letterbox you'll know I'm outside. Ok see you then"

:DThanks for the laugh:D

Not that I agree with the application of it though.

Goduznt Xzst

PDN wrote: »

You seem to be misunderstanding what 'prophesied' actually means. Jesus wasn't speaking magic words to make these things happen - he was saying that these are things that will occur at the end.

Yes but we are talking about an omnipotent being here.

I can see it now :pac:

Me: "Hey man sorry about the dog thing, come over to my gaff"
*friend walks in, opens door and a bucket of acid falls on his head*
Friend: "GAH!!! my EYES, why would you DO THAT!!!"
Me: "Oh I did nothing to you, I merely put the acid above the door and invited you to walk through it, and I did warn you, remember a few years back I said 'walking through doors can be dangerous', you clearly did not listen"
Friend: "But you set it up, you knew it was going to burn me, why didn't you just not put the bucket of acid above the door?"
Me: "Then how would my roommate Bob know when to get out of bed"
Friend: "WHAT???"
Bob: *yawn* "morning guys, hey thanks for giving me that sign when to get up, I didn't think you'd pull it off, but yeah someone screaming in torturous agony is a really good wake up call"

TwoShedsJackson

Like a ray of sunshine in the morning, Pamela111's insane ramblings can cheer one up no end. Even committed Christians would be embarrassed by you, Pamela.

lightening

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Even committed Christians would be embarrassed by you, Pamela.

I'd say Jesus would have ripped a nail out with his teeth to slap his head if he saw that post.

prinz

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Yes but we are talking about an omnipotent being here.

I can see it now :pac:

Me: "Hey man sorry about the dog thing, come over to my gaff"
*friend walks in, opens door and a bucket of acid falls on his head*
Friend: "GAH!!! my EYES, why would you DO THAT!!!"
Me: "Oh I did nothing to you, I merely put the acid above the door and invited you to walk through it, and I did warn you, remember a few years back I said 'walking through doors can be dangerous', you clearly did not listen"
Friend: "But you set it up, you knew it was going to burn me, why didn't you just not put the bucket of acid above the door?"
Me: "Then how would my roommate Bob know when to get out of bed"
Friend: "WHAT???"
Bob: *yawn* "morning guys, hey thanks for giving me that sign when to get up, I didn't think you'd pull it off, but yeah someone screaming in torturous agony is a really good wake up call"

At least we know this. Bob will be climbing in through the window from now on.:D

Ever thought of expanding these into feature length episodes? :pac:

I think PDN already explained the situation fairly simply.

PDN

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Yes but we are talking about an omnipotent being here.

No, Christians do not believe that Jesus was omnipotent or omniscient during His Incarnation (his time on earth in a human body). He grew in wisdom, confessed that He did not know certain things, and was subject to the limitations of a human body.

Tellox

PDN wrote: »

No, Christians do not believe that Jesus was omnipotent or omniscient during His Incarnation (his time on earth in a human body). He grew in wisdom, confessed that He did not know certain things, and was subject to the limitations of a human body.

I am also subject to the limitations of a human body, but have not yet predicted the events which will occur at the "end of times" as you call it. If Jesus was just an average human, how could he have superhuman powers of prediction?

And does this also mean that if I become absolutely convinced that the world will end when I drop and break my phone - and spread the message, am I the risen again Christ?

PDN

Tellox wrote: »

I am also subject to the limitations of a human body, but have not yet predicted the events which will occur at the "end of times" as you call it. If Jesus was just an average human, how could he have superhuman powers of prediction?

Nobody said He was just an average human.

We have no record of Jesus displaying any miraculous powers or knowledge until after His baptism when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him. He was the man perfectly filled with the Spirit. (Of course He was also God the Son - but as part of the Incarnation he voluntarily laid aside His omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience to enter the virgin's womb as an unborn child) The Bible records other people, in ordinary human bodies, who were able to prophesy by the power of the Holy Spirit (eg Elijah or Isaiah).

And does this also mean that if I become absolutely convinced that the world will end when I drop and break my phone - and spread the message, am I the risen again Christ?

And now I'm to exercise my superhuman powers of prediction. Troll with that kind of muppetry in this forum again and you'll disappear in a flash with a red card up your backside.

Furious_Daz

If the OP is correct then god is more likely the enemy of the human race and we should be developing technologies with which to defeat him! Weapons of mass destruction! (Pun intended...)

I'll let myself out...

Tellox

PDN wrote: »

Nobody said He was just an average human.

We have no record of Jesus displaying any miraculous powers or knowledge until after His baptism when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him. He was the man perfectly filled with the Spirit. (Of course He was also God the Son - but as part of the Incarnation he voluntarily laid aside His omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience to enter the virgin's womb as an unborn child) The Bible records other people, in ordinary human bodies, who were able to prophesy by the power of the Holy Spirit (eg Elijah or Isaiah).

I don't understand. He was born an average human, then through holy water became "above average" human, but was still held within the limitations of an average human? I would consider every human from the best scientific mind to olympic athletes, all the way down to the talentless and effortless on the dole to still be an average human. I would consider anyone who can demonstrate proof of psychic-like prediction, convert elements in changing water to wine, multiplying physical forms and elements such as fish/bread, and rising from the dead to be superhuman. I dont think many Christians would also agree that Jesus was simply an "above average" person.

And now I'm to exercise my superhuman powers of prediction. Troll with that kind of muppetry in this forum again and you'll disappear in a flash with a red card up your backside.

No trolling intended, albiet over the course of my life I'm quite used to getting the "SHUT UP AND GO AWAY" argument when discussing Christianity. If you wish, I can rephrase my original question to remove any element of humour;

If Jesus possessed no godly powers as you stated and neither do I, how are my predictions any different from his?

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

I would consider anyone who can demonstrate proof of psychic-like prediction, convert elements in changing water to wine, multiplying physical forms and elements such as fish/bread, and rising from the dead to be superhuman. I dont think many Christians would also agree that Jesus was simply an "above average" person.

He was filled with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit worked through Him, just as it has worked through many people down the ages right to today to a lesser degree. Jesus, imo didn't physically multiply the loaves and fish, He allowed His faith in God, and the power of the Holy Spirit to be used though Him here on Earth.

The very point of His coming on Earth was the fact that He was a human, like the rest of us. However He was able to overcome the inherent weaknesses and frailties that the rest of us struggle with daily, as a sign that when we accept God and allow the Holy Spirit to work within and through us we too can become better people.

Imo when Jesus asked 'Why have you foresaken me?' on the cross, He was acknowledging the fact that He was just as human as the rest of us in a moment of weakness, hoping that God or the Holy Spirit would intervene in His execution. Jesus did not act alone.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

He was filled with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit worked through Him, just as it has worked through many people down the ages right to today to a lesser degree. Jesus, imo didn't physically multiply the loaves and fish, He allowed His faith in God, and the power of the Holy Spirit to be used though Him here on Earth.

The very point of His coming on Earth was the fact that He was a human, like the rest of us. However He was able to overcome the inherent weaknesses and frailties that the rest of us struggle with daily, as a sign that when we accept God and allow the Holy Spirit to work within and through us we too can become better people.

This still doesn't make sense. An average human cannot allow his body to become possessed by one/two other earthly beings. If a man was seen flying over Dublin and later claimed that another being which is being channelled through his body is causing him to fly, he would be declared the superhuman - not whatever it was that's possessing him.

Im sure there's plenty of people here and throughout the world who have "accepted god and allowed the holy spirit to work within and through them", but I'm yet to see any of them perform the feats which are attributed to Christ.

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

This still doesn't make sense. An average human cannot allow his body to become possessed by one/two other earthly beings. If a man was seen flying over Dublin and later claimed that another being which is being channelled through his body is causing him to fly, he would be declared the superhuman - not whatever it was that's possessing him.

Many perceived super-human acts have been documented and witnessed. It doesn't make the person superhuman.

Tellox wrote: »

Im sure there's plenty of people here and throughout the world who have "accepted god and allowed the holy spirit to work within and through them", but I'm yet to see any of them perform the feats which are attributed to Christ.

The problem is is that Jesus was sent here for that specific purpose. Nobody else was.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

Many perceived super-human acts have been documented and witnessed. It doesn't make the person superhuman.

What? Name one with factual (non documented religious scripture) evidence to back it up.

And in my opinion, performing a superhuman act does indeed make you a superhuman. Just like going to work makes you a worker.

The problem is is that Jesus was sent here for that specific purpose. Nobody else was.

That's a bit opinionated too - how can you prove I wasn't sent here for the specific purpose of telling you all how to live and die?

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

What? Name one with factual (non documented religious scripture) evidence to back it up.

I will look into that later on.However there have been many instances, particularly in times of stress, danger, etc. Many stories of soldiers performing feats of strength which they should not have been capable of during a battle for example.

Tellox wrote: »

That's a bit opinionated too - how can you prove I wasn't sent here for the specific purpose of telling you all how to live and die?

It's not opinion it's faith.There's a difference.

For example I have no faith in your opinion of yourself.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

I will look into that later on.However there have been many instances, particularly in times of stress, danger, etc. Many stories of soldiers performing feats of strength which they should not have been capable of during a battle for example.

Adrenaline is not voodoo. I look forward to seeing actual examples.

It's not opinion it's faith.There's a difference.

No there is not. I can have faith in the fact that when I tell women I have an Enzo at home, one will appear when I arrive there - unfortunately, it's only when proven wrong that I can dub it opinion. Faith is simply the pre-product of opinion.

For example I have no faith in your opinion of yourself.

By your measure of faith, you're saying you don't believe in how I view myself? So you disregard someone's opinion on themselves based on your faith? Do go on.

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

Adrenaline is not voodoo. I look forward to seeing actual examples.

If you're waiting for your flying man example...keep waiting.Would you call voluntarily sacrificing your own life for a perfect stranger a human trait?

Tellox wrote: »

No there is not. I can have faith in the fact that when I tell women I have an Enzo at home, one will appear when I arrive there - unfortunately, it's only when proven wrong that I can dub it opinion. Faith is simply the pre-product of opinion.

You cannot have faith in your own imagination.That's called being delusional not faithful.

Tellox wrote: »

By your measure of faith, you're saying you don't believe in how I view myself? So you disregard someone's opinion on themselves based on your faith? Do go on.

By your measure of opinion, you're saying you don't believe I can have faith in something other than myself. You have been patently disregarding other posters faith based on your opinions so continue. I haven't disregarded anything everyone is free to any opinion they choose, anyhow my low level of regard is not due to my faith, it's due to my intelligence.

Unfortunately, my regard for your opinions has just dropped again, it's hard to take someone referring to an 'Enzo' seriously imo

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

If you're waiting for your flying man example...keep waiting.Would you call voluntarily sacrificing your own life for a perfect stranger a human trait?

It's normal to wait for earthquakes to signify the end of times, and for a man to be possessed by spirits who can channel godlike powers through him - but not a flying man? Personally, I wouldn't hold any faith in either - but each to their own on that matter, I was simply drawing conclusions based on what you've been telling me.

You cannot have faith in your own imagination.That's called being delusional not faithful.

I disagree. You have faith based on someone elses imagination - this is no more delusional than one person thinking it against millions of people thinking it.

By your measure of opinion, you're saying you don't believe I can have faith in something other than myself. You have been patently disregarding other posters faith based on your opinions so continue. I haven't disregarded anything everyone is free to any opinion they choose, anyhow my low level of regard is not due to my faith, it's due to my intelligence.

That's a bit hypocritical, isn't it? What you're doing right now is disregarding my opinions for your own, and I'll admit freely to doing the exact same to you. And intelligence is not directly proportional to your regard for anything. Your opinions however, are. Which is all this whole thing is - a mess of scattered opinions. I at least can sit back and state that while I do believe in some form of higher power, nobody on this earth can tell me who or what it is.

Unfortunately, my regard for your opinions has just dropped again, it's hard to take someone referring to an 'Enzo' seriously imo

..Your opinion on someone drops because they mention a car name?

AtomicHorror

prinz wrote: »

You cannot have faith in your own imagination.That's called being delusional not faithful.

And how do you determine the difference between the two?

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

It's normal to wait for earthquakes to signify the end of times, and for a man to be possessed by spirits who can channel godlike powers through him - but not a flying man? Personally, I wouldn't hold any faith in either - but each to their own on that matter, I was simply drawing conclusions based on what you've been telling me.

You were looking for evidence. Sorry but I don't know any flying men. I do however know of people doing super-human things. Apologies they don't wear their undies on the outside.

Tellox wrote: »

I disagree. You have faith based on someone elses imagination - this is no more delusional than one person thinking it against millions of people thinking it.

Having faith in someone else yes. Having 'faith' in what you know to be false imagination is delusional, not having faith.

Tellox wrote: »

That's a bit hypocritical, isn't it? What you're doing right now is disregarding my opinions for your own, and I'll admit freely to doing the exact same to you. And intelligence is not directly proportional to your regard for anything. Your opinions however, are. Which is all this whole thing is - a mess of scattered opinions. I at least can sit back and state that while I do believe in some form of higher power, nobody on this earth can tell me who or what it is.

Nobody was trying to.Everyone is entitled to their opinions. They are also entitled to disregard the opinions of others...

Tellox wrote: »

..Your opinion on someone drops because they mention a car name?

Not my opinion, my regard.As a matter of interest do you call a Ford a 'Henry'?

Malari

prinz wrote: »

Not my opinion, my regard.As a matter of interest do you call a Ford a 'Henry'?

LOL! An Enzo IS a car model!

And everyone knows Henry is a vacuum cleaner!

prinz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And how do you determine the difference between the two?

Having faith in someone or something other than yourself is possible.If my mate tells me he did something, I can have faith in him that he is true to his word and he did it. If I tell myself I have done something, when I haven't, I cannot have faith in that.....

Believing your house has turned to gold while you were at work..... you cannot have faith in that.That's imagination -- trying to have faith in that is actually having delusions, that what you believe is reality.If you catch me.

prinz

Malari wrote: »

LOL! An Enzo IS a car model!

And everyone knows Henry is a vacuum cleaner!

Great contribution.You're awesome. I am well aware of the Ferrari Enzo ta.

AtomicHorror

prinz wrote: »

Having faith in someone or something other than yourself is possible.If my mate tells me he did something, I can have faith in him that he is true to his word and he did it. If I tell myself I have done something, when I haven't, I cannot have faith in that.....

Believing your house has turned to gold while you were at work..... you cannot have faith in that.That's imagination -- trying to have faith in that is actually having delusions, that what you believe is reality.If you catch me.

I do, but I'm more concerned with how you tell the difference between faith in God and imagination.

prinz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I do, but I'm more concerned with how you tell the difference between faith in God and imagination.

I haven't had any burning bush moments, miracles á la Jesus, conversations with God. What I do have is faith that others have, and that they've shared the truth with me, not for any obvious gain. That people have willingly died horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining/fabricating things.

Malari

prinz wrote: »

Great contribution.You're awesome. I am well aware of the Ferrari Enzo ta.

Well, clearly you weren't aware. But you did provide me with a laugh. I know I'm awsome, I'm glad you have faith in me.

By the way, why do you think the fact that people die horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining things has to do with faith, rather than mental illness?

prinz

Malari wrote: »

Well, clearly you weren't aware. But you did provide me with a laugh. I know I'm awsome, I'm glad you have faith in me.

By the way, why do you think the fact that people die horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining things has to do with faith, rather than mental illness?

Factually I was, however this is not the first time I've come across someone referring to an Enzo, not to the model but as a generic 'cool' name to reference all Ferraris. Which is just a pointless exercise.

As for the rest I won't even bother.

Malari

prinz wrote: »

As for the rest I won't even bother.

So you can't tell the difference between faith and imagination? The "obvious gain" of which you speak is that they believe it themselves, but doesn't explain why anyone else would, just because they say so.

Tellox

prinz wrote: »

You were looking for evidence. Sorry but I don't know any flying men. I do however know of people doing super-human things. Apologies they don't wear their undies on the outside.

Stop dodging the question and make with the facts.

Having faith in someone else yes. Having 'faith' in what you know to be false imagination is delusional, not having faith.

That very sentance is hypocritical of itself, and makes little to no sense.

Nobody was trying to.Everyone is entitled to their opinions. They are also entitled to disregard the opinions of others...

Weren't you just blathering on about respecting everyone's opinions only a few posts back?

Not my opinion, my regard.As a matter of interest do you call a Ford a 'Henry'?

I'm glad google solved your car/vacuum dilemma in the end.

This is the reason I never argue with you people. You seem to try to annoy people into submission, without never actually answering any questions. You're like politicians but without the money or power.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

I haven't had any burning bush moments, miracles á la Jesus, conversations with God. What I do have is faith that others have, and that they've shared the truth with me, not for any obvious gain. That people have willingly died horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining/fabricating things.

I'm surprised at the amount of "people have died for the truth" posts as if they were proof of anything at all, what about the woman who thought god was talking to her and shot her son and herself - she died for her truth...

/sigh

Helix

Pamela111 wrote: »

Sadly, as a result of the movement towards heresy and abondment of the simple rules agreed between Abraham and God, of which we are decendants the cup of Wrath will be spread more widespread.

Rome and Italy, the home of the greatest Saints and of the Roman Catholic Church was hit just recently.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090406/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_earthquake

Already to mark the "end of times" we have had the Tsunami which killed 350,000 in one of the most sinful parts of the world. Europe and the USA must now receive the correction whilst Asia nations must see an increase also. Earthquakes will come to all of Europe, not just Italy but France and Spain also. The USA must also be brought to its knees.

Its a pity it has come to this but this is the way it must go.

The protection for humans is the Holy Rosary

is your surname phelps by any chance?

bloody hell

PDN

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm surprised at the amount of "people have died for the truth" posts as if they were proof of anything at all, what about the woman who thought god was talking to her and shot her son and herself - she died for her truth...

Er, maybe you should actually read the posts, and the responses to them, in order to understand the point being made.

The point is that a large amount of eye-witnesses that are prepared to die rather than deny what they have seen is an indication, but certainly not proof, that something actually happened.

As I see it you are faced with the following choices:
1. The whole lot of them were barking mad. Nuts enough to die for the sake of something that never happened. Obviously some mass outbreak like mad cow disease or something.
2. They were all liars - and apparently such confirmed liars that they wouldn't retract their stories to save their lives, and therefore died for the sake of something they knew to be false.
3. They were all fooled by Jesus who, rather than being nice and holy, was really a manipulative control-freak capable of pulling better magic tricks than Penn & Teller.
4. They actually witnessed the Resurrection.

Now, you may not find that very convincing, but a lot of people, including some eminent historians, have done so.

prinz

Tellox wrote: »

Stop dodging the question and make with the facts.

I haven't dodged the question.However if superman is what you're looking for I don't have any evidence. If you're interested in people performing feats which under normal circumstances they wouldn't be able to do, or acting in a manner that transcends human norms then yes.

Tellox wrote: »

That very sentance is hypocritical of itself, and makes little to no sense.

It is not hypocritical and it does make sense.So

Tellox wrote: »

Weren't you just blathering on about respecting everyone's opinions only a few posts back?

Do you know the difference between respecting someone's right to an opinion and holding it in regard as an intelligent opinion?

Tellox wrote: »

I'm glad google solved your car/vacuum dilemma in the end.

Once again .Go away, grow up, form a proper opinion and come back.

Tellox wrote: »

This is the reason I never argue with you people. You seem to try to annoy people into submission, without never actually answering any questions. You're like politicians but without the money or power.

Thanks, now I have no further reason to reply to any tripe you care to post. You come to a Christian forum as usual and I'm 'annoying' you into submission. Tbh I have no reason to answer anything for you.

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm surprised at the amount of "people have died for the truth" posts as if they were proof of anything at all, what about the woman who thought god was talking to her and shot her son and herself - she died for her truth...

/sigh

She also had a long history of mental institutions. Doesn't make any difference who she thought was talking to her. It could have been a box of cornflakes, the result would be the same. If you read up on the facts you'd see that what she said and did had nothing to do with God.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

She also had a long history of mental institutions. Doesn't make any difference who she thought was talking to her. It could have been a box of cornflakes, the result would be the same. If you read up on the facts you'd see that what she said and did had nothing to do with God.

Yeah, because you don't like the outcome...
I suppose I could be terribly cliche and bring up the Isaac story

@ PDN, I did indeed read them, I'll settle for a little of column a, b, c And throw in a little self-convincing based on hope, as well.

AtomicHorror

prinz wrote: »

I haven't had any burning bush moments, miracles á la Jesus, conversations with God. What I do have is faith that others have, and that they've shared the truth with me, not for any obvious gain. That people have willingly died horrible deaths rather than admit they were imagining/fabricating things.

Yeah, but people have done all of those things for Gods that are nothing like yours.

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah, because you don't like the outcome...

Ehm. No because she was mentally unwell. She also referred to herself and her family as King, Queen and Prince. Do you also blame the institution of monarchy for the fact she shot her son and killed herself?

prinz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Yeah, but people have done all of those things for Gods that are nothing like yours.

So? I'm not questioning anyone else's faith.I have no idea what that has to do with anything.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

Ehm. No because she was mentally unwell. She also referred to herself and her family as King, Queen and Prince. Do you also blame the institution of monarchy for the fact she shot her son and killed herself?

no, my original point was killing oneself/dying for one's beliefs isn't always what it's cracked up to be

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

no, my original point was killing oneself/dying for one's beliefs isn't always what it's cracked up to be

She didn't, so your point doesn't stand up.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

She didn't, so your point doesn't stand up.

eh?
"She said she planned her son’s slaughter to save the world from violence after she heard God telling her: “You have a gun. You can do it.”
She thought she was the Anti-Christ and had to die and go to hell so there could be 1,000 years peace.

She said on the tape: “I have to die and go to hell so there can be a thousand years peace on earth."

anyway that's getting off my original point

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

eh?
"She said she planned her son’s slaughter to save the world from violence after she heard God telling her: “You have a gun. You can do it.”
She thought she was the Anti-Christ and had to die and go to hell so there could be 1,000 years peace.

She said on the tape: “I have to die and go to hell so there can be a thousand years peace on earth."

anyway that's getting off my original point

She was seriously mentally ill.She died because she was sick and delusional. NOT for her Christian beliefs.

The Mad Hatter

prinz wrote: »

She was seriously mentally ill.She died because she was sick and delusional. NOT for her Christian beliefs.

*double thumbs-up*

prinz

prinz wrote: »

She was seriously mentally ill.She died because she was sick and delusional. NOT for her Christian beliefs.

er, I didn't say anything about christian beliefs.
Do you understand anything about what I'm trying to say here

Though now that you say it...

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

er, I didn't say anything about christian beliefs.
Do you understand anything about what I'm trying to say here

Though now that you say it...

Well you brought her into it as an example of someone dying for their beliefs, and as an excuse for God-bashing basically. Neither of which stood up.

Being willing to die for your beliefs can be admirable trait. Be it a belief in democracy, belief in human rights, belief in God, belief in freedoms basically. However in relation to this thread God does not tell or advise anyone to die or kill for Him. However my point was I really cannot see thousands and thousands of people facing the choice of renouncing their beliefs or death, choosing death, if it were not for the depth of faith they must have had.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

Well you brought her into it as an example of someone dying for their beliefs, and as an excuse for God-bashing basically. Neither of which stood up.

God bashing? Excuse me? Want to point out where I did that?


Yes, I brought her into it as an example of someone dying for the beliefs because of the emphasis I have seen put on this of late to further back up that their[the people who died] claims were reliable. I pointed out an example of someone dying for their beliefs whom people would not consider reliable. end of.

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

God bashing? Excuse me? Want to point out where I did that?


Yes, I brought her into it as an example of someone dying for the beliefs because of the emphasis I have seen put on this of late to further back up that their[the people who died] claims were reliable. I pointed out an example of someone dying for their beliefs whom people would not consider reliable. end of.

Try not to act so affronted.

You brought her into it as an attempt, feeble and misplaced as it was, to cast doubt on other people who were executed rather than deny their beliefs. There's not one Christian martyr I know of who killed others and themselves because God told them to do so.

Again your example is false.She didn't die for her beliefs, she died because of her delusions.There's a difference.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

Try not to act so affronted.

You back up your accusations, and it's a deal

You brought her into it as an attempt, feeble and misplaced as it was, to cast doubt on other people who were executed rather than deny their beliefs. There's not one Christian martyr I know of who killed others and themselves because God told them to do so.

Again your example is false.She didn't die for her beliefs, she died because of her delusions.There's a difference.

How is an example "false"?
Did you read my post where: "no, my original point was killing oneself/dying for one's beliefs isn't always what it's cracked up to be" perchance?
Try not to act so defensive?

Terodil

prinz wrote: »

There's not one Christian martyr I know of who killed others and themselves because God told them to do so.

Then you must have slept through your history lessons at school. The crusaders are pretty much just that.

prinz wrote: »

Again your example is false.She didn't die for her beliefs, she died because of her delusions.There's a difference.

That's your opinion, which many people will definitely not share. Belief, as opposed to knowledge, is usually highly delusional.

prinz

bluewolf wrote: »

You back up your accusations, and it's a deal

Read your post.It was a thinly veiled attempt to lay the actions of this woman at God's feet.

bluewolf wrote: »

How is an example "false"?
Did you read my post where: "no, my original point was killing oneself/dying for one's beliefs isn't always what it's cracked up to be" perchance?
Try not to act so defensive?

When it doesn't apply whatsoever. This woman did NOT die for her beliefs. She was mentally ill and delusional. I honestly don't know if I could sacrifice myself for my beliefs, I know I couldn't allow someone else be killed for my beliefs. I'd need to be put in the position where it is a choice of death or giving up my beliefs. I'd hope I wouldn't give up God to save my own skin. That said there are other things I would fight and possibly die for.